Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post25 Feb 2015

Pink Panther wrote:Is it more useful to theorise about the centre of the earth based on the best available evidence, or to ignore the best available evidence because it contradicts what you want to be true?

No-one said ignore them. But History (particularly, recent,) has proven many a great scientists wrong. You know that too. You have said yourself about how one should be ready to accept changes. So maybe Time is telling us to not take the words of others literally, instead to listen to our own true inner-self.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post25 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:You have provided too many evidences for me to have the need to quote them but, basically, I understand you saying that by your own experience, you believe that not every BK is a Brahmin. I also believe that you believe that not every Brahmin needs to be a BK.

No, I never said that.

And please, for the last time, cut the "by your own experience" crap.

I am simply referring to the BK Knowledge as it is written down and the inner or pukka teachings ... not the soft whitewash they spout so as not to offend and frighten off half-BKs, or BK supporter/contact souls.

I, personally, don't believe in it but - like it or not - I'll tell you what it is and what the likes of Janki Kirpalani teaches (or taught) to committed/surrendered BKs.

Every BK is called a Brahmin in the Confluence Age ... they would even say I was mere because I took the 7 Day Course! ... but not every BK will go the Golden Age according to The Knowledge. You must know this ... 900,000 to start, 330 million at the end of 2,500 years, only 8 pass with honours and become Emperors. You'd probably be in the last 30 million according to them.

Have you sex? If so, you're going to be a cremator.

The BK version of the word "Brahmin" most certainly *is* an entirely new definition ... a BK Brahmin is the mouth born progeny of Lekhraj Kirpalani (God Brahma). They teach theirs is the original version and Hindus copied them ... those it's clearly the other way around.

Those others you mention are just Vyasa or Shudra Bhagat souls according to the BKWSU. Please don't mix things up and confuse them. An Bhagat is a kind of discriminatory term in the BKWSU.

So ... how often and for how long have you ever gone to Morning Class? ... you never answered.

Thank you.
awakening wrote:History (particularly, recent,) has proven many a great scientists wrong.

If I take one step towards Rome and it does not take me all the way ... was that step "wrong"?

Your assured notions have already been proven diametrically opposite to truth and fact.

The remarkable thing about science is how right it is.

I can do some mathematics and fire 2 tonnes of metal into space, and have it land where I predicted 4,631,778,000 km away 6 years later ... The "pure" and "divine" BKs cannot even tell you the accurate date of birth of their founder, or explain why "God" cannot predict the world's population accurate to the nearest 2.5 billion.

BTW, how will the BKs get that 2 tonnes of metal back and place it underground so that it is repeated identically in 5,000 years time? Surely if they don't, the mass of the Earth will shrink 2 tonnes each Kalpa Cycle?

awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post25 Feb 2015

ex-I wrote:BTW, how will the BKs get that 2 tonnes of metal back and place it underground so that it is repeated identically in 5,000 years time? Surely if they don't, the mass of the Earth will shrink 2 tonnes each Kalpa Cycle?

:p What was that??! I have to agree you had some real "insider" learnings, as you have been emphasizing.

However, when you present views such as the following, they seem to contradict with the above:
I, personally, don't believe in it but - like it or not - I'll tell you what it is and what the likes of Janki Kirpalani teaches (or taught) to committed/surrendered BKs.

... but not every BK will go the Golden Age according to The Knowledge. You must know this ... 900,000 to start, 330 million at the end of 2,500 years, only 8 pass with honours and become Emperors. You'd probably be in the last 30 million according to them.

Because I am saying that these are the same things I have learned. Now I know that for some mysterious reason you like to disagree, but I have learnt the same things which are "written down", as you like to say, ie, those which are publicly available. I believe that the ones who know me best (my real inner self) are as follows, in this order: God, myself, my parents, others in my family, etc, etc. Therefore, I feel it is futile for you to disagree on what I know about myself. Just like it would be futile for me if I was to disagree with what you know about yourself.

I have gone through more than a few sources of info, including ones in this website's library and on the official sites. I have failed to find anything, which is apparently "written down" by the officials, that contradict with the logic, reasoning and other (little) knowledge that I possess. I try to learn as much as I can about theology and spiritualism as science and technology.

And I fail to understand what made you say this, as I did not find anything contradictory :
Those others you mention are just Vyasa or Shudra Bhagat souls according to the BKWSU. Please don't mix things up and confuse them.

I appreciate your optimism:
The remarkable thing about science is how right it is.

No-one said science is all wrong. Why would someone say that?!

I was taking about more than a few great scientists, such as Darwin, Eisenstein and Tesla. Of course, they all gave science precious gems too, many of which are scientifically proven. Just so that you don't build any unnecessary assumptions, let me clarify that I respect and appreciate all great human beings, scientists or not, who have played their part beautifully.

About the following:
If I take one step towards Rome and it does not take me all the way ... was that step "wrong"?

It really depends on whether the step you thought you took towards Rome was in fact a step towards Rome. Obviously, this will be clear only once you reach Rome.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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Pink Panther

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

Pink Panther wrote:The interesting thing about God being perfectly omniscient/knowledgeful for the BKs is that, although it is the raison d’etre for Shiva’s existence (in BK theory) i.e. his very purpose, that Trikaldarshi omniscience is the slipperiest part of any ‘relationship” a BK has with their Baba. It’s rarely the reason educated BKs love being BKs.

It’s usually more a matter of the ‘feelgood high" experienced in their self- affirmation meditations.

All I am trying to do here is get Awakening to think clearly about what it is he believes and doesn’t believe.

To which Awakening replied
Awakening wrote:To the love, add euphoric exhilaration!

Exactly. The emotional response creates cognitive dissonance, an ability to distort and apply different kinds of reasoning to get the outcome one wants, like an addict does. And as long as one gets that emotional response of euphoria, one will centre their whole lives around where they get it - one definition of addiction.

Science, for example, does not profess perfect and complete knowledge, and has many times through its history, as Awakening points out, changed its position as new evidence emerged.

Cognitively dissonant, emotion/ego driven reasoning does not allow Awakening to apply that same measure to the "God” he believes is ”perfect” but of whom history has also revealed has markedly changed his position, but at every stage has claimed it as ultimate, complete, perfect knowledge.

BKs are very Christian towards their God, for he knows not what he does.

BKs forgive God for his perfect ignorance and his perfect errors that have led so many people to change their life direction and do what they would otherwise not have done - if they had received perfect knowledge and the perfect truth about past present & future from a perfect trikaldarhsi Gyan ki Sakar Bhagwan.

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

Trick of brahmakumaris to convince reader, "they will win in this debate" by writing "Satyamev Jayate" in every post.

awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

aham brahmashmi: Unfortunately, it seems to me that you have failed to understand the meaning of the clause "Satyamev Jayate", even in the literal sense. Hence, I feel you should know:

"Satyamev Jayate" is literally translated as "Truth alone triumphs".

Now, if you take even a little peek, the subject in the clause is not any human being at all, let alone me or you. :shock:

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

One last time Awakening, when I present BK Knowledge as it is, e.g. their interpretation of spiritual castes according to the ages, I am not present "a view".

I am very careful to present it as is, not as it is presented to outsiders in a diluted, whitewashed form ... and not adding assumptions. I know precisely what it is, and what is not it, but I don't believe in it at all.

How can you insult aham brahmashmi in that way? He clearly does knows what "truth will prevail" means. Do the BKs adopt truth if it does not emanate from them? They cannot even truthful publish Lekhraj Kirpalani's date of birth or publish their own true history. BKism opposes truth, or rather attempts to relabel falsehood as truth by ... like aham brahmashmi points out ... constant repetition.

Their path is not a path of understanding ... it is a path of brainless acceptance based on constant repetition.

And I'll say it again, it would help me greatly to understand the level you are at, if you were just to tell me how often or for how long you practised Amrit Vela and went to Morning Class? Why would you refuse to do so?
awakening wrote:I believe that the ones who know me best (my real inner self) are as follows, in this order: God ...

God, or the god spirit of the Brahma Kumaris?

If you ask people here, you'll find out that BapDada - whoever or whatever it might be - does not even remember individuals he meets one season to the next. He has to be told by the Sister sitting next to him, who is who.
No-one said science is all wrong. Why would someone say that?!

You used a typical BK yukti, based on the lack of understand of science (knowledge) within the BKWSU, the logic of which goes something like, "at one point in history scientific understanding was proven to be incomplete (wrong) ... therefore all science is dubious ... therefore our Baba might just be right ... so suspend your disbelief and accept him as the perfect and Unlimited Ocean of Knowledge and his Gyan as the Truth!".

Now, obviously you are not as stupid and uneducated as the inner circle of the Brahma Kumaris so as to accept that so complete as they do ... so I offered you an anomaly to explain.

The BKs' Baba says space and time repeat identically every 5,000 years a the end of which Destruction happens and it all begins again. Every 5,000 years more than 5,500 tonnes of metals are sent out into space. Therefore every 5,000 years the Earth must either reduce by that amount or magically it all be return during the next 20 odd years back under the ground so that it can be dug up - identically - in 5,000 years time.

This is just one fairly simple and logical example that exposes and destroy BK space time theory ... and its originator. The other obvious example would how light from stars more than 5,000 light years away reverses, or the old favour, "how do the BKs take the flag off the moon so it is not there when the astronauts arrive again in 5,000 years?".
It really depends on whether the step you thought you took towards Rome was in fact a step towards Rome. Obviously, this will be clear only once you reach Rome.

Ah, you've obviously never heard of the saying ... "all roads lead to Rome".

The one example Westernised BKs love to jump on most is carbon dating, using known anomalies to "disprove" the authority of science and "prove" the authority of the Baba's Knowledge.

What's interesting about their concept of spiritual rewards and spiritual caste is that the greatest rewards according to them - a high status in the Golden Age - is given to those who do not question their ignorance and just accept what they say as being the truth.

There is actually no reward either in the Confluence Age or alleged future, for further their understanding - which requires questioning and challenging their authority and scientific method - nor even discovering a more accurate account of their history. Questioning and challenging is likely to find you sidelined or outcast as a BK.

Accept the brainwash, indulge and advertise the euphoria is about as far as they go. And what is their response when the euphoria wears off and you start to question again ... "do more Yoga (self-hypnotic brainwash) to feel the euphoria again!"

One thing you will find if you read back in my posts is that I do accept that for some BK hypnosis and brainwash *does* induce euphoric feelings. It really does ... at least for a while. It did for me ... for a while. It can be very strong, like a drug, and it can be just as addictive and destructive.

What the BKs have never done though is prove or explain their "Knowledge". All they do is push their 'drug' ... and this is a criticism of them that goes right back to the very earliest days. That is, that they have no real learning nor engaged in any real study; just that they spent all their time trying to devise new ways to encult new individuals ... to develop their marketing and PR.

It struck me, from your comments and the manner in which you present them, that you were not clear between what 'The Knowledge' was and what is just their marketing and PR. That much of what you were saying was not according to 'The Knowledge'.

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

I know how much brahmakumaris tell truth to other ... like "Dadi Janki most stable mind in the world".

I do not know this from this forum but I have heard this from my cousin Sister who left her house and join the Brahma Kumaris center at just 23 years old. Brahmakumris says they are not sanyasis, then why they should not allow girls to live their home for take care of their parents?
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

That's example of the BKs' adherence to the truth ... or trying to make something false true by repeating it 10,000 times.

They have claimed for decades, all over the world, that "Dadi Janki is most stable mind in the world".

It was always false. A journalist caught them out. It turned out that the university department they referred to did not exist; and the University itself, had never said such a thing. No scientist had ever said it.

The London BKs put out an official notice saying they should stop using it in their advertising ... and yet the Indian BKs kept on repeating it, and kept on lying and boasting about it.

Lies and boasts are "truth" to the BKs ... and why does their god not do anything to stop it? Is God not Truth?

Their god ... at best the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani ... has been doing so since the 1930s.

The parents of one of the very first and leading Western BKs said an interesting thing once. They said, "the only thing the Brahma Kumaris taught our son, was to lie". And there is a great truth in that. I know that because the very top BKs taught me to do so the same.

The BK teach their followers to become boastful super-liars ... to improve their ability to lie. And many level of lying ... from false representation in public to the highest authorities, to manipulation of others like Aham's cousin - who is being manipulated by the same half-truths and lies we were decades ago, and is now being taught to tell exaggerated half-truths and lies to others.

That is the path of BKism, full stop. Even their "religiosity" is just a facade to con people into handing over their wealth and properties to them.

And that is why I am a bit strict with you Awakening when you start to puff up a cloud of half-truths about what BKism is and is not.

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

Brahmakumaris consider method of making food when they refuse to eat food make by non-brahmakumaris.

But they do not consider method of earning money when then accept money from non-brahmakumaris.

aham brahmashmi

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

Brahmakumaris's method of convincing is very interesting .brahmakumaris use double slit experiment for their theory.but they forget Schrödinger's cat.

On this site, "by watching this practical video, we can see that everything depends on the observer who is “measuring” what appears to be “reality.” Then brahmababa should alive because no one in brahmakumaris wantaed death of brahmababa.

http://avyakt7.com/2013/08/23/question- ... s-beliefs/
http://avyakt7.com/category/scientific-tales/

awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

ex-I wrote:How can you insult aham brahmashmi in that way? He clearly does knows what "truth will prevail" means.

There was nothing that I wrote to reflect any degree of insult to anyone. I wish to emphasize that I have respect for all types of beings.

aham brahmashmi:

Sure, there are various experiments, some like the more practical double-slit experiment, and the more abstract Schrödinger's cat experiment. As you must know, these are experiments to basically highlight, and in many cases, simultaneously contradict or raise questions about, the various concepts and interpretations of QM, such as the Copenhagen interpretation and the Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. And then there are some more!

Surely then, you should agree that all distinct theories cannot be absolutely accurate.

That was my point of sharing my understanding of the clause. That is is not really a person's triumph or an organisation's triumph or a nation's triumph. It is truth's triumph. You and me are merely playing our parts as per the eternal drama, of which an important lesson is summarized by the clause. I understand that we may have different views on this as well.
ex-I wrote:The other obvious example would how light from stars more than 5,000 light years away reverses...

Did you know that scientists are still debating on the velocity of light? Science is unclear if light has a constant speed no matter what, or if it has variable speeds depending on variable factors.
Ah, you've obviously never heard of the saying ... "all roads lead to Rome".

If your point is to prove that I am imperfect, let me relieve you and congratulate you, as you have succeeded!
I do accept that for some BK hypnosis and brainwash *does* induce euphoric feelings. It really does ... at least for a while. It did for me ... for a while. It can be very strong...

I am afraid I cannot say the same for myself. Like I said, I attend physical classes irregularly, so maybe I missed that. [The only time I have ever felt hypnotized, maybe for about 15 mins., was by P.C. Sarkar Jr., when he looked me in the eyes while shaking my hands, as part of welcoming volunteers from the audience up the stage for a show.] Even long after taking the Gyan and doing several advanced courses, I still did not have those experiences. Although I did have a few experiences even before I discovered the BKWSU, they were nothing like those that I just started having recently. I feel my real journey has just only begun.

I am a bird on the journey to become free. Hope to see you again, soon.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!

clearofBK

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post26 Feb 2015

PP wrote:Exactly. The emotional response creates cognitive dissonance, an ability to distort and apply different kinds of reasoning to get the outcome one wants, like an addict does. And as long as one gets that emotional response of euphoria, one will centre their whole lives around where they get it - one definition of addiction.

Science, for example, does not profess perfect and complete knowledge, and has many times through its history, as Awakening points out, changed its position as new evidence emerged.

Cognitively dissonant, emotion/ego driven reasoning does not allow Awakening to apply that same measure to the "God” he believes is ”perfect” but of whom history has also revealed has markedly changed his position, but at every stage has claimed it as ultimate, complete, perfect knowledge.

I am sorry but PP this can be your personal experience or opinion but surely you can not be judgemental on people's experience. Every human being goes through multitudes of experiences in life and given the exact same situation, it's not necessary two will have the same experience. Every one has a unique experience depending on their level of ego/understanding/devotion/concentration ... etc.

Many times when we opine about others, we are really reflecting our ego (read how we would want others to behave) when passing judgements. You may just be meaning that you consider your past meditation experience as "cognitive dissonance" in the above ...

In a normal person's life too there are various moments of such exhilaration or euphoria like when in love. It's not cognitive dissonance though ... or is it?
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post27 Feb 2015

awakening wrote:Like I said, I attend physical classes irregularly ...

You keep avoiding the question with an evasive or half-truth answer (ditto your response to light going backward in space).

The question was regarding Amrit Vela and 'Morning Class'. "Physical classes" could mean anything; evening, weekend, general public events etc. So, let's try once again ...
    how often do and how often have you ever attended Amrit Vela and 'Morning Class'?
Please clarify and allow the discussion to progress. Please don't make me have to ask it again and again.

aham brahmashmi

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post27 Feb 2015

Brahmakumaris attack others belief system, they hack others belief system and use them for their Luxurious Life.
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