Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Awakening wrote:
I believe that if a view causes degradation of values and life in general, it should be discarded as soon as that realization takes place.

Ha !!! and then you go to hell of terrible grief, guilt, loneliness and sadness in your life. And we BKs will show pity on you that he/she was the weak brick and deserve the serious punishment.

Awakening is not aware what type of hell the leavers have to face and overcome. That too without any support. It’s no way different from the underworld mafia who gives the terrible consequences to the leavers and makes their life hell. The only difference is, they do it deliberately. Here it happens on its own. It’s like the situation of a person drowning and struggling to get out of water and want some pure oxygen just to survive. Moreover no one understands and help it.

The stupidity of belief badly damage life. Which i am sure is not at all Godly.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Since I believe that everyone (including me, obviously), is imperfect (except only God)...


On this basis, that your God is perfect, logic surely must ring alarm bells to tell you that the BKs’ ”god” is not God because ‘he' is far from perfect, wouldn’t you agree?
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Broken link there, because.p. Do you have another link to it?

I'll be interested to see awakening's response to pink panther's question above but I have to reject all this talk about "opinions" and attempts to kick the discussion down to merely being a matter of subjective views.

"Opinions" are worthless. They don't even need to be based on reality. I am only interested in facts from which we can predict likely probabilities.

Of course, the problem for relative newcomers to the religion and non-committed outsiders like awakening, is that throughout their history the BKs have become masters of reinvention, revising and whitewashing their god spirit past, then brainwashing followers to the point where individuals like them can come along believing that what they parrot is 100% true ... even accusing those of us with a longer, deeper insight of being false!

I have to reject the idea that one "opinion", based on known falsehoods and exaggerated claims, is in anyway equal to the facts and cannot allow them to be portrayed merely as another "opinion". That just is not so.

Awakening, is your mother a 100% pukka, Maryadas following Brahma Kumari?
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Dear Souls,

Thank you for sharing your views.

Apparently, we have come to the point where we have exchanged our views with each other, have attempted to understand them, and have decided to stick to our views. I do not feel that further discussion is going to do any good.

I am aware that I have left some personal questions unanswered. I do not believe that things such as my nationality or my mom's devotion has anything to do with my own beliefs.

I have not come across a human being who had not felt being deceived, including me. Such is the condition of the world today. We may not be able to change the past. But what we do at the present moment is what really matters, per my understanding.

Hence, I wish the best to all.

Thank you once again.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

I am sorry, but what a joke ... you just cannot bring yourself to admit you just might be wrong about a single thing, can you?

You phrase it as all just equal ... "views" or "opinions". I am sorry, but no.

The reason I asked about your mother was because I wondered if natural love/attachment/loyalty/defensiveness for his mum, was becoming confused and mixed up with your feelings about the BKs ... especially if you got her into them. I wonder too if BKism had also caused splits or divisions in your family?

Of course, if you are relatively well off for an India - and your mom is *also* not a pukka BK - then I am concerned that she (and you) are in that second division of individuals the BKs keep "fed" with a slightly censored, watered down version of BKism, fed to them in a preferential manner, e.g. telephone "morning classes", one on one or small group day classes.

That is what the BKs do.

Perhaps that is why you might not know or 'get' what BKism is really about?

The fact you've been given the 7 Days Course twice, and don't do Amrit Vela & morning class, suggests they think you don't quite 'get' it either.

Here's the truth from a 'BK point of view' (not mine) ... from a strict BK point of view.

Having done the course, they will believe you will take some rebirths in heaven, but not making efforts, and not surrendering after 15 years, you are only a half-BK. A "subject soul".

They will consider that you are a Silver Aged soul at best ... that you'll miss out on the Golden Age and only take rebirth at the end of the Silver Age. 60 births instead of 84 and no births in a royal family.

Your views are not BK. You're still deluded by impure Bhakti and your own manmat (opinions), not their Baba's Shrimat.

At best you're a subject in one of their kingdoms. That's how they see you, a subject or worshipper of theirs. Your views unacceptable, which is why you're not teacher material even now.

In the Murlis, Baba calls your type "stone intellect", not a diamond; and beyond that, he calls you type "donkeys", as in, not a deity-type, not a human being, but one level below that (donkeys don't do what their told to and need to be beaten to get them to move - yes, it's in the Murlis).

In short, you're still body-conscious. The "needle" of your intellect is dirty & rusty and does not feel Baba's magnetic pull.

In the near future, you will suffer terribly at Dharmraj with regret at the time you wasted because you had the opportunity to surrender and make effort ... but did not.

You perfectly reasonable views about other religious individuals are Bhakti and plain wrong from a BK point of view.

Whether you want to surrender, or not, you need to dig deeper and understand BKism better.

And in the meanwhile, for God's sake, don't give them any more of your money; nor allow your mom too.
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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Gee Awakening, I asked a simple question for clarification and you pull out?

God can be whatever anyone believes God is.

You stated that you think God is perfect. Here on this site, and even on sites run by BKs, are catalogues of errors made by the BK god, or harm caused by the BK god’s teachings, mainly to those who followed the teachings because they believed it was God.

How do you define God? How does the BK god compare to that definition?
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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

Maybe awakening has gone as far as he can intellectually and spiritually go right now....in Psychology, there is a belief that, people do what they do due to a "Percieved" payoff....and there is no reality, only one's own"perceptions"...
People have all variety of conscious and sub conscious motives for entering into discussions here. Some maybe more challenged than what is 'spiritually comfortable' for them, and don't want to take off the 'rose colored glasses' all at once.....as their sense of 'truth and their perception of reality' is crumbled beneath them.

But it's really a great and liberating thing to let your self experience. It's a shock at 1st, but...hey...your still standing. The earth did not open up and swallow you, the sky did not fall down.....just a big chance to see the ego's attachment to it's own beliefs and promises, (dellusions). It's a true Freedom to be smashed and then delivered. the Deliverance of that which was always there...the deliverence of your Self.
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post19 Feb 2015

ex-I, Pink Panther:

I am sorry, but what a joke ... you just cannot bring yourself to admit you just might be wrong about a single thing, can you?


Gee Awakening, I asked a simple question for clarification and you pull out?

God can be whatever anyone believes God is.


I feel unfortunate for us to still struggle with this. Believe me, I have tried my best to make these points clear by being both elaborate and redundant. However, for reference, I am quoting a few:

Since I believe that everyone (including me, obviously), is imperfect (expect only God), anyone's opinion could be incorrect (or partially incorrect). Thus, any of the possibilities can turn out to be reality, as otherwise that possibility would not have any considerable believers or have survived for any considerable period.


And I am OK with this. I agree to disagree. Does it mean that I don't care what you think? Before you make any other assumption about me, I wish to let you know that one of my central beliefs is that one day, everyone, including me, will know the truth. When that happens, all opinions will cease to exist (as there will be no need for them), and will thus cease to matter. I also understand that I may be one among those who discover in the end that I did not have the right/accurate view. That is why I am constantly researching, observing, learning and evaluating myself. I believe that others who do these, do them for the same reason too.


I am fine with "anyone's God" being "right".


I believe that if a view (clarification: any view, including one similar to the one I have) causes degradation of values and life in general, it should be discarded as soon as that realization takes place.


I gather that the following quote concerning "my God" and "your God" is your opinion, by all means, and may or may not be shared by others. My opinion, which again may or may not be shared by others, is that there is only one God. I like to see a little beyond the literal words in the Tibetan saying, which I thought we agree with:

On this basis, that your God is perfect, logic surely must ring alarm bells to tell you that the BKs’ ”god” is not God because ‘he' is far from perfect, wouldn’t you agree?


As for the following,

You phrase it as all just equal ... "views" or "opinions". I am sorry, but no.


I would like to further clarify that I understand there are facts that do not need opinions. So many of them. From things like human beings generally have two eyes, two ears, two hands, etc.; to knowledge about so many components in Science, such as known elements and their properties, molecular structures of compounds, physical laws, etc.
Why are these facts and don't need opinions? Because these can be verified and thus concluded to be true by anyone at anytime, provided the required resources are available or the required conditions are met.
So things that do not have such proof are, in my humble opinion, opinions.

I also understand that you may or may not agree with me. You certainly have the right to you own opinion.

And thank you quantum, for your acknowledgement and further clarification with reference to the above:

...in Psychology, there is a belief that, people do what they do due to a "Percieved" payoff....and there is no reality, only one's own"perceptions"...


Obviously then, the following are your perceptions:

Maybe awakening has gone as far as he can intellectually and spiritually go right now...


People have all variety of conscious and sub conscious motives for entering into discussions here. Some maybe more challenged than what is 'spiritually comfortable' for them, and don't want to take off the 'rose colored glasses' all at once.....as their sense of 'truth and their perception of reality' is crumbled beneath them.


While the above may or may not be facts, I wish to let it be known that they do not cause any concern to me.

ex-I, you are absolutely right:

...tolerant of other beliefs...


But for the following:

..."many paths to God"...


I have already attempted to clarify that while I don't believe that there exists "one and only one" path, there do exist few paths. It is to be observed that these paths share a lot in common and are very similar to one another if you see beyond the superficial and obviously observable, and you pay attention to only the path, not worrying about how a preacher is practicing the path. This is what I believe, of course.

Perhaps that is why you might not know or 'get' what BKism is really about?


I wish to clarify that I understand that any person who quits a spiritual org., does so because of some reason great enough to cause the person to leave the org. I have not had such a reason yet in the case of this org. Thanks for the concern and warning, though.

Allow me to give you an example. Most of us have heard of or know people who had felt deceived or had some other significant experience with various different cults, spiritual orgs. and religions, causing them to leave. While the incident with the person is significant and unfortunate, the org. itself may or may not be the cause. However, when it is found that the org. is the cause of such incidents in a majority of such incidents, we also know that they have been shut down and the authorities locked away. There are so many people who adopt and convert across religions and spiritual beliefs. Some even have hybrid beliefs. For so many reasons, of course.

I do not have any different view of the following:

Here's the truth from a 'BK point of view' (not mine) ... from a strict BK point of view.

Having done the course, they will believe you will take some rebirths in heaven, but not making efforts, and not surrendering after 15 years, you are only a half-BK. A "subject soul".

They will consider that you are a Silver Aged soul at best ... that you'll miss out on the Golden Age and only take rebirth at the end of the Silver Age. 60 births instead of 84 and no births in a royal family.


Does that mean I got the same education as you did? Maybe, maybe not. Should be, definitely, but not is also possible. I am starting to feel it was similar but for some reason (you have already suggested few), not identical.

I do not have a reason to doubt your words. Just that I did not have the same experiences. And I have already emphasized that I like to concentrate on understanding the path itself and don't like to worry myself with how well anyone has been able to follow it, as long as the path is acceptable and comprehensible to me.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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Pink Panther

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

You may not realise it but you still obfuscated and did not answer a direct simple question that only requires a sentence or two, not paragraphs of qualifiers or misdirections.

I am not asking about any ‘path' to God, but the destination itself. How will you know if the path is the right one to take you to your destination, or that you have reached it, if you don't have a clear definition of God?

How do you tell the difference between ”god” and a trickster you may meet on the path?

So, simply, in a sentence or two ... What is your definition of God?

We can then compare to BK definition of God.
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quantum

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

Opinions are like R Souls ... everyone's got one ...
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

ex-I wrote:broken link there, because.p. Do you have another link to it?

Sorry, it's here (Life of a sincere BK. Earnestly trying to follow the fallacy)
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awakening

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

Pink Panther,
So, simply, in a sentence or two ... What is your definition of God?

We can then compare to BK definition of God.

You (and others probably) are of the opinion that I have not been getting the "real" knowledge that the BKs teach. I get that message. And I have accepted that this may be true. But I think you too would have got the message by now that I believe you have somehow not been getting the "real" knowledge. You have your reasons. I have mine. We have exchanged them.

Now, you also apparently have the opinion that "my definition" of God can be expressed in a sentence or two. Yes it can, but there is no such thing as "my definition", rather I would like to call it "my understanding". I don't need to come up with a new definition. This has been done throughout religions and spiritual orgs.

About the definition of God, among other things, you should understand that I don't have any new or different view than the one publicly available at BKWSU

(http://brahmakumaris.org/whatwedo/cours ... on_god.htm).

Also, I have already attempted to share my experience (sorry, doesn't "define" God though):
... "the ultimate truth", which may be visualized as a nutshell, compressing of all possible knowledge (known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns). Call it a "capsule" if you like.
When I did follow some significant portion, I could see and feel the power of such a capsule. But this does not mean that I have the capsule. Far from it. But I am glad that I have sight of it now and if I can put in more effort I can get closer.

Finally, I would like to emphasize again:
What I do follow, is attempt to keep a constant connection with (my)self and God, throughout the day, everyday. The results of these attempts make a mixed bag. The benefits I experience however, whenever I am successful, are more than considerable. Again, I would like to emphasize that I am afraid that the only real way to know for sure what these benefits are and what it feels like, is to experience such a phenomenon for yourself.

Om Shanti! Satyamev Jayate!
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

Awakening, one small, straight and simple question from my side.

Instead of an essay, a straight and simple answer is expected from you.

Does GOD have agents? [Y/N]

If yes, does he ask them to give HIS introduction to OTHERS and expect them to get restricted in to the beliefs of that given introduction? [Y/N]

If yes, does he ask his agents to compel the restricted one’s to follow the instructions being given, and if they don’t, then push them in to the feeling of severe guilt and regrets ? [Y/N]

Out of the above three questions, if any one comes out to be “N” then it is obvious that BK God is not GOD as it is hugely claimed and propagated by the BKs, just to fulfill their own desires and social climbing.

Thanks
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ex-l

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Re: Awakening: the response of a recent BK supporter

Post20 Feb 2015

They other obvious question to ask is, why for the last 15 years ... if you believe the god spirit of the BKs *is* the God of all ... don't you follow his advice and go to Morning Class and Amrit Vela every day?

It suggests to me that either you don't completely believe in either their god spirit being that God ... or that you don't completely believe in the BKs being his finance hungry 'go between' agents, extracting their Sindhi commission from your relationship.
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