Can someone please explain "The Cycle" to me? Thanks : )

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Harleymachine

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Can someone please explain "The Cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post14 Feb 2015

I was wondering if someone on here can explain "The Cycle" and "Tree" to me ... Thanks : ).
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Pink Panther

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post14 Feb 2015

Yes, they’re a fanciful rationalisation using basic universal symbols (trees and cycles are used metaphorically in many cultures and circumstances).

It’s all based on a concoction of cherry-picked extracts of vedic scriptural references which self-confirm for Lekhraj his belief that he is Krisna reincarnated, and as Krisna lived 5000 years ago, how can he we make that fit?

Easy: the parts that fitted his narrative are the ”true” parts of the scriptures and the parts that don’t fit the narrative must be false, corrupted, etc. Same goes for science, history etc.

Lekhraj blended with other local religious stories THAT HE KNEW ABOUT from sikhs, Muslims and christians and AND DOES NOT INCLUDE THINGS HE DID NOT KNOW ABOUT like Shinto, Tao, european paganism, american and australian indigenous spirituality etc (or even that Judaism and Islam are quite separate ”branches”) . The chinese, a quarter of humanity, and who followed Tao, Confucius, ancestor worship - don’t get a look in.

This reveals the lie in the idea that those teachings come from an all-knowledgeful God whose main role is to come to explain what humans don’t know.

Apart from that, what else do you want to know?
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ex-l

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

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Harleymachine

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post15 Feb 2015

Great thanks ex-I
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ex-l

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post15 Feb 2015

There's also the teachers' manual version showing how to teach it.

Here; http://brahmakumaris.info/w/index.php?t ... _The_Cycle
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Pink Panther

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post16 Feb 2015

Interesting that there is no guide to how to answer the obvious questions that would arise, e.g questioning the 5000 years or the premise of identical repetition, or conflicts with evidence from other areas, or even if it is meant to be metaphorical rather than literally true.

Below is a fine example of the many ways the BKs confidently assert things which are incorrect, pretending they have studied and know all about other religions and history, in a way a trusting newcomer would expect from a ”teacher" of a spiritual ”University”.

All they expect from the users of this manual, is ”parroting" without understanding, without questioning or researching, as any real university would expect. Good parrots are good teachers? I think not. Here’s the example :
Buddha arrives (in approximately 250 B.C.) with a basically humanistic approach. With great honesty [Buddha] makes no mention of the Supreme God but says that suffering is due to desires and that liberation involves their suppression, by following what he calls the Noble Eightfold Path:
    1. Right action
    2. Right belief
    3. Right aspiration
    4. Right speech
    5. Right livelihood
    6. Right endeavor
    7. Right thought
    8. Right meditation
The key word of course is "right"


Note - the teachings in this manual all come from 'God Shiva' (the b.s. artist previously known as Prajapati God Brahma) - with relating the ‘Gyan’ being ‘god’s' sole purpose in drama, , as "god" himself says. So you’d expect him to get it right.

Why do they go into this detail for Buddhism in the manual and not the other religions? Because it's with an intention to show that BKs are not in disagreement with Buddhism (which is the source of the popular idea of "mindfulness meditation” in the West), but that Buddhism is inferior because one cannot achieve the goals "without God". BKs are Buddhism+!

"Buddha arrives (in approximately 250 B.C.) "

Sorry, wrong. Best evidence suggests that Buddha was born either c. 563 BCE or c. 480 BCE ,(either 63 years before BKs' Dwapur Yuga or 20 years into it) not 250 BC.

Evidence from just one objective (non-Buddhist) tradition: Alexander the Great’s invasion of India was around 325BC. He & his generals kept comprehensive records of their campaigns and encounters which they sent back to Greece with various specimens to Alexander’s teacher, Aristotle. They had recorded meetings with various Jain and Buddhist philosophers in North West India (i.e. well after the Buddha lived and died in East India). The BKs teach that this all happened 75 years before Buddha was born.

”... says that suffering is due to desires and that liberation involves their suppression" No, that's not the Buddhist teaching. What they have actually done here is apply the same Vedanta philosophy the Buddha was actually refuting (but which the BKs regurgitate for their own ends). From the Vimalakirti Nirdesa Sutra
"To inordinately (增上) conceited (慢) persons (人) the Buddha (佛) said (說) that to abandon (離) desire, anger and stupidity (婬怒癡) is (為) liberation (解脫). To those (若.....者) without (無) inordinate (增上) conceit (慢), the Buddha (佛) said (說) that the nature (性) of desire, anger and stupidity (婬怒癡)) is (即是) liberation (解脫)."

-- that is, the idea of - suppressing, conquering, abandoning - desire is an instruction suitable for those who have ”inordinate conceit” i.e. an overly developed sense of self to which they are attached. Remember, Buddha taught that any idea of ‘atma” is a false conceit.

Those "without inordinate conceit” are ready to understand the subtlety of the Buddhist teaching, that liberation is/has the same nature as desire, anger or stupidity. (it’s off-topic so won';t explore that subtlety here)

"the Noble Eightfold Path 1. Right action (etc) ....The key word of course is ”right"'

The key word... is ‘right’, is WRONG again BKWSU.

Although even much of English Buddhist literature uses this term ”right" (and the BKs obviously just copied & pasted this from somewhere) there are many poor translations and versions.

This word is one such bad translation, as are many of the other terms in the list, and it’s not even listed in the ”right” order either!

This mistranslation gives rise to, or rises out, of moral prejudices - i.e. that there is a ‘wrong’ or ”bad” way to do these things.

The original word, here mistranslated as ”right”, is "sama" which translates more accurately as ”equalised” or "complete” or ”total” (it’s the same root word as the Latin and English word ”sum”). The antonym for "sama" is - "unbalanced/unequal” or ”incomplete”, ”unskilled", "inadequate" - without moral judgement because moral behaviour in itself does not necessarily lead to liberation, alhough it doesn't hinder it by any means.

The BKs reinforce popular misconceptions. They teach ill-informed nonsense that perpetuates ignorance, asking students to identify their meditation experience as the ‘convincer' that they are one of the chosen ones, and to ’not understand’ the Gyan cancels out that special passport.

The BKs make no effort to break out of the brahmanic view of the world - hierarchical, exclusive, self-serving and self-justifying - they only reinterpret it so its BKs themselves who are at the top
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ex-l

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post18 Feb 2015

It's an interesting question, "Can someone please explain The Cycle?".

We can repeat the facts of it, e.g. 84 births maximum (for a minority of 900,000 BKs only), 21 births in heaven (again for BKs only, growing to 330 million at the end - a magic number they stole from Hinduism[/]); 50% Heaven on earth, 50% Hell on earth; 5,000 years long, no ifs, buts or may bes; repeats identically right down to a molecular level (complete with light from distant stars reversing in the sky - [i]although they have no explanation of how); ends up with a blood bath civil war in India and nuclear war wiping out humanity and sinking all of the rest of the continent ... after which there is a magical clean up (no explanation of radioactivity) and re-construction period and then the BKs come back to enjoy their high tech heaven on earth with golden palaces and diamond strewn nature.

But is that an explanation of either "how?" or "why?".

I think the 'explanation' of it is this ...

The BKs' conception of history, geography and science generally is clearly utterly bonkers or, in the case of the original BKs ... utterly non-existent.

Remember, BKism grew out of an uneducated - even anti-education - society, a wealthy but lower merchant caste, in which the women were historically not-educated and cloistered. Literally kept within their homes and families. From there, they were "liberated" by this successful but uneducated and ultimately narcissistic business ... and promptly cloistered yet again ... kept away from any external influences such as books, newspapers, the movies, other priests and pundits etc ... even their own families. And this went on for about 20 years until the mid to late 1950s when some were then let loose on the world but only to propagate what had by them been brainwashed into them daily.

Until you read some of the Sakar Murlis, you won't know what brainwashed means. This business man was their only financial support in life and they were totally controlled by him and the spirit guides who appeared at their seances, even to the point of being drilled like troops.

From the 1950s to the 1970s, they pumped out their beliefs in India, largely to equally uneducated Indians, beliefs which included the End of the World in 1976 - which you might notice ... did not happen.

Around that time, they expanded to the West, mainly to prey on overseas communities of still equally uneducated Sindi and Hindu emigrants ... therefore, for over 40 years, they had had very little to no challenges to their teachings.

Then educated Westerners started to be attracted and started to ask such questions as, "what about the dinosaurs/prehistory/the Pyramids/laws of physics etc etc etc?" for what the BK leaders - who had still not educated themselves at all except in how to turn their religion into a money making machine - had no answers.

So they started 'de-educating' them and processing them through the 're-education' system they had designed for susceptible Hindus, e.g. teaching them about Krishna and the Trimurti to then beat the idea that Krishna, Vishnu etc was God out of them again. Anyone asking questions about such problems was sidelined, dismissed, ignored etc.

So why do they still teach 5,000 Year identical cycles of times and what purpose does it serve?

I think the answer to that is simple ... it's like a salesman or con merchant getting a victim to believe in whatever it is they want them to believe as a way of filtering out difficult (informed) consumers from dumb (vulnerable) ones they can then further exploit.

BKism is based on not thinking, not questioning, accepting not understanding. Its leaders literally encourage their followers, especially young followers, not to think and not to question. Their social reward systems are based on 'accepting', repeating well and embellishing in a profitable manner.

Therefore, 5,000 Years Cycle become a kind of totem, a pillar of faith, a symbolic concept which defines you as BK or non-BK. You must accept it in order to be accepted by the group ... and if you don't, it's a clear indication that you are likely to be problematic and non-profitable.

Pink Panther is a good example of this. His questions were endlessly problematic not only to them but even their god spirit, to the point where he was largely sidelined! And the BKs are not above derision or manipulating peer pressure against such individuals.

The likely history of the concept above is, I believe, the most likely one. It was not revealed to them by their god spirit, it came early and arose from the Kirpalani family's Hindu faith. It works as a mental plug to one of the archetypal philosophical questions, e.g. who am I, where did I come from, what am I doing here, what is life and so on. It's really just a nonsensical arbitrary timeframe within which to fit all their simplistic and derivative ideas, e.g. 4 Yugas, 84 births, 330 million deities etc - all taken from Hinduism but compressed into a far shorter more urgent package which encourages devotion and surrender.

And, in that you have the crunch ... ONE LIVE TO GAIN SALVATION AND A HIGH STATUS IN HEAVEN ON EARTH FOR ETERNITY.

Basically, it's Hinduism compressed from million of years into 5,000 with an extra yuga or age tagged on at the end. Lekhraj Kirpalani adopted the Christian millenarianists' game of an End of the World in two or three years which they have been using to extort money, property and free labour out of brainwashed encultees ever since.

The BKs often say the lesson on The Cycle is the deciding factor for newcomers, so much so that they stopped teaching it in their basic introduction because they keep losing so many people because of it. Folks would come to the course and like the floating, trippy meditation, then hit The Cycle and run away.

Therefore nowadays they tend not to teach it until someone is already fairly well hooked and is starting to become enculted. It's quite common for individuals to become enculted - addicted to the meditation or whatever it triggers off - without knowing what the BKs actually believe.

For cooperative VIP types, they might never ever tell them because they know how bananas it sounds.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post18 Feb 2015

So why do they still teach 5,000 Year identical cycles of times and what purpose does it serve?
Your analysis and conclusion is spot on there ex-l. They have resisted jettisoning it for decades despite a lot of pressure from westerners and educated Indians who have been instrumental in changing other things, like the terminology of ”Vinash / Destruction” into "Transformation” and making the BKs more publicly ecumenical.

To jettison it completely would be an admission of error on god’s part and their Baba’s part (whom they say is to be considered equal to god) and would also require an almost total abandoning of the Sakar Murlis.

But I think your ”totemic” importance is the more sublime yet more powerful reason, what gives it its ”life". Once a person makes the effort to shift their mindset to incorporate thinking in terms of the 5000 year cycle, they have basically shifted their mindset to accept anything uniquely BK. If you've accepted the 5000 year Kalpa, you've accepted everything.

It is similar to what defines a Christian. You can follow and live all of Christ’s teachings, turn the other cheek, repent of your sins, follow the golden rule, have no other god before YHWH etc. But it’s only when you accept that Jesus is the only son of God, God-made-flesh, so he could die on the cross & be resurrected as a means to absorb the sins of mankind, it’s only when you accept that can you be named a Christian.
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ex-l

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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post18 Feb 2015

TempleW ... are the basic "facts" of The Cycle clear to you? Do you have any more questions there before we head off into more theoretical investigations of it?

I think it's interesting to reduce the development of BK beliefs right down to the individuals involved as they expanded into the West, and look at their reasons for adhering, e.g. Janki Kirpalani, then Jayanti and her mother, and Sudesh, then the first generation Westerners etc.

For Janki, Lekhraj Kirpalani was a relatively distant lifesaver. By "relatively distant", I mean that as she left the community to get unhappily married then ran back to him after her child died (or was even let die) she missed being part of the inner circle and was relatively low and on the outsides of what was going on in the group.

To believe unquestioningly - and she again had basically no education except some reading and writing and arithmetic - was her way of expressing her love and gratitude towards him and getting closer ... and so unquestioning belief and devotion to Lekhraj Kirpalani became significant content of her Empire.

The spirit guide "Shiva", when its existence was finally decided upon some time post-1955, gave no explanation of the hows and whys of a belief that had already been existent amongst the BKs since the beginning. The "proofs" of the wisdom came not in logic and facts but rather in the mediumistic displays the ghost gave in the early seances ... e.g. reporting on the alleged sins of individuals within the community.

It's Janki I quote when I write, "don't think, don't question, just surrender" ... that was her speaking to thousands of young trainee girls in India, i.e. "do as I did". Janki's devotion to Lekhraj Kirpalani, even beyond the grave, was so much she had to have and instituted, the fashion of having life sized trance light pictures of LKs in all centres. So too for her the, "Baba, Baba, Baba" approach. To doubt and question The Cycle was to doubt and question her Baba. Lekhraj Kirpalani her own personal saviour.

Jayanti, Janki's number two, got as far as a Western education and university entrance but dropped out in her first year.

She has laterally claimed it was due to sexism and her being rejected for medicine and only getting into pharmacy ... is not that just so typical for Indian girls of her generation and even now? ... but I would guess there were other factors; it was just too hard, she was a romantic and just plain not good enough/did not work hard enough to get into medical school. Perhaps in her she really wanted to do something else more arts based but was forced by her Father, and that for her becoming a BK was the only possible acceptable escape route. Her mother was a demi-BK and would have supported that. She had it tough under Janki and to be accepted and 'on the books' she had to just accept. Listen and repeat was her role.

Hence acceptance and surrender.

Many BKs doubt The Cycle. Most ex-BKs, after leaving, wonder how on earth they ever allowed themselves to 'suspend their disbelief' and believe and teach The Cycle. I do ... I doubt I ever really did but on the surface I fully engaged in a kind of manic acting out or rather 'dissociation' in order to keep the bubble of adherence pumped up.

For example, what I really wanted was accepted by the group, to be part of "the family", and so to listen and repeat well was how I did so, it and unquestioning acceptance was the behaviour that was most rewarded.

Questioning as a real teacher would encourage ... which in essence was challenging the position and status of the elders ... saw one being pushed away, reproached, and diminished.

That was on one side ... the other side was an ego trap. My ego (BK term) was attracted and hooked by the idea of being an authority and great "spiritual teacher" (!), by the role of playing the guru. BKism gives enough special language and ideas to elevate anyone who can remember it - especially the failed actors/performers or wannabe priests amongst us - to instant guru status AND subjects to perform in front of ... the newcomers like TempleW.

Imagine ... 7 hours and more of performing in front of a willing attentive and submissive audience week after week. How many actors even get that?

I think that is the other part of the hook. We got hook not by what it meant in real terms but by how we could use it to feed our egos. It did not matter if we really believed it ...

Just as with the team colours and uniform, it differentiated our team (cult) from other teams (other cults) and worked as a refined performance piece in the theatre of ideas.

I am thinking now of everyone from the Jagdish Chander to the early Westerners who helped refine it and make it more palatable (vague and arty) for other Westerners.

And, of course, we were being brainwashed day in, day out by the Murlis and other BKs repeating the idea 10,000s times a week.
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Re: Can someone please explain the "cycle" to me? Thanks : )

Post18 Feb 2015

ex-l wrote:Many BKs doubt The Cycle. Most ex-BKs, after leaving, wonder how on earth they ever allowed themselves to 'suspend their disbelief' and believe and teach The Cycle. I do ... I doubt I ever really did but on the surface I fully engaged in a kind of manic acting out or rather 'dissociation' in order to keep the bubble of adherence pumped up.

I know what you mean there ex-l. For me, it was the toughest part of the Gyan to accommodate. For years I worked on it, and I would say now the approach behind all the different way i looked at it came down to, ”well, if it were true, how would that be?” i.e. you take the approach that it is true first, forget about all the other histories, evidence and theories, and try to build a world view "as if” The Cycle of 5000 years was the reality.

What that does is it frees your head from asking other questions because you’ve found a way to see chalk as cheese, anything that seems nonsensical is because of what I am lacking, and if I can make it ”make sense” I am no longer lacking. Then you can get on with the rest of BK-ing - the meditating, the communing, the jargon-filled socialising etc.

Of course, eventually one feels one is kidding oneself via various stresses, strains, emotional states etc.

”Rationalisation” and various justifications doesn’t cut it anymore, you see the difficulties you and others are going through as they try to hold on. Finally, you acknowledge you’ve lied to yourself for a long time and you haven’t been enjoying the party as much as you told yourself you were. It’s time to leave before it (your life) 'gets ugly'.

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