Drishti experiences?

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Harleymachine

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Drishti experiences?

Post14 Apr 2015

I am new to this experience of "Drishti". I am clear in what it means but find it hard to see past the person rolling their eyes back in their head or they're looking like they have just got deep heat/tiger balm in their eyes, lol. Only one person I have enjoyed "drishti" with who had a gentle way about them.

Are you taught to drishti in a particular way? What's up with the faces people pull?
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quantum

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post15 Apr 2015

Mmmmm ... be genuine, or don't post. Your habit is getting boring. Maybe try doing some service to engage yourself.
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ex-l

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post15 Apr 2015

To be honest, quantum I suspect Harleymachine is being genuine and is putting their finger on something quite true ... the sort of spiritually pretentious "divine" or faux blissed out look some BKs put on ... and you're the one freaking out and coming on like a BK. "Try doing some service" !?! WTF, that's a pure BKism.

Many BKs are just falling asleep ... which I suspect is the "Tiger Balm" look. That made me laugh.

In short, a lot of it is put on ... some of it *is* being zonked by the heavily hypnotic practise which are often associated with a heavy pressure on the forehead, like someone was pressing their thumb into it. BKs tend to believe it is spirit energy powering out of them.

There's social pressure to put on "divine" or "blissed out" faces ... and exaggerate the depth of your experience ... but you're not told to do it.

And there's a lot of half dozing off by exhausted BKs who've been up since 4 am to meditate (3.30 if you bathe first or travel to the centre). Crazy to think we put ourself through it all.

When I used to give course with students, I generally used to have much more powerful experiences; When I used to give Drishti from the "guddhi" to a class, I used to feel my head was being moved by some 'unseen' force. No idea what ... no one could really give definitive answers.

Once you're 'in' there's only basically two answers; "Baba, Baba, Baba" and "Do more Yoga".

All in all, a fair "Emperor's Clothes" type question, I think.
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quantum

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post16 Apr 2015

Funny thing ex-l ... right now, Templebulls...t BK is feeling gleeful and gloating, at your response. She may think she's 'clever' and has fooled you, but she has NOT fooled me ... I detected her deception back earlier in her previous posts, and may I say ex-l, it is not always 'the black and white written words themselves', that tells the full story. It is the 'intentions, the energies, the subtleties behind them that I am talking about here. It's the 'feminine aspect, intuition, sensing heart, right brain aspect of the self, that I am using, so I cannot 'quantify" it for you in any other terms.

No, I am not freaking out and coming on like a BK ... I Intended to "come on like a BK' to her, OK ... correct ... re-do some service. Obviously 'the fire of Yoga' is not working too well for her ... Anyway that's easy sorted via here. No problemo.
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ex-l

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post16 Apr 2015

I take everyone on face value in the first place and have no reason to doubt Harleymachine is anyone but who they say they are, an ongoing new student of the BKWSY.

We encourage open discussion about the BKs from anyone ... short of idiot BKs "correcting" our views and pushing clear BK propaganda.

If you have a doubt, ask openly, honestly and politely. I'd be very careful of jumping on anyone on the basis of "intuitions". We've seen it go *very* wrong here.

To my mind, the only thing 'reliable' about intuitions ... is that they are unreliable. BKism encourages crackpots to wander are believe God is speaking to them and directing their every actions (through "Baba touching the soul"), and made crackpots out of all of us.

Oh, yeah, and God Baba told me to tell you that ... so it must be true!
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Friend

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post16 Apr 2015

The drishti is one of the things that keep me from leaving Gyan. Placebo doesn't explain the things myself and especially others have experienced (I believe them). And people have experienced things when by being near Dadi Janki or in Pandav Bawan. Is this just an energy people get from their brain? Improbable. Is it from the spirit of Kirpalani? Why do we not experience it anywhere else?
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ex-l

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post16 Apr 2015

I, personally, don't deny the experiences we/people have in BKism, nor do I suggest they are all personally manufactured or imagined. But other peoples have other experiences they are equally impressed by and even more "powerful, eg Christians being "slain by the Holy Spirit".

But what does it all lead to? That is the question to ask.

Fine, one/you get a good 'hit' off the BKs, like a drug user does of their drug ... but it all still leads to the same end; 5000 Year Cycles, Destruction, servitude to and exploitation by the Kirpalani Klan.

I tend to think it's all on a lower psychic level. Intoxicating? Yes. But what does "Intoxication" mean?
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quantum

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post16 Apr 2015

Yes, intuition can be wrong, but so can left brain thinking. it's good to keep in mind, but I am not referring to anything of BKism, or what it encourages. All the same, we have it as part of our inherint make up, and for a reason, and it can be of benefit when accurate and developed sufficiently. It's a journey and ongoing process within itself.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post17 Apr 2015

Direct eye and face contact is a primal, atavistic form of communication.

It is today the essence of most portraiture and advertising (smiling faces are probably the single most used way of associating product with emotion). It is a clear signal that prey get from a predator that they are in their sights!

It is the first recognition a baby has of its parents and siblings and by recognising similarity it relates to extended family easily.

When you look directly at someone and they at you, the question is asked - why & how are you looking at me? Because I am your superior? your equal? your inferior? your love ? your enemy? your dependant? your dinner?

It is also known that the people you see the most of are the people you will sympathise with most.

Next time you ‘take dristi” have those questions in mind as you look at the person looking at you.
A pet gives loving gaze to the one that feeds it. Can’t help itself.
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ex-l

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post17 Apr 2015

I was interested by the recent Scientology documentary where actor Jason Beghe talks about their one on one practise and how he "exteriorized" ... their term for "leaving the body" or, perhaps, seed stage.

The Eckankar people do/did their own similar thing too.

I am thinking it's more universal an experience than the BKs realise.

My regular stray cat gives me dristhi too. Mostly, I think he is trying to psychically implant in my mind, "Feed me", whereas the BKs were psychically to psychically implant in my mind, "Feed our bank account".

At least the cat gives affection back. Makes me feel better than "toli and dristhi from Dadi" ... but the principle is the same, I think.
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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post17 Apr 2015

ex-l,

The thing is, does anyone experience the Ocean of Peace, Love, Bliss etc that BKs do, especially without themselves meditating but through someone's drishti/glare?

I know transcendental meditation gives great experiences but you cannot get that by someone looking at you. God's energy being transferred is an explanation for the BK effect, but I cannot imagine something else. I am keeping an open mind and that's why I am talking to you who is someone who does not believe God is involved with it. I am still trying to understand what's going on. I don't want to say "I found God" or "God is not related to te BKs" without being sure for either.
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aham brahmashmi

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

I try to understand different type samadhi concept here. http://www.sivanandaonline.org/public_h ... ion_id=927

ex-l, can you explain what brahmakumari think about it? (What is logic behind what they think about these type of samadhi?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

Dristi has the ”fascination” effect that a predator has on its prey, or headlights have on a deer, rabbit or kangaroo. They freeze.
Etymology - From Latin fascinare ("to bewitch"), possibly from Ancient Greek βασκαίνιεν

Noun: The act of fascinating, bewitching, or enchanting; enchantment; witchcraft; the exercise of a powerful or irresistible influence on the affections or passions; unseen, inexplicable influence.
The state or condition of being fascinated.
That which fascinates; a charm; a spell.

Women have ”fascinators” on their millinery (fancy hats) which are imitating the fascinators in the animal kingdom. A good example of this is the peacock’s tail, covered in eyes, or the way a snake mesmerises its prey.

Now, when you combine this phenomenon with a meditation practice, it encourages you to forget everything else and be attentive (to what may happen) and it encourages stillness, a state of preparation. It is also confronting, reminding you of what you are supposed to be doing (which you might otherwise doing innattentively in solitude). People tend to sit up straighter when sharing dristi, and that erect posture is a basic discipline of many meditation traditions, like Soto Zen which has sitting in correct posture as the basis of its practice (i.e. the practitioner is then allowed to come to their own realisations, no particular experience is prescribed, expected or achieved. Enlightenment is potential within each person).


These traditions are built on the fact that such a posture allows free, easy breathing, maximum alertness and stillness all at once, which allows the mind to be free of other distractions, even the slight effort of breathing into slightly congested ribcage. Dristi is part of that tradition too, and found in many ‘schools' not just BKs. The third eye dristi practice is part of other vedantic and Buddhist practices, Lekhraj Kripalani is said to have learnt a technique from a saddhu (one who has ”achieved” through saddhana). Hitler, and other early 20th C. europeans who became fascinated (!) with eastern philosophies is said to have practiced an ‘eye-contact” charismatic technique.

What is that feeling (energy) you get? It’s you. It's what lies beneath the mundane, conditioned you when you get out of your own way, when the chatter and whirr (vritti) of ego-creating consciousness (aham kara) is finally stilled because its not only unnecessary but counter-productive.

You learn to make the silent spaces between the ‘thought-words‘ longer and longer, you feel a profound experience of ”being” that is not coming from the ego whirrings, so logically ego figures it is ”someone else” - an ”other” - because it not ‘conventional” me.

What is felt in many such traditions is similar but is named and understood according to culture and language of the belief system.
    BKs call the lsat remnant of ego conscious whirring as ”atma” and the "other” experience as ”paramatma” .
    Christian mystics call it ‘Christ consciousness” and ”Godhead”, Orthodox Christian mystics call it ”ησυχία” (quietude).
    Patanjali talks of Samadhi. (”sama” - same,, sum, equilibrium, all; and ”adhi” - max, super-, meta- )
    Buddhists will use terms like ”entering the stream”
    Chan Buddhists use Hua T’uo (head of the thought - the state preceding thought) and Hua Wei (tail of the thought - the effect of the thought), nirvana (extinguishment of self) etc.
    Taoist meditation is concerned with seeing ‘what is” and speak of ”Yuanyou” ("far-off journey; ecstatic excursion)
    Jungian psychology distinguishes ”Ego" (conscious aspect of self) from ”Self” (whole being including the unconscious aspects)
The point is, it is not necessarily ”soul and god” or anything to do with immortality, considering all these similar practices are about presence. Buddhism for example is based on ”anatman” (no immortal self) and ”anicca" (Impermanence), the Tao is being one the constant flow and constant change of things, including self (while it exists) .

The way the experience of such states will emerge and be ”understood” in retrospect will be accordiing to the thought forms and cultural structures you place around it. The language and terminology etc, they are wrapping and ribbons - because the present is a gift!
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Friend

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

Thank you for taking the time to share such broad knowledge. I definitely did not know those things. I have to say though, that I don't find these things explain the power of the drishti and cetainly not the effect of being near Dadi Janki or being in certain places where a lot of tapasya has taken place or how the drishti or presence of "important God instruments" like the Dadis or Sister Jayanti etc is more powerful. Coincidence?

Yours or anyone's thoughts?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

Practice anything for a long period diligently and you can develop it. They (the Dadis you mention) have practiced according to their understanding, and developed it. What I am saying is - what you feel is not necessarily because of ”soul” or ”god”.

Whether you explain, for example, a mother’s love by biology, psychology, divine purpose or social conditioning, whatever, they are all descriptions that are valid from their own perspective, they are "working models” to explain it, but are not the thing itself. The menu is not the meal, nor is talking about the meal you just had the same as the meal. Mother’s love remains despite the descriptions, i.e. regardless of them, and not because of them. Each generation & culture does it in its own way but with a common thread we call mothering, because its in human nature.

Dristi meditation practice is not as universal as mothering, but it occurs in different cultures and different times - a human propensity that will emerge because humans can do it. The BK teachings claim it as their uniquely their own, and if BKs are the first encounter you have with that kind of thing, you may believe them.

BKs dristi method is based on someone’s new understanding of a phenomenon that has been going for millenia. They were not the first group to use this process and won't be the last. Gurus and charismatic leaders come and go. Remember, Lekhraj for decades thought he himself was God Prajapati Brahma. He and his followers spent decades working out their own rationalisations of this "divine” experiences, adjusting the narrative regularly until we have the Gyan that is taught today.

They like to sell their way of doing it and their way of talking about it as ”god’s truth” when in fact it is almost inevitable human nature and propensity, almost like a maths formula. Charismatic leader+devotees+eye contact=dristi experience. Even teenage girls will go into ecstasy gazing at their idols ”looking” at them” from posters and feel love and other emotions. Not identical but similar, dfiffering by degree.

BK dristi method is what can be called in psychology as ”mutual projection” or ”transference”.
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