Drishti experiences?

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
  • Message
  • Author
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

Elsewhere on this site and internet, there is a video of Derren Brown, a hypnotist, inducing atheists into having a "God experience/conversion, eg here.
Friend wrote:The thing is, does anyone experience the Ocean of Peace, Love, Bliss etc that BKs do ...

Do people experience the "Ocean" of Peace, Love, Bliss etc that BKs claim they do? Or is it just a trademark ... a grandiose title for whatever is happening (and I accept something can happen for some)? Would you buy it if it was called "The Puddle of Love"? How can we measure and compare such things?

Equally, I know individuals who were BKs for many years, even a financed centre, who did not experience anything.

For me, it would not if BKs had full blown multiple orgasms and saw a fire works shows every time they chanted "OM" ... what matters is the end it is all working towards - the "Great Death" and annihilation of humanity - and the manifestation meanwhile - wealth, power and land/property for the leadership.

This is not just a superficial, personal view. It is one based on classical spiritual values. The evidence the BKs present - and their methodology (exaggeration, manipulation, deceit) is not of the highest level. It's at a lower, more worldly level or worse.

Some people actually see the BKs and their god spirit as "evil" ... the work of a false god or prophet, a Satanic or Luciferic angel in Christian terms.

Although I am cautious about using such terms ... because they are easy to manipulate and misrepresent ... *metaphorically* I tend to agree with such a view.

Fine, say BKism is the most drug you've ever taken ... but is that not just being all self absorbed? It is not just all selfishness and conceit ... all about "me, my experience and damn the rest of the world"? What does it do for others?

I tend to think "higher" spirituality is even more subtle and refined and promotes honesty, clarity and selfless virtues.

I see very little evidence of that in the "look at us ... are not we great ... where are the VIPs ... gives us all your property and wealth ... Destroy humanity" religion Lekhraj Kirpalani and the Krirpalani Klan have created.

Have the BKs really created "great" spiritual people ... or an army of brainwashed zombies who spend all their time lying to people, or repeating second hand lies their leaders have told them?

I am sorry but, for me, that self absorbed "in-toxic-ation" is worth nothing. It's just another opiate and it warps and debases individuals, not straightens up and elevates them.

And there is certainly not a "supreme" god at the heart of it.

From Greek mythology, we have the parable or idiom of "the lotus-eaters", a race of people living on an island dominated by narcotic lotus plants which caused the people to sleep in peaceful apathy.
Offline

Free Speech

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

ex-l from one of his posts :
My regular stray cat gives me dristhi too. Mostly, I think he is trying to psychically implant in my mind, "Feed me". At least the cat gives affection back. Makes me feel better than "toli and dristhi from Dadi" ... but the principle is the same, I think.

:D Very funny indeed.
ex-l : To my mind, the only thing 'reliable' about intuitions ... is that they are unreliable.

Pink Panther :
Direct eye and face contact is a primal, atavistic form of communication.
It is today the essence of most portraiture and advertising (smiling faces are probably the single most used way of associating product with emotion). It is a clear signal that prey get from a predator that they are in their sights!
It is the first recognition a baby has of its parents and siblings and by recognising similarity it relates to extended family easily. People tend to sit up straighter when sharing dristi, and that erect posture is a basic discipline of many meditation traditions, like Soto Zen which has sitting in correct posture as the basis of its practice
BK dristi method is what can be called in psychology as ”mutual projection” or ”transference”.

I kinda feel that this is a far better intellectual group here. Liked reading all the posts related to this topic. What is this Drishti in BK context??? Is sitting at one place & just rotating head with a baseless belief that you are emitting some energy towards other through eyes called Drishti in BK terminology? I really found that form of mediation dumb.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post18 Apr 2015

It's "nice" to look at people in the eye ... it even helps making them fall in love with you! See 'The Power of Eye Contact' below and Are you looking at me? (Macrae, Milne, Hood, Rowe & Mason 2002).

No one here would claim to have all the answers, but we'd like to encourage recovering BKs to start thinking and questioning.

Drishti obviously has a group bonding effect, eg it's also a good practice to look at others in the eye, drop all judgement thoughts about them. But what purpose is it then put to?

If you were to analyse what it was ... you'd have to look at and subtract all of these know effects, what was left being the BK bit.

Now, the BK teachings specifically state that during group meditation there is a chance some other spirit, or even god, may "overshadow" (non-BK term) the meditation guide. There's no control over how or when or if ... it's just one of their mysteries that may or may not happen, eg a Dadi, or Mama, or Lekhraj Kirpalani. No one really knows.

Pink might argue it was just some kind of impersonal cosmic energy exchange, but the BKs definitely portray it on a spiritualist/psychic level. I think it wrong to push spiritualist/psychic things without knowing what going on.

As a BK, Iwould have believed it was happening. It is a "powerful" confidence boosting experience not doled out to all BKs ... and, I would also argue, useful to the leadership socially reinforcing their position at the centre?
A study conducted in 1989 assures that simple eye contact could make a person fall in love with you (Kellerman, Lewis, and Laird). In this study two opposite sex strangers were asked to gaze into each other’s eyes for two minutes, which in some cases, was enough to produce passionate feelings for each other. Eye contact is a powerful stimulator of love and affection. This is because when you look someone directly in the eyes, his/her body produces chemical called phenylethylamine that makes the person feel in love. This is why if you want to make someone fall in love with you, one of the first thing you should do is to look into his/her eyes.

There's a few similar studies, eg The Look of Love: Gaze Shifts and Person Perception - Malia F. Mason, Elizabeth P. Tatkow, and C. Neil Macrae.
Offline

Friend

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2014

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Re: experiencing the Ocean of Love, Bliss etc, I have heard this and I believe it but no one else has to believe it.

I have yet, though, to read an explanation of why I have experienced this energy when being near Sister Denise, for example. Is this something that happens in other spiritual paths? I've never heard of it. Or feel the energy or peace etc during a connection via internet to Maduban or a powerful Brahmin yogi. These things seem unique to the Brahmin "clan" and I cannot ignore them as strange as the 5000 cycle may seem to me.

Also, I have yet to confirm it myself, but what about the effect Raja Yoga has on the growing plants? Is this just a BK lie?
Offline

warrior

working towards unification

  • Posts: 156
  • Joined: 15 May 2007

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Friend wrote:I have yet, though, to read an explanation of why I have experienced this energy when being near Sister Denise, for example. Is this something that happens in other spiritual paths?

You feel like that because you are on same wave length. You both are able or know the pathway of each other waves, the waves are produced all the time and it possible to detect and become familiar to each others waves and vibrations.

This is the way Gulzar does also, she is able to find and be on same wave of the soul of Lekhraj and vice-versa.

But this is not unique technique of BKs only. It happens all the time between people.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Friend,
Re: experiencing the Ocean of Love, Bliss etc, I have heard this and I believe it but no one else has to believe it.

People inevitably believe what they desire to be true, and interpret experiences according to their beliefs. I have spent a long time giving you a broader picture but you shrink back into your lotus eater view of things.

You can go through life bending truth to fit your desires, or bend your desires to fit the truth.

The former is addiction, the latter is recovery.
Offline

Friend

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2014

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

I have paid attention to the broader picture but it still seems to show that the BK experience is unique in that people not only experience beautiful things while meditating or during drishti but also when being in a certain place or near a certain person. You have yet to comment on that and what warrior said just seems like another way of saying the same thing as me.

I don't know if you meant that the person whose experience I believe interpreted her experience the way she wanted to or if I believed whom I wanted to believe but let's clarify that I don't want to believe anything but the truth. The truth is what I am seeking and it doesn't suit me to believe that I have karmic accounts I have to settle or that all my loved ones will die in the Destruction etc. Sure, some things involved in Gyan are beautiful but some seem really rough. But I want to know what is true so that I'll make life choices according to that truth.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Friend wrote:Re: experiencing the Ocean of Love, Bliss etc, I have heard this and I believe it but no one else has to believe it.

Never mind "read", have you experienced it?

And if you experienced something how would you know if it was an "ocean", a "river", a "puddle", or a drip full of narcotics?

It's just a marketing tern borrowed from another religion.
Is this something that happens in other spiritual paths? I've never heard of it.

Of course. Every guru/saint/mystic is surrounded by people having them. What's strange is they are not universal experiences. Like Warrior say, perhaps it's a question of similar wavelength, some people being susceptible, other never.

In BKism, you are being programmed with hypnotic triggers whilst in a light trance state. If you don't know about hypnosis and triggers, study up on them. You'll be surprised at the similarity (although I would agree that's not 100% of the explanation).

We can tell you so, you can read other books and account, but the only way for you to know, is get yourself out and about and experience more. Yes, you get a buzz off the BKs ... but keep sober enough to see their long term plan both for you personally, and the world.
Also, I have yet to confirm it myself, but what about the effect Raja Yoga has on the growing plants? Is this just a BK lie?

Their real speciality is growing bank accounts and real estate portfolios with your wealth and free labour.

Ask Denise to tell you about her physical/nervous breakdown, why it happened, how she coped etc. I heard she had to go home to her real family.
Offline

Friend

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2014

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

I don't want to say specifically who it was that shared the experience of the Ocean etc but it was someone who seemed very moved by the memory of that first Baba experience many years ago. The red Home and then Baba, as she described. She said she had difficulty experiencing anything during meditation and then it happened through someone's drishti and it felt like what I mentioned. It seemed pretty authentic to me, but again, no one has to agree.

I am someone who has felt very few things during meditation (lack of celibacy might be a factor) and I always complain but I have myself felt some really moving things and I believe the people I've talked to about their own experiences though that "Ocean" experience doesn't seem frequent. ex-l, I know you have been close to Dadi Janki in the past, have you never experienced the presence of something that feels like God or do you not trust it was what the BKs say it is? I am interested.

Also, there are experiences of people having visions of light before even going to a BK center or of Brahma Baba or, myself, talking to God while being soul conscious and getting a response (an energy in my head, not words) while being at home. You see why it's hard to just refute the weird stuff included in Gyan? There other examples, as well. I hope I am not being annoying. It's just that this is important to me and I cannot talk about these things with someone who doesn't know the BK knowledge/life or with a hardcore BK.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

If yogic attainment is measured by vegetable farming, your local agricultural show surely offers better ways to that! Or the Findhorn community in northern Scotland.

If living in harmony with nature is the measure, the Australian aboriginal nations are the world’s oldest continuing culture, with practices going back 40,000+ years that did not damage mother earth. And they have much to teach us if only we are humble enough.

I am glad to hear you are not (yet at least) sucked in to the whole BK paradigm based on nice meditation experiences. I have had all those experiences you mention, often, regularly and very powerfully. Both with and without dristi. Before meeting the BKs I had them, through many years with them, and continue to do so still many years after leaving them - after a hiatus where I had to learn to disassociate BK-ness from my meditation.

Let me say that there’s a ”rush” in those experiences. The oceanic feelings and ”vision” stuff, like seeing auras and other faces, and bodies of light or point of light are mere entertainment, even distractions if you let them, from what meditation is about.

What I meant in my previous post was, as ex-l said, broaden your practical experiences, not just theoretically.
There is a definite ”vibe” cultivated by the BK practitioner and that is going to be enhanced in a group situation, and more by "dristi” which is a term found in other yogic texts, both vedantic and Buddhist.

Various practices, religious, mystical, shamanic, psychological etc will have their own ”vibe” that is similar to varying degrees, or very different but no less profound, with that practice’s flavour.

Like watching a fantasy film, one must suspend disbelief or old ways of thinking to enter fully into the experience, but people never forget its a movie, so when most leave they get on with their lives, while a few are so taken by that experience they become fanatics and live for it and by it, seek out others to share their obsession with and live in their mini-universe.

Not the best analogy maybe, but I think you may understand. If you can ”enjoy” the BK meditation that’s fine but the mistake many of us here want to warn people about is entering the ”exclusive” zone, where it takes over your world.

I appreciated some of my time in the BKs, but I resent the way its philosophy creates a psychological & emotional contract that seriously discourages one’s growth in other ways, discourages exploration of life generally. It does not encourage the person to take what they need then move on, but to insist this is all there is, the highest experience and God himself, to leave is to fall.

Such hierarchical quantification of human experience is itself a warning sign that ”truth” is being distorted to serve ego (see Freud’s concept of the super-ego). Another warning is the necessitation of redefining ”God” to suit the BK fallibilities. So too the very concept that ”a surrendered soul” is ”more spiritual” also carries the warning of ”Cult-mind. Entrapment Ahead".

Sure, someone can have misplaced beliefs or even be completely delusional and still have amazing life experiences. Theres’ beautiful people in all religions, as well as nasties. But you've said truth matters. That is, truth is more important than an insular experience of life. That’s part of spiritual maturity.

I knew Denise. I got where she was coming from, in those days at least, decades ago. One of the first to learn Hindi and translate Murli, one of the first tertiary educated ”intellectuals" to be able to ”translate” Gyan into Western modes of thinking. I enjoyed her classes, a nice blend of the philosophical, the spiritual and even the mystical, rare in BKs (that says more about her than the BKs actually).

Not sure where she’s at these days in her ”philosophy”, how she reconciles all those brilliant but now shown to be false ”rationalisations" she used in those early days. Rational people need to rationalise believing God exclusively reveals himself to BKs to prepare them for a forthcoming world Destruction, especially after so many failed eventualities since then (let alone before then).

NB, she was one of only a handful of Westerners who joined the BKs in the years before 1976, the year for which the very explicit prophecy of global Destruction was literally shouted-from-the-rooftops, printed on posters and in their handouts, as instructed by God itself, a date that was ”known" by BKs for at least 10 years beforehand.

The kind of practice of intellectual acuity that can also deny the contradictory proof of what eventuated (or didn’t eventuate) takes a special kind of cleverness - generally known these days as cognitive dissonance, an affliction to which the clever are prone.

To paraphrase the old saying, As per the readiness of the student will be the teacher they look to.

Beware the teacher that you feel ready for who says "my teaching is it".
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

I did not 'know' Denise, but I did see/meet her when she came through London. We "sat at the feet" (literary) of all the BK bigwigs, and Pink's right about the 1976 Destruction date.

For me, that's key in understanding the BKs and their god spirit. "God" does not make false prediction and trick or "test" adherents' faith by doing so. Only in the last few years, we discovered he/they did so during WWII and 1950. In my time, Destruction - the End of the World - was 1986 and then 1986 to 1996.

Yes, ask Denise what her rationalisation for all that, the historical revision and cover up are, and report back to us. I'd be interested.

So, simple answer ... Yes, it can be a buzz but it will wear off after the "Honeymoon Period" and at the end of the day, you'll end up being an unpaid servant/financier of a whacky End of the World cult, be led to stop having relationships - even with your family - and your life - like Denise's - be consumed by it.

Denise was smart. She could have been something. There's no career path in the BKWSU, no return, no pension or security. It's all a one way relationship.

And it's all based on psychism or spiritualism, not spirituality. Don't confuse the marketing with what's really inside.
Offline

Friend

  • Posts: 47
  • Joined: 20 Dec 2014

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Thank you both (especially Pink Panther for his elaborate expression of his thoughts) as well the member who sent me a private message to which I think I cannot respond so I am saying thanks here.

Re: 1976, for what it's worth, Sr Jayanti has been open about Brahma Baba saying regarding, I think the Indian Government, "tell them we'll make heaven in 10 years", because everything was written to Mama and when she passed away the Government was about to take everything from the BKs. (Complicated, probably bad, grammar here, I apologise.) That was said in 1966, hence the 1976 date.

I've read about the other predictions included in the Murlis and if that's true, it's of course hurts the BKs' reliability.

I had heard beforehand about Denise's haelth problems, though not a mention about those problems being of mental nature. Denise herself seems very grounded and practical but of course that doesn't mean you two are wrong about what you say about her being stuck in a dead-end path. I don't know.

I am still trying to figure out what I think about all these things but again, thanks for the responses/comments. :)
Offline

Free Speech

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post19 Apr 2015

Friend wrote:... talking to God while being soul conscious and getting a response (an energy in my head, not words) while being at home

I think you need to stop such meditation or will become psychic in future. You feel this energy in head because you concentrate hard during meditation. Concentrating regularly between eyebrows pulls energy over there. The conscious of soul is spread evenly throughout body & before pulling it at the head, the whole body needs to be cleansed through meditation so that when you meditate, consciousness gets easily concentrated in head & with same ease, it can return back in whole body. This cleansing of whole body cannot be done by type of meditation BKWSU propagate. You need Patanjali Yoga for it.

If body & mind is not cleansed properly, then such imagination of light to pull your conscious can actually lock it in forehead causing paralysis of whole body, which is bad, or giving a samadhi, which is good. But getting a samadhi by imagination is quite impossible and even if you get it, there will be no BK faculty to take you out of that samadhi (as they don't have knowledge of the systematic Yoga) leaving the person in life-death situation. I have read many such cases on various sites related to spirituality.

Why no BK has ever attained a state of samadhi till date? Because they cannot pull whole consciousness up towards their head due to lack of proper Yoga methodology as told by Patanjali.

Why no BK has ever got paralyzed by doing such Yoga? Because they have not been able to pull conscious at all in their head & just do imagination in the name of meditation. The conscious remains evenly spread in their body even when they claim to be in body-less state. Pinch them during the body-less state & you will know it on your own.

Why BKs become psychic (twisting words as per circumstances is one of effects of psych-ism found in senior BKs )? Because they neither attain samadhi nor paralysis but left in middle of 'no experience' and 'expectation of an experience'.

Friend, I can see the abnormal things happening to you, need to take care of your health first.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post20 Apr 2015

Friend wrote:Re: 1976, for what it's worth, Sr Jayanti has been open about ...

Let's be straight, if Jayanti's mentioning it now, it's because we here, and to a lesser degree the PBKs, have been making an issue about it publicly. And what you are getting from the likes of her and the history revision team, is a sort of ameliorated 'damage limitation establishing what is acceptable groupthink for uuquestioning BKs.

What Lekhraj Kirpalani actually said was if Destruction *did not* happen, he/they should give all their wealth and property to the Indian Government.

Boy, they ignored that quickly enough. There's controversy about the founding of the trust that took over after he died ... a couple of days after its establishment,

Confluence Age was 40 years then, not the 100 it became after, nor the 12 before.

Logically, according to BK beliefs, Lekhraj Kirpalani was 99.xx% "perfect" when he made the prediction and his utterances were all "God's" (or equal to them - Shrimat), and equally "perfect". 1976 was never mentioned in my day. 1950 and WWI, we only discovered here a few years ago. We regularly get new BKs coming on here who have never heard of 1986 to 1996. And the leaders pushed 2000 too.

Each time they make extra bucks, acquire properties and 10,000 of hours of free labour.

Is that ethical ... "perfect" or pure?
I've read about the other predictions included in the Murlis and if that's true, it's of course hurts the BKs' reliability.

They are utterly unreliable. What it establishes is they and their god spirit will say anything, change it later, make absolutely no sequential or logic sense, and then they will invest in PR at having to whitewash it all if or when it hits the fan later.

They will have an excuse for everything, eg Denise's breakdown is not evidence of a failure of the practise and uncaring system but will be posed as her fault or failure ... her "impure karma" ... or even, "Baba touching to go back and serve the doctors/her family".

No Westerner and few BKs have done and given as much as Denise ... and for a long time folk thought she was somewhat marginalised by the Hindi/Sindhis ... so she and her life is as good as it will get after 40 years.

I credited her for some intelligence/integrity a long time ago ... she raised the issue of "Sisters using their sexuality for the sake of service" in the past ... but that was before we discovered all the historical revision. I have no idea how she and they is now.

She's never approached us.
Offline

Free Speech

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Re: Drishti experiences?

Post20 Apr 2015

Excuse me, I have to add something related to Destruction dates.

A pukka BK recently told me that 2012 was declared the year of total Destruction as there were some rumors according to Mayan calender. But nothing happened.

BKs were then told that Baba was giving them time to become perfect & then Destruction dates shifted to 2013 which is called "Do Hazaar Terah" in Hindi.

His teacher told him that in 2013, there will be Terahi of all souls on Earth. [Terahi is the 13th day from the day of death of a person, is marked with special importance in Hinduism & several rituals are performed on this day for giving peace to the departed soul].

I don't know what his teacher told him about 2014 and 2015.

Perhaps, you can guess?
PreviousNext

Return to Newcomers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mahendrakumar and 8 guests