What is the ratio ?

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AntiBrahmakumaris

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What is the ratio ?

Post01 May 2015

There are 2 types of BK people ...

Ones who don't know that BK is a cult and, secondly,

The type of people who knows the truth behind BK but still continue to be in BK because they are part of leadership who get advantages of cult, or they have donated all of their property to BK and cannot leave because of financial reasons, or they have left their family long ago, or they don't have courage to face the real outside world.

What are the approximate percentages of both type of people in the BK ?
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ex-l

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post01 May 2015

I don't mean to be trite ... but is not that 5 kinds of people?

It's a good question to analyse, or pose alternatives for.

To the first category, I'd add propose a split ... between those for whom BKism is just a brand of Hinduism Lite™ - most of whom are Indians, and many Indians abroad - and those for who BKism fulfils some kind of social or personal need not being met elsewhere, eg a substitute family where there were conflicts before.

The first doesn't really 'get' BKism at all ... they just see a "holy person" and respond. The second might get BKism is a bit weird/odd/dubious at some higher ijtellectual level but be over ruled by their lower emotional needs (included in them, I'd add Dadi worshippers).

Your categorisation of those who have donated all of their property and cannot leave because of financial reasons is a good one and, I think, stands alone. These are individuals who have seen through BKism, for whom the charade has crumbled, but are just stuck with nowhere else to go, no way to get back their investment, and too weak or weakened to remake another life. Some have tried to get their properties back and failed ... the BKs come up with a 'gotcha' line about how you can get back a donation from a charity (presumably because they have already claimed tax relief for it and do not want to repay it too).

The young girls who leave their families - who are forced to pay during their training and surrender their dowries - and are moved away by the BKs are another tragedy. What will come of them? Few to no one would want to marry them, apart from running a cult what skills or training do they receive? Many are beyond child bearing age. Yes, amongst them might be those lacking courage but also those just plain and simply wanting to get back for what they gave when they were young.

Now the last category, your second, is much more clear ... those who knows the truth behind BK but still continue to be in BK because they are part of leadership who get advantages of cult. It's a very small percentage indeed. I'd say probably less than 100 people ... a few tens even.

Then I think there is a second division of middle management who look up and aspire to become one of them but are still caught up in the brainwash and just too busy to stop and think. They can afford to question as their entire world would fall to pieces if they did.

A classical view of cult followers in the West, from sociologists, is that individuals join cults and adopt a ready-made 'cult persona' to act as a mask ... whilst they heal/work on/avoid other personal problem they might have.

I am not so sure that theory applies to Indians and the BKWSU.

My question ... do Indians join the BKWSU to make them feel superior, eg to escape or rise up the caste system?

Do they really believe they are superior "Brahmins", superior to impure Shudra Hindus, and is that a motivation for them?
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AntiBrahmakumaris

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post02 May 2015

I don't mean to be trite ... but is not that 5 kinds of people?

Yes, but I wanted to categorize them into 2 as the one who don't know that BK is a cult and the second one who know that BK is a cult.

Second category has subtypes.

I would like to say that people become BK mostly because of family beliefs. Yes, I am saying is true, because those children whose parents are BK continuously brainwash themselves under parental guidance. Those children when grow up marry into other families and brainwash new family members too. Then again, their children get brainwashed.

Some people in this cycle are seriously brainwashed that they leave their family and become celibate BK, while moderate BKs keep on infecting others when living inside a family. I have seen this cycle many a times.

Another method is AASTHA TV channel/Awakening with Brahmakumaris. It also plays important role in marketing BKism. Many old people join BK when their death is near in the hope that they will have better afterlife. But after death virus of BKism remains in their successors.

There is one lawyer in my area who have joined many cult groups like BK, ISKCON, Art of living and probably Happy Thoughts (I don't know whether happy thoughts is a cult or not). The reason for his joining these is he gets a lot of clients from these groups.

Cult group acts as communities or clubs which is a way to connect with the people and hence good for his business.
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ex-l

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post03 May 2015

AntiBrahmakumaris wrote:I would like to say that people become BK mostly because of family beliefs.

Yes, I read some fairly scientific research of the BKs and that is what it said.

New 'outsider' recruits were rare, VIPs ... the rich and powerful ... even moreso.

Which beggars the question why the BKs spend so much chasing them?
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AntiBrahmakumaris

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post03 May 2015

Which beggars the question why the BKs spend so much chasing them?

what does this mean ?
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Free Speech

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post04 May 2015

ex-l wrote:My question ... do Indians join the BKWSU to make them feel superior, eg to escape or rise up the caste system?

They might not be joining to get that feeling but attracted by PR events & the promise to meet God attracts most. No doubt, they get another caste within the organisation apart from their real cast according to the family they belong to. Indian BKs include people from all 4 castes of Hindu & other religions too. While Brahmins would not mind being re-tagged as Brahmin but a Shudra, Vaishya or Kshatriya would feel proud, after becoming BK, to get that status & recognized as per the norms of BKism.

But its the split personal identification which would work for them. For example, do BKs caste their votes? Check that mark to know. Majority of Indians caste their votes according to their cast which should match with that of leader, no matter how big criminal he had been in past (Rapists & Murderers often turn out to be politicians in India. Mass killer are superhit here. Lets not talk about India's PM & Gujrat 2002 riots). Do BKs (belonging to castes other than Brahmin) take advantage of reservation in jobs, promotions, etc etc?

If they do, it means that they are nothing more than cheap spiritual folks who wish to get benefit of both sides - BK world & non-BK world. Foolish hypocrites.

Do they really believe they are superior "Brahmins", superior to impure Shudra Hindus, and is that a motivation for them?

Yes, most BKs I met live in their foolish paradise & call themselves real Brahmins. Their reasoning comes from stupid theory of Lekhraj, "I am Brahma & you become Brahmins after listening my words- coming from my mouth."
Why do I feel sometimes that Lekhraj was biggest idiot recorded in history ever?

You should have asked : Do they believe themselves superior than Brahmins of actual Hinduism?

Many other factors act as motivation for Indian BKs. I consider their " Divided vision" to see themselves as unique (sweet child of Baba) person, who will get birth in Satyug & that they are the selected one + the vision to stand in front of the mightiest personality with a faith that he does not know me, my Gyan & is merely a worldly person waiting for his destruction - gives them required motivation.

Also most BKs I met are very weak emotionally when it comes to dealing with their worldly matters. Some are extremely active or so hyperactive that they were forced by their own families to join BKism to control their emotions.
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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post04 May 2015

ex-l : Which beggars the question why the BKs spend so much chasing them?

To get more. If cult doesn't grow, it dies. What are they going to do 24*7? Recruiting more newcomers through VIP's chasing & telecasting activities is better than idling & getting sheaths of fat on their body. One should know that BKism has spread across only 120 countries. 195 (or 196) - 120 = 75( or 76) countries still left. Their goal is to spread throughout the world. Am I wrong?

AntiBrahmakumaris: Another method is AASTHA TV channel/Awakening with Brahmakumaris. It also plays important role in marketing BKism.

Yes, that works well in India, mainly for educated intellectual folks. Recently, they added another cartoon to their show other than the party-goer turned Sadhvi Mrs. Shivani (in one interview she told about how she was in her college days).

They say he is psychologist but to me, he appears to be a big psycho doing girls talks rather than discussing his subjects. Indeed he must have got a new line of patients by now. The increase in VIP contact soul on this show indicates that it will soon become Indian version of Oprah Winfreys.

Is there any qualification required to be a contact soul other than being famous? Porn star cum Bollywood actress Sunny Leone was most searched celebrity in 2014 (according to Indian net statistics). So, does she stand a chance to become a contact soul on Awakening with Brahmakumaris show? She already had many other 'contacts'.

The best part of this show is that Shivani & the host never talk directly about BKism core beliefs but just loop around usual mental talks deceiving a greater ratio of population who is yet to be deceived.

BKs should take it as a strong hint. Why Shivani & likes do not disclose inner BKist beliefs on TV? Do they fear Mango man or public? Surely, they do not have courage to say it openly. Have you ever heard Shivani on TV saying that Lekhraj Kirpalani is a Brahma & he channelized Shiva & that the Lekhraj's mistress who are called Dadis now are Goddesses with respective name.

I did not hear it ever or did I miss some episodes of her programme. Perhaps such statement would cause another Nepal like Earthquake in Rajasthan except this time, it would be by public not nature.
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ex-l

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post04 May 2015

Free Speech wrote:Is there any qualification required to be a contact soul other than being famous? Porn star cum Bollywood actress Sunny Leone was most searched celebrity in 2014 (according to Indian net statistics). So, does she stand a chance to become a contact soul on Awakening with Brahmakumaris show?

Whew ... big question. Is the thought of "serving" Sunny Leone just too much for all Brahma Kumars' stages? Their Bsba has encouraged them to "serve the prostitutes" in the Murlis.

I found no search results to suggest they had ... but did come up with a very confused Twitter account for onr Brahmakumari Nitu. (NSFW). Perhaps it is a hacked account?

Individuals such as Sunny Leone, aka 'Karenjit Kaur Vohra' pose a sort of problem for the BKs, expressing their sexuality so freely, yet not turning into an evil monster overnight ...
Leone does her best to maintain a link to Sikh traditions, even if more in theory than in practice. But she's unlikely to disavow her career path due to religion".

Leone said, "Girls will leave the [porn] industry claiming that they found God. Well, the fact is, God has always been with them the entire time".

Oh God, I better not post that ... the BKs will put her on their hit list now. But are they ready to swallow, that what she does is female empowerment? My guess is they would see her as a very impure soul ... a "first birth-er" having her Golden Age at the Fag End of the World.

Here's a joke for you ...
    What do Sunny Leone and BK senior Sisters have in common?
    They both believe women should be on top.
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Free Speech

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post04 May 2015

ex-l wrote:They both believe women should be on top.

There is one more similarity. The one at bottom could also, most probably, be a woman ( Indore hostel case ...).
But are they ready to swallow, that what she(Sunny Leone) does is female empowerment?

Yeah ... in fact earlier, she used to shoot movies either with girls or with her husband. Not with any other man. She is thus a celibate with respect to other guys. There are many traits of her that could make her a hit within BKWSO. But that seems possible, may be, after few decades when she would decide to join BKism herself given that BKWSO norms become more modern & open.

I think BKWSO has already allowed BKs to marry. Moreover, special instructions are given regarding marriage & similar relationship.

Recently, I did a personality development course at this institute. I did not expect a BK instructor there. He was half gay as was apparent through his gestures & way of indulging in talks. Worse thing is that he was taking personality development classes, doing more damage to his students through his weird demonstrations (& facial expressions + vocal expressions). He seemed to be a regular visitor to Mount Abu. Several time he talked about that place with special mention to Brahmakumaris & loopy roads around Abu.

He is unmarried (& a regular viewer of Awakening with Brahmakumaris). Marriage mustn't be a necessity for him & BK beliefs had further emboldened it. He seemed extremely emotionally disturbed person. I knew the reason behind it. His mental manipulation as taught in BKism like what other guy is thinking about him or how can he please others or how he, a pure Brahmin, can control his students.

Forgot to mention ... he was also closely associated to management of this institute & thus several BK type instructions were given to everyone. First, boy & girl should not be found talking to each other. If ever spotted on CCTV, they would be permanently expelled. Second, if you are husband-wife, you need to keep all sort of affection out before stepping in to the institute. Even if one of them is found trying to contact the other one, both would be expelled permanently. And many more rules.

Once he even announced while discussing some breaking-Baba type crime that soon one would see him in a preacher form opening his own center. An unmarried aged person + being a BK follower = future servant at Mt. Abu or other centers.

It's not related to ongoing discussion. Ignore these few posts of mine.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post05 May 2015

Free Speech wrote:They might not be joining to get that feeling but attracted by PR events & the promise to meet God attracts most

One major difference between Hindu theism and Western monotheism is that in hindustani religions, there is almost infinite possibilities of ”finding god” in many ways, or God manifesting to ”the genuine seeker”, indirectly or directly, in one form or another. So the ability to accept BK version is quite easy if a Hindu wants to. For a Hindu it can be justified as an evolutionary progress to come to BK understandings, after all, that’s what the teaching spend much time doing, de- and re- constructing.

For a westerner, BKism is a ”revolutionary” idea growing out of anti-materialism and distaste for (usually) Christian preposterousness that narrows down how one finds god; either by being born jewish - one of the chosen, if a gentile by accepting christ as saviour etc, or accepting Koran and the revelation to Mohammed.

Becoming a BK is repudiation of the Western tradition but it contains enough that it has borrowed from Western monotheism to fulfil the Western mind’s archetypal paradigms. Unfortunately, Western BKs leave the scepticism with which they adjudged Western religions at the door with their shoes, so eager are they to identify as ”individuals” different to their parents, to identify with ‘cool' eastern meditation and, cough splutter, practice ”Ancient Raj Yoga”. The same skill in ignoring the positives of their own traditions are employed to ignore the negatives of their new-found faith.

Also most BKs I met are very weak emotionally when it comes to dealing with their worldly matters.
To want to become a BK or to go to a course or a program implies something is wanting. That something can be any combination of things, emotional, philosophical, psychological, sociological ...
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Free Speech

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Re: What is the ratio ?

Post05 May 2015

Sunny Leone has topped the list of Most Desirable Woman 2014 published in today's Times Of India magazine. Total votes = 20.3 lacs approx (>2*9 lac Satyug souls). BKWSO must have started thinking about her role in drama by now.

Pink Panther : So the ability to accept BK version is quite easy if a Hindu wants to. For a Hindu it can be justified as an evolutionary progress to come to BK understandings, after all, that’s what the teaching spend much time doing, de- and re- constructing.

That's right to an extent. The other side is that most Hindu families don't dwell deeply into core faith of their religion. It all starts with worshiping images, singing bhajans, diong kirtans, public gathering for "Ramayana recital" or " Gitapaath" & then back to daily business. No one has to care for God for more than 1/2 hour per day.

This gives an opportunity & and edge to BKism over traditional Hinduism as they practise in well organised cultist manner. There is whole Hinduism theory available too. Its time cycle is probably larger than lacs of years. But hardly a Hindu would pay heed to all such things. Who has got time to learn that now-so-useless stuff. Hence, most Hindus join Bkism & find their theory exciting.

Plus the Yoga that BKs teach is also not Patanjali Yoga. These days gym instructors, without any understanding, have also started taking Yoga sessions. So, one can understand what could be its level in India or anywhere else. Amidst unawareness, people don't mind who teaches what. That's why BKism prospers.

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