Marriage in jeopardy

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V78

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Marriage in jeopardy

Post14 Aug 2015

My wife has been a with BK since her late teens as she was introduced into BK by her mother.

We started dating around 7 yrs ago and had a intimate relationship during that period she was eating food from outside with no restrictions we were in close physical relationship although she never agreed for sex before marriage. She also told me she stopped eating non vegetarian food and alcohol a little while before we met.

During our dating period she used to go into meditation and stuff even even took me to centre but I never liked it so I stopped going. during that period she mentioned to me a young couple who was married but were living like Brother and Sister or celibacy I completely dismissed that concept. weeks before our marriage she told me to leave a celibate marriage which I again said I don't believe in and nor in BK then she told me she talked with her Father who clarified that is for the Sisters who are committed to centre.

We got married around 4 years ago but had to live on different states due to job demands although I used to come to live with her around 10 days every month. As time passed by she stopped eating food from outside . We had sex with condoms but she started complaining of pain. then she started complaining of stress of work etc to avoid sex.in the meantime she once went to Mt Abu by lying to me and her frequency of going centers kept on increasing. She also started reading more and more of Murlis also watching lot of BK videos/ Sister shivani videos etc. she even once mentioned to me she did not like kissing and sex is punishment although she later backtracked on these statements.

I was indeed shocked asked her to stop Oral contraceptive pills as they can decrease libido. I became angry and frustrated started shouting at her also blaming her involvement with BK. Slowly and slowly we literally started sleeping like strangers on bed . We did had sex because of my insistence but I just felt she was bodily involved but not emotionally. At one point she was very much into oral physical relationship with me before marriage so I just noticed a very drastic changes.

I offered her to got to a doctor and seek counselling which she refused. I called her parents Ina ber told them everything but our relationship kept on falling apart. A few months ago she went to a doctor she got jelly and we had sex as we were planning for kids but still I felt She is only bodily involved .

She told me all this is becoz I failed to support her emotionally during that period and all I wanted was lust or my bodily pleasure and had I told her I can wait for sex till she is ready and accepted her May be she would have done it on her own.

That may be the case but it still does not explain complete food habits or even touching each other kissing etc especially once when she was very actively into it.

I have asked her multiple times very politely and humanely to pls let me know if it has something to do with her BK which she completely denies telling celibacy is for people who live at centers.

Now our marriage is at literally on verge of seperation. her parents want us to live together for 3-6 months. my wife is assuring she will fulfill all obligations of wife . but she will continue her a BK meditation and food habits but I'd we try to go outside she will try to eat from outside too. I asked her as a compromise she can continue her meditation and food habits but should not go to centers or listen to new internet videos or material Of BK which she refused.she even asked we can go together at BK centers and also mentioned they have child care units at Mt abu etc.

I am at crossroads as I really love her. I have a faint hope if we start afresh things may turn around but if I leave her she will be fully immerse into BK.

I have written a very long post as I am going through lot of mental trauma. I will really appreciate if you all can give me way out to handle this.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Aug 2015

The BKs will encourage people to maintain a marriage, even to ”allow” sex in certain circumstances, especially if it will keep donations flowing and the BK person involved, but if they think there is a threat to the cash flow or the person’s involvement they will encourage separation physically and emotionally, even divorce.

As she has been indoctrinated from a young age with a teaching that says sex is the lowest activity, to be avoided at all costs, I am surprised she had sex with you at all!

That she is acting this way already whilst still in her physical/sexual prime and before childbirth has reduced libido, my suggestion is (and I do not say this lightly) if you want a full, intimate and joyful life partner, then seek separation or divorce now and find someone else, while you still do not have children. Once you have children there is an obligation to them.

Before children you are both individuals whose decisions to stay together or to separate seriously affects no-one but yourselves - once there is an innocent dependant person, a child, it is more difficult.
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jann

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Aug 2015

I remember a post for her, here.
Osho wrote:Prem Hari,

You need not do anything. Let her have her own way. You can see the nonsense that she is falling into, but that is her freedom, and one learns only by experience. If you try to pull her out she will not be able to live her experience totally.

In the first place it will be almost impossible for you to pull her out because mind functions in a very different way. Your very effort will push her deeper into the mire. And a husband particularly is the last person to transform a wife or convert a wife - impossible. Wives can convert husbands very easily, but husbands have never been known to convert wives. A wife can nag you - she knows the art, that is part of her feminineness. She will torture you in such subtle ways that finally you have to give in. It is very difficult to find a husband who is not henpecked.

All husbands are bound to be henpecked. If somebody is not henpecked that simply means that he is not a husband. He may be somebody else but he is not a husband. And every husband knows it and every wife knows it. But wives are very clever. They go on giving the sense to the husband that he is the master, and deep down they know who is the master, so what is wrong in it, let him pretend. So he can go and walk in the streets and in the factories and in the offices as if he is the master! The wife gives him enough rope. But remember, it is a rope and the wife keeps the other end in her hand. Enough rope she gives - go on pretending - but she is the real master.

So if your wife was trying to get you out of the hold of these so-called Prajapita Brahma and their Brahma Kumaris then it would have been very easy. But it will be almost impossible for you. And I think it is a good chance to get rid of her. Don't miss the opportunity. People are so foolish. When opportunity knocks on the door they complain about the noise!

It is such a good opportunity, such a golden opportunity for you. You are out of the mousetrap. Why do you want to get into the mousetrap again? Let her do her own thing. She will learn by bitter experience. I know these fools because I have been visiting Mount Abu for almost twenty years.

India has given birth to two of the most stupid religious movements. One is Hare Krishna - that has become worldwide. The other is these Brahma Kumaris, it has not reached the whole world, it has remained confined to India. They talk utter nonsense, and they talk with authority. And they go on saying everything.

This date that you mention that in 1987 this world will end... This date has changed many times in thirty years, and it will change again. But fools are fools. '87 is not far away, only seven years. And you will see that in '87 it will become something else - '97 or 2000 will be exact, the right time.

It goes on, it goes on changing. And people are so foolish, they go on believing. ...

Your wife has gone into some stupid ideology. It is good riddance. Forget her. She will come to her senses if you don't try to force her. And the world is not going to end, because everybody is aware that now war has become meaningless. The whole meaning of war is in getting victorious. Now nobody can be the victor. The days of war are over, the days of love are coming. And this world is not going to end, but certainly it is going to go through a tremendous change, a radical transformation.

I am preparing you for that radical transformation. I want you to be the future of humanity. And of course, you are worried about her ideal of purity.

Indians have very strange ideas about purity. They have suffered much because of that. The whole country lives with such deep suppression, with such deep unnaturalness that everybody is miserable, everybody is sad and serious ... Indians have a strange idea of spirituality. Their whole mind is sexual and they talk of purity in the sense of no sexuality - to drop sexuality is to be pure. Then only amoebas are pure ...

You cannot be pure because you are born out of sexuality in the first place. How can you be pure? You cannot change your birth, it has already happened. You came out of your mother and Father's sexuality. Half the cells of your body belong to your Father, and half the cells belong to your mother. They are sexual, those cells are sexual. Hence each man carries within him a woman - his mother. And each woman carries a man within her - her Father. And now psychologists have come to a certain insight into it.

So, Prem Hari, it is good. Thank these Brahma Kumaris of Mount Abu - they have been of tremendous help to you ... Don't be bothered at all. Let her try her own way; and everybody has the freedom to do whatsoever he likes, she likes. Don't interfere. You be on your path and let her seek her own path. She will come sooner or later because nobody is so foolish as to remain trapped into something ridiculous. But it helps many people at least to get rid of their absurd ideas.

In this world everything has a purpose. There are so many fools - that's why there are so many foolish philosophies. Wherever there is a demand there is going to be a supply. So your wife must have needed something like that
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Aug 2015

Hello V78.

Your post is welcome, we are here to listen and help as best as we can.

Unfortunately, yours is not the first of such cases and will not be the last. Indeed, it has been repeated 1,000s of times over the last 70 years.

To put it simply, it is what the Brahma Kumaris do.

And, to be insensitively blunt; you have been conned, you are being conned, and you will be conned.

That is what the Brahma Kumaris do.

I am very sorry to read of your case as it appears even more tragic than most, and I am sure that the young women is also in a state of confusion too because of the BK spinsters' encouragement and advice; and the false and misleading beliefs promoted by the leaders.

I am starting to call Brahma Kumarism "the mother's curse" onto young daughters.

How can we help you on the basis of our internal knowledge of the BKWSU and previous experience?

Firstly, I would like to say that it is likely much of the charade you are being fed about sex is being directly encouraged as "yuktis" or excuses by the BK center. Don't start by trying to understand all this from a logical, worldly point of view, you are wasting your time.

What you are mentioning is 'typical' Brahma Kumari attitudes and tactics, e.g. weaning husbands off sex and turning them into a BK servant, lying back like a corpse and allowing the husband to "have his lust" if he will not, physical complaints etc. I would gamble that oral contraception has ZERO to do with the problem, it is all mental and its roots are in the BK teachings.

To a degree, you have to start by learning what they are and how anti-sex, anti-human love and attachment, anti-family, anti-children and so on.

The BKs want the total surrender and sacrifice of their adherents to the cult; mind, body and wealth. Children and relationships are seen as "bondages" and obstacles. Non-BKs as shudras or devils.

Having seen this time and time again, I tend now just to deliver the bad news to such victims as yourself.

And that is, consider your wife lost and do everything you can to protect your wealth and property otherwise the greedy Brahma Kumari cult will get their hands on everything.

Extract yourself, otherwise they will try and get their hands on as much of you as possible, "serving" your wife and her centre with your time, energy and money.

Sadly, doctors and counselors are of little help. The BKs have already seeded her mind with thoughts that they are ignorant, "body-conscious", un-self-realised devils and the enemy of BKism.

The problem is BKism but unless she want out herself, there is little to nothing you can do which will not make things worse. Even if you point out the flaws, the errors, the impossible aspects, the false predictions and inconsistencies, experience tells us it has little effect. The BKs prepare their adherents against such logical approaches.

Unfortunately, your great error was in separating yourselves and leaving her entirely to the influence of her mother and the cult. This was the same error that the original Sindhi Bhaibunds make 70 or more years ago and how the founder Lekhraj Kirpalani was able to hook them.

If you think there is any hope left, the starting point would be to distance and separate her from the cult, and her mother. That would mean blocking telephones and emails because even if she physically separates herself, they will pursue her daily with texts and so on.

Forget planning or having children with her. Even if you were able to, all you would be doing in handing them to the BKWSU as well and burdening her with more guilt and shame within the BK cult as her spiritual status would be lowered.

To explain more, you are going to have to learn more about the BK beliefs and teachings. We can explain them to you if you want, however, we do not promote or support them.


From a BK point of view, either she is a little confused or she is lying to you.

All BKs are expected to be celibate not just centre wassis, it is the number one condition.

I think all the stuff about "failing to support her emotionally" is a little bit manipulative if she means supporting her to be a BK ... unless she is referring to the matter of you being away from her 3 weeks of the month during your "Honeymoon Period".

I think this was a great mistake and you may only have yourself to blame. Why did you do so? Did you leave her at home with her mother?

Like they say, "empty hands are the devil's workshop". ***

The food habits is also a BK requirement. BKs are only allowed to eat food cooked by themselves or other BKs and offered to their god spirit.

Mixed sex touching is also forbidden.

Soon you will be in separate beds, and then separate bedrooms, and then you will be financially supporting her to work full-time recruiting new BKs. That is the way it goes.


Can you tell us a little bit more about the parents?

The Father is also technically wrong and not full or clear in his knowledge of BKism. As I have stated, *ALL* BKs single or married, centre or living at home are expected to be celibate. That is the law. If you are not, you are not a proper BK and the Murlis are very critical of you.

Is the family relatively wealthy?

This is typical. If the family is middle class or above and has money, the BKs will not press them hard. They will keep them sweet and close, and milk them for whatever they can. They will not expose the hard edge of BKism until one of them is hooked and then they will conspire against other members.

In her case though, the parents are not proper BKs. Strictly speaking, they would be considered at a low level of spirituality by the BKs. No pukka BKs would dream of marrying their daughter off, nor encouraging sex and children. It is the opposite of BKism.

Sometimes mothers do push daughters into becoming BKs out of their own frustrations, unhappinesses with their own marriage and sex life, and lack of fulfilment. It might be helpful to examine their relationship.

Is your wife fully independent yet or is she still under the mother's influence?

You wife's previous enjoyment of physical intimacy suggests she is not completely under their influence and has normal desires.

Somehow, you need to get BKism out of her mind and make her start to disbelieve it. I am not hopeful in her case unless she starts to to do so. The best case scenario at present is that you will just end up with damaged kids in an unhappy marriage and increasing frustration between you unless she divorces you and takes half your money or a property which she will give to the BKs.

Somehow she has to be helped to see through the lies and manipulations the BKs having been using for decades to control people.

We can help you on that.

Beware, BKism is like a psychically addictive drug to those hooked by it and you are right about needing a total separation.

Beware that the BK leaders habitually will be guiding and encourage her to try and hook you, and all this talk about lovelessly "fulfilling obligations" like a robot, taking you to centres to hook you and child care units is typical of that.

Beware, you are being fooled by highly experienced individuals behind the scenes who have done this many, many times before. It is what they are trained to do. It is so clear to us as we have read and heard the exact same things so many times before.

I believe you love you, so give it once last chance.

Can you work or take her away overseas and away from all BK contacts? What was it she used to love doing the most before BKism?

And, lastly, please curse her mother back for getting her into this mess in the first place. She has been extremely irresponsible. But I fear she is being manipulated by the BKs ... especially if she has disposable wealth to donate to them.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Aug 2015

Pink Panther wrote:As she has been indoctrinated from a young age with a teaching that says sex is the lowest activity, to be avoided at all costs, I am surprised she had sex with you at all!

Good point.

The fact that she did, with enjoyment, suggested to me that there is some hope.

She needs to be encouraged and supported to know that life free of BKism, and her mother if necessary, is possible and that BKism is not the high minded, eternally important religion it claims to be.

This goes back to what I was writing about learning more about BKism in order to challenge it. Right now, you probably don't know how crazy, stupid and anti-sex ... but fanatical ... BKism is.

Sex is poison to BKs. "Sex lust" is sword. "Sex is worse than murder" is an exact quote. And this is what her mind is being pumped full of every day she sits listening to or reading Murli.
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Aug 2015

Both of us and her parents are highly educated. The reason we were in different states was because of further studies pursuing careers and had visa issues due to which we had to stay apart although I used to come every 2 weeks for 10-12 days.

There is no doubt that distance ultimately doomed our relationship as she got sucked more into it. She is financially independent and both of us are stable from that point. Her parents are financially well off but I do not know regarding their donations to BK. Her mother is hardcore BK but I have seen Father eating food from outside and sometimes even tells me that he does not takes her wife everywhere because of her hard beliefs. When the Father got to know of our problems, he scolded her and even explained to her that she needs to fulfill all her marital obligations. And, per my wife, which she says time and again that celibacy is only for people living at centre.

In other words, either she herself is confused, lying or trying to con me.

While having sex, she told me it is a very painful experience and after a certain point I started getting more angry criticizing in her and BK lifestyle. I do feel if I was more gentle things may have been different, although I was patient for over a year. I also suggested to her to go to a doctor or counsellor which she never did although she is highly educated but never went to seek medical help.

A few months ago, she told me her doctor suggested to use lubricating jelly while having sex and dilators as she told them of pain while having sex although she never told me intricate details. We tried unprotected sex as we wanted to have a baby but I still felt she was only physically involved in act and not emotionally or mentally.

I even showed her Murlis in which the similar things have been mentioned and also forwarded her links similar experience people had shared on this forum.

Things have been collapsing as I noticed she is not all attached to me and is just using me to get the things done.

Moving forward, she is not willing to leave BK in any shape or form whatsoever but offering to give this relationship a try for another 3- 6 months in which she will fulfill her duties as a normal wife BUT she will be doing her BK stuff meditation, video etc.

I am in dilemma, if she had vaginismus (involuntary contraction of muscles during sex) due to fear anxiety it is psychogenic common in females but the biggest problem is she is completely denying it that it has anything to do with BK teachings.

And Mr ex-l, I was waiting to hear for you since I wrote my post so my sincere heart felt thanks to whatever you guys are doing to guide this people away from this cult.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post16 Aug 2015

V78 wrote:She is financially independent ... Her parents are financially well off but I do not know regarding their donations to BK.


And there is the crux of the issue. She has money. They have money. Where there is money, rules can and will be bent. The Brahma Kumaris have little to no income of their own and have established specific centres and evangelistic strategies to target the wealthy and upper middle classes.

What is fed to them (the wealthy) is entirely different to what is fed to the poor or villagers and I can tell you 100%, there is no such "centre only rule" as regards sex. Indeed, before joining a centre, an adherent would be expected to have been celibate for at least 6 months or a year.

Basically, my guess would be the dynamic exists something like this ...

The mother is brainwashed and is pushing the daughter to confirm her own investment in their beliefs - which we should discuss. She will most certainly be funnelling the Father's/family's wealth into the Brahma Kumaris ("service by money" or "earning a high status" the BKs call it) and will increasingly do so.

The Father is not a BK but just an ordinary Hindu and does not really conceive of the strict differences between BKism and Hinduism. He does not believe in it but just sees it as "one path out of many" (the BKs are clear it is the only path and all other religions are ignorant, deluded and of little to no benefit). He is sensibly considering his daughters old age etc and pushing his daughter to marry, probably against the mother's wishes as she will not the Brahma Kumaris real teachings.

BKs think people like the Father are basically stupid (unelightened or as they say "body-conscious") and you devilish. Both of you are full of Maya, somewhere between obstructive and dangerous but manipulatable in order to "serviceable", whereas they only are clear sighted and self-realised.

If the young women has been hooked by BKism and is making social connections with other BK Sisters, she will be mortified that she is expected to sex and produce a child. It is the antithesis of BKism ... the destruction of her eternal fortune (literally) ... the worst distraction from their god and earning a high status in the Golden Age heaven ... utterly shameful and impure etc.

Indeed, it is worse because other BKs will not even eat the food she cooks because she is "impure", therefore she is basically, at one time, trapped by them but outcast by them.

She is basically being forced to have sex and procreate in order to keep her Father - the source of the money - happy and serviceable, and with the hope to hook you into being "serviceable" - support her and them financially - in the future.

BKism is all about the money. Study the economics of their religion.

I was say her current sexual expression is 100% to do with her indoctrination into BKism and she is lying to hide this. We can show you the quotes to support this.

Unless you like having sex with a robot who is desperately crying out to their Baba to save them as you make love to them - and sees you as a devil - then I would not recommend it. And, remember, I am writing partly from my own experiences of being indoctrinated ... the meditation practise separates your mind and emotions from your body. It makes it feel distant and separate. And their constant indoctrination is into how impure and degraded it is.

Now, what can be done? How to restart her rational mind?

As Pink Panther has written in other topics, BKism appeals to individuals on an emotional level completely defying the rational or intellectual level. Indeed, perfectly intellectual or rational individuals have wondered afterwards how on earth they were hooked by them.

I suggest this happens on two levels; firstly, on a psychic level ... some unusual exchange of group or personal energy or charisma and then, secondly, on a social level.

The BKs are like the cuckoo bird who throws the other chicks out of the parents' nest in order to occupy alone and in order to to be fed.

They present themselves as "the truth family" whereas the individual's real family is false or the enemy.

They remove all other channels of influence, as many as possible, e.g. not eating with non-BKs, not going out with non-BKs, not reading non-BK material (newspapers, books and magazines) etc, not having relationships, not having sex etc etc. In short, bit by bit, as far as they can, they separate the individual from every other influence except for themselves (via their god spirit).

And then they exploit them for whatever they can; if it's money, it's money; if it's time, energy and free labour, it's that; if it's useful connections, then just that. They are masters and mistresses of a 1,000s strategies to promote other themselves. They do very little to no good for society at all. It is all about social climbing for them.

If she is educated, how can she square her understanding of the world with BKism? For example, dinosaurs existing 2,500 years ago ... a 5,000 molecularly identically repeating cycle of time which would even require light to travel backwards to work, and so on. WE can give you more examples.

Is it possible to re-invigorate her rational mind?

One thing I would say is, in order for their to be any hope, YOU NEED TO SEPARATE HER FROM HER MOTHER!

Even if your love affair is doomed, try this in order to save her from wasting years of her life and her career as a slave to old parasites. Give it a few weeks or months and get the Father's cooperation, e.g. in stopping the mother harass her over BKism.

I am suspecting that the mother is less rational and less fulfilled in her own life. She needs to stop influencing and living through her daughter and poisoning her mind.

If you are willing to give this a last try, then let's discuss your knowledge of actually BK beliefs. We can tell you what they are and provide all the evidence you require, without you need to subject yourself to the hypnosis and psychic influences.

It may be useful to know and be able to quote actual BK source teachings to challenge her and her mother's deception. We have copies of the Murlis you can have.

Removing her away from the mother and local centre is a good idea. I would not put any emphasis on sex because that will destroy things at this point.

Do not under any circumstances consider producing children at this point. Do not considered it until she is absolutely out of and refutes BKism ... if that is possible.

We can tell you the truth about BKism, the bullsh** the BKs will come out with, and how to counter it.

But, be warned, they are very, very tenacious as their welfare literally depends on refreshing their centres with new adherents and they are constantly morphing in order gain new ones.

I hope this helps.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post16 Aug 2015

While having sex, she told me it is a very painful experience

That would be the case if it is unwanted. It need not be anything physical - you have had healthy satisfying experiences before after all, nor need it be anything psychologically pathological. Merely a mindset ‘tolerating’ something so physically delicate & sensitive but doing it against one’s own preferences would create all kinds of physiological responses (or non-responses).

Status-anxiety is a human disease but far more prevalent in Hindu culture than almost anywhere else. The mother is probably made to feel important by the BKs. A key way of keeping donors feeling valued and important may be giving time and privileges they don’t give others, letting them think they are ”insiders” and more worthy than others - maybe by their being allowed some input into decision making or even how their donation is to be spent.

If she has no other outlet, no profession etc ("the idle mind is the devil’s workshop”), then getting respected by her BK peers & Seniors is very important to her. The trade-off for that respect is she has to ”do service” - and you can imagine BK women sitting and talking about how to bring daughter (and assets - and you are one) "closer to Baba”. You can imagine them comparing one young married woman’s situation with another's, in competition for "approval" by the centre in charge.

I'll ask you a question V78 - call it a secular spiritual question. Are you building castles in the sky, imagining a future that has no solid foundation?

Given there is no other reason for you to stay with her other than ”love” - is it really ”love” for her, or is she merely the one who happened to accept and reciprocate your love at a certain point in time?

You’d be aware how underneath our civilised veneer we are all biological & psychological beings, social customs and manners are tawdry "coverings" of basic drives. Was her reciprocation of your love more an example of her instinct to find security and for procreation (she may be - almost unconsciously - using you as a sperm donor and protector), i.e. could she have just as easily married someone else if they turned up at the right time? Are you the "fall guy”?

Unfortunately that scenario is all too common even in general society, hormones speak the language of romantic ”love” to get their way. When the romance dies, then what? A question all marriages face.

When you have both stopped "projecting" your ideals on each other and you have to live with the real person, warts and all, will that really be the person (you thought) you married?

Through history, marriage has often been merely a socio-economic unit, but far less so in the modern world, we expect ”healthy relationships” where each partner enables the other to fulfil their potential in all ways. But ”socio-economic unit" is exactly what the BKs aim to degrade marriages to to for any that come under their influence.

If you expect your marriage to become more ”we” than ”you and me” - in all things, including finances - then being married to a BK is not going to allow that. Sorry.

Their basic teaching to married followers is ”keep Baba in between” - i.e. you have not only married her and into each others’s families and all the baggage that goes with that but, in this case, you have married her religious beliefs which, in the case of BKs, is dominating, her god is in her head and in your bed - you are a at best a distraction, more likely you will increasingly be ”the obstacle" to be dealt with and worked around - to the point of pushing you out of the way completely if you don’t fit.

I emphasise again the importance to make the right decision before any children come onto the scene. If you split up now, you will both eventually get over it and move on in life, possibly even remain good friends. Once a child is born, you are 50% responsible and the rest of your life is tied to the child, but also to your BK wife (or ex-wife), her mother, the BKs ...
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post16 Aug 2015

Thanks Ex-I and Pink Panther for your guidance. I just wished I had used this forum over a year ago.

My wife is financially independent. When all these issues came in open a while ago her Father talked with her to fulfil her marital obligations including physical intimacy/sexual duties. I even remember her Father few months ago shouted at her as she has not eaten sweets which he has send from India for both of us, so I totally agree with Ex-I her Father is not a BK in true sense. Her Father is involved in BK because of her mother. None of her parents support her financially.

She lives in different country than her mother for last several years and they talk which other over the phone and I am not there during their conversations. But as I analyze her behavior, I feel she used me as a protector rather than a husband to get her things and jobs done.

I even asked her that I want to talk with one of her teachers as she claims celibacy is only for people who go to centre and not the others. I will really appreciate if you can send me those Murlis which encourage celibacy between couples and children are obstacle for BKs as a last ditch effort if she can change her mind.

Dear Pink Panther, my wife is a highly successful professional female although she used me to reach to the level where she is. I have done a lot, and lot of stuff, for her that she refuses to acknowledge. I am perhaps building castles in sky imagining a future with no solid foundation.

The main reason I feel cheated is that before the marriage I clearly stated to her I am neither interested in BK nor BK philosophy, so she should have been honest then rather than 4 years down the road. It is upto speculation if she was confused lying or try to con me.

And I totally agree our marriage has been "you and me" from her side although I always treated as "we".

I just came back a little while ago and told her she has to leave BK completely if we have to start altogether. She told me she does not want to leave me will fulfil all her marital obligations. Her marital life will be her priority but again, the way things are, I do not know if to believe her.

I think we are literally at verge of divorce as only way I could move forward was if she was willing to take BK out from our lives which she is not agreeable. I see that is difficult for her as she is involved with them over 15 years now but at the same time I am not willing to invest more time into relationship and I am again sharing the same disappointment with myself my family and all of you few months down the road.

After reading the experience of other people on this forum and after whatever you all have written I just feel I was trapped and manipulated into all this with her aim of converting me into a BK and things are coming at this end because I did not get into this.

I do hope down the road with my experience and the good work being done by you all few more families will be saved or get some courage to face the BK tragedy.

I will wait for the Murlis from BK I so that I can forward her the same to show BK preaches celibacy for all.
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jann

friends or family of a BK

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post16 Aug 2015

Don't mind me putting up some BK quotations from Murlis.
“Here husband and wife give sorrow to each other, because they lead a vicious life after marriage. You are becoming worthy to go to Golden Age where vice never exists. Lust is the greatest enemy. The next is the anger. Lust makes you vicious. Here you have to win over your enemy-the vices.Until you have faith, you cannot overcome vices”.

“When a child grows up, his parents make him use the sword of lust. That action is also sinful”.

“A Kumari is pure but, after marriage, she becomes a worshipper, impure. She considers her husband to be her god and bows her head to him and lives like his slave. Therefore, Baba comes and frees you from slavery”.

“Daughters buzz this knowledge to their husband and bring him with them. She explains to him: You cannot go to heaven without becoming pure”.

“Explain to everyone very tactfully. Don’t discus these things with anyone, “nothing new” finish all questions and put a full stop”.

“When there is slight intoxication of familiarity or when there are insects of Maya inside, children don’t become worthy of serving”.

“You have no need to ask about them systems, become worthy, than ask”.

” A wife has a lot of attachment to her husband and children. It is the duty of you children to become free from that and become the conqueror of attachment”.

“You have wasted you whole life in battling and squirrelling”.

“First your family, than your friends become your enemy”

“You are unhappy here”

I will surrender myself to you. “Then surrender, yourself! Don’t just say it”.

“Check your stage in the mirror, “is my intellect removed from anyone else”?

“Remove the happiness of the old world from your intellect”.

“This old world doesn’t exist for you”.

“For as long as you have that body, you have to stay in Yoga, otherwise there will be punishment”.

“If you don’t follow Shrimat (BK God instructions) something will go wrong”.

“There is very severe punishment for those who become children and then divorce the Father”.

“To remember a corporal body is to be ghost conscious, because bodies are made of 5 elements is 5 evil spirits”.

“People don’t know anything, they are like dose who are uneducated, they are completely senseless buddhus”

“You children have no one, except the one, be very careful at that”.

'The intellect of those who are still working understand that all of it is for Baba. Otherwise how would the business of the Yagya continue”?

“Baba is not asking you to work hard, he does not make you stumble; he does not ask you to spent any money”.

“First promise to Baba, we will break all connections, and will have connection with you alone”

“You have conquered limited sleep to renounce sleep means you yourself become God”.

“If there is laziness then walk around”

'Your promise is: Mine is one ShivBaba and non other, so why do you remember someone else?'

'My body, my mind and my wealth are yours not mine.'

What is this bad odour? It is the bad odour of bodily relations and attachment to bodily possessions

'If carelessness still comes, then punish yourself, separate yourself from which you love the most, the task that you most enjoy”

'By following the dictates of your own mind you become decieved.
“By following your own directions the boat sinks”. “Destruction is just ahead”.

“It is your duty to beat your heart and make effort, don’t get involved in a household”.

“The people of the world are cheats”

“You have to remember this family otherwise your sin will not be absolved”

“If you take the support of bodily beings than you can not have a planning intellect “

“Are you above the bad odour of body consciousness”?

"My body, my mind and my wealth are yours not mine.

"I will sit wherever you make me sit, I will do whatever you ask me to do.

"My understanding is accurate everyone else is lost in misunderstanding."

“Without becoming BK’s you can not make your fortune”.

“Promise to Baba. One Baba and no one else”. To eat only with you, To speak only to you, to listen only to you.

“This promise to Baba is an eternal promise, you must not be disobedient in fulfilling this”.

“Do not become a lawyer and use in front of Baba the points that Dada himself has given you. So do not be clever in front of Baba”.

“Have you broken all relationships with others? Is there experience of having all relationships with the one? If there is still attachment or any kind of pull from anyone, then this proves that you are not experiencing all relationships and all achievements from Baba”.

“By practising to be body-less and having a close relationship with Baba now, the soul will be ever ready at the time of destruction”.

“No matter how mercy full the Father, the teacher, the sat-guru may be, yet when it is the final examination, it is not the code of conduct to be merciful”.

“Do nor mix your own idea’s with into Baba’s reply”.

“Those who don’t surrender themselves are unable to receive that much strength that is, they are unable to make the Father the trustee of their body, mind and wealth. Real children receive subtle help.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post17 Aug 2015

V78 wrote: I see that is difficult for her as she is involved with them over 15 years now but at the same time I am not willing to invest more time into relationship

15 years!!

I had the impression it was less. If her influence by BKs began at a young age and has gone on continuously for so long, it will be difficult for her and take a long time to change her mindset, possibly another 15 years of conscious effort to break away even if she wanted to. But she doesn’t want to break away. Warning. Warning.

And from what you said, she is using you for security, social standing and, when she feels like it, a child. The accusation that she has done that consciously is less easy to prove, but my experience seeing so many, not just BKs, is that what we do consciously is a rationalisation of unconscious energies. She wants security in this life from you, and security for eternity from her ”divine husband” - who’s marriage contract stipulates his dominance in this life too.

Unfortunately the ”divine husband” will win every time because, as an idea, he is perfect and won't ever disappoint the believer (and conveniently changes as the believer’s changes ). Whereas you, my dear chap, are a mere mortal, flawed and undeniably who you are, not just a figment of faith. She wants you to fit her beliefs in the same way, but unlike god, who becomes whatever someone thinks god is, you are autonomous.
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post17 Aug 2015

V78 wrote:My wife is financially independent ... She lives in different country than her mother for last several years ... she used me to reach to the level where she is.

OK, let's be blunt. There are answers here which might expose you, so do not answer them in public but consider them.

Do you think, perhaps, she used you to get out of India and go somewhere where she is paid better? For example, the BKs have made CONCERTED efforts to move Indian BK software and IT engineers from India to the USA.

They have even attempted to defraud US immigration to do so and, as part of "the deal", they get a large part of the adherents' salary. Some even give all of the salary to the centre and are given pocket money back by the Sisters.
She told me she does not want to leave me will fulfil all her marital obligations. Her marital life will be her priority but again, the way things are, I do not know if to believe her.

Again, this is no magic turnaround of events. It is what the BKs will advise her to say ... and tolerate as part of a long term plan if there is money - and the avoidance of conflict from fathers and family - in it for them. You say she is financially independent now, but is her mother? Is the Father financing BKism through the mother?

To be honest, that's a VERY common equation in BKism. The husband/fathers go along with it for the sake of peace and face within their community, seeing it in their mind as just another form of "being holy". In short, it's the BKs exploiting Hinduistic beliefs.
It is upto speculation if she was confused, lying or try to con me.

Apolosies to Jann but there's an old say, "there's only two ways to treat a women, and no one knows what they are". To which I add, "Not even the woman ...".

To be honest, you have been conned ... although she probably is conflicted within herself.

And the Brahma Kumaris have a lot to answer for messing up yet another couple/family and wasting years of YOUR life and emotions.

As to her, I cannot say, but within the BKs, I can be ABSOLUTELY sure they saw and knew what was going on. It will all have been about appeasing the Father, my guess to keep him financially supporting the mother and BK centre wherever they are.

If she has been in for 15 years, visit Abu more than once as a "kunya" (virgin) and been through "kunya" classes, and gone to Murli classes for years ... SHE KNOWS VERY WELL WHAT THE BK LINE IS.

I think what it's all about is the Father and his financial support.

Trust us 100% when we say the Brahma Kumari have made a fine art of lying and deceiving and - weaving that web of deceit about them for decades - they have become a skilled as spiders are weaving webs around such *obstacles* to their agenda as you.

Does sex with a robot and robot love for an unwanted child sounds like a good equation to you? Already, she seems to be thinking about dumping the child in "child units" in Abu so she can go meditation. I would not trust or believe her at all until she was to 100% cut off now. And you are saying she wont.

She is still in a state of mind where cannot accept it is all false.

What should you do?

Say nothing, act quietly, and sort out your own and any joint financial affairs. Do your best to make sure the Brahma Kumaris can get none of it (via her getting it). Don't get suckered by trying to be "good". You were conned. You don't roll over to conmen or women.

Unfortunately, if you've ended up in California (where many of the BK software/IT types have), they have pretty stiff laws when it comes to divorce and she could take half of everything, even yours.

Protect yourself and argue your case against her strongly. The Murli says they should leave everything.

It will take me a few days to get anywhere near specific quotes but have a look at the Encyclopedia section. There are many Murlis in there, along with teachers course, and you will find some quotes yourself.

There are then complete copies of Murlis in the Library section which you can put in front of her nose and challenge her with if she argue against them.

But, in the mean time, say nothing and investigate your financial and legal situation.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post17 Aug 2015

ex-l wrote: Does sex with a robot and robot love for an unwanted child sounds like a good equation to you?
I was thinking almost the same thing. Having sex with someone ”tolerating” it would make me feel almost like a rapist or abuser. In this case it could also be at the same time seen as a kind of bait for entrapment of you ! Yuk!


The ’traditional’ BK complete prohibition of sex surely was better for a BK spouse than this contradictory advice of ”purity” but ”do it for God” mentality. What kind of schizo effect would such contradictory practice do over time to someone’s psychological health?

I’d prefer someone to honestly say to me ”No’’ than for them to pretend, or to blankly put up with me using them as a sex doll. Indeed, you’d feel more of an honourable gentleman with an inflatable sex doll than you would dealing with your conscience, knowing she is doing something joylessly out of obligation ‘for' you!

How incredibly humiliating and dehumanising for both of you.

And *that* is the wickedness of the BK values - demean everyone, so that their god can be ”glorified”.

I’d say she also needs to be honest with herself - does she want to be both a poor wife and a poor BK?
She needs to choose one or other and do it well, not demean herself and you with pretences.
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clearofBK

BK supporter

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post17 Aug 2015

I’d say she also needs to be honest with herself - does she want to be both a poor wife and a poor BK?
She needs to choose one or other and do it well, not demean herself and you with pretences.


Very true. After seeing this post, this is exactly what I thought. She perhaps wants to have best of both and not still sure of her full commitment to BK life. BK life is one of full commitment not half and being unsure of taking this life on or not may be one of her issues so she may be clinging on. Not a good state to be in BK world as people with not 100% commitment won't last long (weak bricks). She really needs to open up and be honest about it.

BTW, the advice of the robot sex comes from self proclaimed Gurus like Mbbhat (he definitely has advised it) or Murlis?!
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ex-l

ex-BKWSU

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post18 Aug 2015

Yes, it's true.

On the sliding scale of strategies to encult husbands or avoid conflicts that will blow back on the BKWSU, BK centre-in-charges will advise female adhere to lie back passively and a allow the husband to relieve himself in her, whilst attempting to practise "soul consciousness" and "remember Baba".

It - you - is seen as a bad karmic account that must paid off before the chance of becoming free.

On the other hand, if you want to help this individual out on a human level, consider this and do a little psycho-analysis on her family dynamics.
Cult behavior reflects the wish for a loving, accepting sibling group that is protected and cherished by a powerful, omnipotent parent. The problem with such a wish and its accompanying fantasy is that no human being can fill the role of the superparent, and adults can never again be children. To preserve the fantasy, reality must be distorted, because of .this distortion, cult behavior results in a loss of realism. In the more extreme cases, the consequences can be drastic. Diminished realism is a problem in any situation, however, and for this reason, cult behavior is costly no matter where it takes place: affecting business decisions, governmental deliberations, day-to-day relationships in the community, or the practice of psychotherapy. Fortunately, awareness of these cult behaviors offers protection from their influence.
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