Marriage in jeopardy

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

Mine was just a legal marriage and consummation was with a sex doll or robot who was having sex with me and crying out loud to her Baba with no emotions or feelings towards her husband whom she went into traditional marriage.

I am highly indebted to ex-I for all his help. My divorce was inevitable even if I was not into this forum that was 100% guaranteed as I would have never converted into BK crap.

As for learning spirit, my ex wife's own Brother, Father, her uncle and aunts advised me to seek divorce if she is not willing to leave BKism ... So, learning spirit, contact me and I will give you her family information to confirm the same.

It is this cult who is breaking up families and, yes, counslors like ex-I and PP have helped me a lot. I will update you in great detail in next few post to share the true colors of BKism ...

Just reminds me a saying in Hindi whose English translation is, "a thief blaming the cops" and brahmakumaris.info is a cop and we all know who is the thief ...

I assure you ex-I that I will share my experience as after legal divorce. I have nothing to hide ...

Hope learning spirt contacts my ex-wife's uncle and her aunt and her own Brother who supported and even strongly advised me to go ahead with it ...

It is amazing to see how deceiving and shameful people can be, blaming someone who has saved my life.

Learning spirit, my own parents' whole family and friends, after knowing my story, including my wife's aunt and cousin, ask me that how was I able to live this hellish life, and their only question was why I did not file for divorce earlier because I am a emotional fool who got trapped in by BK yuktis ... I just feel like giving a mouthful to these morons and my blood is just boiling for what learning spirit is claiming. I will say every wife who decides to turn into a BK needs to pick either BKism or divorce ...

V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

On second thoughts I need not waste time on learning spirit because like my ex wife he is also under religious delusions and I have no right to get angry with a mentally ill person..

Nark means hell just like ' Golden Age '
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

V78 wrote:I will say every wife who decides to turn into a BK needs to pick either BKism or divorce ...

Ah, but the BKs don't want that ... they want the wife to stay with the husband so the husband pays for her. He pays and gets nothing, they use.

We had one case here, Desi Americans, where the wife went to the BK centre leaving her teenage daughter in charge of the rest of the children. Husband paid. In another case, we advised the husband to remove the wife's credit card and only give her the money she needed for the family. She went mad because she could not buy things for the BKs from it.

Even if the husband is not a BK, the BKWSU still accept his money, and his property when he dies. It's a "long con". If you don't understand the term, look it up.

Only a few divorce. If the wives get property, that generally just goes to the BKs quicker and then the woman becomes a "made BK" (like the Mafia calls it, a "made man" - a term for a fully initiated member of a Mafia).

In London, we had a case where BK wives were conspiring together to give advice (i.e. encourage how to lie) on how to divorce husband and even get them in trouble with police etc (false allegations to help divorce) including one BK Sister who was in the local authority.

Trust me, if you knew all the stories we could tell you would realise how lucky you are to be WELL away from them. Thank God you were not trapped by having children.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

Avid - How does it feel to be considered an "exam paper”?
ex-l wrote:In London, we had a case where BK wives were conspiring together to give advice (i.e. encourage how to lie) on how to divorce husband and even get them in trouble with police etc (false allegations to help divorce) including one BK Sister who was in the local authority.

Unfortunately, this is common enough amongst women generally. Usually the already divorced women in a group of friends encourage the still married how to do the divorce and maximise the assets gained. The idea is that these women can then spend their days having fun together on the proceeds.

I know of one case where a man worth $millions was reduced to poverty by an ex-wife who took most of the money, wasted it, then sued him and won most of the rest. She then encouraged the wife of a friend of mine to do the same to him. She had even followed advice to provoke violence, e.g. once she stabbed him to then say it was in self-defence in reports to police, and so on. She spent $40,000 on lawyers till she realised what she was doing to him and the family and they are still together.

Another friend had been accused of child sexual abuse by his ex-, the spoilt daughter of a wealthy family who doesn’t want their daughter to have any affection for him and to minimise access. The court knew she was lying and fined her for contempt but after 5 years of legals and hundreds of thousands of dollars spent, he’s run out of money and is resigned now to having only twenty weekends a year with his daughter, if he is lucky.

The BK culture takes this very human trait - dissatisfaction with reality, the desire for an ideal - and they exploit it for their ends. The BK version you describe is not really any different (and I am sure it happens in other groups). It is Ab Fab without the comedy.

The urbane new-age Western BK centres especially appeal to airy-fairy Edina Monsoon New Age types who have time and money and who want some "spiritual" cred to go with it with no real demands placed on them, no intellectual or critical capacity required (ask no questions, get no lies). Just learn a few eastern buzz phrases, spout motherhood statements, sit and fantasise about your imaginary beloved krisna and point out the donation box.

As for Learning Spirit - he is ignorant of what marriage is or can be, what family means. He polishes his intellectual lingam thinking that will give birth to a new world.

clearofBK

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

Achanak, is that exam as in exam paper? Ishara is that "hint"

Achanak means "sudden" -> the reference is usually for sudden change of events; In this conversation, reference is to end of world
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

Pink Panther wrote:The urbane new-age Western BK centres especially appeal to airy-fairy Edina Monsoon New Age types who have time and money and who want some "spiritual" cred to go with it with no real demands placed on them, no intellectual or critical capacity required (ask no questions, get no lies).

Did someone mention "money"?

Funnily enough, the woman comedian Jennifer Saunders based Edina Monsoon in the Absolutely Fabulous TV show is called Lynne Franks.

Lynne Franks was a Kirpalani Klan acolyte, aka "serviceable contact soul" or "microphone soul", for a while. I've met her and would say your description is accurate enough (and the comedy show fair satire). Apt BK term, as her real world trade was PR and advertising.

What the Soviet regime used to call "useful idiots".

She fronted up BK events and pulled in a names for them. No doubt they sucked all they could from her. No idea if she stuck around, but that's normally how it goes for the BKs. Some IP or VIP comes along, is deluded by special treatment from Dadi and Jayant etc, everyone gets all excited for a while, they goes off on their own ego trip about the BKs without knowing what the BKs are really all about; then it wears off and it's back to the grind for the BKs to find the next VIP to make it all seem worth doing.

Franks seems to have seen "BKs seva" as a niche in the marketplace and was offering her own women only "Creative Leadership Retreats" in Mallorca last I heard. Sounds familiar, or just the market the BKs would also like to be in? £1650 to £1925 + VAT per week. No idea if she incorporates BK elements or not.

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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post02 Dec 2015

More from learning spirit ... "such strong prejudice where people can not accept challenging opinions".

What on earth to they mean and what are they referring to? A Brahma Kumari hooks a husband by giving him blow jobs, conspires with other BKs to then wean him off sex and into a childless celibate marriage, and then starts to flirt with a BK Brother?

Well, I suppose the idea of accepting that as a "healthy relationship" and worth pursuing is a "challenging idea". Perhaps if you knew or believed in BKism a little more, Learning Spirit, you would understand why even from their point of view, it was condemnable. The BKs are so corrupt these days. So how would you described yourself, an ex-BK apologist? Or were you never a BK in the first place?

These conspiring women have robbed a man of several years of his life, loss of healthy opportunities, and would have tied him into being a cash machine for the BKWSO if we had let them, just like his father-in-law was to his BK mother-in-law I suppose. He had no desire to be a BK and made it clear before he got married. There was no family, the relationship was already broken, we rescued him from wasting years of his life.

Like mother, like daughter ... the Brahma Kumaris like men to give them financial support and advantages without working for it. Now it appears the center-in-charges are even willing to tolerate a little oral - Priyanka Chopra style - in order to get their way ... a financier for a future BK. (Priyanka Chopra is the BKs' latest VIP catch).
learning spirit wrote:From: Brahma Kumaris Forum

This is what prejudice and hatred can do to sane people. They may be amused to find that I am not a BK, I have a family so I know what marriage means....such generalizations and jumping to conclusion shows such strong prejudice where people can not accept challenging opinions. I full understand situation V78 is in and empathise with him but when sane voices like PP have extreme views, it shows the negativity that BKinfo is spreading. I express my independent opinion both against BKs sometimes and against Anti-BKs at other times. I don't believe in being at any extreme and take moderate views based on my own research.

learning spirit says, they "have a family" but not that they are married.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

Birds of a feather flock together.

Great article by the son of Lynne Franks, thanks for the link ex-l. Reminded me of the piece by Will Hodgkinson about his upbringing by BK dad and BK sympathetic mum. These children are very forgiving of their parents.

The sadder parts of his article reminded me of T’s letter. T was the son of a mum who separated from their dad when she became devoted to BKs. T's Sister was the first case of child sexual abuse in BKs made public. T eventually found his own voice after maturing and seeing a world broader and more varied than the BK upbringing had wanted him to see. He went to university, studied and worked his way out of the BK mindset he had been conditioned into. Through using heart, intelligence and basic human compassion, he may not have found ”a higher truth” but he certainly realised what wasn’t truth, calling out the hypocrisy and dishonesty, both morally and intellectually, of the BKs he’d be raised to believe in, admire and respect.

So Learning Spirit has family, huh? He is obviously finding more stimulation in the open market of ideas he finds reading here than he does from Murlis or the one-party supreme leader mindset of BK culture.

Here’s the rub LS, if you are reading. A marriage is not a piece of paper. Full stop.

Traditionally, it is the union of man and woman become sanctified (by God in most religions, by the order of nature under others). The legal contract by which we define marriage these days is a modern ”necessity” based on proving property rights under law in a materialistic society.

If a man (like LS) lives ”in sin”, i.e. not legally married but willingly honours the role and duties of Father and husband, then he is ”married” in traditional terms. Many cultures have no ”marriage certificates”, some don’t even have marriage ceremonies, people are considered married by the way they live and relate and what duties they fulfil ...

If a man is legally married with marriage certificate but fails in his role or does it begrudgingly, he is a fraud and a thief. Same goes for the women.

The wives of V78 and Avid are, by what we have been told, thieves and liars or, at the very least, ignorant deluded fraudsters besotted by the image of a spiritual pop star who wants them to continually prove their devotion by crowd-funding his next project. The more you give, the more benefits you get, maybe one day even a back stage pass.

A ”husband" means the ”master of the house” and originally the one who cultivates and directs the work done on a property. Crops and Animals are "husbanded” (husbandry).

In BK terms, Brahma Baba is the supreme husband and he husbands the resources of the BKs (children of Brahma) to grow and expand his property.

In the cases of Avid and V78 and others in their situations, they are being husbanded like sheep, ready to be shorn and milked for all they are worth. They have stood up for themselves as men, refusing to be infantilised and herded by the distorted idea of marriage their spouses have fallen for.

V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

There is another dark side of my story which I have shared with ex -I in detail via emails. This was the least I expected from my BK wife and it came as a big shock as well as disappointment for me ... I will not be in much detail as it gives me great pain to share this but it is important to let BKs who read this post to let them know what is happening at their centers..

So I discovered my wife was approached by a BK Brother who is one of the main Brothers at a BK centre teaching Yoga reading Murlis etc who started sending her emails of personal nature my wife had to tell him she is married. Then he told her that he liked my wife and wants to hug her and then my wife had to remind him of Maryadas ...

So what kind of stupid faith is this which is telling husband and wife to live as Brother and Sister but people who are calling each other x bhen (Sister) and Y chai (Brother) have these kind of designs. So my BK friends can tell what kind of vetting process they have where their Brother preaching people to denounce sex lust is himself is working to take advantage of a young married woman in disguise of Gyan and is eyeing a female follower ...

Then both of them started talking multiple times in a day be it 9, 10, 11 pm or after midnight. So do they have a system of giving Godly brotherly love to young married woman when their husband is away?

So can BKs tell me the purpose of the email and phone nos is for exchange of their Baba's teachings or for building personal relationships?

I told both of them to stop all this but both of them kept on lying and denied any of this but finally acknowledged when I showed them evidence. Then my wife told he is just his friend. Then their web of lies continued so their interaction.


So what kind of meditation is this in which a person who is in Gyan for over 20 years as well as my wife instead of acknowledging mistake kept on lying to me ... is this what their teachings are ?


And at the time my wife kept on having sex with me too ... although I guess she was emotionally attached to him too.

So members of this great spiritual organization who are reading this post. I have no plans to be a part of polygamous marriage which involves their Baba, a Murli teaching BK Brother and me and probably more men down the road. So I am out of it by my own choice rather than counselling by ex-I or PP but I am indebted to them as well as this forum which made me understand and helped me counter and understand this great spiritual organization and their divine teachings which a impure shura like me is not worthy of.

I have exposed both of them at all centre in the country where I live are aware of it and I am sure they are working at a cover up ...

I have to move on with my life so respectfully in days to come I want to take break from anything which reminds me of my BK wife and reading experience of other innocent victims like avidBkhater reminds me of my hellish sham marriage and makes me realize there is nothing in this world we can do to stop them to ruin more families and they are poaching on new innocent victims everyday ...

I have pity on my wife the way she is delusional about her Baba and her fellow BK family. So let her discover Her Baba and hope she realizes the truth otherwise Omshanti for her ... and she will definitely go in Golden Age especially after her divine actions ...
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

It's funny but I think rather than helping people, the vagueness of BKism in the West these days is actually harming them more, because the boundaries of what is acceptable are no longer clear. The "pick and choose" laxity is encouraging problems such as these.

But what was really going on in the Brahma Kumari Sister's mind? If she had been going to the BKs for years, reading and listening to Murlis, and her mother was a BK, she knew what the rules were. Did she never talk to her mother about it? What did she say?

This ambiguity has actually been going on for a lot longer time than I was aware of, but was kept more secret in the past.
Now, with so many BKs partnering off, dropping BK service to become self-employed BKs or consultants etc it seems like it is an 'anything goes' mess.

Here, for example, is the marriage between BK Simon and Colonel BK Hansa Raval of Texas in 1980, and then the divorce in 1991 after he left BKism. They are now in the public domain, so it is not private any more.

Did the leadership know and encourage it? Did they turn a blind eye because it was "good for business". Are all Indian Sister BKs allowed the same privilege to grab a Western Brother? The fact is, they are not and I think that is unfair.

Colonel BK Hansa Raval was one of the founders of the BKWSO in the USA, but famous for leaving her first husband AND infant child behind to become a Brahma Kumari teacher. She then secretly married a BK Brother. In the first place, it was probably just to defraud the immigration department and give him a US visa, but it too became a relationship.

As is the Queen, so is the Queendom?


When Learning Spirit says something like "I have family" ... it's deliberately ambiguous. BKs can and will say anything that sounds good, e.g. I heard them saying, "I am Christian" or "I am Jewish" when we all know that to become a BK their Baba says you must, in essence, convert "back" to BKism.

So what does "Have a family mean?" Do they mean, they have a wife or husband, a marriage and a relationship? Or are they just the child of a mother and Father? Do they know what marriage is because their mother and Father were married? Perhaps their mother was a BK and manipulated their Father into no sex but financially supporting her BKism? There are many men trapped in such loveless 'robot' marriages.

I wonder now LS know a little more, what advice they would give? For V to go back to his wife, suffer longer and be denied a family? Be forced to adopt the dysfunctional BK family as "their family"?

If you surrender to BKism, they encourage a sort of detachment from everything. Everything becomes just something that is useful to promote BKism. Baba tells you to be detached "serve" your impure family. If you are married, it is suppose to become the perfect advertisement for BKism of a chaste marriage. You cannot just be natural.

For the record, BKs Raval and Vivian weren't just married, they actually practised bigamy. Wonderful attitudes towards marriage and relationships.

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As is the Queen, so is the Kingdom
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

This is not just about "breaking the BKs rules" to become attracted and marry another BK, nor even having an illicit relationship with one, having dumped your old "lokik" marriage partner.

It's also about the Brahma Kumaris willingness to break the law and lie to authority and the audacity with which they do so and exploit society to their and their cult's advantage.

Raval continued to falsifying visa applications to the US immigration authorities for other men over the decades, in order to get or keep well paid Indian BK males (IT engineers) into the USA under false pretences. No doubt to flush the BKWSO's bank accounts with money, enabling their expansion. (Indian BK males used to be conditioned to hand over their entire wage to the BK center-in-charge as if she was their wife, and only be handed back pocket money by her).

But, relating it back to V, we see a national pattern here. Pick one man, then dump him and take another (more subservient/more exploitable) BK man. However, in Raval's case, she did not want to let him go and he had to run from the centre leaving everything behind - leaving the marital house (aka BK centre) he had worked on redevelop, unpaid for years of labor - and even then she, ahem, "forgot" to file divorce proceedings and continued to pull him back, even at one point encouraging him to leave behind a daughter he had with his next wife to rejoin the BKs.

So is their nature and such is the fate of a BK husband ... unpaid labourer, financial sponor, driver, security and handyman for Baba's little princesses. They don't even get a back rub out of it and if they do not "surrender" they are looked upon with scorn as impure and deluded. Impure and deluded, but a convenient ATM.

To my knowledge, the BKWSU has never reprimanded or punished Raval but instead reward her with a high position. Why? My guess is because she brings in the money, and takes money to India. I think she secured her position by involving herself direction with the Dadi Janki foundation business.

Learning Spirit states they are married and is joined by a different BK Simon who also married a BK Sister in Gyan. One has to question whether for "love and romance", or just "service" and a visa for her.

Learning Spirit uses pretentious language like "independent research" to justify their position without clarifying what it actually means. What independent research has been done on the BKs' influence onto married couples?

BTW, what is the BKWSU leadership's position about such relationships now, and what are the BKWSU's rules on them?
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

learning spirit wrote:Yes, for them its either you are with us or you are with the BKs. There is no middle ground possible. There is only one variety of ex-BKs possible in their world, those who are angry or have been hurt for any reasons. I think this is intentional as it helps ex-l's propaganda. He wants to portray BK as evil and if there is anyone who is not a BK and not as negative as them for BKs, they feel threatened as it hurts the propaganda.

V78, the person quoting above was the husband of a BK wife. I feel for him as he has come out from a relationship (perhaps for good) but got into ex-l trap. When someone is angry, ex-l opinions can appear to be eye openers, but in the long run it will keep you trapped in negativity


Yes, BKism is "evil", and an unnecessary evil. It's not a spiritual path, it's just a tool for social climbing, the fantasy of a Hindu shop keeper who dabbled in spiritualism and ended up believing he was god for 20s while squandering his wealthy by playing out his 'Krishna and the Gopis' fantasy.

Ever since then, they have had to keep re-dressing it in order to keep the money coming in. Unlike Taoism or Buddhism etc, it's does not even have any cool.

The only people who "need" it are those who live off it. The rest of the world can get on just fine without it. Starting with these couples and families.

I have to reject the pettiness of the usual distractions from any moral, ethical or spiritual objection to the damaging parasitical nature of BKism and its god spirit, i.e. that is that anyone who has moral, ethical or spiritual objection to the damaging parasitical nature of BKism a must be "angry or have been hurt for any reasons".

That's just a typical BKism ... it's their fault, it's their weakness, it's their "low level of understanding".

Unfortunately, it appears that you really do not get, or understand enough about BKism, to be able to comment upon it. You are a BK, just not a very good or self-realised BK, nor a "high soul".

If you did, you'd surrender and be following the Maryadas properly.

V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post03 Dec 2015

Learning spirit,

I don't want you or any other BK to shed crocodile tears for me ... I will prefer ex-I's negativity rather than become delusional with a Baba's carrot of the Golden Age.

Let me rot in hell and you have fun with your Dadis in Golden Age. I assure you I will rather die than become part of your cult. So mind your own business and focus your energy on my ex-wife aka your spiritual Sister ...

I am happy leading a normal life with normal relationship rather than a spiritual life which you all are living. I am just glad the whole world is not following your Baba's Maryadas of celibacy otherwise mankind will come to an end.

Instead of showing pseudo sympathy to me just go and do more Yoga ... and if I am at your place I will be celebrating that People like I and ex-I are getting trapped in negativity, so go and have fun in your Golden Age ...

Again, I think all of us need to FOCUS on the way a cult can destroy lives of people, ruin families and help each other to save ourselves and our loved ones to get sucked into a cult.

I think I also need to stop reacting at living spirit or, for that matter, any BK.

I hope by reading my posts at least one person is able to save a family from this cult that will be my purshartha or good karma.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

V78 wrote:Learning spirit, I don't want you or any other BK to shed crocodile tears for me ... I will prefer ex-I's negativity rather than become delusional with a Baba's carrot of the Golden Age.
This reminds me of a statement made by a victim of child sexual abuse by a Roman Catholic priest. She was talking about how even friends and family, devoted Catholics said that although what happened to her was unfortunate and they prayed for her, they preferred not to be "negative” or see fault, to look away and not make trouble or criticise God’s holy church who, anyway, had transferred the offender so had solved the problem (to offend elsewhere as others testified).

V78 I have to disagree with your use of the term ”negativity” - unless you are using it ironically for Learning Spirit’s sake. There is a different between ”being negative” and pointing out what is wrong with a state of affairs.

LS claims to be an ex-BK who is married with family and a moderate in all things. Moderate can mean ”unprincipled” or can mean unwilling to acknowledge that which places a demand for change. It can be the preferred self-adjective of the pacifist-denialist. In context it, indicates a willingness to philosophical equivocation, anything is acceptable as long as I never have to alter my position.

LS, every child born since Lekhraj declared himself God, or since he declared himself the vehicle of God, every BK born after the teachings of the primacy of celibacy, is a proof of the hypocrisy of that teaching.

Your own children are a denial of your acceptance of that God’s authority. Either that or you must accept they are mistakes.

What would it take Learning Spirit, for you to change your mind about BKs? Unless you have asked yourself that, you haven’t begun to consider the difference between reality and delusion, truth and falsehood.

Is there a crux, a principle, a pivot, a foundation upon which your ethics or values rest?
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

Is it a pride thing?

There's "status by association"; is there a humiliating "loss of face via association" too?

It's true. By BK standards, by the BK Gyan, he's a failure. A lowly ranked Silver Aged soul at best, caught up by Maya and in his own manmat.

By denying BKism, he must really think inside his understanding of spirituality is superior to theirs (and it may well be). They, on the other hand, think he is weak, impure and inferior to them. To be pitied a little for wasting precious Sangum Yuga, surely?

Did he get married before or after BKism? I wonder what his wife thinks of the time he spends with the BKs?
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