Marriage in jeopardy

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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post13 Dec 2015

But who cares...? In India, 3/4 th of the Centre-in-Charges are not even well educated to understand this.

B.P, we write here for people who read here, not for those who don’t. I assume anyone who reads here has something sparking between their ears.

As you know, new ideas or concepts take time to infiltrate old ways of thinking. And people rarely change their views on what others argue, they usually only change from what they (think they) came up with or realised for themselves - what they are ready for. Not just reason, but emotion, experience, relationships, biology, hormones, and so many other factors change, and they change us.

Consider ideas to be like seeds that often only sprout when conditions are right. The person reading today is being gradually ”informed” by many influences. Certain points of view may not seem agreeable to them today, for whatever reason. But as they change, the ground beneath them has shifted, what "makes sense” also changes, the seeds that will sprout will be those that suit that soil, that psycho-emotional climate. I am sure if you reflect on your own experience you will see that has happened.
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post14 Dec 2015

B.P, we write here for people who read here, not for those who don’t.

I seen many Sisters who work as juniors in the centres are not aware about the reality. They just follow the SS under the Shrimat of "Haji" (Yes madam). After the long course of time some of them feel that they are trapped and now no way to go out. Some of them transform and become like SS. Many suffocate for the whole of their lives when turn in to mataji (Old Woman). The new young Sister starts dominating them

Some efforts should be for them who don't read here and never know about it.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post14 Dec 2015

because.parmeshwar wrote:Some efforts should be for them who don't read here and never know about it.
Not much we can do. The main thing that seems to get around the BK world is gossip, so it needs a well-publicised scandal to get people talking. But even if the bullsh*t is put under someone’s nose, loyalty is such that they will say it is fragrant and magical bullsh*t, because, unlike cowsh*t which follows the laws of gravity, bullsh*t floats above reality like a lotus!
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post14 Dec 2015

because.parmeshwar wrote:I seen many Sisters who work as juniors in the centres are not aware about the reality ... Many suffocate for the whole of their lives when turn in to mataji (Old Woman). The new young Sister starts dominating them. Some efforts should be for them who don't read here and never know about it.

I wish some efforts were but, unfortunately, it is an issue for Indians to deal with. I believe it is more serious than for Westerners because they have far less options. I wonder how many are just depressed and feel let down by all the false promises.

They spent their lives as slaves on the basis of manipulation based on false promises. I mean that word. Unpaid servants with no rights, no security, no pension etc are slaves. There was no Destruction, what will become of them? Do BK donations now to to keep them in old people's homes? Are young BKs needed to support them in their old age? Are they abused?

This is a separate issue from marriages being broken up though and, in that department, far more Indian men must suffer too. It would be really good if someone could reach out to them too ... there must be 100s of 1,000s of them.

The difference between BKism and a book or overarching psychological theory is that the latter tend not to create the same emotional response and pattern of infidelity as BKism does. They don't completely answer what is going on in a BK addict and certain don't cure it. BKism like a fever. Once a personal catches it, it very difficult to snap them out of it. The first thing to do is protect others from catching it and defend one's family's financial and material welfare from being burnt in the BK funeral pyre (which is what they call it). Then you've almost just got to let them go through The Cycle.

There is an 'active ingredient' in BKism that a book alone doesn't have.

I think, like Pink says, you can plant ... or hammer if necessary ... seeds into their minds for when they come down and start to think rationally again but it's difficult as, for all its claims, BKism is very attractive to the ego of the individual and the "meme" has come to comprise of many self-defences against reasonable criticism. The BKs know now how individuals around the BK will respond and they have written in defensive scripts, yuktis, to defend themselves.

V78 did the right thing of appealing to her reasonably first, and then when that failed to get her out of his life, warning the families involved and challenging the BK leaders to think about what they are doing. It's an either or situation with the BKs, otherwise you will end up a servant to them at some point or another.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Dec 2015

ex-l wrote: Unpaid servants with no rights, no security, no pension etc are slaves. There was no Destruction, what will become of them? Do BK donations now to to keep them in old people's homes? Are young BKs needed to support them in their old age? Are they abused?

This is a separate issue from marriages being broken up though.


Not unlike V78’s situation before his decision. What happens if his (or anyone’s) wife is injured (usually the wife) while she is there or in transit? The unpaid labour is not just from the ”fully surrendered” , who, it could be argued, at least get food and board in return. Who pays hospital and doctor bills etc?

This is not anti-BK rhetoric. This is reality, people’s lives and livelihood. Count the ”man-hours" and potential risks.

If a BK married to a non-BK regularly goes to a local BK centre regularly and gives time (apart from class) and goes also (to a more distant retreat centre to volunteer time and labour, not only is this labour unpaid, but as has been mentioned elsewhere, the BKs are now hiring outtheir retreat centres to other groups i.e. they’re charging money while getting BKs to work chopping veg, cooking, cleaning etc for no pay - a form of (psychologically) bonded labour?

Not only are they not being paid but they are also foregoing paid work (real or potential) to do so, which, given the regularity, makes a substantial difference to a family’s financial situation - unlees, liek many , they are ”kept” women with rich husbands (or vice versa gender-wise).

What if they return having caught the flu, or overtired & stressed from sleeping badly in shared rooms, or get a bad back - all of which can prevent that person going to their paid job until recovery? This extends the period of foregone income or if they get sick pay, is being subsidised by their employer or government benefits (other people’s money) .What if there’s an accident in the kitchen, a severe cut or burn, or a fall off a ladder or anything?

Now, in work situations here in Australia, employers have insurance schemes to cover worker injuries etc. I am sure the BKs do have insurance cover - if not worker cover, at least public liability insurance.

    - Do the BK Admin whistle and look skyward, hoping an injured BK doesn't make a claim?
    - Are the injured BKs encouraged to claim? Are their circumstances inquired into?
    - Does the culture encourage them to not ”make a fuss” or be a burden, thinking the BKWSU would be somehow strained by insurance compensation, that they’d be doing ”disservice”, they’d lose status or seen as weak, money grubbing or less heroic?
    - Do BKSWU do what all employers are obliged to do and actually offer the compensation and help the worker make an insurance claim? Do they even clarify or discuss with their workers the rights and obligations from both sides?
    - Or do BKWSU just pay premiums so they can to be legally covered and able to operate but waste the annual premium by never claiming, just to avoid losing any no-claims bonus to keep premiums lower?
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post15 Dec 2015

Pink Panther wrote:Do the BK Admin ...

Ha.

They and their god spirit have already primed the adherent with the thought that ... "it's victim's bad karma".

In fact, even in my time, the BKs had even gone as far as to borrowed from Vaishnavism the idea that is something bad happened to you at one of their centres is was even better for you as it was a karma clearance of an even higher quality or value than if the bad had happened to you at home, e.g. I heard this of being sick at Mount Abu (which happened to many).

The BKs do their usual thing and twist and coil to avoid any responsibility or attack. They don't have any members, hence adherents have no rights within the organisation and, basically, they do not have workers in the West either; you're just "family". You don't even have the rights of a guest.

Would a child sue their family, a Brother sue a Sister?

It's ingeniously devious when you think about it, but not novel. Like much of the philosophy, it's also cultural and borrowed.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post29 Dec 2015

Copyight remains with the original artist (and its not me).

CartoonMarriageJeapordy.jpg
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post29 Dec 2015

Funny, very naughty but says it all ... who was the original artists or where is the original source?

It needs a final box where the family house becomes a BK centre though, after the kids ... and dog ... have been chucked out.

Husbands have it bad enough, but have you ever seen a pet in a BK centre?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post30 Dec 2015

Not sure - its from a facebook meme going around. As for pets in centres, they usually become the zone-in-charge’s PA.
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avidbkhater

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

Hello,

V78, hope you get a good break and recover from this trauma soon.

I am still in the same situation. My problem is similar to others but circumstances are different.

I have been reading some materials and blogs on this site and have been trying to counter argue with my wife but she is not ready to listen.

As suggested by you all earlier, I informed my family about the problem. They are all worried now and they want to talk to my in-laws but I prefer they don't in my absence.

If I bring up the topic or discussion on BK, she blames me that I am only concerned because of the celibacy is affecting you and that all I care about. It is offensive even though not entirely wrong. Celibacy is one aspect but to live with someone who follows such stupid thoughts is killing me. BK has changed her way of living and thinking.

I tried to read Muralis too; may be I didnt understand properly but I find the message to be the more or less the same thing. How could someone be so devoted to read same kind of message day and night?

Is there no way to expose this cult?
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

Thanks for your wishes avidbkhater.

I wrote detailed letter to all BK centers regarding the way my ex wife mislead and lied to me as well involvement of her BK Brother in our marriage. As per their reply, they did not accept my proposal of an open debate with them at their centre but informed me they will talk with both of them privately.

BK does not give a damn if families get destroyed. Their only concern their reality can sabotage their efforts to recruit more people.

As per my ex-wife, after her exposure she told me that how a educated person like me used cheap language in the letter as I wrote regarding her sexual involvement with me and then going to Madhuban for her Baba Milan. She also told me she cannot walk with a raised head in front of her BK contacts, and the organization is in trouble because of her actions.

So, at the most, some embarrassment for her and her BK Brother but it does not changes anything for me.

But she had no concern the way my life has been affected by her actions and no acknowledgement that she lied and mislead me regarding this cult.

Sadly, a lot of people are getting into this cult due to the sweet talking of Sr Shivani.

The only way this cult can be exposed is to share on Internet forums talk with desi diaspora abroad and hopefully some TV producer or a media house makes a program on the way this cult is destroying families.

I have been talking with as many people as I know regarding this cult and couple of people I know have stopped watching propaganda videos of this cult after knowing what happened to me.

"Charity begins at home" so, as for me, my motivation is to share my story with as many people as I can so that they take informed decision before joining this cult.

As per your wife, or any BK, they will place blame on other person as they believe Baba will take care of everything.

Ultimately, if all efforts fail and she wants to embrace this cult, then just let her go. I have divorced my wife and this has been a painful decision but it is much better than continuing a sham marriage with no emotions feelings or attachment.

Good luck !
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

V78 wrote:So at the most some embarrassment for her and her BK Brother but it does not changes anything for me.

This does seem to be the primary concern for many - "how will the other BKs think of me, will I be seen as a good BK or as a bad one” (After all, in their minds there are implications for eternity!)

One of the odd things about BKs is how perverted the valuing of others and themselves becomes. Displeased by most of the world yet cringingly embarrassed to state openly what they believe to ‘worldly’ colleagues and old friends in general social situations, while also cringingly seeking approval from BK Seniors...

In simple language, there’s 'us & them’ or BKs and non BKs. A BK is a superior soul to non-BKs, chosen each and every Kalpa by God Almighty and a deity soul etc. But BKs, Western ones at least, tend to hide their BK behaviours, they often seem embarrassed to talk about it. Many are socially uncomfortable where the situation is not a BK-controlled one. Apologetic about diet, about sex and not letting on they are celibate, that they are God’s chosen. They display a kind of inverted superiority complex, I am too good to reveal my status to the non-BK, they will not understand my strangeness, they will in fact judge me strange and, for some reason, they have a fear of what these non-BKs think about them!!

On the other hand, even in the BKs there’s another kind of ”us and them” (even the Avyakt Murlis start with, ”There are three types of children ...). Many BKs look to other BKs for confirmation of their self worth, trying hard to be accepted as "holy and yogi”, not wanting to be considered less in case that also indicates a low status in their god’s eyes, that maybe their ‘Yoga” isn’t actually enough ...

They are embarrassed, or feel lesser, when their own non-BK family and general life duties make them say ‘No' to something asked of them by their centre, something a single BK without commitments can do. Family and other relationships are now seen as an obstructions rather than a preference, like a workaholic who prefers to spend time with workmates rather than family! It may be like a teenager who rejects his family for his friends as he tries to establish his individual identity, but the BKs want to be that friend, peer pressure be part of the gang ... i.e. they are not encouraged to become free autonomous adults but to stay in ”the gang”.

Many BKs might say 'that’s something the individual has to work through' but all of us here know the BK culture actually encourages this constant seeking of approval; with those who are supposed to know better, the ”Seniors", being the main culprits in exploiting this. I have seen senior BKs do it many times, Janki was a master manipulator. FFS, I witnessed her in class profusely praise a middle aged woman BK who came to her for advice on which tea-towels to buy because that was a sign of respect and surrendering all manmat to Baba’s instrument.

What does that say to the rest of the class?
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

avidbkhater wrote: ... she blames me that I am only concerned because of the celibacy ... and that all I care about.

What disgusts me about the BKs is how, on one hand, they claim to be so superior; and yet, on the other, one has to constantly cut through layer after layer of dishonesty, deception and half-truth.

It's not "just about the celibacy" because BKism is not just about sexual celibacy, BKism is also about the mental and emotional detachment ... actually an 'infidelity' towards the married partner. Infidelity meaning a ‘disloyalty’ towards towards the partner (Baba become the lover and husband). A ‘disloyalty’ that gradually extends to enmity as the partner to whom they are supposed to be vowed become a burden or obstacle (literally, in BK terms).

Anyone who has been a BKs and listened to the Murli class has heard this 1,000 times and know it ... and yet they won't admit it even as the sworn relationship is falling apart.

The BK leaders play a part in the gradual falling apart of married couples, the taming of the husband, and encourage the BK with tactics (yuktis) to use, therefore they know it all well (local BK center-in-charges will report such cases to zones-in-charge and take their advice). This is also means nothing is private for the couples ... it travels the length of the BK family.

You don't end up "living as Brother and Sister", you end up living like two strangers, with the husband acting as financial provider and driver for the wife to play out her BK fantasy roles until she divorces or get the property.

I admire V78 for taking back his power and taking matters outside of the BK comfort zone. That is what you need to do. Do not play into their hands and allow them to control things, create a scene. If you create a big enough scene, they will often drop the BK child or partner to save themselves the trouble. And look, even at such a point, the BKs are still into controling the situation as much as possible, by not accepting his proposal of an open discussion and micromanaging individuals privately.

What about discussing their role in the relationship and asking them about what they encouraged the woman to do secretly? What practical punishment or disciplines will the BK receive (the answer is basically none, the worst punishment is banishment, before that being banned from going to Madhuban for a year of good behaviour).

I can imagine his ex-wife will even get sympathy from them for having to deal with such a "devilish" body-conscious Shudra (BK terms) as him. Even though she did the wrong on two level.

Congratulations. If she feel uncomfortable, you can remind her that as a BK this will happen to her every 5,000 Year Kalpa for the rest of eternity, according to their beliefs, and that she has destroyed her fortune and will face punishment at Dharamraj.
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avidbkhater

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

Today morning we had an argument when she found out that I have been reading materials against BK and I am on this forum. Supposedly she knows or may be the whole BK community knows about this forum and they know how to counter it.

She showed me some profiles of doctors and scientists to counter argue that even the most educated people are with BK and they follow the path of BK.

Those names are Dr. Satish Kr. Gupta, Dr. Pratap Midha, Dr. Girish Patel

Do you know them? Or about them?
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post11 Jan 2016

No, I don't know those specific individuals but that all that is, is a false defence called, "Appeal to Authority", the same as how the BKs use VIPs. The BKs have milked "status by association" for decades ... that is why they chase such IPs and VIPs. To give them credibility.
    What are these individuals doing to stop the abuse?

    What are their specialism, and where have they published to support the BK theories?
The yukti is, "If these people are intelligent and educated ... then The Knowledge must be true". It exploits people's fear of seniority.

So what if they have a degree in some unrelated speciality ... does it make the BKs' abuse and dishonesty *not* abusive and dishonest? There are plenty of very intelligent corrupt people in this world (criminal organisations are full of them). Indeed, I remember when the used to use doctors to advertise smoking and they still kill 100,000s of people every year.

All it means is that they can be more cleverly dishonest.

You can tell her we are not "against BKs" ... we are "for ethics ... for human rights ... for enlightenment ... for honesty, openness, accuracy ... etc".

The only thing we are anti- is abuse and dishonesty.

What do the BKs leaders say about us, and how do they teach the followers to counter us? (We have heard some of the things they say before, they are mostly untrue and dishonest, again a reflection on the nature of BKs).

We are never going to be able to destroy the BKs ... we have never tried to. That is not the aim (it will crumble from within). All we are doing is to promote improvements, stop some abuses, protect some innocent people, and help them stop wasting their life and time.

Promoting a more honest view of the BKWSU.

I wrote about Satish Kr. Gupta his "scientific paper" on how "soil consciousness" (as in body = humus = soil) becomes "soul consciousness" in the past. Firstly, IPs get special treatment to suck them in, but I think BKism appeals to some people because it is a big ego trip. Their mothers might have wanted them to become a doctor ... but they wanted to be a guru and BKism turns them into an instant guru with an instant uncritical audience.

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