Marriage in jeopardy

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

Dear Pink Panther,

The term 'negativity' was intentionally written with sarcasm to boost ego of these delusional fools and you are right it is ironically written for learning spirit who is blaming this forum for my divorce without knowing facts ...

Learning spirit is so concerned about me as I exposed the divine actions of my ex-wife with her spiritual Brother, not only on this forum but in a love letter to BKWSO which, in great detail, explains in explicit detail, that this great spiritual organization who is preaching people to stay away from vices such as sex lust, first needs to set their own house in order.

My sincere apologies to you or any non-BK person if it offended any of you.

Sometimes instead of anger I have pity on these delusional cult followers as what worse punishment are they giving themselves by following a spooky Baba and his divine Murlis, leading a life with no emotions or attachment, and abandoning their family responsibilities and leaving their loved ones for this cult.


Can someone give a worse punishment to oneself than this ???

... I am thankful to this cult that they do not share these divine Murlis with impure materialist Shudra like me ...

I think we should pray for all the followers of this cult, and I hope few of them discover reality of this BKism and come out of it .. as stated earlier we should not waste time on people like learning spirit as, until and unless they want to come out of their delusions, no one can do anything about them.

I wanted to seek revenge from my wife the way she ruined me ... but I just think she ruined 3-4 years of my life while she is ruining her whole life by going into her Baba.

In the last few months I have been through lot of emotions and I am glad there are good Samaritans like you and ex-I who are devoting their TIME in guiding people like me and making me understand the way my wife has been manipulating me with "yuktis" and with the help either her BK mother or Sister in charges.

Can learning spirit explain to me, what did ex-I or pink panther getting by saving my life from my BK wife ????

A pass for Golden Age ?

I agree that I am biased towards them because I only know how this forum and these guys saved me. I had lot of interaction with ex-I and pink panther via personal emails which helped me to understand evil designs of my BK wife.

She was shocked like anything when I started sharing my BK knowledge learnt from this forum and ex -I.

She thinks ex-I poisoned my mind ... How ironic it can be one who is helping me to expose her BK lies is poisioning my mind ... If exposing reality of BK is poison, I want it even more.


People like you and ex-I give me hope the way you came out of it she hopefully comes out of it and realizes the truth about them ... I hope this does not turn out to be my delusion and she does not become a centre-in-charge somewhere ruining more people.

Maybe I still love her that is why I want her to come out of this cult ... and I very well know I may die with this dream too ...
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

Thanks V78,

One thing LS needs to understand, and maybe a few others who read here, is that I still have some indirect connection with BKs through a few people who have shown themselves to be true friends, real human beings, to me and not just ”fair-weather” friends, i.e. only when things are agreeable, nor trying to get me to ”go back to Baba” (the thought almost makes me nauseous).

What I am trying to say clearly here is that my quarrel is not with any person as such, but with the goddamn stupidity and nonsense that the BK philosophy embodies, which diverted my life for too long, until I woke up, and continues to distort the lives of too many people I consider good people but who have been numbed by the traps built into the Gyan (the way there are traps in Christian and islamic beliefs too, for example).

That said, all I can reply to people like Learning Spirit who professes to respect marriage is what i said before - marriage is not a piece of paper. If a person, like V78 or Avidbkhater, has found themselves in a relationship with a BK unwittingly, either by not knowing they were BK or by not understanding what BKism actually is until later and what BKism turns people into & expects from them; if that person exercises a freedom to then choose not to continue with that relationship - by definition a marriage is two people agreeing and living with similar purpose "as one" - and if no innocent third parties are going to be seriously hurt, e.g. kids, other dependants; then it is better that they resume their individual paths, the BK be allowed to follow their commitment to their Baba unhindered by the needs and desires of the ”agyani atma” and vice versa.

Learning Spirit must be of the view that an unhappy marriage is better than an amicable separation. Nothing damages a kid more than an absent parent and I can tell you, many BK parents are off with the supreme pixie, never completely present emotionally or intellectually, very much like any parent with an addiction around which their life revolves.

BTW, I, too am amazed, nay surprised, at the new level of hypocrisy of the BKs revealed in these stories around sex, celibacy, yuktis to ”milk” the husband (ambiguity intended), and monetise a loveless marriage.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

V78 wrote:Can learning spirit explain me what do ex-I or pink panther get by saving my life from my BK wife ????

All I get is RSI (Repetitive Strain Injury) !!!

The worst part of it is having to stick close to and interact with BKs on a regular basis.
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clearofBK

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

Pink, this is not the first time. I know of cases in India of BKs that lived in centers for many years, got attracted to each other and got married and left BK Gyan. I know such a couple where both were surrendered (husband was in Shantivan for many years), decided to get married, left centers and now they have a child. It was shocking for the centers and I think they were not allowed in centres after that.

I vaguely remember from the book "Peace and Purity" by Liz H that such attractions between BKs were not uncommon particularly because in BK lifestyle, people can see in others ideal companions they were unable to find outside (because of sweetness, lack of ego in some people etc as per Liz). This was probably also the reason they adopted the practice of having separate tables for Brothers and Sisters and so on.

Outside of Liz's theory, I do think that some of the BKs living in centres for long time are more prone to this particularly if they surrendered in haste during their Honeymoon Period probably hoping that only few years are left. When they spend 10/20 years and see no Destruction happening, they probably start thinking an exit. In India, what I saw was that many of the Brothers that surrendered were even before their marriageable age (early 20s). After 10-15 years, when they reach 30s or even 40s, they get more prone to this. This is just my opinion on what could be happening in such cases. Sort of a BK midlife crisis.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post04 Dec 2015

clearofBK wrote:It was shocking for the centers and I think they were not allowed in centres after that.

I remember being around two 'at the point of exiting' BKs in London at the time when the pretty much the first Western "pukka" BKs were starting to drop off, those from the 1970s. Actually, we were all on a "service" mission to a festival.

They were starting to flirt. It was obviously making "we BKs" uncomfortable but the problem with Western BK in comparison to Indian BKs is that we were all made so damned submissive and non-confrontational.

The Brother kissed the Sister slowly, straight on the mouth and she did not resist. She surrendered. The effect was certainly "shocking" to the BK souls! I think no one had any idea what to do. If it had been India, probably some bossy auntie wold have thrown a bucket of water over them, like they do dogs, and chased them out of the camp!

But now standards appear to have dropped and for the sake of business compromises being accepted, e.g. the BK Relax Kids woman marrying her "Prince Charming" and yet going to morning meditation on the day of the Wedding (They are divorced now, don't why. perhaps she "had her little holiday" and went back to Baba. Perhaps she was always "married to Baba" and just having an affair on the side?), and Brian Bacon of the Self Management Leadership fame, who revolutionised BK service who also married a wealthy attractive BK Sister. They remain close.

I don't know how they square their actions with what is said in the Murlis or what the official BK party line is now but they appear to tolerate a lot of "impurity" if it is good for business, e.g. the Relax Kids woman still using BK facilities, the Bacons living in cottages right next to the BKs' luxury mansion house.
Sort of a BK midlife crisis.

Or they eventually saw through the hoax?

I tend to analyse everything from an economic point of view, sort of like the "marxism* of spirituality". Unlike as the BKs often criticise me for, I am not simply saying "it is all for the money", but I am saying, "it is dependent on the money and management of economic resources, one of which is the BK proletariat's labour".

Each BK represents an investment on behalf of the management to recruit and condition to become a free labourer. Each investment is required to bring about a 'return on that investment' (ROI). Every BK leaving is a great loss, not just in donations but also in labour. Every social screw up, every bad PR, every court case, every upset family etc etc etc ... are losses on their spreadsheets.

It is all about the economics because it is impossible for them to put out more than they can pull in ... which is why the BKs always resisted ordinary charity (pure loss, no ROI). Lekhraj Kirpalani was the "clever businessman" after all.

Losing a BK worker drone represents a loss of, say, $25,000 (average wage equivalent), plus a possible $2,500 to $5,000 cash donations ... equals $30,000 per year. If the average BK tenure in the West is, say, 10 years that means each brainwashed BK is worth $300,000 to them.

Although they may not think this out consciously, sub-conmsciously that is what is going on. The "body" of the parasitical BKWSU or BKWSO needs fed with human sacrifices and when it gets hungry or is starved, it starts to panic and complain through the minds of the BK managers or leaders. The top BK leaders are more attended to the parasitic mind of the BK spirit and so they pressurise the BK middle and lower managers to pull in more food.

Think about it in this way .. a very large but hungry parasite with little to no means of its own to produce.

Taken to the further extent, I think this is also why it tolerates BKs leaving and having children ... in the hope that they will return and sacrifice at least one of the children to it. I mean this literally. It literally goes on in India. They don't kill off the child, but metaphorically they take the child's life.

* (A method of socioeconomic analysis based on the material conditions of a society's mode of production; and a struggle between two main classes: the capitalists, who own the productive resources, and the workers or proletariat, who must work in order to survive).
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post05 Dec 2015

ClearofBk

The whole BK teaching that people should be celibate and remain or become ‘unattached' is because any distractions like children, family, lovers, means less time they can devote to self-purification through Yoga or gaining status through ”service” ( bringing in other people, money or connect to those who can provide money or services) for the forthcoming ”Golden Age” or "Sat-Yuga".

As ex-l has stated many times, the usual refrain is that there is only "a few years left” for effort. Right from the beginning of the Om Mandli till today, people have left the group as they consciously realise or unconsciously feel that something is not right as it is, things aren't as they seemed, time is passing, capital ‘L’ Life is calling them to a more real level of being human, i.e. being alive here and now, not living for the dangling carrot of Golden Age or the stick of suffering from karmic baggage or defying ‘God’.

Some people will pair up with other BKs as they are the people they are having any meaningful contact with. If you were on a desert island with a group of people and there was someone else feeling the way you were you’d find each other. BK life is isolated like a desert island. Some of these pairs stay together, some split up and move on (or back to BK in some cases) - every permutation happens.

The numbers of such events over the years, over the generations, gives the lie to the teaching. No need for children, stay celibate, the "kingdom” will be here soon, be holy be yogi ...

The explanations change as time goes on. The earlier generations believed only a few years were left, it seems they had to be lied to so that those who were destined to come later could ”take their birthright", and now ‘really' have only a few years left - so they should suppress / invert / divert their natural feelings for life fulfilment to invest that to create their ‘fortune” ...

Here’s a motherhood statement: at least 4 generations of women have gone from fertile young women with the world as their oyster to barren aged spinsters waiting for ”a new body”, consoling themselves on their life decision with their meditations on their perfect imaginary lover or as Krisna’s gopis, Baba’s angels, etc reminding themselves of how painful childbearing is or how tiring motherhood is ...

Of course, BKs tolerate all the levels of ”pukka-ness” - having terms like ”co-operative soul” and ”instrument soul” and "half-kumar” or "serviceable”. The Avyakt Murlis often start with ”there are three kinds of children” - to which I always think in response, ”Yes, those who can count and those who can’t” ;-).

This categorisation immediately asks the listeners to identify with one of these, to evaluate oneself. The idea is to inspire but my experience talking to many people over the years is that often they'll identify with the lower category, and thereby give themselves permission to ease up with their ”pukka-ness”, or dare not presume themselves in a higher category obviosuly meant for the Dadis. I always found these categories ‘arbitrary’, artificial, unhelpful, patronising and eventually they sounded infuriatingly ”unspiritual”, i.e. I gradually came to realise how contrary they were to what I instinctively felt ”spirituality’ to be.

As you surmised ClearOf, with the passage of time, the fluidity and freedom of spirituality has to be replaced with stiffening commitment, more energy is used to continually rationalise & justify to oneself why one is continuing as a BK when so much has proven itself at the very least questionable. A lot of this goes on unconsciously, at the back of one’s mind so to speak.Or one looks around for a window, a door, maybe a "co-conspirator" to defy fate, to escape with, to validate one’s decision.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post05 Dec 2015

Faced with hard facts, and reasonable and informed discussion, Learning Spirit has gone quiet. Perhaps they are "learning"? Not sure where they got the 41 years from ... it was about 10 years each, I think. Mid 1970s.

raval.jpg
From 1985
raval.jpg (31.15 KiB) Viewed 2953 times

Having left her own "non-BK child" behind with her own ex-husband,
and encouraging her ex-BK husband to leave the child he had and his next wife to return to the BKs,
the BKWSU call Hansa Raval a Didi (respected leader),
and allow her access to influence the children of other BKs.

Hansa_Raval.jpg
Hansa_Raval.jpg (42.72 KiB) Viewed 2905 times
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V78

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post05 Dec 2015

Ex- I,

Learning spirit is working with his/her whole team to produce an antidote for the "poison" you have injected me, because of which I knew the truth about this cult, so that I can go back to my ex-wife, aka his spiritual Sister.

As for their reasonable and informed discussion, I personally called a few sister-in-charges, and wrote to multiple BK centres here, challenging my ex-wife and her BK Brother to an open debate to expose their Maya, with their BK people as jury, so that the truth becomes exposed. I hope all of you will see the debate LIVE, the way these people transmit their BapDada milan from Mt Abu.

I am not here to indulge in character assassination of my wife but to tell everyone the reality of my experience with this cult, the way she has been brainwashed and the way things are in this great spiritual organization.

I feel for these young children for the way they are being brainwashed, as my ex-wife was introduced as a teenager by her mother.

Our marriage ceremonies were completely traditional with Hindu culture and marital vows. It was clearly stated that no one will come between us, but she calls that ceremony a ritual when we took vows in the name of GOD, as she know she thinks BK Baba is the real GOD. So I think she needs a room mate or a companion more than a real man, or true loving relationship, as she already has a divine husband.

I hope they are doing more Yoga so that their Drishti can work on me and I come out of ex-I and pink panther's spell, and become victim of their spiritual Sister and abusive relationship again.

I have been conned and cheated BUT I do not want any psuedo-sympathy from people like learning spirit.

I am just glad my GOD helped me to come out of this sinkhole.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post05 Dec 2015

This is an important issue, as it against exposes the *true* and largely secret principles of the Brahma Kumaris and their general contempt and disrespect for laws and other people's contracts or vows. And the conceitedness by which they place their god spirit -- probably nothing more than the spirit of their deceased shop owner founder -- on top of everyone else's god.

In this case,
    a) the wife was a daughter of a long term BK mother who would know very well what the BKs' and BK god spirit's attitudes towards marriage and sex were and under her influence. It is impossible to believe that they did not discuss the issue ... and how to con and dupe the non-BK husband.

    b) the wife was essentially a Brahma Kumaris, if only a slack, low quality BK soul. She had been in Gyan for years, read the mural. Again, she would know very well what the BKs' and BK god spirit's attitudes towards marriage and sex were ... and yet
      i) hide them from the non-BK husband
      ii) conned and duped him to tie him into a marriage contract
      iii) knowingly broke solemn religious vows.
The Brahma Kumaris often talk **** in their publicity about how they respect all other religions and religious people.

What, therefore, do Brahma Kumaris adherents make of someone who takes "solemn religious vows", who leads another person of another religion along making them believe they believe in and accept such "solemn religious vows", and then knowingly breaks them?

Look at the reaction of the BKs ... their reaction is not the obviously moral one, "to break a solemn, religious vow is wrong".

Their reactions is like a gang of thieves being caught out thieving. Their reaction is to attack us for exposing one of their thief gang members, and accusing up of being motivated by hate.

They are incapable of considering the moral -- and legal -- aspects of it. Indeed, what the BKs exhibit -- time and time again, in my experience -- is frustration and anger at being bound to the moral and legal codes which bind the rest of society together.

In short, they do not see themselves as being bound by solemn vows to anyone else god, as they do not see those gods as their god; and their god let's they do whatever they want (actually, he probably does not exist and is just a figment of their own minds, but that's a different discussion).
    We have documented here before top Brahma Kumari leaders encouraging adherents that it is accepted to steal "for the sake of service. In fact, that by, e.g. stealing from their place of work, they are doing the business a favour (good karma).

    We have documented here top Brahma Kumari leaders encouraging adherents -- by their example --- to break the law or exploit any possible loopholes internationally when it comes to visa, tax, mortgage and financial issues, and to defend their acquisitions legally.

    We have documented here top Brahma Kumari teachers (center-in-charge) have exploited their positions of the sake of their own comforts that even the organisation itself has had to step in, criticise and remove them.
Therefore, is it any surprise when, at the bottom level of their operation, there is a environment where individual women apply these same principles to their lives and seek unknowing males to exploit in the same way?

I would happy go to court to defend each and every one of the accusations I make -- *WITH EVIDENCE* -- and to state that in this case, whether consciously on the daughter's or mother's behalf or not, this man was being set up to be an ATM cash machine to support the BK woman and BK service probably, I would guess, as the father-in-law is.

Many, many, many Indian males are nothing more than ATM cash machine supporting BK service merely in order to keep the peace in their own home, to save face amongst their own community, or out of last straw of hope that his wife will return to him from the BKs and that he will at least be looked after in his old age, as he looked after his wife and family throughout his life.

I have seen these sad, tired and empty men myself and I am glad to "poison" the mind of individuals such as V87 to save them from it. Unfortunately, it is an unseen army of these human "ATM cash machines" that is really responsible for supporting the BKWSU, not its god and his "miracles". I wish they would stop doing so.

Psychically speaking, Brahma Kumarism is a parasitical form feeding off its lower caste adherents and non-BKs alive; breaking families to steal the lives of children and wives, whose money and energy it feeds upon.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post05 Dec 2015

Is this the Hindu marriage contract? Let's observe how the BKs would view or corrupt them.
The Seven Vows

Groom:
    You will offer me food and be helpful in every way. I will cherish you and provide welfare and happiness for you and our children.
Bride:
    I am responsible for the home and all household responsibilities.
Groom:
    Together we will protect our house and children.
Bride:
    I will be by your side as your courage and strength. I will rejoice in your happiness. In return, you will love me solely.
Groom:
    May we grow wealthy and prosperous and strive for the education of our children. May our children live long.
Bride:
    I will love you solely for the rest of my life, as you are my husband. Every other man in my life will be secondary. I vow to remain chaste.
Groom:
    You have brought sacredness into my life, and have completed me. May we be blessed with noble and obedient children.
Bride:
    I will shower you with joy, from head to toe. I will strive to please you in every way I can.
Groom:
    You are my best friend, and staunchest well-wisher. You have come into my life, enriching it. God bless you.
Bride:
    I promise to love and cherish you for as long as I live. Your happiness is my happiness, and your sorrow is my sorrow. I will trust and honor you, and will strive to fulfill all your wishes.
Groom:
    May you be filled with joy and peace.
Bride:
    I will always be by your side.
Groom:
    We are now husband and wife, and are one. You are mine and I am yours for eternity.
Bride:
    As God is witness, I am now your wife. We will love, honor and cherish each other forever.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post06 Dec 2015

ex-l wrote:This is an important issue, as it against exposes the *true* and largely secret principles of the Brahma Kumaris and their general contempt and disrespect for laws and other people's contracts or vows.

ex-l has often pointed out how the BKs originally would only accept money from those following the BK path i.e. earned from the labour of actual BKs who chose to donate it, knowing where it was going or not.

Originally the whole Om Mandli was funded and fed by the money brought to it by Lekhraj’s wealth and the wealth of those who renounced the world to join his hermetic community, assured that, given the imminent world destruction promised by their ”Prajapati God Brahma”, it would more than suffice.

The first consequence of this God-man’s failure as ”knower of three aspects of time” was that they ran out of money! They say "Necessity is the mother of invention” and in this situation the inventions were new teachings, a new god, a new ethical code and new approach to survival (not to mention a new timeline for the ”Confluence Age” - the scriptures and mythologies skimmed for relevant numbers and hints, the way Christian ”rapturists” scour the bible for clues to the date of the "second coming").

It was at this time that the BKs stopped being independent and autonomous and became ”symbiotic” or ”parasitic” - depending on how you want to see it. The very society they shunned and considered so impure it needed destroying, became their succour. Firstly, during their self-martyrising description of their ”beggary” period (which coincided with massive poverty thoughout India due to WW2 and its effects but which they solipsistically choose to ignore) they were instructed to get support from any 'lokik’ relatives that would help them.

Then proselytisation began, a definite program for expansion. The "chosen few” were obviously too few. All with the aim to ”bring home the daily bread”. The more people they could convert the more streams of income they could tithe. At this stage, it was still only accepted from those who followed Maryadas, i.e. full BKs whose money was accepted or those who expressed their sympathies and made up for their lack of ”willpower” with donations. And as a married couple is a ”unit” it only needs one of them to be a BK to make the other’s earnings acceptable. The sophistry gets more ”sophisticated”.

The denial of dependency often leads to grandiose self-delusion. The BKs were not ”dependent” on anyone but God, they were the ones ”serving humanity” and their God would provide. Philosophically, rationalised sharing the Gyan is creating the unlimited fortune of those who hear it. Using your boss’s equipment or work time "for service” is creating his fortune! So, it becomes a case of fair exchange (sindhi mercantilism again?) - speak or publish Gyan and any sales or donations received are but a token amount in return for the unlimited fortune the recipient has received, whether they accept or practice what they read/ heard or not. Then the whole media side becoems a commercial profit making venture in itself, built on bonded (slave) labour wirth no need to adhere to workplace law or taxation commitments ...

As expansion progresses, funds, landholdings, international travel all increase. What was ”Maya” becomes occasional luxury, then becomes a ‘deserved’ privilege of the Seniors - a sign of respect and becomes ”convention”, which trickles down the hierarchy to middle management (shades of George Orwell’s ”Animal Farm” - where all BKs are equal in god’s eyes, but some are more equal than others). I blame the passage of time for this lapse in moral memory.

But what I want to know is, when did this blatant betrayal of their own principals begin, where a married BK is advised to lie back and "think of England", to bare children, to keep the husband ”happy" enough to keep supporting both his limited family and her ”unlimited” family while the Seniors bask in the superiority of the status their celibacy/prudery/impotence brings? When did the BKs switch from the short game to the long game?

A socio-economic analysis of the BKs' financial activities over time surely demands an analysis of the changes of their principles and ethics at different stages.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post07 Dec 2015

In biology, symbiotic refers to any diverse organisms that live together, but in this case, the relationship is not necessarily beneficial to both. Parasites, for example, have a symbiotic relationship with their hosts, but only the parasite benefits.

I would challenge the BKs to quantify what real benefits they give back to the families and societies they feed off.
Pink Panther wrote:... shades of George Orwell’s ”Animal Farm” ... A socio-economic analysis of the BKs' financial activities over time surely demands an analysis of the changes of their principles and ethics at different stages.

Funnily enough, I was reading about the Brahma Kumaris's "jewel in the crown", their Palladian mansion, the Global Retreat Centre and gardens at Nuneham Courtenay in Oxfordshire England, and wondered how - and with whom - "the pigs" shared the luxury of the old "farmer's house" ... to refer back to Orwell's book.

It was built for the 1st Earl Harcourt who later went on to be the Viceroy of Ireland at the time it was reduced to servitude under English landlords, and suffered the "greatest poverty in Europe". Eye witness accounts of the life of the average Irish tenant farmer confirm that their lives were ones of desperation and deprivation under greedy landowners .. the "horses" and "sheep" of Orwell's allegory.

Harcourt demolished the ancient village of Nuneham Courtenay in the 1760s in order to create a landscaped park around his new "villa", removing the village and villagers entirety. Apparently the poet Oliver Goldsmith witnessed the demolition of the village, and destruction of its farms to clear land to become a wealthy man's garden, and wrote 'The Deserted Village' about it, expressing "a fear that the destruction of villages and the conversion of land from productive agriculture to ornamental landscape gardens would ruin the peasantry.

The later renovation of it was funded by the infamous industrialist J P Morgan and now the BKs enjoy it.
Oliver Goldsmith wrote:The man of wealth and pride
Takes up a space that many poor supplied;
Space for his lake, his park's extended bounds,
Space for his horses, equipage, and hounds:
The robe that wraps his limbs in silken sloth
Has robbed the neighbouring fields of half their growth
Even now the devastation is begun,
And half the business of destruction done;
Even now, methinks, as pondering here I stand,
I see the rural virtues leave the land.

The peasants were driven off the self-sufficient land and forced into poverty in the cities, or to emigrate.
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ex-l

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post07 Dec 2015

Learning Spirit responds with their usual jeers, and offers advice on healing for V78. Apparently, as I am openly critical of the BKWSU, they feel that they does not need to respond to any moral or ethical dimension of V78's experience with the Brahma Kumaris.

Learning Spirit does express any compassion or sympathy for the waste of V78's life and the mental and emotional suffering they have been put through. Nor do they condemn the actions of the BKs involved. A typical BK response.

Perhaps they could expound on how V78 would "healing" the quickest? Perhaps they think that letting the BKs off the hook and not criticising them would do the trick (and suit the BKs too).

Define what's a BK these days?
Learning Spirit wrote:As someone is getting curious with my silence on this topic, ex-l seems happy to have won an argument and so his ego is boosted. OMG, folks I am on a holiday this week :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

One thing ex-l can never give up is to brand everyone who speaks against his arguments to be a BK or BKWSU agent. Now this is a classic approach of people with a propaganda - If you are not with us, you are with the enemy ... If after saying umpteen number of times I am not a BK, they keep branding me as one, any other argument is a waste of time :evil: :evil: :evil: This is to make sure their new members relate only to them and are unable to see any other independent opinions. Infact if one has to research how propaganda works, ex-l is a classic case study. In no time he has convinced V78 that I am on the "other" side. As V78 asked specifically on what these people gain, I don't know about PP; he seems like a sane and rational voice however you simply don't know and understand how ex-l operates. I can only say this, no matter how much grateful are you to ex-l, in the long run it will not help you heal. ex-l can only keep anger and hate alive for longer than you need....

I cannot remember if I branded a Learning Spirit a "BK". I, personally, don't see much difference between a BK follower and a BK apologist, except from the BKs' own point of view ... in which, if they are not following the Maryadas fully, means that they are a lowly, unenlightened souls, still trapped by Maya and their own manmat.

An "end of the Silver Aged soul" at best (meaning that their level of spiritual impurity is such that they will not take the full 84 birth (21 in Heaven) that the BKs leaders believe they will be rewarded with, instead they will miss out on the highest experiences (Golden Age), and only experience a low cast birth or two at the tail end of heaven in Earth.

That is what the BKs actually believe. Whether Learning Spirit is aware of it, and how they really look at them, I have no idea.

For me, what is developing at the present is an aura of self-interested individuals surrounding the Brahma Kumaris who do not follow their disciplines, who are not bound by the same rigorous demands upon their behaviour and attitudes, who act like a sort of "dirty army" that the BKs tolerate as part of their defence mechanism. A lower caste of adherents, made up of supportive ex-BKs, demi-BKs and "cooperative souls" who probably don't know what the BKs really teach and either do free PR for them, or act like "the rabbles" of old, those who used to follow the medieval armies for the sake of whatever they could get out of it or plunder.

I am reminded of the reaction of the REACH Approach people when their leader's connection with the BKWSU was questioned. Maybe the BKs helped them out of some self-destructive behaviour or something too, and they remain indebted to them ... I don't know.

I'd like to read their suggestions as to what V78 should have done, how they manage their BK beliefs and marriage, if they are sexual active, and what their partner thinks about the BKs.

And what they would take done if they had discovered their partner flirting with another BK member for hours at all times of the day.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post08 Dec 2015

Learning Spirit is of that ”ecumenical” ilk that sees acceptance and harmony as requiring the exclusion of pointed precise critiquing or serious analysis in case it offends the subject - people have the right to be wrong and not be faced with why they are wrong as long as they fit certain criteria of "acceptable wrongness". Don’t want to upset anyone! General ethics, actual truth, evidence of harm caused by the wrong are ”subjective", unpleasant therefore invalid viewpoints of antagonists.

It’s an attitude that pretends it's rational within its own world view but is anti-rational when convenient or it clashes with ”feelings”; it’s optimistically accepting when cynicism is required but becomes cynical when passion for objective truth is called for. And all in the name of tolerance and ”being positive (nice)”.

Anything ”negative” is to be positively shunned. It’s an equivocalist or pollyanna-ish position that would allow Creationism taught in science classes because you can’t ”prove" it didn’t happen that way, or would have unpleasant truths removed from history books in case someone is shocked or offended. Such people cannot accept the inherent beauty of tragedy and truth.

They’ll turn away at certain words, regardless of the context, such is their prejudice to the positive. Two women friends who are quite ”new-agey” both squirmed and turned away together when I mentioned the title of a book I was recommending that related to what we were talking about, Kurt Vonnegut’s ”Slaughterhouse 5”. One said, "I could never read a book with that title". As I tried to explain its title in context to a work of great hope, irony, whimsy and insight, they started to talk over me to each other about ... crystals!!

Isaac Asimov, the famous scientist and fiction writer said
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'.”

― Isaac Asimov
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because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

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Re: Marriage in jeopardy

Post10 Dec 2015

Great analysis pink.

But who cares...?

In India, 3/4 th of the Centre-in-Charges are not even well educated to understand this. They are flowed away in the stream of Baba's love and only know how to pull the innocents into this stream. They do not even know how many lives they have spoiled and destroyed. They call it the greatest service.

I never felt such grief and sorrow which I have experienced while in BKs. I was thinking that it's my karma and only through BKs I can get rid of them but, gradually, I learned that it's their karma, their system, their hypocritical nature which is making my life miserable.
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