Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
  • Message
  • Author
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 224
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post08 Oct 2016

Hello Ex-I,

there is communication by thoughts and dreams, even in terms of sexual expressions.

I feel, and it has been my experience, that there is quite some amount of sexual activity among the BKs at the 'soul to soul' or psychic levels and super-psychic levels. It is an out of body experiences or OBE, but it still happens. Sometimes, when the love expressions cannot be done at the physical level, it is done at the metaphysical, away from the physical eyes of the public and social taboos, such as a Brother and a center-in-charge, whose brains may be running on sex hormones instead of Yoga power.

Soulmateship can be powerful.

There is the soulmateship of family members and soulmateship at work. Then there is the soulmateship in spiritual communities, that are quite complicated. From my experiences in the BK community, soulmateship has the glue of some of the strongest and sometimes strange karmic connections.

It will be the mistake of any newcomer in the BK culture to think that the BK connections are simply 'soul to soul'. Even within the inner circle, consistent with the principles of soulmateship, there are many karmic bonds between souls.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post08 Oct 2016

there are many karmic bonds between souls
When one’s whole world view looks past the blatantly obvious of the here & now and what’s visible to anyone with eyes and half a brain and, instead, is based on the ego-wish for the unending continuation of self, a conjecture that requires all kinds of elaborations to stay ‘cohesive’ hence relies on one unproven and unprovable supposition to support another unproven unprovable supposition, one lives in a circle of tremulous hope indeed. And that’s what the BKs - and others of their ilk - do.

I will say it again as I have said before - there is not enough time in a day, a week or a lifetime to improve and perfect our life skills at living according to what is undeniably true and non-speculative, so to accept and live by unsubstantiatable suppositions distracts and takes away from our most valuable time.

Do I need to be a ”soul” to be kind, generous, hard-working and helpful person?
Do I need to be a ”soul” to not be a mean-spirited self-serving taker, exploitative, narcissistic pretence of a human being?
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post08 Oct 2016

And what about for individuals who the other "realms" are part of their "here and now"?

Or even those who have highly vivid dreams?

I must admit other "realms" are not part of my here and now but I have had, and continue to have, dreams of such vividness that I find them difficult to belief they are some kind of further extension of reality. Ones in which I have awareness and can make "conscious" decisions etc.

Of course, yes, one could also see them, reductively, as wishfulfilment (as you could Gupta's suggestion), mere neurons firing off randomly or the brain attempting to order information etc. "Vivid" coming from vivere meaning ‘to live’. I would accept they can be that too.

But something I take from what Gupta wrote is that rather than "sex" or "sexual expression" what we are talking is spiritual intercourse by which I mean 'spirit to spirit' intercourse.

From that perspective, I could say all physical sex is 'spirit to spirit' intercourse (both good and bad). Two spirits doing with, or doing it to, another spirit using the body as a conduit or a tool.

What Gupta is suggesting is that the 'spirit to spirit' intercourse happens without the physical body, even amongst BKs, perhaps is a more subtle body (the concept of which does not really exist within BKism).

That would then open the door to both good and bad spirit to spirit intercourse from pleasurable and uplifting to abusive linking us back to a sort of unspoken tantric element within the BK (by which I mean a control and taking of energies from other individuals within the group to empower the self).

Is their god spirit and are their leaders realling giving and channeling, or block and controlling all other "leakages" (to non-BKs, through sex and familial love etc) to feed off them during the "yogic" exchange?

The BK salespitch is (approximately "we've all live 84 lives and had lots of relationships with each other therefore we have all sorts of entanglements with each other to work through" ... therefore, those feelings are not 'real' or worthwhile, they are just old relationships; mother-child, husband-wife, lover-cuckold, victim-abuser etc.

That, in itself, is even based on the foundation of their beliefs that the purest, highest, oldest and most spiritual "84 birth" souls in the world never even took births away from the immediate company of Lekhraj Kirpalani!

It like, "if you're having that feeling of love and attraction, it's not real and to be enacted, it's just an old memory; and if you do follow it, you'll be falling backwards into hell".

OK ... so some BKs have dreams of intercourse with other BKs, which might be actually soul to soul exchanges. Has anyone ever checked in with the other party to find out if they were having the same?

As an aside, I know many BKs have dreams of BK leaders checking into their dreams, albeit not alway hot ones. Who have you ever dreamt of and what occured? (We can split the topic).
Offline
User avatar

Mr Green

ex-BK

  • Posts: 1856
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post08 Oct 2016

Haha, imagine that!

I liked her company, not sure she felt the same way!!!
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post09 Oct 2016

And what about for individuals who the other "realms" are part of their "here and now"

Valid question.

One must look "dispassionately” or "disinterestedly” before leaping to conclusions, i.e. unusual and unexpected phenomena happen. It's the explanations of them that get people into or out of trouble.

Talked about this the other night with some friends. The curtains moved. Did they? Did everyone see it or just one person? Clearly, or out of the corner of their eye? Was it a ghost? A message awaited from beyond? A mouse? An otherwise imperceptible gust through the house? A car door outside? Anyone see or hear anything specific?

What can be agreed - by those who saw it - for certain, is one thing, the curtains moved. Anything else is conjecture and supposition.

Should I change my values and actions based on that? Am I looking for that 'event' to give me a reason to change my values and actions? Or to not change? Is there some belief I need to affirm or deny, to confirm my biases?

IMO, the way we want to explain such a thing tells us more about ourselves than about the thing, in a way, just like dreams.

In other words - what does it matter that the curtains moved, or you saw an aura of light in meditation? it's what you do with it that matters.

In the past, people got sick and they blamed evil spirits or ”infuenza”, i.e. the influence of the stars. These days we'd say a virus is responsible. Aren't ‘viruses' in a way just a new name for 'evil spirits' because we have now seen them in a microscope, although we still don’t fully understand them?

The sickness is still the same. The remedy may include prayer for a Christian, the BK will remember Baba, the animist will do his ritual, the consumer will take paracetomol or other ineffective medication - all according to their beliefs (and the benefit of placebo is not to be sneezed at!! ;-) ), but in the end all will agree that bed rest and lots of warm fluids is better than no rest and no fluids. That’s where I am coming from, if that makes sense.
Offline

onthor

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: 22 Nov 2016

Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post23 Nov 2016

ex-l did not wrote:... Is there not a "tantric" element to BKism? What makes me laugh is that, on one hand, BK say they are not allowed to make love because it will make them "impure" and get in the way of their purifying remembrance ... but, on the other hand, they are perfectly allowed to cheat and steal, defraud tax and visa department etc, lie to government and outsiders, and so on and that's OK ...
I apologise for stripping that section out form ex-l's post and so leaving myself open to the accusation of taking the words out of context and using them for an unintended purpose, but now that am out of the BK organisation I see the above as highlighting a wilfully selective attitude toward what they term 'sinful conduct'.


Really, how can sex as an integral expression of a couple's love for each other be regarded as 'dirty? While all manner of questionable corporate activities are somehow OK under the banner of Godly service? I NEVER did experience any form of sexual charge whilst meditating.

What is it that happens when we sit in remembrance of that deceased man? Is it a form of spirito-sexual vampirism?
And while I again wonder what the BK spook benefits from our being celibate, I am also mindful that there are hundreds of prepubescent boys and girls the world over habitually 'opening up their psychic energies and channels' to largely unknown forces. Is this any different from a parent teaching their child to say their homage to 'gentle Jesus' in prayer before bedtime?

And I seem to remember that at least once per year we would be regaled with stories of Mama and her picture would be trotted out and positioned as a 'focal point during for our meditation'. Would it be out of place to wonder if (having had the Brahma Baba remembrance program honed into our psyche for 364 days of the year) the one day Mama's remembrance gig facilitated some sort of spirito-sexual union between her and Mr. Lekhraj via us students?

Too many silly questions I suppose.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post24 Nov 2016

Really, how can sex as an integral expression of a couple's love for each other be regarded as 'dirty?

Well, any behaviour or activity is a kind of technology, a means to an end. And we know any technology can be applied for the good or used for ill.

Some are inherently good, designed to be useful and are mostly ‘used' for good by the majority - but, occasionally, they are ”ab-used”, i.e. used not as intended, for harm, e.g. a kitchen knife.

Some are inherently bad or dangerous but can, with care, be used for benefit, e.g. most medicines, radioactive isotopes etc.

Sex can be beautiful or ugly, inspired or mechanical, generous or selfish, and so on. The BK view is a form of the Hindu Brahmanic tradition. It grows out of the dualist views of the universe - all things get categorised as pure/true/desirable or impure/false/undesirable, or somewhere in between - m’eh (respectively Satoguni, Tamoguni, Rajoguni). This categorisation lends itself supporting dogmatic hierarchy and any status quo built on that. A weapon to judge, intimidate, dominate those who do not conform.

Tantric yogis on the other hand, both Hindu and Buddhist, tend to non-dualism and consider all things are but aspects of a whole, and any evaluation has to be according to context and appropriateness, the simple measure being whether it helped or hindered the bringing of insight, calm, freedom etc.

Of things that cause disturbance (which means intensification of turbulence, hence turbidity) the desire for sex is probably the most innate and powerful of impulses. But it is one thing to label it ”evil’, ‘sin’ or dangerous only because it has not been tamed, and quite another to see it for what it is, and tame it, harness it.

A bit like any appetite. Many BKs would do well to apply the brakes to other appetites, even ahead of sex!
Offline

onthor

  • Posts: 78
  • Joined: 22 Nov 2016

Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post24 Nov 2016

ex-l wrote:Do either of you think there could be any tantric-like exchange of sexual energies between Lekhraj Kirpalani or BapDada and his inner circle? Not "sex" but whatever you call that energy?

The BKs want to simplify or dumb down the entire equation to "body + soul" and not acknowledge anything spiritual in between ... but I've often wondered - if there is such a thing as Lekhraj Kirpalani/BapDada - whether it is just keeping itself afloat by drawing on all sorts of other psychic energies from its adherents?

Wow! I hadn't even seen this post on the topic when I posted. How weird. Yes, I do now believe that the Lekhraj Kirpalani/BapDada entity does draw on our energies. When I was in Gyan I never really thought much abut this angle. It would be really interesting if active students would come and share their experiences/ideas in these areas on the site.

Thanks to you both for keeping this one alive.

6638
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post24 Nov 2016

Pink Panther wrote:A bit like any appetite. Many BKs would do well to apply the brakes to other appetites, even ahead of sex!

Are you suggesting in a psycho-analytical way that the suppressed collective sexual energy of BKs is being channelled into other "lusts", such as the lust for money, power and influence?

... That "new centres" or "new BKs" are to the Kirpalani Klan what, say, new shoes and handbags are to other gold digging women?
The BK view is a form of the Hindu Brahmanic tradition. It grows out of the dualist views of the universe

I cannot disagree with that but I see it having a *much* narrow root based on Lekhraj Kirpalani's personal conception of sex - and, in particular, his reaction to a handful of instances, e.g.

    a) His whoring his daughter out in "marriage" to his caste community leader's family - one has to presume for the sake of money and status (which remain Kirpalani Klan motivations) - and, I suspect, her reaction to it and the sex it included (remember, his taking her back was one of the key instigators in the whole anti-Om Mandli backlash
    b) His community's reaction ... nay, India's reaction (it became international news) to his period of sensual indulgences playing God Krishna to his gopis (which included at least semi-naked bathing and lying around in the same "cot" with his teenage and young women followers and more)
    c) His past in Calcutta (remember his partner describing him as "not a moral man" in the court depositions), and 'perhaps',
    d) His own sexual history.
What percentage was immediately personal and what percentage cultural. Not even religious.

I mean, are arrange marriages not, in essence, largely just community sanctioned rape in which the young virgins ... and let's be honest, he did have a thing about virgins ... are commodities.

Proposing BKism and godhood to be his a multi-millionaire sized mid-life crisis, it kind of feels to me he did not really love and have any attraction for his wife, and only felt love for the first time with teenage Om Radhe ... and translated that into a Krishna and his Gopis, or Lakshmi/Narayan, fantasy in order to sanction it.

I mean, a multi-millionaire having "bunga bunga" parties, including semi-naked baths and lying around with a circle of teenage girls would draw condemnation even in the West even today, as Silvio Berlusconi learnt, never mind India of the 1930s. And forget India of the 1930s.

But pose it as "I am Krishna and they are my Gopis so it is OK", and you're already into the midst of an traditional religiousity (traditionally, Krishna worship and devotional eroticism are not entirely separate).

Real history records Lekhraj Kirpalani as not being as religiously enlightened as the BKs like to portray him and not having been schooled or initiated into any tradition. One real world academic, with some specialism in the area, suggested that the orthodox religious influences within his cult came from his wife's side, a simple take of a simple tradition, the Vallabachyan tradition (Krishna worship).

I think the BKs well over play Lekhraj Kirpalani's "religiousness" and that the simplistic adoption of a celibacy, and the re-dressing of the cult as being monastic, were merely a reaction to his society's condemnation of his early form. In short, that he and they play up "being Brahmin" for the sake of acceptance and to avoid criticisms; and to understand the BKs relationship with sex, we have to understand Lekhraj Kirpalani complications around the issue.

Remember Lekhraj Kirpalani himself enjoy a sex life late into his life siring children from his "brood mare". For example, how did he feel later on - after the Om Mandli madness - at having dumped his legal wife who he sexed right into his 40s, to take on his teenage spiritual eternal wife who he may well have or was at least physically and emotionally affectionate with

(Again, remember, in the court proceedings, there were the account - and a photo - of Lekhraj Kirpalani passing food mouth to mouth with Om Radhe, sitting her on his lap, which she did not deny at all but saw no wrong in - and later their "spiritual marriage").

It's a damn shame we are not told the entire truth about him and their past in order to untangle the BK present.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1412
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post25 Nov 2016

ex-l wrote:Are you suggesting in a psycho-analytical way that the suppressed collective sexual energy of BKs is being channelled into other "lusts", such as the lust for money, power and influence?

Different appetites, desires, needs for different people I’d say.
    - for position, status, ‘name’
    - for acknowledgement
    - for validation of a worthwhile life through an externally defined certainty, outlined by ‘rules”, rather than trying to work out for oneself if one is doing the best thing
    - for company and relationships built on a 3rd-party commonality, without the tensions & demands of direct one-on-one relating (thereby avoiding rejection).
    - to fulfil childhood conditioning whilst seeming independent, seeming distinct from parents e,g, religious conditioning
    - to fill childhood voids - surrogate for a physically or emotionally absent Father, mother, siblings or community
    - to disengage from or avoid the demands of working toward a long term future, study, career, retirement
But actually, when I wrote that, I was meaning food!
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9581
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: Sex and who the BK God Spirit really is?

Post25 Nov 2016

As, at least in the West, the Brahma Kumaris become more accommodating of adherents, or 'useful' part-time adherents, marrying and carrying on relationships one thing I think they don't do well is quantify how "bad" the bad.

Or perhaps, internally, their just giving up the pretense that it all matters ...

In our day, and still in India I suspect, I'd say it was a simple black and white ... 100% bad, "worse than murder" to quote the quote.

These days a sex life appears to be more open to negotiation depending on how useful you and your contacts/skills/ideas are to the cult.

Of course, a lot of pressure in this area is relieved (pun intended) when most of your adherents, as in the West, are increasing old, entiring into their retirement age and far less likely to be picked up anyway.

It strikes me, "victory over lust" is almost meaningless when there's no chance of you actually getting it up/in or pulling in the first place, so ain't it all just about old folk controlling libidinous young folk in order to keep them in place servicing them?
Previous

Return to Newcomers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests