Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

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sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post23 Dec 2016

Although the new Kalpa (cycle) starts with the birth of prince Krishna, the Golden Age starts only after his coronation and he is called shri Narayan thereafter. When is his marriage as per gnan after/during/before coronation?

sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post23 Dec 2016

I have another doubt regarding Kalpa Vriksha, Tree of Humanity. Actually, I feel in The Tree each 'birth of a soul' and not 'soul' is represented as each leaf/part of trunk/root/branch ...

Same soul is in roots (BKs), golden trunk eight times, silver trunk 12 times and in various religions 63 times; a non BK soul won't be there in roots/trunk but in various branches for 63 to 1 time depending on its number of births

The Tree representation is not wrong, it is an inverted tree with seed ShivBaba at its top followed by BKs, then trunk of Golden Age dieties then trunk of Silver Age dieties then branches of various Copper Age religions then branches of ironage religions each branching out into various sub-branches of cults and sects.

This represents:
(1) symbolic representation of reduction in the stage of consiousness as one proceeds from seed ShivBaba to root BK souls to Golden Age consciousness gradually dcreasing and becoming silver to religious fathers consciousness in copper and iron ages i.e gradual descent of consciousness level from diamond to golden to silver copper to iron
(2) connection/links of various souls bk-baba, golden-bk, silver-golden, religious people to religious fathers, *religious fathers to Silver Age since first they come into Silver Age souls (christ into jesus, Buddha into siddharta ...).

This is important since souls in Soul World might not be arranged as tree but most likely as roots and branches without the trunk ...

Friend

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post23 Dec 2016

re: Dadis, I did not mean that their spiritual (or psychic ... I am not in a position to know) influence on people is a proof of anything ... it's just very impressive. To me, at least.

About the population, I believe that since the degrees decrease continuously, and not once after each Age's passing, the number of children couples have in Silver Age are not the same throughout the Age. They might have 3 kids at the beginning of the Silver Age and at the end they might have 5, 6 or more. At the beginning of Silver Age we have 14 celestial degrees and at the end, I think, 10? Also, maybe at some point during the Golden Age the degrees decrease to 15 so they might have more than 2 kids even from the Golden Age. Though, if my calculations are correct, the 900,000 people at the beginning would mean 1,800,000 at the end, given a 1 couple/2 kids formula.

Another things I want to say is that, I think Golden Age (or some version of it) is highly likely to come. Many spiritual teachers have talked about it, even if they believe in very diferent things from what BKs believe. And they also talk about World War III and the death of the majority of humans.

But it's hard for me to believe that in 484 BC Heaven (or at least semi-Heaven) existed here on Earth.
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ex-l

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post23 Dec 2016

A crore is 10,000,000. A lakh is 100,000 ...? Do they say 30,000,000 for the end of Golden Age these days?

Yes, I understand the population would fluctuate up and down as two were born and two died but, ultimately, two were born/two died equals the same.

Also, if there are 900,000 all born together at 1/1/1 ... do they all have children at the same time and die at the same time? Or do some of the 900,000 come late to the party? Does one parent die earlier than the others (i.e. men less than women, at less than 150 years?).

Dates: 1/1/1 ... ... 1/1/37.5 ... .....1/1/39 ... ...... 1/1/150

900,000 ... first child 1,350,000 ... second child 1,800,000 ... death of parents 900,000.

What a bizarre society ... population explosion doubling it ... then mass death.


The honest truth is, I have forgotten whether such specific details existed in the Murlis. They may well be on this forum from a much earlier date ... and, of course, some BKs have proposed purely conjectural figures attempting to make the figures work. I remember someone saying that towards the end of the Silver Age as "decline" satart to enter, perfect balance was effected and they started having 3 children.

I think that was just one BK's theory to try and explain the population growth. Otherwise, how can it grow? Two born, two die ... same number.

I have also noticed changes in the prediction, e.g. we have a problem with Krishna being born in time for the beginning of the Golden Age which is said to start in 2036 when he is crowned as Emperor.

I've never heard of the 37.5 years figure ... but if it was true that means Krishna was born in 1998.

And if each imperial couple only rules for 75 years ... then they'd need 16 ruling couples to keep the continuation of the dynasty running. Not 8 as they claim.

Friend

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post23 Dec 2016

I know for certain (and it's been mentioned here) that at the end of the Silver Age there will be 330 million people on Earth.
What I think is the case with the Golden Age is: You get born, you get married and become an emperor/empress at 75 and die at 170. I think you have kids a little while after you get married. First a son, and then a daughter. Not entirely sure I remember correctly, though.
So, 450,000 couples have 2 kids each, which mean that, for 75 years, we'll have 1,800,000 people. Then....I give up.

If Golden Age starts at 2036 then the Silver Age ended in 464 BC. :/
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ex-l

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

If you are in contact with the BKs, please ask them what is the most recent version for the sake of clarity. I think you mean 150, not 170. I've never heard 170.
Friend wrote:Though, if my calculations are correct, the 900,000 people at the beginning would mean 1,800,000 at the end, given a 1 couple/2 kids formula.

... Then the day afterwards all the 150 year old parents die and it is back down to 900,000 again.

A crore is 10,000,000. A lakh is 100,000 ...? Do they say 30,000,000 for the end of Golden Age these days?

Yes, I understand the population would fluctuate up and down as two were born and two died but, ultimately, two were born/two died equals the same.

Also, if there are 900,000 all born together at 1/1/1 ... do they all have children at the same time and die at the same time? Or do some of the 900,000 come late to the party? Does one parent die earlier than the others (i.e. men less than women, at less than 150 years?).

Dates: 1/1/1 ... ... 1/1/37.5 ... .....1/1/39 ... ...... 1/1/150

900,000 ... first child 1,350,000 ... second child 1,800,000 ... death of parents 900,000.

What a bizarre society ... a population explosion doubling society ... and then a mass death halving it. Let's agree on an average figure of around 1,500,000 to account for some irregularity in the rythmn of life and death. And then try and work out how we get to 330,000 million in another 1,250 years.

On one hand, I've certainly never heard of them having 5 or 6 kids; on the other hand, I have heard of people suggesting they have twins. I think that is a PBKism.

The honest truth is, I have forgotten whether such specific details existed in the Murlis. They may well be on this forum from a much earlier ... and, of course, some BKs have their own manmat figures trying to make them work out. I remember someone saying that towards the end of the Silver Age as "decline" satart to enter, perfect balance was effected and they started having 3 children.

I think the 3 figure was just one BK's theory to try and explain the population growth. Otherwise, how can it grow? Two born, two die = same number.

Since my day, they have also changed the ages for marriage and coronation because of the problem of Destruction not happening in 1976 or 1986 and Lekhraj Kirpalani not being reborn as Krishna.

I have also noticed changes in that prediction, ie Krishna being born in time for the beginning of the Golden Age which is said to start in 2036 when he is crowned as Emperor.

I've never heard of the 37.5 years figure ... but if it was true surely that means Krishna was born in 1998?

And if each imperial couple only rules for 75 years ... then they'd need 16 ruling couples to keep the continuation of the dynasty running. Not 8 as they claim.

You see, it's all scrappy and confused as hell.

What is it was just Lekhraj Kirpalani trying to include all the traditional numbers and make sense of them, e.g. 8, 108, 16,108, 33 Crore, 5,000 years, 4 ages etc etc etc ... are all just traditional numbers.

Lekhraj Kirpalani's obsession, as a jeweller and businessman, was that he loved regularity and symmetry and just tried to create a cosmic model that was regular and symmetrical and he had no one around him with any brains and education to question and challenge him.

I am sorry to say it so bluntly but I feel like it is trying to make sense of an autistic patient's state of mind. There is no sense to it. It just does not work out. Do you know how autistic people love order and detail?

You can grasp the entire Knowledge in your mind, know every bit of it (there's actually not a lot to hold in your mind, the Murlis are *very* repetitive) but really all you are doing is working out the logic of Lekhraj Kirpalani's obsessive-compulsive disorder. An obsessive-compulsive disorder based on his cultural background.

For me, Lekhraj Kirpalani was a little mentally ill. He was highly functional, he had his wealth and experience to support his condition of playing god to a diminishing circle of women (the community shrank from 100s down to 10s of followers), but he had cracked at some point. Perhaps after going to see the saddhu.

An old Mount Abu resident used to say this of him, how in the middle of a conversation he would switch off and drift away. The BKs try and make this out to be some mystical wonder ... but, on the other hand, it migt have just been a kind of mental illness.

Their money business, their income stream, their food and shelter is based on making Lekhraj Kirpalani look mystical, appear like a superman god figure ... and they are getting worse and worse at it with those huge figures they make of him.

I think the 'mental illness theory' is the far more rational conclusion.

In my opinion ... and this is just opinion ... he went to see the saddhu. The saddhu blew his mind somehow, e.g. by giving him some too strong siddhi he was not ready for. And afterwards, being without group/peer support such as a religious order, he tried to make sense of it all by himself and came up with the nonsense he did.

Historically, we know his family thought he had lost his mind and sent him away. Even the BKs admit that. There are many reports of him retreating away or "switching off" in company. Such symptoms are noted in other traditions, e.g. the dangers of uncontrolled kundalini rising. I think something like that happened to him.

BKism is just trying to make up a story to make sense of it, and to cover it up the mental illness which in India carries a bad stigma.

Many mentally ill people are highly creative, inspired and do great things, it comes with the territory, e.g. with episodic manic depressives.

But we have to be sensible to separate the brillance from the illness ... and not catch it from them!

Friend

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

Yeah, I meant "150". Sorry.

Whether Gyan is true or not, I do maintain that it doesn't come from Lekraj's mind. I am positive there is another being that gave the information/visions just like with Abraham Hicks, Bashar, Kryon etc.

I don't want to ask any of my BK friends because I don't want to jeopardise my friensdhip with them. They know I am not a believer and they respect that. They had their experiences and that is enough for them to believe, even if they don't know how all the dots get connected.

I have to say that I admire the BKs faith and effort they put because of it. Sure, for some it's the ambition of becoming a high and mighty king of kings, but for many it's the purity and the love that attract them.

I am quite interested in what human being said about the connection to Baba. He talked exactly as a BK would talk and I am not sure he realised it. Well, maybe he did. He said that there is a 'Baba' to which one can connect and draw energy from. So there *is* a source but it's not God? Is it the Source as Abraham (Hicks) describe(s) it? aka be aligned with The Source, get in The Vortex etc. I am very interested in hearing human being's or anyone's opinion on that.
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ex-l

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

I could accept that there is another, or even more than one other, being or "intelligence" involved as per the characters you mention ... but I am very cautious of such influences.

Indeed, I'd be a lot less critical of the BKs is they downgraded their particular beings or "intelligences" from being 'the supreme god' to just being some other "channelled being".

At some point they might have to stop claiming it is the one and only god.

For me, all the grandiosity and exaggeration, all the delusions of grandeur (claiming to be gods etc) is just part of Lekhraj Kirpalani's state of mind. For some psychological reason, he had to feel like he was a Krishna or Vishnu. Is that spiritual?

Lekhraj Kirpalani lost his mother early in his life, did not he? (check fact, please ... when?).

Perhaps it was psychological effect from that? For a mother, a son would have been a little prince, a Krishna, and he would have been loved like a little prince. If so, the loss of that love may have had had a strong effect upon.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

ex-l wrote: What is it was just Lekhraj Kirpalani trying to include all the traditional numbers and make sense of them, e.g. 8, 108, 16,108, 33 Crore, 5,000 years, 4 ages etc etc etc ... are all just traditional numbers.

Exactly. Until recently, mathematics and numerology were simultaneously precise and ”magical” - filled with symbolism. In the way astronomy and astrology used to be one field of study. History, historical fact was mixed up with legend, mythology, scripture. .

Lekhraj Kirpalani’s (and all BKs”) attempts to reconcile indisputable facts with beleif leads to this endless rationalisation with a selective logic that only makes sense to those who want it to be true.

NB the word ”belief” is from ‘lief” - an old word for ”love”.
So we all ”believe in" what we 'love’ , what we want to be true. For some, belief in an ideology is superior to facts, proofs, science, maths. When that happens, you ignore what is staring you in the face and aim to prove your ideal.

This approach is perfectly exemplified by the way the belief in ”perfection” and ’the ideal” by the followers of Plato could not accept that heavenly bodies moved in any shape other than a circle - the most ”perfect” shape in their minds. As they were dominant intellectually, it denied any validity of those* who observed and calculated ellipses and had worked out that the solar system was heliocentric, not geocentric, and as they influenced Christianity (the philosophical underpinnings of the Christian church were mostly Platonic) the accepted truth was that earth was the centre of the solar system/universe and it remained that way till well after Galileo.

Today we see creationists calibrating any truth to what they believe - a literal interpretation of Genesis, we see ISIL calibrating their truth to Wahhabbi interpretations of Islam, we see voting populations calibrating their truth to believe the side of politics they have sworn allegiance to regardless of evidence and facts, and we see this endless BK reconfiguring of Gyan in the face of predictions which have become disproven as ’the future' becomes history.


All such approaches ”miss the point”. Truth is found in an intelligent grasp of Reality. They are separate, but related.
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao;
..... The named is the mother of ten thousand (meaning ‘countless”) things.


This has been understood by ”mystics” everywhere. The ”My-” in ”mystic” means ”sshh” - ”no words, no formulations” - a mystic is one who comprehends truth is beyond description, cannot be talked about without distorting or misrepresenting it.

It is the same as the Japanese”mu” used in in Zen teachings, meaning ”ineffable”.

It is the same as the ”Mu-” in the word ”muni” found in India, to mean a ”silent sage”. e.g. Gautama Siddhartta (the Buddha) is known as ”Shakya Muni” - the silent sage of the Shakya clan.

Where views differ, we have disputed truth. Where views overlap, we have consensus truth.

As the unarmed Zen abbott told the master swordsman who asked him what ‘school' he belonged to when he could not touch him in a sparring duel - ”I belong to the school of horizontal eyes and vertical noses” (i.e. a human being).

sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

Most likely two kids for few dieties and three for others such that finally the population counts to 3 crore at end of Golden Age and 33 crore at end of Silver Age.

I feel 8 ratan would incarnate 8 times in Golden Age (8x150=1200yrs), 4 times as male and four times as female and would rule as emperor shri Narayan for 75 years and as empress shri lakshmi for 75 years, i.e 4 couples would rule - each couple repeating twice with roles of shri lakshmi & shri Narayan exchanged.

sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post24 Dec 2016

What are your thoughts about Bhog sandesh ... sandeshis/trance messengers seem genuine and messages seem authentic.
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ex-l

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post26 Dec 2016

sukshmbindu wrote:I feel 8 ratan would incarnate 8 times in Golden Age (8x150=1200yrs), 4 times as male and four times as female and would rule as emperor shri Narayan for 75 years ...

But 8 x 75 means 600 years ... so there must be 16 couples to rule 1,250 years. 16.6 to be specific.

Born 0 ... Married 37.5 ... Crowned 75 ... but then kids reach 75 when parents reach (at least) 115 and must, hence retire to allow next generation to rule.

Otherwise, how can someone rule from birth (0) ... until death (150) ... and give birth at the point of death to the next generation who rules from their birth (0)?

"8x150=1200yrs" ... 1,250 years divide by 8 equal 156.25 ... yet the BK say lives become progressively shorter as the Kalpa progresses.

None of it adds up. Can you see that? You say you "feel", sustaining the illusion for yourself, but how can you "feel" something that happened 5,000 years ago?

So explain 8 Emperors and 8 generations fitting into 1,250 ... 75 years of someone ruling and 75 years of no one ruling?

Does it make sense? It really doesn't ... doesn't it?

It's just a fairy story made out of other older fairy stories by jeweller who was obsessed by symmetry, simplicity and regularity.

In another post, you linked to an Esther Hicks video. Esther Hicks is another spiritualist medium, or channeller, who "interprets" a group of spirit entities who speak to her which she calls "Abraham", after the founder of the Judeo-Christian line of religions.
Abraham have described themselves as "a group consciousness from the non-physical dimension" ... the energy of source.

Are you studying suksh, or do you have a job or a career in real life? Your interests appear to be very ungrounded or "otherworldly". I used to be like that. In the long run it was not good for me. I wasted a lot of my life on unworldly things, like BKism, and neglected worldly ones.

If you are asking my personal opinion, I've explored spiritualism and channelling and the only things that's reliable about spiritualist and channeller is that, ultimately, they are unreliable. They tell you what you want to hear. They tell you nice sounding things that comfort and flatter you. Then, as they slowly take control over your life ... selling you books and tapes and courses and taking donations on the way ... they mislead you terribly.

It seems to be me ... and it's a philosophically classical position ... that such "earth bound spirits" are parasitical in nature. That they are actually feeding off our spiritual energy, just as the organizations they build feed off your money.

But strangely, like pathological liars in real life, they seem to drop clues to their deception, like those above.

Then our human nature wants to fill in the gaps, excuse the mistakes, "correct" the failed predictions and so on.

There's a really good book about channeling called 'The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts: A Riveting Investigation Into Channeling and Spirit Guides (2001)' by Joe Fisher. He was someone who rather than just be seduced by a "channeled spirit" ... and, yes, they and the phenonema can be fascinating ... he actually followed up and researched all the claims and predictions they made to see if they were true and. Strangely, discovered that although they often contained true facts ... ultimately, they were all false constructions. Then when he challenged the spirits they became angry with him.

We cannot tell if the BapDada is the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani or some other being or beings. We cannot tell if the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani is the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani or just memory, or some other being or beings pretending to be the deceased Lekhraj Kirpalani. It's pointless to pretend in it.

We need to forget about what we are told it or they are, and look at the evidence we can see and measure in the real world.

sukshmbindu

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post26 Dec 2016

50 years in iron age and 50 years in Golden Age account to Confluence Age, so Golden Age is only for 1200yrs. yes, most likely 16 couples with each asth ratan getting a chance to rule 4 time twice as shri lakshmi and twice as shri Narayan with a tenure of 75 years each time (assuming 5000 year cycle to be true)

i am a mechanical engineer, worked as a design engineer for 3.5 years, now free as such started stock market trading recently (~2 weeks ago), i am also learning TCM (total Chinese acupressure medicine) course, I am also intrerested in the subject of organ regeneration http://www.organregeneration.com.au/wha ... ation.html

As far as the 'Golden Age', I am quite optimistic about it since many are prophesising and promising its advent, but as far as
'apocalypse' there are various versions, but I have read in a book "my life - its legacy and message' by Pandit Shriram Sharma Acharya that there will never be a destruction of world, but there will be a transition to Golden Age, even Ramtha says so ... as my contribution I am doing visualisations of giving love energy to 5 elements and souls and apologising for the misuse and abuse caused by humanity (in a way spiritual hopoponopono "I am sorry, please forgive me, thank you & I love you "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RduJX-BmLa8) and sometimes doing BK visualisations of dieties, angels soul.

I have read/felt PBKs meditate to destroy the old world so that the new world emerges from its remnants, but this is a direly misunderstood concept. As far as I understand BK Baba says, "world transformation through self transformation - so work on self perfection/sampoornta", "give all your negativity to me (Shiv Baba) and take all positivity from me", "meditate on me and I will purify your thoughts, intentions and sanskars"... the visions of world Destruction Dada Lekhraj/Brahma Baba saw are possibilities if the world continues in the same way, i.e. it was a projection of future possibility, but there is divine intervention through ShivBaba and various channels and mediums and lot of awareness about positive thinking + we being the creators of our destiny + Law of Karma & reincarnation and the necessity to act resposibility of our cations and intentions .. so I believe there are better times ahead with a lot of harmony and love everywhere.

I find reading spiritual literature interesting, found a lot of rich content on this website, got introduced to Abraham Hicks (I watched "The Secret" movie at BK retreat centre, read that ebook and knew about 'Law of Attraction' but did not know that Abraham Hicks was the true source for that concept), Sirius, Ramtha (I read Ramtha book ~9 years back but started listening to youtube videos recently after reading a post here) and much more info about brahmakumaris - its history, early days ..

Good to get so much information and so many ideas.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Post26 Dec 2016

Sukhshmbindu,

As I read your post of what you’ve been reading and listening to, the following occurred to me: - There are so many variations of the ”spiritual” path that are based on belief that there's ”something else” we are not seeing or experiencing, and the people you mention all have their different variations on what that ”something else” is - albeit with some crossover.

Then there is the ”spiritual” path that is based on the view that such beliefs that keep telling us about the ”something else” actually blind us or distract us from seeing and experiencing the richness and fullness of ”this thing” called our life and our reality. It is often calling to us to be given more attention but it’s ignored by us because we are distracted by the ”something else” that we’ve been told about by those with something to sell, or who have a need to convince others( i.e. they cannot just [i]live their truth, they have to keep proving it to themselves through convincing others - the selling of it is how they live it.[/i]).
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