Other modalities of meditations/philosophies you like

Please, do tell - which subtle and refined scientific discovery or invention is due to BKs?

i attended a class for engineers in Saraswati Bhavan in Mahuban (March,2009), Mount Abu. There a senior BK Brother name Krishna Bhai told lot of correlations between the BK movement and scientific discoveries/inventions .. like Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC) being established after the Yagya got started, and many others with dates, i don't recall all other references but am convinced by his version ..

Frankly my parents/in-laws don't allow me to study BK philosophy so i am not upated about the BK events or activities ... but I read Murlis once in a while.

i feel we should all think positive and live positively with love towards our fellow Brothers an Sisters and whatever philosophy preaches love, harmony, poitive thinking should be encouraged and adopted .. i, personally, found BK philosophy very divine and positive .. if you don't like BK meditation or philosophy it's your personal choice, nothing wrong about it ...

Can it be true?

i practise whatever comes in Murli as viualization .. and there are panch swaroop (5 forms)

1. Brahmin(in Confluence Age)
2. angel (in Subtle Region)
3. anadi swaroop (soul in Soul World)
4. diety (in golden an silver ages)
5. pujya (worhipped demi gods in copper and iron ages) ..

But how we visualise is subjected to variations based on indiviual's imagination.



Another video


to ex-l:

1. how do you practise meditation ... I read in one of your posts that you would give visions of hanuman and some other gods, how did you practise meditation then ... soul in Soul World/soul in forehead/another way? Please explain (I am asking this with a positive intent and curiosity, please reply).
2. You wrote somewhere that ypu are a medium and practise channeling, whom do you channel and how many years of practise did you learn channeling (I want to channel Saint Germian, hence asking).

A very quick response to the most important issues as I am busy today.

No, I do not practise as a medium/channel. I *did* when I was much younger attend Spiritualist Churches (which were the native form of spiritualism where I live). I knew professional and "amateur" (unpaid/religious ones not just new agey professional/paid for ones) spirit mediums and channels on a normal friendly basis (as in not just paying to go and see them) and attended the mediumship/healing development circles where I was encouraged to develop as a healer rather than a medium or a channel. But it was not something I developed. BKism put an end to that, but the experiences led me to understand and identify BKism as a *spiritualist* rather than *spiritual* movement, and made the spiritualistic elements of BKism, e.g. the channelling, less "magical", because to me it was just normal. I had family connections to that side of life.

Whilst teaching the 7 Day course, it is true, "students" (or victims as I would call them now!) very often did experience these vision and "powerful" experiences ... but the truth is, I have no idea how. And that concerns me now. It was completely irresponsible of me, and the centre-in-charge, to put me in a situation where all these "psychic fireworks" were going off and I, nor anyone else, really knew how they happened or what they were.

I think many teaching/practing BKs would report the same. I did not, and do not, take credit for them. We would say "Baba did them" or "Baba gave the soul the experience ... blah blah blah" but who really knows who was involved or what was going on?

I would however - despite the objections or reinterpretations someone from a point of view such as Pink Panther's might offer - say that during guding meditation from the guddhi I really did feel as if *something* was working through me, that something had "overshadowed" me, was moving my head around and "working" through me. It was very distinct experience. Almost mechanical in precision.

Again, I don't think this was "wonderful", I think it was dangerous and irresponsible as I had not a clue who or what it was. We do, however, know what their ultimate agenda is ... the destruction of humanity via an inspired nuclear war.

It is within that goal that BKism must be judged.

However "wonderous" BKism might appear, one should never forget that ultimate ageanda.

I cannot recommend any schools of mediumship as I do not know where you live but in India, and of India, there is; Spiritual Research Foundation.

I do not think I was recommend anyone to go down that path out of curiousity or, even worse, idealistic escapism ... which is what I was doing when I was young. It was a big mistake. I think what one needs to do is focus on sorting out one's real life stuff, 99.9%.

Address the issues in your real life, get ahead and create a very secure foundation, become a good and practically wise person ... then if the gods or spirits need you, they'll coming knocking of their own accord. But even then becareful they are for real.

Beware of "powerful" experiences. I would say they are 99% + delusionary or distracting.

Thank you for the details but you still did not explain what kind of BK meditation you did, i.e. would you sit idle without thoughts only listening to songs and visualising the lyrics or remember our true form of dot in forehead/Soul World or angel giving sakash (positive energy) to world or a particular geographic area or as demigod sitting in temple and blessing devotees or a diety spending time in Golden/Silver Age or BK/Brahmin in Confluence Age doing duties with soul consciouness and remembering ShivBaba or some other 'swamaan' (goal for a day like 'I am a pure soul'/'I am a loving soul'/'I am a servicable soul'/'I am lakshmi/Narayan' ...).

What would you practise when sitting on gaddi ...

the experiences led me to understand and identify BKism as a *spiritualist* rather than *spiritual* movement, and made the spiritualistic elements of BKism, e.g. the channelling, less "magical", because to me it was just normal. I had family connections to that side of life

.
By family connections do you mean some of your family members are mediums, whom did they channel ... can you eloborate when you are free if you don't mind.

Again, I don't think this was "wonderful", I think it was dangerous and irresponsible as I had not a clue who or what it was. We do, however, know what their ultimate agenda is ... the destruction of humanity via an inspired nuclear war.

I request you not to do disservice just because you felt neglected and exploited (your time and energies) by BKs .. ShivBaba tells us our aim should be to become like lakshmi and Narayan, i.e viceless and loving everyone as one divine family ... transformation of iron age into Golden Age will be either seamless through love or through violence (wars and natural calamities) ... we have to always remember that the consciousness of Brahma Baba who is the official Chariot of ShivBaba has gone through gradual evolution and Avyakt Vanis are also refined as Brahma Baba' consciousness is refined .. I find it understandable when in initial stages of Yagya Brahma Baba said 'aham brahmasmi' which is true since he is Brahma but the interpretation was based on the scriptual knowledge they have.

Was the prediction of destruction in 1980 in Avyakt Vani, if so then most likely it was the probability as felt by Avyakt Baba ... whatever the short comings, I feel lot of love and belongingness towards Baba and his Murlis both Sakar and Avyakt. The teachings are very noble and are benovelent ... this is enough for me to read Murlis and imbibe the teachings.

after reading http://www.sirius-eng.net/ (i was introuced to this by this forum only)i got interested in mediumship and found https://www.omna.org/here i found many entities channeled..

i also wanted to be a channel

about healing i found http://www.kuthumi-hands.com/, an few others.. i too wanted to be a healer..

but i don't know where to learn.. i studied about 'reiki' and 'pranic healing' but did not learn them, i found another healing modality 'angel healing' but i don't know how effective it is, jesus prayers also heal..

what type of healer r u..

I feel absolutely entitled to be as critical of Lekhraj Kirpalani and BK as I want to be.

Criticism is not "negative" if it is pursuing the truth. It is not "disservice" to explose delusions and manipulations.

In fact, it is true service.

Thank you for the details but you still did not explain what kind of BK meditation you did.

Short to be short but, in my day, they did not have all that nonsense and I do not consider it to be BK Raja Yoga.

From a BK point of view, as well as any other, I'd call it just fantasising, plain and simple. Day dreaming.

The 1986 and '1986 to 1996' prediction of Destruction was in the Sakar Murlis (e.g. 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation). I presume they have been edited out and hidden by now. They, and later Year 2000, were confirmed by all the senior BKs.

When you say, "[BK] transformation of iron age into Golden Age will be either seamless through love or through violence" that is absolutely not true.

BK "transformation", aka Destruction, absolutely requires Nuclear War, Civil Wars and Natural disasters. It is not option. If they are changing that now, it is because they are thinking to themselves it's not going to happen any more.

I had friends who were mediums but not family. Family members just attended seances, and had experiences, and introduced me to the idea. As did friends who I introduced, sometime very noticable effect, e.g. complete loss of consciousness and change of personalities (channelling/possession).

No one would have dreamt of believing they were god, like Lekhraj Kirpalani did and it was before they started to claim to be aliens from other stars etc. At that time, it was more common to claim the spirits were "Tibetans", "Wise Chinamen" or "American Indians". Such characters were as exotic as aliens and other dimensions were today.

It was probably just all marketing.

I do not do spiritualist healing. I don't encourage pursuing it. My "healing" is to encourage spiritual people to be more down to earth and focus on the practical things in their lives and the world.

Sorry to be short but, in my day, they did not have all that nonsense and I do not consider it to be BK Raja Yoga.

What would you practise: soul in forehead/soul in Soul World/what?

The 1986 and '1986 to 1996' prediction of Destruction was in the Sakar Murlis (e.g. 50 years for Destruction and 50 years for Creation).

Thank you for this information ... so it is a misinterpretation by BKs then.

When you say, "[BK] transformation of iron age into Golden Age will be either seamless through love or through violence" that is absolutely not true.

BK "transformation", aka Destruction, absolutely requires Nuclear War, Civil Wars and Natural disasters. It is not option. If they are changing that now, it is because they are thinking to themselves it's not going to happen any more.

I still feel it would be seamless through love and not through violence by civil wars, nuclear wars and natural calamities.

sometime very noticable effect, e.g. complete loss of consciousness and change of personalities (channelling/possession).

What did they practise to be a channel?

I do not do spiritualist healing. I don't encourage pursuing it.

Why not, what's wrong in being a healer ... Jesus was a healer and is very revered because of it, what's wrong in being a healer ... also the site you advised endorses healing

http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-healing/spiritual-heaing-principles/how-spiritual-healers-heal

Here are some visualisations.

What would you practise: soul in forehead/soul in Soul World/what?

Soul in Soul World connected to ShivBaba. When guiding meditation, imaging his energy being channelled through my third eye at the other individual. Even that was probably a later introduction.

They had just started the dreamy, imaginative contemplations you are talking about, it was Sister Denise in California who did. Before that, the practise was based on Jayanti's guided meditation tape, i.e. leaving the body, travelling up into space, entering the Soul World, connecting to Shiva.

A Scottish Brother who has since left, I think it was, also had the idea for a monthly "World Meditation Day", (similar to the Buddhists' "expanding metta" practise). That was probably the start of the "sending vibrations to the world" fantasies.

When we taught meditation, "contemplations" were a sort of basic step towards meditation, i.e. thoughtless absorbtion. Now it seems like anyone old fantasy will do.

thank you for this information ... so it is a misinterpretation by BKs then.

No, it came from their god and was in the Murlis.

What you just wrote, repeated, is just a typical BK excuse I've heard 100 times before, i.e. when their god spirit is proven to be wrong or fallible, they blame it on some BK follower. But it is explicitly not true. It is one of their many "corporate lies" intent on making their failed god and Seniors look better than they actually are and to support the illusion of an infallible Seniors and an "Ocean of Truth" god.

Can an Ocean of Truth have any wrong or falsehood in it? Would a god, or even a good soul, lie or support and sustain any wrong or falsehood?

In addition, we were told that the word of the Seniors was equal to god's and "Shrimat", so if they said it, it was equal to god saying it. And they all said it. They (allegedly) had a direct connection with BapDada and would regularly hold seances where Jayanti, Mohini, Gulzar or some other spirit medium would go into trance and ask for guidance or clarification directly from BapDada.

He never corrected them.

I still feel it would be seamless through love and not through violence by civil wars, nuclear wars and natural calamities.

Well then, all that is, is your own projection and manmat. It is not BKism.

You may well be right and your vision is actually better than the BKs, however, it is not BKism and should never be presented as BKism, or to support BKism.

The BKs might encourage and allow contact souls such as yourself to believe what they want in order to keep them close, serviceable and donating money ... but BKism is 100% Nuclear War and death of 7 billion human beings.

If you do not accept 100% Nuclear War and death of 7 billion human beings, then you are not a BK and should leave BKism and its god spirit.

This is where I think you are at a slight disadvantage being on the outside of BKism. If you were on the inside of BKism you'd know their god spirit and Seniors regularly teases the 10,000s of BKs at Madhuban with "pressing the button" and "inspiring the scientists" and "Destruction".

In truth, I think you know this too ... and it underlines a sort of disonnance between your own position/beliefs and BKism.

What did they practise to be a channel

They did not. It was at a "rescue circle" which is a healing practise (allegedly) for disincarnate spirits, i.e. souls who had died but did not know it or had not moved on to their next lives, existence or "the light" (other spirit worlds). It was an automatic experience for them like being possessed.

Why not, what's wrong in being a healer ... Jesus

It does not pay the rent, it does not put food on the table, it does not offer a retirement pension ... and look at the trouble it got Jesus into!

Here is a subtle framework to consider about "spiritualism" ... if you are ready, the "gifts" will come to you and be given to you. If you go chasing them, which is ultimately ego driven, you end up in unreliable relationships with those that will give them to you whether individual teachers or the unreliable "spirits" themselves.

As with BKism, there's a lot of darkness and shadow (manipulation, parasitism, "evil") within the broad field of "spiritualism" ... moreso than in normal life. And at least in normal life you can see it with your own eyes.

You may feel trapped, you may be looking for a fantasy or escape from your dull or unhappy normal life ... do not choose spiritualism as that. Find something practical and down to earth. Choose something that will take you to where you want to get to, e.g. a new skill, a new language, financial independence a good and practical business etc.

One of the best books to start with on this subject, in fact, I would call it "obligatory study" is 'The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts: A Riveting Investigation Into Channeling and Spirit Guides' by Joe Fisher. His is a view that would be shared with most real "masters".

Say, like many young Indian women, you think you "want to be like Sister Shivani", or Sister Jayanti for Western women (they are sort of fantasy figures the BKWSU used for marketing). Or like many you want to give up your unhappy life to live in Mount Abu and surrender to Baba. Or be a healer or a psychic medium and channeller. Fine. OK. Now answer all the practical, down to earth questions about what it would take and how likely you are to succeed ... you'll quickly discovered that the chances are impossible. Therefore it's better to be practical first.

Master "normal life" first, as indeed Lekhraj Kirpalani did in his time, then think about what comes next.

I am trying to save you from the mistakes I made (yes, I was at the very beginning inspired by stories of Jesus as a healer and I discovered they were all fantasies too, and the reality of chasing them sucked).

Let's talk about your real life first.

Thank you for your benovelent & honest feedback.

I still want to be a healer, I would like to learn reiki/pranic healing/organ regeneration/acupressure/angel meditation or something else in the field of alternative medicine ... but along with primary occupation I would like to be a channel/medium/conduit/vessel (I think they are all more or less the same) of some divine entity like Saint Germain/Jesus/Kuthumi.

What puzzles me is the mechanism behind channeling, i.e. I think the soul of the channeled entity will have taken rebirth but the astral bodies of all its past lives except seperately with their own identity and consciousness independently ... say like progress report card of each class exists even after we study higher classes, i.e. cards of our 1st, 2nd, 3rd ... exist even after we study 9th, 10th ... graduation, post graduation ... and we as an individual soul have all memories, knowledge and instincts we develop during that class/course but our actual karma and performance is in the notebooks, test papers, report card and those things togeather as an ensemble act as an independent entity and can be 'called' upon by the practitioner or in parallel by many practitioners at the same time, and they give knowledge and answer queries of multiple practitioners in parallel at the same time ... like Bhog sandesh from BapDada can be brought in parallel by many trance messengers and each come up with a different version based on trance messengers' evolution of consciousness.

The Tree of humanity is a representation of astral bodies of all souls, so it is similar to inverted soul tree in Soul World but not exactly like that tree since in Soul World only 700/800/900 crores of souls exist whereas in tree of humanity many astral bodies of same soul exist.

In the Murli, Baba has said Jesus is Golden Age/Silver Age soul (I don't recall exact words) who might have commited crimes in Copper Age and hence the crucification as a penalty for past life crimes although he was a healer in that lifetime. Like ShivBaba establishing 'adi sanatan devi devta dharma', which later got divided as Jainism and Hinduism, the Christ soul possesses Jesus and establishes Christianity, and leaves Jesus's body before crucification. In the Murli, Baba said the christ soul has no negative karma to undergo pain so leaves Jesus's body before crucification (most likely it is the holy spirit-son of god, jesus-son of man, Jehovah-Shiva).

You might be aware of this but I am just reminding that healings were done by both Jesus (sananda) as well as Christ and crucification was to account for past life karma of sananda and not because of being a healer.

I feel jesus is Brahma Baba (sananda) and mother mary-mamma (sanat kumara), Holy Spirit christ-religious Father of Christianity who later took birth in Christianity religion and establish as well as flourish it.

Similarly Buddhism was established by Siddharta who is a BK as conduit and Buddha as channeled master.

As per comparing Holy Spirit in Christianity and ShivBaba in BK sect/cult, as you may call it, both come directly from Paramdham so don't have astral bodies as such .. (another doubt, what happens to all the astral bodies of many births as we ascend to Soul World? Do they exist as energy clusters to be accessed in next Kalpa [5000yr cycle] or do we go through all those karmic balances and they all extinguish into ether? In that way, in the next cycle we will all start with zero accounts and create new astral bodies based on our thoughts and actions. If so then what decides where we are born and to whom we are born in case of non-BKs who take first birth in copperage and iron age).

About astral bodies of ShivBaba and holyspirit, I think since they're giving knowledge being a teacher which is 'karma'. They have got to have astral bodies ... but since they don't take birth and have no physical body, their energies get stored in Brahma Baba's and Jesus's astral body respectively ... hence farishta (angel meditation) is advised where our energy along with shivbab's energy combined due to remembrance is formed which would later be an energy egregore accessible to respective devotees.

** five forms of meditation drill is taught and recommended by BapDada (ShivBaba + angelic Brahma Baba) in Avyakt Murlis, not by Sister denise or other BKs.

As far as I can see, the "5 forms drill" was formalised in around 2007 (perhaps by a Australia BK space cadet called Carmen Warrington who introduced even more "colourful" fantasies ... she has her own website/spin). It is all very recent. It was most certainly was *not* in the original Sakar Murlis.

Whether it has been repeated in new Avyakt Vanis, I don't know ... but the thing is, it is near impossible to know who has written in, written out, or re-written what by this date.

Look, Sukh, you are trying to make sense out of a mixture of fairy stories, mental illness, lies and fabrications; your own manmat, other BKs' manmat, and other practises.

You are going to get yourself in one big ego driven mess.

You are trying to make sense of BKism ... when it is not sensible (able to be made sense of, e.g. logical, rational, provable) ... and combine it without other mutually exclusive and incompatible beliefs. You may be driven by what you believe to be good or even the highest motivations but it is really all just ego driven and ungrounded ... and I would suspect escapism from other problems.

And, yes, you remind me of what I first start exploring BKism and the New Agey *industry*. You are doing what most or even all of us did while we tried to convince ourselves of the logic or meaning behind BKism, protecting our own dreams and ideals on it.

It's all 99% crap.

If you want to help and care for people, just become a nurse or a simple counsellor.

If you go chasing "spirits" you'll attract the wrong type. Go off and become a really good, down to earth, practical person and you'll attract the right type, when the time is right.

In the short term, forget about it all and focus on your real life. Take the advice of people who have walked the paths you are intended to start upon and who have found what lies along or at the end of them.

I had never heard of "Sananda" before but apparently the medium who was promoting the idea (Joshua David Stone) teaches that "Jesus has a landing pad for his flying saucer in Jerusalem" ... if you cannot see the red warning flag with the likes of that ... you're doomed.

If you believe in that, or want to become like that, then I propose becoming a children's author and write honest fairy stories instead.

"Hell is paved with good intentions.”

- Samuel Johnston, as quoted by James Boswell

I did lot of churning about those ideas and wrote them, neither of you gave your opinion/critique about them ... just generic feedback ... still this forum has turned out to be a more or less blogsite to my ideas ..

Thank you all for that.

Did you manage to find and read a copy of Joe Fisher's ''The Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts"?

That is not just a theoretical or indepth answer to the mediumistic element of your inquiry but provides some of the best research and evidence of the game. Read it, and we can discuss in detail.

The fact is, you did get my opinion/consideration/critique ... you just did not like the answer I gave you.

I could go further.

Reiki is a business scam. Do you really believe paying $1,000 for a few weekend courses makes you a "master". $150 ... $222 ... $333 ... $444. There's basically no money in except for teaching others, it's a business like the BKs, who depend on people's curiosity. People get excited by the idea, drop the money, do the course, give up 6 months later.

"Enlightenment can be yours, please buy my book and pay the cash register".

Now, consider this ...

If I gave you good advice that was right for you ... would you believe it and take it?

If I told you Saint Germain was telling me to tell you that good advice ... would you believe it more and take it more serious?

If both advices were identical ... would it matter if I told you or Saint Germain?

(My advice is free ... to speak to Saint Germain, it will cost you $100 an hour).

Lastly, if you were Saint Germain, who would you hang out with and advise ... someone who charge a fortune and boasted Saint Germain was speaking to them, who spent all their time chasing VIPs or dealing with middle class housewife problems, like the BKs?

Or someone who was wise and quiet, and just got on with helping people and doing good humbly?

I think the answer to your questions is contained in that.

Are you in India? What does India and the people immediately around you really need the most? More saints, or more nurses, elementary teachers, and sanitary (sewage) engineers?

For me, the sewage engineers of India and more saintly and wise than all the religious parasites put together.

OK, I got your point ... can you tell how a simple thing like reading Murli makes me content and happy? Is it because of the Golden Age promise or promise of health, wealth and happiness throughout The Cycle ... or the fatherly love of ShivBaba?