My experience of 6 years as a BK & then left it (ex-BK now)

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awareness_being

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My experience of 6 years as a BK & then left it (ex-BK now)

Post05 Feb 2017

Hi,

I am creating this thread for sharing my experience with Brahma Kumaris, I joined them six years ago, and not on their path now. The experience was kind of okay, cannot be labelled as good or bad, or right or wrong, because these fours terms "Good/Bad/Right/Wrong" are applicable to office world, but unfortunately BKs use these four terms almost everyday to crate prejudice, a lot of prejudice.

It is a path of just self-cultivation and nothing else, the war with the Maya is unending, the 5 vices, they do go but not completely. I have seen Sister BK Shivani speaking in a completely Egoistic way with Brahmins, and sometimes openly in lectures too, when I say "egoistic" I simply mean that she defames the beliefs of other religions and spiritual paths to put the beliefs of BKs on higher status, for example in one lecture she ended up defaming Radha Swamis on the topic of vegetarianism. Defaming anyone is not allowed for divine souls, hence she is not completely divine soul, she is just a marketing agent of BKs.

Apart from this the war with the vice of sex lust is so dangerous that they fear to talk about this topic openly. And end up saying that Shrimat does not allow that. Why is the power of their Shrimat so weak that if they talk on the topic of sex lust, lustful thoughts will srat running in their mind? cannot they speak openly about this vice in public in the remembrance of Shiv Baba, or their meditation is so weak that if they speak about it and their suppressed lust of many years will get invoked in the form of Anger.

Yes, it happens with them, they do get angry at the followers, and that's the result of their suppressed sex-lust.

Well, I don't have much time to say a lot of things but I think this much is sufficient to get started, any BK or non-BK would like to join me in conversation? so that I can open-up a lot of things. :)

Come on BKs, let's start now ... :).
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post05 Feb 2017

Hey awareness_being. Thanks for sharing your story!

In my opinion, the BK path can either be right or wrong. What I mean is that the BKs believe that God gave that Gyan. So, either that's true and Gyan is The Truth, or ... not. I cannot evaluate the BK path as kind of good, or kind of bad, helpful, not helpful etc.

I mean, sure, there are some things in the Murlis that whether they come from God or not, are useful for some people to apply to their lives. But this is not a philosophy ... it is supposed to be God's one and only true path.

What do you personally believe, awareness_being?
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ex-l

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post06 Feb 2017

I think you make some good points, here and on the other topic, awareness ... but you still seem to accept BKism as an authentic spiritual path.

I used to do that for a while after leaving ... but the more I learned about them, and the more about their 'shadow' I discovered, the less I've come to believe that ... to the point of considering them a dangerous 'spiritually (and financially) parasitical' cult.

I tend to believe that their "god" is most certain not "the god", or even "a god", but something at a much lower level. Perhaps even on the negative side. It's how deeply entrenched in dishonesty and manipulation that BKs are that has convinced me.
awareness_being wrote:just self-cultivation and nothing else

What do you mean by "self-cultivation"? And how success are the BKs on the whole of acheiving it?

I don't get the attraction for Sister BK Shivani. For me, she's just like a robotic parrot and half the time sounds bossy or angry, or at least highly controlling.
the vice of sex lust is so dangerous that they fear to talk about this topic openly. And end up saying that Shrimat does not allow that. Why is the power of their Shrimat so weak that if they talk on the topic of sex lust, lustful thoughts will start running in their mind?

I cannot remember that speficially being said in the Murlis. Perhaps some frightened ... inexperienced ... repressed Senior Sister said it?

They may as well say, "intelligent discussion is against Shrimat" while they are at it.

I always wonder how it OK and possible for them to "Remember Baba" while they cheat tax or immigration law and con people out of money ... but impossible to remember god while having a loving relationship.

Let's face it, it's a counterfeit or low level spirituality and it really 99% just about controlling adherents, e.g. by keeping their separated from others, BK or non-BKs, in anyway possible. Same too with all the food supersistions.
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awareness_being

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post08 Feb 2017

Thanky you so much "Friend" and "ex-I", your replies are worth considering.

When I said the path of BKs is just the path of self-cultivation, I mean just a path of becoming better day by day. I was a completely depressed soul, like depressed to the thoughts of suicides, just saw Sister Jayanti one day on TV and got a thought from her that God can make you deal with any situations, just wanted to get rid of all the worst situations that I was going through using something, be it God. Because when a person thinks about committing suicide, there is a friendly part of our own mind that tells us don't do it at any cost, find some solution, just saw that solution in BKs. Yes, they gave the solution of implementing positive beliefs.

But the problem with any belief is that it puts us into duality, duality of "good" and "bad", duality of "right" and "wrong". How can a true "God" can put us into these four ultra-dangerous things? These fours word "Good", "Bad", "Right" and "Wrong" are applicable only in the office world, not in spiritual life. The path will create a very positive frame of mind to you if you are very dedicated, but being very dedicated is again putting you into duality. Yes, all souls come in cycle of time for eternity, because time is cyclic in nature, it's not linear.

But escaping this cycle of eternity, and becoming eternity itself, is what frees us from this cycle. Freeing ourselves from The Cycle involves immense suffering, it is not a goal or something, but immense suffering is a part of it. And hence people don't want to free themselves, because they fear from suffering.

Yes, suffering is not easy to bear without God, but what if we can become just a witnesses of everything, witnesser of our body, witnesser of our mind, they teach to be the witnesser of this unlimited drama, but the mind is the problem, it doesn’t let you become a TOTAL WITNESSER.

Because the path is of being in the mind and making it only a friend, but the enemy is waiting for you, dude. And that is the reason Satyug and the Golden Age can’t be brought in the way they have been trying to bring. It can’t be brought into reality. The only way to be in Satyug is to create that Golden Age in the present moment in your life right now. Thinking about your status in the future of Satyug, dude, that is what is preventing us from bringing Satyug. Just be in present moment, that’s the key I got after leaving them. And become a witnesser of your mind is the beginning of my journey.

But I am not an anti-bk, I could just see it from different perspective with the help of external existence which is the God, and not a separate being different from me and this existence.
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ex-l

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post08 Feb 2017

awareness_being wrote:When I said the path of BKs is just the path of self-cultivation, I mean just a path of becoming better day by day.

OK, I got you. I wondered if you meant "social climbing".

But do you really believe that now? It seems to contradict where you've got to now ... meaning is "a path of becoming more and more deluded or divided day by day".

Or, perhaps, it's a "better class of delusion" ... which I could probably agree with.

For me, it's primarily what the BKs are about ... socially climbing from where they would have starved to death in obscurity, to where they are super rich and comfortable and being invited to the "high table".
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post08 Feb 2017

My answers are based only on my current level, I am surely not an enlightened being, but do have realised that I possess that capability. That's what Zen people teach. "You are already a sleeping Buddha, all you need to be AWARE of to reach your home is that come out of that sleep dude".

All that matters for now is total acceptance of everything and no repression or rejection of any thought given by the mind. I was repressing and rejecting the thoughts of my sex-lust and anger and all sorts of thoughts of vices, but what I understood from those 6 years was the more I suppress and reject the more I am in the play of those thoughts. Why not to transcend them into their opposite form of energies like from sex-lust to pure love, from anger to compassion, but that acceptance has to be with TOTAL AWARENESS and also considering the repercussions of that acceptance. This is know as the openness path, the path of Tantra, total acceptance of everything, life, death and even sex. But with AWARENESS.

I just got a thought from my mind, let's share all that I have been getting from existence, and acceptance of that though with AWARENESS is this thread on this forum ... :).
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post08 Feb 2017

I was repressing and rejecting the thoughts of my sex-lust and anger and all sorts of thoughts of vices, but what I understood from those 6 years was the more I suppress and reject the more I am in the play of those thoughts. Why not to transcend them into their opposite form of energies ...

That's what Zen people teach. "

Glad you went there awareness_being. I was going to reply after your previous post that you sounded like you were working your way to a Buddhist viewpoint - which, for those looking from the outside, seems close to Hinduism (Vedic thinking) but is, in fact, a reaction to it and rejection of it.

On the deeper level, Buddha taught (and particularly taken up by the Mahayana) to not get caught up focusing on love or compassion either, for each thing has its opposites (shadow) and is itself a gateway into those opposites, e.g. if I love something, I do not love its opposite - whereas both should be approached with equal attitude.

The excerpt from the Vimalakirti Sutta is one that did it for me. Paraphrased - ”I say to those who have an inordinate conceit/concept of self [must] 'Attain liberation by conquering the three adventitious afflictions (greed, hatred and confusion)' while to those without inordinate conceit/concept of self I say, 'Realise that greed, hatred and confusion are [of the nature of] liberation'”.

One clue to its depth is in the phrase ”adventitious afflictions”. The word "adventitious” means they come and they go. For those with an inordinate sense of self - ”I” - they tend cling to what arises, while those without will let go more easily, they do not need to ”conquer" them. This ’non-grasping’ liberates them from the effect of these (and their opposites), which, as you so insightfully mention, do come and go as they are part of human nature & society, and the triggers to arouse them are all around us and within us.

Water off a duck’s back - you can swim on it calmly, paddle furiously or not at all below the surface, dive under it, fly over it, settle back again, but remain a duck.

The Buddhuck
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human being

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post10 Feb 2017

Hey man,

The good thing about you is also the bad thing, and that is that you have not (this is my opinion of you based on limited info) 'experienced' real BKism as you perhaps struggled with celibacy in your BK life and hence have not experienced the BapDada Spirit radiating its 'vibrations', thereby drastically altering your perspective about everything. You sound, at least on the outside, like an openminded guy, though the influence of BKism is still quite obvious in your thought process.

However, it's a good thing that you have evolved into a more openminded person from your BK experience (if you really mean what you are writing and not merely using one philosophy as a means to reject the other in which you failed).

There is only one point which I see as something to emphasise upon, it is the casual use of the word 'tantra'. Accepting your flaws and being aware of them is all well and good, as so is the idea of not repressing them, as repression basically represents an ignorant/unscientific attempt to achieve a worthy goal of enlightment (assuming you believe that something like that exists).

However, in many places and by many people, acceptance is being used as an excuse to lead a life free from any spiritual discipline, and a way to justify your 'weaknesses'. 'Tantra' is just a Sanskrit word which means, 'mechanism' and deals with the use of spiritual energy or the 'kundalini' for spiritual upliftment, and not philosophy.

What Gautama Sidhhartha taught originally had little to do with 'tantra'. When bodhisattvas went from India to places like Tibet, and then further to other parts of Asia and also towards Bhutan etc, what is loosly called "shamanism" was common place. So a blend of sorts got created in the form of various little tributries which use the words 'tantra' , 'chakras' etc but use them in a different way.

Books like 'the Tibetian book of Living and Dying' and various other texts on Taoism etc were created as a result of the above process. You may have noticed how BKs change their 'Gyan' for westerners? In a similar fashion, a lot of 'gurus/masters' are fooling around finding gullible people and feeding them with a more attractive version of such philosophies which basically appeal to people as they can justify their failures in life.

I wish you, me and everyone else develop this vision to penetrate through the facades of egoistical manipulations and become real spiritual disciples of this vast cosmic consciousness.

Amen.

Namaste.
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post10 Feb 2017

Quick footnote to the above. Do you not mean "The Tibetan Book of Dead" (Bardo Thodol - approx 14th C)?

"Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" is a very modern book (written by Sogyal Rinpoche in 1992).

Sogyal was a Dzogchen lama, a tradition which carries elements of the Tibetan Bon tradition (11th C).

I have "no horse in this race" ... I am not pitting one path or tradition against another ... but there's an argument to suggest that the term "Tantrism", as it's used today, is another one of those Western terms or notions introduced by 19th-century Indologists that has fed back to India. I don't know any schools teaching it, but it's portrayed as the esoteric side of Hinduism and Buddhism ... or as an excuse for lots of long, artful, kinky sex.

I don't know the dates of Buddhism's expansion but I'd guess it was a lot earlier. Traditional shamanism, of course, remains practised all over India and Asia.

I am not sure about this "failing celibacy" element. I understand where you are coming from, Human, that's the BK line and I suspect it's fair enough, e.g. one has to give up gross stimulation/excitations to pick up more subtle stimulation/excitations, however, on the other hand, one could argue that it was his 'sub-' or even 'super-consciousness' intiutive rejecting a wrong path or spirit guide.

Either way, fair enough, it's better to live with it and work through it.

Personally, I think most of the rules of BKism are just about keeping up a facade of religiousity, with an emphasis on conformity and unquestioning acceptance of the leaders seniority, rather doing what is good and right the each individual's personal growth.

And, of course, their god spirit is not "God", so what's the real benefit of yoging with it?

This is where I disagree with the "one size fits all (and beat yourself to death)" approach of BKism.

How "high" a spirit do you think the BKs' god is? Or is it just, e.g. an elevated Lekhraj Kirpalani?
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

Yes, ex-l, I meant the "Tibetan Book of the Dead" and misspelt it as I never check what I write as I write usually just before going to bed and exhausted. Also,its been a long time since I read it. You are perfectly right in your opinion about 'tantra' and I agree with you a 100%.

As far as celibacy is concerned, I have already written about its importance from a 'tantric' perspective on this forum. If you think it is worthwhile to discuss it in detail to give clarity to newcomers on this forum, start a new thread. I will be happy to contribute my bit.

As far as BK god spirit is concerned, I usually avoid discussing it for a variety of reasons. Also, I usually don't like to theorize and prefer to speak about things about which I am certain to some extent. I have some strong ideas about it but I don't think this is the right place to discuss it. Also, it deserves a separate thread of its own. But one thing about which I am positively sure is that it was NOT Dada Lekhraj and is something different though it 'dissolved' him into it psychically speaking.
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

Dear "human being"

My influence in my thought process is because of becoming more AWARE about my own thoughts and acts not because of bhrama Kumaris. If one is AWARE only about the thought process of BKs, one is bound to become a person full of prejudice, like BKs have becoming, including Dadis, they don't even touch a shodra (a person eating non-veg and involved in vices). So I am concluding this point of your by saying that "BKism is about creating prejudice in society".

If one BK says that bhramin and Shudra thing is based on their karmas they perform and we are teaching them to perform the right karma, let me tell you something that judging someone based on what karma they perform is also prejudice, Sister Shivani does teach about separating the sin from sinner but the fact is she herself condemns the beliefs of other paths, cannot she preach without any condemination of any path, can she do it? No she cannot because is she influenced by the thought process of BKs.

Another thing is that I did not failed in following the path, BKs in connecting with me lead me towards the thought of leaving them, the only best example I can give you is of a BK Brother who has done BapDada milan 3 to 4 times, he ended up cursing me when I told him that I am leaving the path. He ended up saying that after leaving Baba my consciousnesses will become negative and I won't be able to sit alone. That BK Brother blocked me on whatsapp after saying this, but he was not AWARE that I am only on the path of becoming completely alone.

Aloneness is enjoyment and loneliness is suffering, BKs are lonely people hence they need an external God to keep them occupied, the fact is that God can be realized only in ALONENESS and not as a separate entity from your heart. BKs need to sit in silence and check their heart, they may find Baba sitting their, if they find him there they can never go Paramdham to be with him agin aver in life, like I don't go to Paramdham anymore.

BKs changing their Gyan for Westeners is another mistake done by them, because one cannot change The Knowledge based on the requirement of the person coming to them, changing Gyan is a way of attarcting more and more people, that's what I figured out when I came to know that Murlis are edited every year. They are not the same told by Brahma Baba. The time period of Confluence Age also keeps changin when they don't see any sign of Satyug coming, at the time of Brahma Baba, he had declared the time duration of Confluence Age as 40 years, he failed in bringing Ramrajya in those 40 years, hence the time duration of sangam yug was canged to 100 years and now they even say that it is 125 years. This is the point to be noted.

"Become real spiritual disciples of this vast cosmic consciousness."

BKs are not becoming spritual disciples of any vast conciousness. In fact, they are heading towards the conciousness of royal EGOISM, anyone can see that royal EGOISM when Sister shivani starts speaking in any of her lecture, but one has to be TOTAL AWARENESS in that duration without any thought of judment towards BK shivani, only then you will be able to figure it our in her.

Thank you so much ... you using Amen and Namaste at the end, it just signify one thing about you, you are a dual Ind person, duality cannot make us realize what we are, one has to go beyond words like "Amen" and "Namaste".

Regards,
AWARENESS_BEING
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

Well, please bear with one more reply for "Human Being". Please change your profile name from "Human Being". Dude, that is such a noble term to use for yourself, first become a HUMAN who is free from prejudice and a BEING of total witnesser, only then name your profile as "Human being". Yeah, I may sound a little rude, I am an AWARE Shudra now, why cannot I be rude? According to BKs Shudra performs such karmas.

And why do you avoid speaking about anything openly, is your meditation and knowledge not enough to explain everything here, why you need a separate thread, this is a ROYAL EGO, wanting things separate?

I am in equanimity while writing this reply towards you, can you be in equanimity while reading this! Check in silence. There will be a thought of rejection towards me.

Regards,
AWARENESS_BEING
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ex-l

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

No, that's not fair, "separate threads" are our habit here. We ask people to do so in order to help readers find specific information.

I'll be interested to read of people's conception of what "BapDada" is.
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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

human being wrote wrote:using one philosophy as a means to reject the other in which you failed

People do not fail philosophies. Philosophies fail people.

When you follow a philosophy (as opposed to capital ‘P” Philosophy) it is an abstract that has no existence other than in the understanding of a person. Each person has their own conception of a ”philosophy” and, beyond having their own conception, there’s their practice.

You can discuss and intellectualise all you like about a ”philosophy” but the practice is the "thing”. If the practice is changing you, it is also changing one's conception of the philosophy, therefore the earlier ‘philosophy’, i.e. the conception of it, is no longer adequate and is now inappropriate, it has now failed.

If the philosophy & practice is not changing you, why do it? Like a medicine should make you better, thereby makes itself redundant, it has failed you, why take it?

Even worse is if the medicine makes you sicker, if a philosophy & practice makes you less of a human being, more of a dick than you were before. And worse again, if it masks the ill effect it is having on you like an addictive toxin but makes you think you are unique, superhuman, man, watch out!
... the casual use of the word 'tantra'.

Reading tantric texts is not enough. Tantric Buddhism and hinduism are primarily by direct esoteric transmission, verbal and practical, not scriptural nor generally ‘broadcast’. The meaning of ‘tantra’ itself will therefore be different according to what one has learnt from their master/guru.

Tantra is a term that essentially meant ”a thread”, in the sense of a continuity that weaves together different people over time who’ve been intiiated or invited into that tantra (our best equivalent word is tradition). It may also be etymologically related to the word for ”body" - tan - because that ‘thread' which is handed down, practiced and elaborated (and altered) over centuries by many people creates a unity, a ”body’ of knowledge/teachings.

There is not one tantra, just as sports does not mean there is only one sport played.

If the goal is ”liberation” or ”enlightenment” or simply ”the good life” then whatever teaching or philosophy one adopts can only be trusted as leading to those goals if it inherently teaches that it is inadequate in itself, and if the goal is not being attained, it must be reconsidered or left behind completely.

DzogChen (referred to by ex-l) has as its core teaching, "the ground is the path, the path is the goal”. Similar terms are found in the Tao Ti ching, some tantras and some mystical traditions like sufi and within Christianity. There is no reason for not ”waking up” today.

The only thing I have to do is learn how to get out of my own way - that is ‘spiritual’ practice and philosophy, any other is ”temporal” .

Where the religion dangles the goal (or ’the god’) in front of you like a carrot in front of a donkey - just over the horizon, never attained - where the practitioner is told to hitch himself to that institution’s wagon and to trust that only there will he find his fulfilment, what has been promised or can be attained is not freedom (liberation/moksha) or awakening (buddh, enlightenment) but slavery and dependency.

Sail Away

In [the yugya] you get food to eat
Won't have to run through the jungle
And scuff up your feet
You just sing about {god} and drink [nectar] all day
It's great to be a (BK]

Ain't no [need for thinking], ain't no [sexlust] snake
Just the sweet watermelon and the buckwheat cake
Everybody is as happy as a [deity]
Climb aboard, little wog, sail away with me

Sail away, sail away
We will cross the might ocean into Charleston Bay

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human being

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Re: My experience of 6 years as a BK and then left it, X-BK

Post11 Feb 2017

As I thought.

This is the last time I am replying to you "awareness". So, you can shout your heart out and let all your negativity after I am gone from this thread. I have a few free days so, I think I can afford to indulge you this one time. By now, I am pretty sure that you would not listen to what I or anyone else would say but I have been told by some people here that a lot of anonymous guests read the posts here. This is basically for them.

There are usually 2 kind of people who talk about spirituality. One who really care (and are very, very few); and the one who are having some psychological/emotional problems and are using it as either a facade behind which they hide or seek some kind of salvation out of it. Both kinds want to pretend (execpt that it is true for the first kind) that they belong to the first category though;). Osho used to say, "People think that if you meditate, you will be happy but the truth is you can only meditate if you are happy."

I have had personal experience of this matter and I will go as far as to advise anyone (guests mainly) who is reading this post of mine to really try to analyze/introspect about their true motive/state of mind. If you belong to the second category, avoid spirituality completely. An honest atheist/agnostic is a hundred times better than such spiritual charlatans who are lying to themselves as well as to the world.

There is no shame in accepting that you have some kind of depression or any other mental/psychological issue. In such cases NEVER PRACTICE ANY KIND OF MEDITATION OR ANY OTHER SPIRITUAL PRACTICE INVOLVING CONCENTRATION. Also, never preach to others about any kind of practice as you can only spread what you have no matter how much you pretend to be someone else.
    1) First accept your situation and make a resolve to heal yourself.
    2)Go to a good doctor for counselling and follow his/her professional advise.
Whether you are a BK or Buddhist or any other person, the basic laws of this universe apply to all of us equally. Honesty, having the courage to accept the truth, having a true desire to seek the truth etc are some of the virtues that would help you no matter whatever mess you are in.

One thing that I have learnt from my BK experience is that it was not just they, but also me, who was dishonest and hence I wasted a lot of precious time in my life by not listening to the honest warnings of my heart. We mostly suffer in life not because we are sick or weak but because we are too arrogant to accept the reality and hence fail to take remedial actions.

Budhha talked about 'Dukh' a lot and I flatter myself with the belief that dukh is mainly an indicator which tells us that we are not in our "swadharma", mainly because we are oblivious to truth. Again, my freinds, I am not quoting anyone or any book but merely stating what I have personally experienced from my life since the last 25 years I have been living it.

"budhham sharnam gachhami
dhammam sharnam gachhami"
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