Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post15 May 2017

Pink panther, you may be right as you all members are much more experienced of BKism, but here questions arise about how BKs are committed to follow their own Maryadas or principles inside the centre and with their followers.

Question arises about responsibilities of NIRANJANA BEN as center-in-charge and how can she judge any of their members' true intentions behind following BKs? How can she give some brooch symbolising "experienced​/Gyani BK" to my partner without knowing is he eligible or fulfilled criteria of BKs principles? As my partner hasn't followed any of the BKs' Maryadas or lifestyle. NIRANJANA BEN cannot be so irresponsible that way about BKs reputation, without knowing my partner's personal selfish convenient intentions behind the name of BKs Gyan ... but she did not listen to me properly.

I told NEHA BEN exact the same things, and she accepted that no one will be eligible to hold such BK broach within merely 2-3 months of attending Murli classes. She also considered​ mistake of NIRANJANA BEN for not verifying my partner's​ on going life and relationship realities and gave him some brooch, and because of NIRANJANA BEN's irresponsibility towards judging or testing my partner's​ reasons behind joining BK meditation classes, I have to suffered my partner's​ excuses in the name of Gyan.

NEHA BEN accepted​ that fault of NIRANJANA BEN, and I also told her to boycott my partner from coming to BK centre, so that he then realise his faults and can be able to focus on our relationship issue rather than on to BK Gyan.

She assured me about that. She hasn't called me yet, but BK cannot keep anyone deliberately as their followers, otherwise they will be responsible for anything worst that happen then after.
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post15 May 2017

... And, above all, I told NEHA BEN, about the threats made by my partner's​ mother in the name of the BKs!

She said it was not at all acceptable and she will talk about it with NIRANJANA BEN, and let me know.

So there must be some limitations or rules for BK centre in charge like NIRANJANA BEN, they cannot keep any follower who is misusing BKs Gyan in their superiority complex (by wearing a brooch), and which is directly harming someone's​ life so badly.
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ex-l

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post15 May 2017

You are doing very well. You're definitely rocking their boat.

There's a lot of autonomy within BKism for center-in-charges. Each centre pretty much runs independently and it's only when there's some problem (or some VIP) involve that the zone-in-charges or leaders becom involved. There's very little accountability or democracry ... and a lot of control ... which allows center-in-charges to be abusive for a long time before they are pulled up or exposed.

Like any bureaucracy, of course, the interests of the bureaucracy come first beyond any individual and a crappy, stupid or abusive ("strict") center-in-charge might be tolerated for a long time before they are censored. What's most important for the BKs is that they are following the Maryadas ... and then their public reputation. It takes a lot of abuse or stupidity for them to move or removed a center-in-charge. It's rare.

It sound like the center-in-charge and the mother are in cahoots. It's a very good thing to bring the zone-in-charge down upon her. It will be a big surprise for her that this happens.

"Crossed fingers' it has a good effect.

Is there any local community group who would support you ... either Hindu, Muslim or women's group?

The BKs have to be taught proper boundaries, and to respect (keep out of) other people's relationships.

Suggest something like he is told to keep away from BKism for 6 months until he is very sure about it and your relationships. That might be long enough ... and it should make his mother's blood boil.

For me, the core issue appears her "ownership" and unhealthy relationship with her son ... perhaps not even allowing him to properlt grow up and mature as an independent man.

There is often an little element of "man hating" (man fearing?) in BKism.
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Ex-I,

Here in my situation I am facing more obstacles day by day just because I am dealing with many females, otherwise it would not take long to kicked out my partner from BK Center or his mother for using BKs Gyan and threat for her own selfish purpose ...

I don't think involving any community women's group because they will not be able to understand my situation and might use this issue for their own cheap publicity or power showing. In India, such things happen frequently. Victims suffer more this way and instead of resolving main problem everyone gets involved into power showing game ... so it is bad idea of involving more women in my current issue.
It sound like the center-in-charge and the mother are in cahoots. It's a very good thing to bring the zone-in-charge down upon her. It will be a big surprise for her that this happens.

... I was hoping for the same outcome, but local center in charge NIRANJANA BEN has started ignoring my calls. I talked about it with zone in charge NEHA BEN whether she has discussed with NIRANJANA BEN or not! Because local BK center ladies are not behaving properly, I told her that it is been heights of their misbehaving, they need to understand seriousness of my issue.

Again NEHA BEN repeated the same words that she will talk again with NIRANJANA BEN..
"Suggest something like he is told to keep away from BKism for 6 months until he is very sure about it and your relationships."

... I have suggested this option to NEHA BEN, but she started giving me Gyan to be positive and send positive vibes to my partner's soul (anyhow I controlled myself getting angry because of this soul word). I told her, "OK OK I'll do so but you as a zone in charge needs to take proper steps about my issue because if my family's​ men would get involve into this issue, then it might get worst to handle for them too".
"There is often an little element of "man hating" (man fearing?) in BKism."

... Yes I am facing their 'human hating' 'non-bk hating' behavior.

I don't know till how long they are willing to play with me this way.
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Heights of irresponsibility, this Brahma Kumaris peoples Don't damn care about listening to me.

I have called at Mount Abu Center, some telephone operator of BK gave me number of Gita BEN - 09414154477, telling that she is person handling such complaints issues.

I called her, she openly denied to take any responsibility of listen to me and disconnect my call saying that she is new member!!!

Zone in charge NEHA BEN is not receiving​ my calls 09409329999.

Local center in charge NIRANJANA BEN has blocked my number 02652314286.

Mouth Abu BK telephone operators were not able to answer me or to pass my calls to any authorised​ person 02974238788 / 02974238261.

Now tell me what should I do?
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Zenobia

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Fearless, what Neha is telling you is a white-wash. It's lie. I have lived at the center and I know how these issues are handled.

Basically, you let the person talk or vent out his/her frustrations while you get an opportunity to understand what they want to become quiet or in simple to ways to shut up. And then the Sister would just repeat the same things back to you, "we will do what you want us to do" etc ... But, basically, they wouldn't do anything.

For eg; once two ladies gave a false complaint against me to the zone-in-charge and she told them I will correct the said Sister. But, of course, nothing happened because in her mind she knew it was not needed. On another instance, I saw a man complain about another Sister to the zone-in-charge in front of me while the Sister was just in the next room. When this man got very angry, the ZIC asked the junior Sister to be called and, in front of him, told her that she must take care of such things in future.

After this man left happily (he took a revenge of getting the Sister insulted), the ZIC called that Sister to not take what she said seriously because all this was done to pacify him. In fact, she said what the junior Sister did was right and should continue to do so. I have seen such double-faced acts everyday while I lived at the center. So you see?

I am sure Neha must not have spoken to Niranjana ... unless of course if you are a VVIP or very rich person. They would not ignore a Cabinet Minister or local MLA's daughter's threats.

Whenever BKs are dealing with strangers they try to get a complete picture of the person socio-economic profile. Like Neha allowed you to speak first and must have asked you some questions to get her picture right ... Forget Neha, she would not do anything which is not bringing money, fame or power to her center. In a debate over celibacy v/s lust, they all will support celibacy if the complainant is a ordinary person.

They are skilled liars. Junior Sisters are trained everyday to lie. Different lies to different people based on how important they are to the centers. This is true to the extent of giving different standard of prasad and even packing material for it to people from different strata of society. Good quality for rich ones and cheap or even spoiled ones for poor.

In my suggestion, write an email including the snippets of your telephonic discussions and end it with a warning that if Niranjana doesn't let go of your partner, you will forward this email to various national TV channels, print media and the local politicians. Include the communal angle and warn them of consequences ... They care about money & their public image.

Don't waste time in calling Neha or Niranjana. They are both ignoring you in different ways. I think Neha is more educated and polished than Niranjana in how she has chosen to ignore your concerns but the outcome is same.

And don't lose hope. Don't ever think of ending your life over a bunch of selfish, mean people. You are more humane than all of them put together.

The world needs more of people like you ...
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Mann

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Fearless soul, I agree with what Zenobia has written about the culture of lying and hypocrisy at the centers.

BTW, Gita is very experienced member of the BKs (more than 40yrs as a BK). They all are ignoring you in different ways based on their personalities.

Don't waste time in calling them. Approach media instead. Your efforts can save others from going through similar fate.
Feel free to write an email or PM anybody here. Everybody will be ready to listen and help you.
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

I have called again at Mount Abu Center 02974238788, Brother who received my call gave me another number of BK KARUNA Bhai 09414193999, telling that he is handling media or BK official website related matters.

I called him and verify is he eligible able to register my complaint against BK local center in charge NIRANJANA BEN? And in brief I explained him about my issue, I also told him about my emails sent to them before many days, and three reminder emails then after, but nobody has replied me.

http://www.brahmakumaris.org.

I have sent my Complain emails on the given email IDs of Mount Abu offices on this website.

BK KARUNA Bhai replied me, "do one thing, Email me on my personal ID (karunabk@gmail.com), provide me all details and I'll reply you on it, no need to call and discuss with any other BK person". I said OKKKK.

@Zenobia

I have told each of them who have received my calls, that it could be a sensitive communal issue if they won't take any proper actions. I have recorded each and every calls as evidence. The way all of them have replied me without listening me or considering my complaint.

I can be VVIP for these BK people if needed, they don't know the power of common people when it comes to deal with such BK cult.

Actually they are making serious mistake by ignoring me this​ way and proving themselves at serious fault to damage my Relationship my life, otherwise they don't need to ignore my calls.

@Mann

...If you all are agreeing on BK bogus culture, then will you help/cooperate me collectively in my issue? I just want justice, I don't want to harm anyone or misuse any power of authority.

I have joined this forum, wrote everything about my problem which i am facing because of this BK peoples. Sharing openly about day to day obstacles created by BKs.

Still is there need of writing email/PM to any member of this forum?

I am going through very hard core human behavior experience, I don't know how could I tolerate all this. Then may be you all can use this topic just to share with someone like me in future.

I am sorry guys for being so rude in writing but I don't have words to express exactly what I am facing right now. I am sorry
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

I have sent detailed email to BK Karuna Bhai (karunabk@gmail.com) explaining my issue.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

You need to develop a strategy for different eventualities.

You are putting all your effort into trying to get your boyfriend back. You are thinking to try this and that. But ... what if none of it works, what then?

What is it you really want in your life, say, five years from now? Is that impossible without this particular ex-boyfriend? Is your life, the product of many generations of ancestors, only meaningful because of this other single individual in world with 7,000,000,000 others? Keep some perspective.

You place all the blame on the BKs and his mother but did it ever occur to you that he is using the BKs, practically hiding behind his mother like a child, as a method to end the relationship with you, for whatever reason, rather than saying anything else. Maybe he's lacking the courage to be upfront and honest with you? It seems reality is not matching your projection.

It may be he is immature and he fears independence or commitment. It may be that he has now satiated certain needs with you and is no longer attracted to you in the same way? This happens all the time in relationships, especially younger people who change quickly over a matter of years. To put it positively, they outgrow each other. To put it a little harsher, they tire of each other - or one tires of the other.

Do what you are doing - bashing your head against the BK wall - if you feel you must, but I suggest you start to consider a Plan B that does not involve this unresponsive lover-boy as well.
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Pink panther, you are presenting​ my all genuine efforts worthless by saying "trying to get your boyfriend back ...".

Then if it is a matter of "put your hands down" against such BK shaitans, then why you people are providing such deep explaining guidance through this forum? Your words makes me feel like I have been bashing my head since so many days in this forum!! You are one of my favorite member of this forum as I have read your replies in many topics on this forum.
"What is it you really want in your life, say, five years from now?"

... Can anyone surely​ say about it? No. What matter is what we do with 'now' and that's how layers of future reveals itself day by day.
"Is that impossible without this particular ex-boyfriend?..."

... I am making an effort to open his eyes, to make him realise not to agrees upon his mother's​ choices helplessly​. I just believe in everything is possible with little or more efforts​ on the right direction with the right guidance.
"You place all the blame on the BKs and his mother but did it ever occur to you that he is using the BKs ..."

.. Of course, I have shared this already that because of BKs Gyan and brooch he is wearing, he thinks himself "correct" in whatever decision he has taken without considering with me. I am accepting his intentions behind doing all of this, but when I get into arguments with him through personal front he mixes BKs language in it, when I question him about which BK MARYAADAS has he follows, then he turn himself as 'coward' person in the name of mother's wishes or by saying me "Allah saved you from me" ... I need to get rid of this BKs involvement first, that's why I am doing all this, please try to understand my point.
"he is using the BKs, practically hiding behind his mother like a child, as a method to end the relationship with you, for whatever reason, rather than saying anything else."

... I know all this, that's why I want him/his mother to confess their personal intentions in front of me and families and not to use such nonsense BK theories to hide their selfishness. Mother is playing behind all this using me and my partner as her pawns just to be "correct" always ... and I won't take it so easily, so my intentions are to tell this BKs to stay out of my matter and not conspiring with mother to humiliate me by their response. If any of BK would give me proper response they immediately contact my partner and warn him or his mother for causing this issue against BKs reputation. I don't know if I am able to explain with writing all this or not.

Pink panther, please if you want, I will stop sharing further in this forum, but do not prove me wrong with all I have shared here just by keeping some trust on you peoples. If everyone starts thinking like you said, by ignoring situation of theirs and not to take any actions​ against BKs, and just let go their loved one this way, then what is need of such forum or guidance you have been providing since so many years?

I don't like your reviews this time, I am sorry but the way you have mentioned explained about my pathetic present situation and about my efforts, seems not worth it to write here more.
"Do what you are doing - bashing your head against the BK wall - if you feel you must, but I suggest you start to consider a Plan B that does not involve this unresponsive lover-boy as well."

... Thank you for this, I have already explained earlier that I am not that kind of person. Who choose convenient option and forget everything that happened/happening.

Sorry pink panther.
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ex-l

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

Top marks to Fearless for shaking the BKs up and making them have to look at their own ugly faces in the mirror. I agree the best strategy is to keep the issue one about morals, ethics, respect for others (which the BKs don't have) and communal responsibilities.

I am leaning towards getting the Brothers and his friends involved to shake them up more and pull this man out to answer to Fearless for what he has done.

If he's not going to keep to his word, shame him and his caste driven mother so he never forgets, and never does the same to anyone else. You are probably already damaging their standing in the centre, as so much of this is ego driven, that probably a good direction to explore.

Obviously, be careful to make sure no one breaks the law, but to be forceful in defence of good is the right thing do ... stand up and be counted, reject domination based on corruption and abuse.

At the very least, get the man to admit who and what he has done and make him feel like the sh!t he and his mother are.

Other men could challenged him for hiding behind his mother's sari and the center-in-charge.

Sure, give the BKs every chance to be reasonable ... like Zenobia, I doubt they will be, they are highly skilled and practised in this kind of crap ... but if they fail, you need to push things beyond their comfort or control zone.

At present they are playing you about because you are being too reasonable ... they perceive you to be weak, you're not a VIP etc, it's one against many. Somehow you have to step up a gear.

You are actually saving your partner from them, from a bad fate as a weak and dependent male and from his controlling, interfering mother. You are doing a good thing spiritually ... you need to keep such a good motivation in your own mind.

BTW, the BKs use the "do nothing and sending positive thoughts" line to dissolve relationships. You are motived by positive thoughts already, you don't need their dishonest advice and should probably tell the so. Give them no authority over yourself whatsoever.
"Allah saved you from me"

Completely dishonest and nonsensical manipulation from a BK point of view. They say their god Shiva is Allah, the BK god spirit (shaitan) and his agents causing this problem in the first place!
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ex-l

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post17 May 2017

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.”

- Edmund Burke

Good people doing nothing, or at least just not quite enough, is what has allowed the BKs to triumph as much as they have.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post18 May 2017

Dear fearless,

You have misunderstood my intentions in my last post. Plan B means a back up plan. I did not say you should not continue with your Plan A, just that you should widen your thinking to consider alternatives and be prepared.

I did not ask for you to predict where you will be in 5 years, only what you want your life to be like in 5 years, then to take the steps to get there. My intention here was to make you think whether you are helping create the kind of life you want by putting your energy into this, or whether it is delaying achieving that or even possibly taking you further from that.

The "brick wall" refers to the fact that the BKs do not change, but they can be affected in small ways in small matters. It may be fortuitous that you and Zenobia have come on this forum at the same time, you may be able to link up with her to do some truth-telling to the general public in India via the mainstream media, or just start locally ...

My concern is for you after your expression of potential self-harm. The question you may not be asking yourself - for fear of disliking the answer is - if all the things eventuate as you’d like them to, will this man be the kind of man you think he may become - mature, responsible, intimate and honest etc, or will he be another slightly changed version of what he has shown up to now -ad will that person satisfy you in future?

I do not know you or him any more than the words on this forum reveal. I do know the BKs. All might work out just as you want it to based on your efforts ... but they may not. The advice from ex-l and others is good advice for your Plan A if you want to do that - don’t expect it to be easy, be prepared to ”cut your losses”, do not become "co-dependent" and lose your autonomy. Good luck in whatever you choose to do. .

Weblink - Signs of codependency in relationship
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Fearless.soul

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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

Post18 May 2017

@pink panther

I apologise you, for misunderstanding your reviewes on my issue
"Plan B means a back up plan..."

.. I agree, but frankly telling you at present I am not able to plan anything as alternative.

In Indian society, we female have been brought up this way since from our childhood, we always consider family's 'male member's'​ wishes at first place, no matter how many centuries would be change, but still we (females) couldn't get out from giving priority of "male wishes" kind of virtues, because one or other way we are mentally forced to live with such dependency. Indian society has been based on such 'male dominating' pillars.

If I wish to be different from such society, I couldn't hold up for long because it is not seem "normal" to live that way in India. That's why may be my efforts looks like "codependency". You are right in some point, but Indian men knew this "dependency" of females​, as men too have been brought up that way since from childhood to be protective/caring for "female member" of the family. Some of men indeed misused it too.
"what you want your life to be like in 5 years, then to take the steps to get there."

I am taking steps in the same direction, but that's not co-dependency with my partner, it's simply our in-born nature because of family and cultural influences​.
"... by putting your energy into this or whether it is delaying achieving that or even possibly taking you further from that."

I am putting my energy to live life which we both have planned together, but because of 'third person' interference (mother and BKs) things gets off the track. But we will be on correct track soon, Inshallah Amen.
"The brick wall refers to the fact that the BKs do not change, but they can be affected in small ways in small matters. It may be fortuitous that you and Zenobia have come on this forum at the same time, you may be able to link up with her to do some truth-telling to the general public in India via the mainstream media, or just start locally..."

I do accept and understand all this, and I am not willing to change anyone (BK), I just want to throw them (BK) out of my life's circle, by reminding them aout their 'limits', nothing else. Zenobia can definitely be supportive in my issue, if only she wish then. I cannot force any of you people to do something to help me in my issue. Yes, through this forum I can take some guidance and perspective to deal with BKs, which I am getting from yours valuable replies and am thankful for that.
"My concern is for you after your expression of potential self- harm. The question you may not be asking yourself for fear of disliking the answer is - if all the things eventuate as you’d like them to, will this man be the kind of man you think he may become - mature, responsible, intimate and honest etc, or will he be another slightly changed version of what he has shown up to now -ad will that person satisfy you in future?"

Pink panther thanks so much for showing concern and for giving such fact full guidance. Actually, I have been thinking about the same, "what if ...? Will he be ...?" and I am feeling 'positive hope' after questioning with myself​ like this ... and I want to trust my instincts the way I used to do always. I have already spend 7 years with this Relationship and I have nothing to lose now. I just want to make an efforts to make him realise, to awaken him to see what he has done or doing irresponsibly, and to break their (mother-son) misbelief in BKs.
"I do not know you or him any more than the words on this forum reveal. I do know the BKs. All might work out just as you want it to based on your efforts ... but they may not. The advice from ex-l and others is good advice for your Plan A if you want to do that - don’t expect it to be easy, be prepared to ”cut your losses”, do not become ‘co-dependent” and lose your autonomy. Good luck in whatever you choose to do."

... Pink panther, you understood me exactly the way I am, through my words shared on this topics. I have already put my relationship on risk by rejecting to do some BK course in condition to save my relationship, I did not choose to compromise and I want him to understand the same thing, the way we have been living since from 7 years and decided to live in future together.
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