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Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 18 May 2017
by Fearless.soul

Thank you very much. If ever happen to meet you it would be one of good fortune of mine.

I had talk with BK KARUNA Bhai before sometime. He has received my complaint email and he forwarded the email to 2-3 other concerned persons​. I explained him that both mother-son misusing BKs Gyan for their own selfish purpose and they wanted me too to follow BKism, but I don't need to do that, so mother don't liked it and she has started humiliating me through her half-knowledge about BKs, Brahma Kumaris should have stop both of them coming to center, because they both are deliberately involving Brahma Kumaris in such personal relationship matters.

I gave him brief details about my partner's​ mother, Father and their relationship, because mother is playing badly with me and my partner, using his dependency on her. Karuna Bhai said...
"we, Brahma Kumaris have been never give such Gyan to create disturbance/a'shanti within family members. In fact, we tell our followers to maintain peace within family first, charity begins at home​. Then after come outside​ with our peace of mind theories, we have never given such personal relationship advice (I told him about mother's conspiracy with NIRANJANA BEN about me), you just wait and watch because I don't think your partner would hold it for long, because such immediate changes wouldn't stay for long, we will personally clear his misunderstanding about Gyan given by us, because we wishe the welfare of people. If it is possible come to Mount Abu center to meet me personally along with your partner ... and don't involve center in charge or zone in charge, because they will not do anything in it."

I said, OK I'll tell them about your invitation, and if my partner would agrees to come, we will come to meet you.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 18 May 2017
by ex-l
Fearless.soul wrote:Karuna Bhai said...

"we, Brahma Kumaris have been never give such Gyan to create disturbance/a'shanti within family members. In fact, we tell our followers to maintain peace within family first, charity begins at home​.

Karuna Shetty is slippery and tricky as hell. All the leaders are. I don't know of one honest straight shooter. I have crossed paths with him. He was not above being dishonest in legal matters.

Shetty also knows damned fine about all the nonsense and family problems that goes on in BKism with families. He is their top media manipulator .. and is "doublespeaking" to you here. (One meaning for BK, one meaning for outsiders). They do not "give such Gyan to create disturbance" ... they just create automatically by default!!!

But, there could be a good opportunity here ...

What's going on here now is he hopes to get you up to Mount Abu to be impressed by their big buildings anf "zapped" by their "vibrations" ... it's another conversion/disarming attempt. Only worth it if they pay and your faith strong ... however ... travelling alone with your partner for such a long journey (without the old bag of a mother) might be a chance to talk.

Mount Abu is also a holiday resort for couples on their honeymoon.

If you choose to go ... stay in a hotel *outside* of the BK accommodation and spend time away from BKism.

There are also many non-BKs in Abu who dislike the BKs to give a different view.

Something to add here ... to be warned of ... the BKs are changing, and he could play at being at being a BK for 3 or 5 years, or until his mother dies ... and then leave taking a young and submissive Brahma Kumari with him as a wife. It's starting to happen (BKs breaking celibacy and marrying off).

You, as a women, do not have that luxury of waiting therefore I think if you don't try everything you can, you will regret it ... even if you cannot shake the mother's curse off him.

There are, of course, many strong and positive, alternative female role models in India's history, from warrior queens, to gurus; to social reformers and even bandits. You can rise above the norm.

Despite what they claim, the BKs are not a positive feminist or "womanist" religion, they are just following the old fashioned patrairchal or chauvinist model ... with them on top. You are proof of this. You are another innocent woman, and how are they treating you ... ganging up to steal your man (and his ultimately his house and income if they can) and leave you in the street with no life, or no family.

... And fighting you off with a wall of coordinated lies and subterfuge.

That is *zero* respect for others, *zero* respect for women. That is their reality, and let the world know it.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 18 May 2017
by Arbit

You are in an unfortunate situation and you have some tough decisions to make.

BK philosophy can convince people that they are very special and are about to receive highly privileged positions in a new world order. It can be difficult to ignore this idea, especially when they are surrounded by intelligent and successful people who believe the same. Once convinced, it can be very difficult to discard this belief. If at all, it can take several years for one to overcome it.

BK meditation can be helpful. In general, a quiet mind, devoid of distracting negative thoughts, works better. BK meditation can help achieve that state. Your boyfriend may have experienced benefits. Further, he may be convinced that following the BK doctrine may benefit his career. He may have even experienced some success recently, which will further strengthen the belief.

Since your boyfriend is a Muslim, he may receive special attention at BK centers, making it harder for you to show him the outside world.

Even if your boyfriend now tries to leave BKs, he could go through an internal emotional struggle, which can last for some time. This can hamper his relationship with you.

Unless your boyfriend has deceived you materially, you may have little legal recourse, although you should check with a lawyer.

Your tiffs with BK people are just that - quarrels. BKs will ultimately say that your boyfriend is making independent decisions. In some sense, your boyfriend has decided to leave you, and there is little one can do about matters of the heart.

So you should now ask yourself a few questions - for how long will you pursue this relationship, are you better off seeking another partner, etc?

Please note that people on this forum are well-meaning, but they are not relationship or legal counselors (including me). Many may not understand the nuances of your cultural background. You are educated and articulate. You may want to seek professional counseling to help you through this phase of life.

Good luck.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 19 May 2017
by ex-l
Arbit wrote:Your tiffs with BK people are just that - quarrels ...

Just "quarrels" ... rather than a well established habit and pattern?

Does "quarrels" place an equal blame on Fearless when the BKs know damn fine what they do, and what are doing? Whilst the rest is reasonable enough, I have to disagree with this element.

Largely, I see BKism as a confidence trick ... specifically a "Long Game". I find it hard to blame the victims of it who do not know what the game or con is, and how it works.
A long con or big con (also "long game") is a scam that unfolds over several days or weeks and involves a team of swindlers, as well as props, sets, extras, costumes, and scripted lines. It aims to rob the victim of huge sums of money or valuable things, often by getting him or her to empty out banking accounts and borrow from family members.

In India, even if there is sexual intercourse with consent ... but the consent was obtained by fraud, e.g. a promise of marriage ... it amounts to rape (Section 415 of the Indian Penal Code) and is punishable by fines and/or a prison sentance.

Even in the US, half the states says that a promise to marry is legally enforceable and where the agreement fulfills all the basic requirements of a valid contract, the failure to fulfill a promise to marry is treated like a breach of contract ... leading to damages, that could include mental cruelty and loss of reputation.

Have a look at Kanoon for court records on such matters. Being aware that the law is unpredictable can go in both directions, perhaps the key component what how much the son knew of and shared in the mother's beliefs and how much under her and the BKs undue influence he is. It would be good to drag them into court to examine what had been going on.

There is no way a son would live with a BK mother without knowing her preferences and beliefs and many attempts on conversion having been made.

If this Mount Abu trip is going to come off, it is interestingly symbolic.

On one hand, Mount Abu is the BKs' heaven on earth where all their biggest and best "palaces of gold" are being built. According to them, it is the "only place pure enough" for God Himself to incarnate and speak in person to the BKs ... the only people, the BKs teach, who God speaks to directly (they teach that God does not indeed speak directly to other religious followers, that their intellects are not pure or wise enough to understand him).

On the other hand, Mount Abu is also famous honeymoon resort for newly weds. There are many nice hotels for them to stay in and be entertained.

This in itself is a huge joke ... because how exactly do newly weds "entertain" themselves at night!?! Of course, they have sex ... lots of it ... love, sex and affection to establish emotional bonding. They create attachments with each other (one of the worst sins for BKs).

The place the BKs believe is so pure ... is, in fact, full of "the poison of sex lust" (as the BKs call it) !!!

What a hysterical paradox.

Therefore, for you and your partner it would be a highly symbolic 'life journey'. What destinations is he going to chose ... the BKs' celibate 'make believe' heaven (financed by vulnerable or egotistical donors), or a real, loving relationship with you?

What life is he choosing to live ... a life living off donations (or his mother's sponsorship of him as a BK evangelist), or growing up as a man in a real life with you?

A life as a spiritual parasite - dependent upon and then, we presume, serving his mother according to her taste - or a normal healthy growing life with an mature, intelligent independent woman (you)?

(And, trust me, one has to accept being 'dumded down' or infantilised to remain as an unquestioning BK).

There is a strong elements of narcissism (2nd link) and delusions of grandeur within BKism, I would read up on both (see the link on the use of language).

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 19 May 2017
by Pink Panther
The 'long con' often involves the innocent involvement of people to do tasks which they don’t know are part of another ‘plan’, or they turn a blind eye.

How to tell who the con artists are?

Follow the big money, follow where the real benefits flow. The best con artists do not draw attention to themselves directly, they usually a have a "front” and know how to deflect attention.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 20 May 2017
by Fearless.soul

Thank you. I will keep this in mind.

Thank you so much Ex-I for flashing out more logical ways to understand my issue, all links are very helpful for me.

@pink panther

Thank you.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 27 May 2017
by Pink Panther
Fearless.soul wrote:@pink panther
Thank you.

You are welcome.

You are in an unenviable situation, dealing with the tug of war of your feelings for a person who has their own psychological & emotional pulls, an only son whose sense of duty and loyalty is exploited by a possessive, jealous mother. And all that is added to in finding yourself up against his decision to follow a cultish religion that consumes the whole life of a person, that preaches aloof detachment from everything non-BK, and overtly condemns fulfilling intimate relationships between consenting adults as inferior, sinful, that life is not worth living except as a BK.

Once someone has drunk deeply of the BK ”water”, there is a toxic poisoning that is hard to remove. Lives are diverted, bank balances and careers hijacked, many are left permanently scarred and damaged, unable to reconcile the needs of their deeper true selves with the conditioned rationalised beliefs of their adopted identity, often leaving and returning to the BKs over decades, a pattern of addiction and confused dependency.

This forum is full of tales of marriages that have been damaged and destroyed by one partner’s involvement with BKs, and from children of BKs who’ve grown up with the strange role-modelling of a BK parent, or parents. The only consolation in this painful saga - and please don't take this the wrong way - is that this crisis of relationship has happened before you got married.

So, based on my personal knowledge and experience of the BKs and from the tales shared by others, I am wishing you the best for your life, and I will repeat my belief that you should work for the best (of what you hope for) but be prepared for the worst.

I do recommend you read through this forum for different people’s experiences of their relationships with BKs - parents, children, spouses, friends and hwo they have dealt with it. It may be that fate has something in store for you just over the horizon.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 27 May 2017
by Fearless.soul
BK wins again.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 27 May 2017
by ex-l
Fearless.soul wrote:BK wins again.

Each time the BKs "wins" in such a case, they sink a litle lower.

People need to be Fearless to confront them about the damage they are doing to society for the sake of their madness and self-centred conceit.

I wonder what BKs reading think ... do they just go "Drama" and forget it ... do they think, "quite right, what an impure and ignorant Shudra this woman is!" ... or do they feel any shame or doubt about what they are doing?

Worst thing about being a BK is believing everything has to repeat identically the same in 5,000 years time ... and again ... and again ... and again ... and again ... and again ...

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 28 May 2017
by Pink Panther
The BKs have not won. They are lost in a delusion into which they have drawn another person. That you were not drawn in means you were victorious over all the attempts by them, your ex-boyfriend, his mother etc to get you drawn into their fantasy of self-justifying spiritual arrogance. Unlike them, you have not lost yourself.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 28 May 2017
by ex-l
Yes, it's a small consolation I admit ... but the mother's manipulation of you, e.g. the emotional manipulation for you to do the 7 Day Course based on your love for and wish to be with her son.

Trust me on this as well ... she's a crappy BK as well as any pukka BK would know you cannot convert individuals via such strategies. Her control and manipulation over son is clearly "undue influence' and rank (stinks).

I can imagine you are going through terrible pain right now but you don't not know how lucky you are never to have *her* in your life.

We will see how long he lasts for ... life as a BK is no holiday. Unless you are driven from within, it's very hard to keep up with the disciplines. And what adult male wants his mother on his back nagging him to get up at 4 am every morning, go to class and listen to the same old driven every day for the rest of his life at 6.30 am ... to have his life decided for him by some old, uneducated crones and their male counterparts. To be back in the Hindu caste system under the guise of juniors and Seniors, and center-in-charges and Dadis etc.

He cannot seriously understand what he is signing up for at this point.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 16 Mar 2022
by Arun1970
I am from India, what should I do? My wife and children are in BKs' trap, please any help me.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 18 Mar 2022
by Pink Panther
HI Arun,

Sorry to hear about this situation. If you could let us know a bit more detail then we might be able to respond more directly.
    * Are your children adults, teenagers, younger children - and what is your wife's situation?

    * Who was the first to become involved and how long has each of your family been involved?

    * What is their level of education and sophistication in regards to religion, gurus and cults generally?

    * How seriously is each one involved now- are the all "equally serious", e.g. how often do they attend and how strictly do they follow the BK "commandments" of celibacy, diet, cutting off relations with non-BKs, giving money and time to the BKs?

    * Is one of them a lynchpin that brought the others into the BK orbit and who continues to influence them to keep them there?
The main thing here is firstly to ensure that you are not being exploited to support their choices.

If they are adults, earning their own money and donating it, it is their right to make bad choices - unless what was once going into the household - time, energy, money, is now being diverted to the BKs.

But if you are the main income earner, paying food and rent etc and they do not have such responsibility, giving them the time and freedom to be involved in BKs, you are effectively enabling and subsidising them.

Be wary of your family's wealth and resources being drained away. It may be that you are too busy with work to be able to influence what they do but you should at least be able to limit any finances going there.

If your children are younger, still studying, under parental guardianship, then you have at least an equal say in what they can and cannot do. In that case I would suggest you to get them involved in other activities and groups of people in their free time - because a lot of the attraction to BKs is the sense of belonging to a group of similar interests, and co-dependecy within the devotees builds up - i.e. they encourage each other to be more and more"pukka BK".

I suggest you browse this site and read other people's experiences to see what might be useful in your situation, and alo to learn a bit about how the BKs operate, what tricks they use and how they are not what they publicly present themselves to be.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 18 Mar 2022
by ex-l
Arun1970 wrote:I am from India, what should I do? My wife and children are in BKs' trap, please any help me.

Hi Arun,

I am sorry to read of your troubles. Sadly to say, we've read & heard of many cases, & these are a typical patterns of BK behaviours going right back to the cult's beginnings in the Sindh.

Pink raises some good questions that will help us help you. Please get back to us regarding them.

In addition, I'd like to ask you just to "take a breath" for a moment, & don't react too strongly to what you will find out about the BKs here. You need to be really careful about how you handle this issue & not raise your wife's concerns in the first place.

Other BKs, including high ranking ones, WILL start to collude with your wife against you advising her on how to weaken & handle you. If you start to challenge her, she will seek advice or be sent to speak to them & they will work against you.

Yes, without a doubt, the BKs primary interests are the acquisition of money, property, & free labor, e.g. widows, divorces, but especially young virgins to work as servants at the centres. Young virgins have an especially high value for the BKs & are taken away & trained up to become BK teachers or centres-in-charge because of their "purity".

What does your daughter really think about the BKs herself (as in not what her mother makes her think). Many mothers live through their daughters & whereas they themselves are not in a position to surrender, & are considered half-BKs "in bondage", they push their daughters to do what they cannot ... when, in truth, all the daughters want to do is be normal or perhaps escape an arranged marriage.

Re: Is there some legal action to take against the BKs?

PostPosted: 27 Jun 2022
by because.parmeshwar
Many old BKs are now in their 50+ are wandering here and there. They are out of the belief of 5000 years cycle and the establishment of deity kingdom by 2036. Those who are staying at the centres or in Madhuban are just managing with the stupidity as they know they will be nowhere if they come out so they continuing. Of course, doing seva and Yoga is keeping them high, but now their belief is also shattered.

Those who are out are of nowhere for sure. As they abandoned the lokik family long back and now out of the Yagya too.