Some question regarding BK experience

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ex-l

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post19 Aug 2017

And apt quote ...
Mesmer was right for the wrong reasons, so his critics were wrong for the right reasons, and failed to draw the correct conclusions from their observations.

... So too with arguments relating to the validity of spiritualists' claims.

Or, as I have written before ...

The only thing reliable about any religion dabbing with spiritualism, is that spirits and spiritualism is unreliable.

That does not mean spirits and spiritualism don't exist, it just means that they are a bad bet to invest your life into.

The aim of BKism is to turn you into a brainless puppet for their 'god spirits' to pull your strings, emptying your purse and stealing your property on the way. How ever it works and whoever their 'god spirits' are.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post20 Aug 2017

Braid came along and stripped it of its hocus pocus elements and turned it into a therapy, developing 'self-' or 'auto-hypnotism'. He saw it as merely a psycho-physiological mechanism. A a psychological phenomena rooted in a physiological process. Interestingly, Braid researched eye-fixation and also drew analogies between his own practice of hypnotism and various forms of Hindu Yoga meditation and other ancient spiritual practices.

The relaxation response research by Benson was important because he too stripped away the mumbo jumbo. Now let's be clear that the word ”relaxation” as used here is not about merely kicking back on a sunny sunday afternoon at a picnic, or having a pint after work. Initially developed by Edmund Jacobsen as a technique to deal with the ”shell shock” (or PTSD as its now called) of returning soldiers, Benson followed up with more rigorous research to satisfy the requirements of scientific method.

What Benson’s (and Jacobsen’s) work implies is that one does not need a ”higher power”, guru, religious belief or ritual to attain a state of quietude from which ”healing” can begin, but that there is a general "formula" used by many traditions that can be distilled, or that can utilise beliefs and traditions for the same end.

That is, by this process he showed that no single one of these traditions or beliefs is correct to the exclusion of the others, they are all equally correct, or, rather, they are all including more than is necessary to achieve the goal of spiritual ”healing” or rejuvenation that follows ”letting go”.

It could be more generously said the belief systems or spiritual practices each provide a cultural context that people (who often need such context) can choose from for the one that ”fits" them.

Ecumenicism sees the religious people saying ”many roads one destination” but of the people I have met, they pay mere lip service to that, most of them would, in other circumstances, argue theirs is the best, and in BKs' case, the only ”road”.

Every morning a BK mixes up a bubble liquid with their meditation + Murli routine, then endeavours to live in that bubble throughout the day, with every shrimat-based thought and action being about avoiding things that will prick that bubble.

OK, that analogy can used for every ego-based, ego-reinforcing practice but that just shows the shallowness of BK teachings and practice. "Don’t have that kind of ego, have this one."
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ex-l

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post20 Aug 2017

Pink Panther wrote:Now let's be clear that the word ”relaxation” as used here is not about merely kicking back on a sunny sunday afternoon at a picnic, or having a pint after work ...

Which is all very well ... but it only really relates to the first or second level of practise and it's in complete denial of the latter stages where the intense or mediumistic experiences start to kick in.

Again, the relaxation and 'letting go' practises are *also* taught within classical Christian Spiritualism within the West ... and I suspect in all other mediumistic practises worldwide, as a means to that end. And it is an end BKism shares.

I would say many people are duped to believe BKism is *only* those relaxation levels. And for many people, their involvement in BKism may only go as far as that. If that even (I'd say many are just sitting there and still stuck in "Bhakti" repeating a mantra to themselves). It was even one of the hooks the BKs use to suck people in, eg the "Peace of Mind" advertising line attracting those who were peaceless of mind.

But it does not explain the full depth or spectrum of experiences subject to the BK practise which, you will remember fine, includes the spirit possession, trance and mediumistic demonstrations. Or the overshadowing by other spiritual beings (so they claim).

How do we explain the peak BK experiences that go far beyond just relaxation, the out of the body and seed-like stage and so on? I think you're being misleading if you portray it just as that, or even cultural pre-programming or auto-suggestion.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post21 Aug 2017

it only really relates to the first or second level of practise and it's in complete denial of the latter stages where the intense or mediumistic experiences start to kick in.

I don't buy into any hierarchy of first and second or subsequent levels. They are different states or different experiences for sure, but getting someone to suspend disbelief, to trust or to let go of past anxieties enough to be open to "new ideas and experiences" is not necessarily a lower state that is followed by a higher one. They are merely sequential. The sequence may be significant, but it doesn’t mean what comes after is better or higher, let alone preferable to what preceded it. Its giving something good to draw someone into believing there’s something better. But ...

It’s a form of greed. A bit like Mr Creosote in Python’s The Meaning of Life. Nothing wrong with relaxing and having a good meal. But he’s not satisified with a decent meal, he wants even more good food, then more, then he agrees to the after-dinner mint ...

Or ... Fish are scatty and wary creatures. It takes skill for a fisherman to intrude into the fish’s habitat and allow it to become comfortable enough again to see and take the bait.

So if a fish is lured to the bait then hooked, is that fish more free, more itself (self-realised as a fish) in the previous relaxed carefree time before it ever saw the bait, or in the ”promising” time when it noticed a "fly" so shiny that it did not see the hook beneath it? Was it when it in that moment when it felt calm & trusting enough to let go of its fears to ‘trust' the bait, or was it only fully ”present” in total self-awareness when it took the bait, or when it gave up the struggle and surrendered to the hook and its fate?

To a fisherman, the realisation of the worth of the fish is when its caught, before that the fish is merely a subaquatic possibility. People have no value to the BKs until they are caught. The BK magic knack is making the caught fish believe it only has worth because it has been caught.

OK, not great analogies but I hope you get my drift! Its a theme we have discussed elsewhere. It’s cursing ourselves by not appreciating the value of the ordinary, good simple things in life. Instead, someone dangles a shiny promise of "even better” in front of someone who usually already has enough but is told ”there’s more”. Relaxation - letting go - can be enough in itself or it can be a portal - to dreams or illusions or delusions, or into great insights. They all seem to be great insights - at the time.
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ex-l

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post21 Aug 2017

Pink Panther wrote:To a fisherman, the realisation of the worth of the fish is when its caught, before that the fish is merely a subaquatic possibility. People have no value to the BKs until they are caught. The BK magic knack is making the caught fish believe it only has worth because it has been caught.

... a shiny promise of "even better”.

Well, I certainly did not mean "levels" in terms of 'better', if that is what you are reacting against.

I might have said different depths of experience. I can concede that doing BK Raja Yoga, or the practises within BKism that lead up to BK Raja Yoga, still the mind significantly. I merely underline that *that* is not the purpose of it and that in "BK Raja Yoga" - a stolen terms from another genuinely ancient tradition and far broader school of yogic practise (Patanjali's) - is the "touching" element that this individual's Father is speaking off.

A union with their god spirit or, as I would describe it, an initiation into a relationship with that "god spirit" - which the BKs do before the individual *really* knows what they becoming involved within - through devious means and behind a curtain of half-truths and manipulations.

I am a fish who took the bait and, I hope, freed myself. I was 'in the boat'. Now, I hope, I am back in the water.

I am trying to teach people how to think and how to assess what they are being fed, and to look out for the hooks before they swallow it.

Looking at the language of how the BKs present their god spirit these days, in order to broaden the appeal for their 'fishing expeditions', it is becoming even more obscured. They use words like "The Source", on top of old stuff like "The Light" or "The Father" etc to refer to him. BKs know what those words mean within BKism. Outsiders are misled to believe they mean what they think they mean, in order to hook them in. Even in order to act as bait to more and attract bigger tasty fish. They think they are uniting with their god, or universal states, not the BKs' spook.

I say, look at all these signs to understanding what you are getting involved with. Is it honest, open, accountable, truthful? Would you expect a good god or god person to be?

But, to get back to the original poster, I think the question they should be asking is not so much, "should I try out BKism ... should I open myself and allow the BK god spirit within my aura?" (to which the answer is an outstanding "no way on earth"), but "My Father has been hooked by the BKs, what should I do?".

And my first line on that is always, forget the religion, forget the philosophy, ignore all the distractions ... secure the family's wealth and property *before* the BKs get their greedy, big devious hands on it. Because they will if they can. They'll take 10%, 90%, 100% is they can while chanting the mantra, "we don't ask for donations".

That's is fairly (but not quite) true, they don't ask for donations ... they brainwash their victims into surrendering everything with the "jam tomorrow" equation you are writing about. "Work for us for free, give us everything, surrendered your mind, body and wealth today ... because time is short and the End of the World is near!!! ... and you'll get multi-million fold jam tomorrow (wealth and status in the Golden Age).

Can they save their Father? Do they want to save their Father? Should they save their Father and mother (who if she is not already a BK could end up being given to the BKs as a servant along with his property)?

Those are the real questions I'd be asking.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post22 Aug 2017

The essential stages are: contemplation; conversation; and concentration.
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ex-l

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post22 Aug 2017

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:The essential stages are: contemplation; conversation; and concentration.

Conversation ... how and with whom?

What is your take on the comparison between BKism and auto-suggestion or auto-hypnosis in its introductory or superficial stages?
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because.parmeshwar

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post23 Aug 2017

If the BK God is the universal God, and God of all religions, then why an individual who does the BK meditation ultimately falls into the web of BK leaders? He becomes no where in the world even if decides to accept the universal GOD as the point of light. If not in the cult, he left alone and separated. The only one option he is left with, is to go to the BK circle if he needs any social contact.
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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post23 Aug 2017

because.parmeshwar wrote:The only one option he is left with, is to go to the BK circle if he needs any social contact.

I heard a quote recently that went something to the extent of, "the best way to gain control over another, is to promise them love ... and then withhold it".

To understand the dynamics of that better, look at what is called "attachment theory" (John Bowlby) and how it applies to cult leadership (or here).

In the first link, it mention some cruel studies called 'Harlow’s Monkeys (1958)'. Now take that general form, and apply to present and exiting cult members.

I still don't think it present a complete picture within BKism as within BKism, there is or are other active parties or entities involved. The experiences are not all of the self or within the self, what they claim is that your are dabbling about in a relationship in which attachment theory might apply with another controlling being ... nevermind the burden of the BK leadership, bureaucracy and second hand social mores.

A world view in which even if you leave it alone, will it leave you alone?
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post24 Aug 2017

Ex-I,

For sure, there is auto-suggestion, especially for neophytes of BK meditation. Some individuals can remain in the auto-suggestion stage for years.

With all forms of meditation, there are experiences of altered states of consciousness (ASC). During ASC, has been documented that individuals can encounter spirits, including the departed souls of relatives and friends. ASC is also experienced during near death experiences (NDEs).

Some individuals during meditation, in the conversation stages may be having meta-physical conversations with incorporeal entities, that are not the Supreme Spirit.

Pink,

you discussed Benson's experiments.

The RR discovered by Benson was also demonstrated in cats by Walter Hess. The RR in many respects is the exact physiological opposite or antagonist for the flight-or-flight or emergency response (ER).
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Pink Panther

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Re: Some question regarding BK experience

Post01 Nov 2017

As it's Halloween ...

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