My induction, current status and what next?

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
  • Message
  • Author
Offline

O_Relly

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2015

My induction, current status and what next?

Post20 Sep 2017

Hi,

About Me:
------------
I live in Europe and am of Indian origin by birth and born into a Hindu family. I am male, married for 12 years with a boy who is now 5 years old. I was not a believer in religion or god with reasoning and logic in my growing up, adolescent years. I was (still am) a firm believer in positive thoughts and positive energy.

My introduction to Brahmakumaris:
-------------------------------------------
About 2 years ago, at a time when I was carrying work-related stress, I was looking for ways to improve my focus and concentration when I discovered online a talk organized by Brahmakumari's about 'Handling Stress and Emotional healing ' which involved a guided voice meditation session, which I totally enjoyed.

From them on, I attended many more weekend talks and eventually signed up and completed two x 4-week courses,
    1. Power of positive thinking.
    2. Raja Yoga meditation.
Advanced course and practicing Raja Yoga:
----------------------------------------------------
I absolutely loved the above two courses, and started practicing Raja Yoga meditation, which helped me handle my stress better at work. It had a very positive impact on me.

After completing both of the above 4 week courses, I was invited to advanced courses to the center by the center head, where I was introduced to the bigger picture and was inducted into the BK way of life and practices to follow:
    * Abstain from drinking alcohol.
    * Vegetarianism - Should not eat onions and garlic.
    * Celibacy - At this point, we were and still are planning on having a 2nd baby.
    * Reading the daily Murli
    * Visiting the center at least once a week
The concept of celibacy was left to be discovered, it was never directly mentioned. It was a big shock for me when I first discovered that it was a requirement to become a practicing BK and return to the Golden Age.

As I was always narrating my learnings to my wife, I could see her growing increasingly concerned, but I kept reassuring her, that that was unacceptable to me. However, at the same time, I was also asking questions to the center head, if it was OK to have a second baby and then start practicing celibacy? I was never told what to do, it was always, for me to choose.

Wanting more, to experience the next high:
-----------------------------------------------------
As I was already enjoying and seeing the newly found benefits of Raja Yoga meditation, I started feeling the connection during my meditation sessions. I became more aware of my feelings and my environment and emotions of my peers and my wife and felt a lot more in control.

I wanted to try.

So, I quickly adopted and practiced vegetarianism. [Note: At this point, my diet was already on a moderate-fat, high-protein, low-carb, zero sugar, a diet which included lots of meat in my daily diet and I was convinced this was the way going forward for health benefits and I was training in a gym and running etc. I was also not drinking a lot of alcohol, just a social drinker]

I then completely gave up drinking alcohol and turned vegetarian diet completely giving up onion and garlic very easily. Even here, I was still seeing these as positive things and as transformational.

I was also watching a lot of awakening youtube videos by Sister Jayanti and Sister Shivani. I must admit I enjoyed and saw a lot of truth in those videos, which were all concepts for living a better life and being in control of one's own emotions.

I, however, did not see any significant improvement or drastic change in my meditation sessions.

I then started considering celibacy to experience the heightened meditation. But I have to be honest, that my libido started coming down and my sexual thoughts or drive started coming down. At this point, I was however certain, it wasn't fair to my wife and that I would never become completely celibate, but I just wanted to try it out for a few months to experience if the meditation/connection would become better.

My wife started seeing these differences in me (no alcohol, vegetarian diet) and never subscribed to my learnings or positive experiences which I was achieving through my meditation. This used to frustrate me that she wasn't seeing the benefits.

My center head once invited my wife as well on the occasion of Raksha bandhan and on another occasion and tried to talk to her that this BK way of life was for families to practice together. But my wife was NOT for it, as she had her own belief system which is firm in its place and she is happy with it.

There were periods when we went without sex and I still did not see any big difference in my meditation sessions.

Moment of truth/fall-out:
---------------------------------

During this period, I was still continuing to question during my advance sessions, how much I wish to subscribe to? I was already happy how much I had learned and lived my life with meditation, having given up alcohol and totally enjoyed being vegetarian. I felt my body was just much lighter and I felt like I was always on high-energy.

Not sure if I would call it a fall-out, but there came an occasion when a senior Dadi was visiting in London and I was invited to go amongst one of the few BKs to go to visit. When it came to booking train/flight tickets and sorting accommodation, I was told I could be accommodated in the center only if I followed the BK ways (daily Murli reading, vegetarianism, and celibacy) and I pointed out that I was still not practicing celibacy, so we agreed I would find my own accommodation and then still work-out how to meet the senior Dadi.

Later they dropped me as it would be extremely difficult to coordinate me meting the Dadi as it wouldn't be planned, which I was OK with.

Slowly after we agreed I had enough learning to be on my own and did not need the advance sessions anymore. This was mutual and I would still be in touch going to occasional talks and sessions to the center.

Current status:
------------------
Slowly I got back to eating non-veg as it was getting difficult with family get-to-gathers and even just my wife and son to sit down for a meal. And slowly I fell off the daily meditation and back to being stressed at work etc. Also not being disciplined about eating and drinking and not training, but giving into emotional and careless eating and gaining weight etc. It feels like I am back to the life before I discovered brahmakumaris.

What next?
-------------
I still want to practice Raja Yoga meditation and get back to having control and having a positive outlook and not let work stress and day to day stuff get the better of me. I then explored mindfulness, (just watching youtube videos) which worked great for some time.

Questions:
-------------
    So what is the better alternative?
    Can I just continue to start and practice Raja Yoga meditation from what I have learned?
    Can I continue to watch youtube videos of Sister Jayanti and Sister Shivani to be in touch?
    whilst not subscribing to vegetarianism or celibacy?
Thanks for reading and would highly appreciate for thoughts/suggestions and experiences,

Cheers,
OR

ps: Sorry for the rather long post, but I felt the need to give the full context.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post20 Sep 2017

No need to apoloogise. Indeed, thank you very much for taking the time and energy to present a very well structured post. It helps us in not only knowing you and your experience, but also keeping up to date with the latest developments within BKism.

It is late for me now and so I can only offer a short reply right now. Others will answer, we are all in different time zones here.

You were, of course, being slowly "cooked alive", a process that the BKs have become highly skilled at. The "special" meeting with the Dadis was, in essence, supposed to be your sealing as a BK.

And what would that mean? In essence, the end of your relationship with and ultimate mental and emotional detachment from your wife and family ... which your wife already seems to be picking up on and is rightfully concerned about.

All of the "positive thinking" stuff is not the *real* BKism. It is only a sort of sales pitch, an external wrapping from what BKism *really* is about ... which is the total surrender of your mind, body and wealth to the BK god spirit and acceptance of its and their world view which, I presume you know by now, is utterly nihilistic. Depends entirely on the faith that this world and the rest of humanity except for BKs, is to be destroyed and annihilated.

That salespitch or marketing is also, largely, secondhand and derivative. Repackaged to selling - and finance - BKism.

Therefore what you could do is to do your own homework and go direct to the original sources. Don't depend on the "sugar laced" refinements of the BK cooking.

I'll end here for now, I really just wanted to say welcome and thank you.

More later ...
Offline

because.parmeshwar

exiting BK

  • Posts: 264
  • Joined: 18 Dec 2009

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

Welcome to the forum O_Relly

I am from India. I was in the BKs for 15 long years. I joined the group in my youth, i.e at 25 and their teachings inspired me to live a celibate life so I decided to remain Kumar (which still I am). I spent the whole of my time in the BKs, but working to pay for my own expenses and to contribute to the centre's seva. 1995-2000 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 4-5 years. I, foolishly, started to stock petrol, water and other eatable things so that if Destruction comes we have sufficient stock to survive and remember Baba. My Father was really worried about my foolishness and he tried to awaken me to my rubbish. But I insulted him as well and said that I had "gotten the introduction of my real Father, the incorporeal Father and you are only my bodily Father".

I never planned the long term carrier, family etc I remained single.

At 40, I realized that I have been fooled and started withdrawing myself from the BKs. They did not bother at all, they are least concerned with the individual's life. This website helped me a lot to know the reality of BKs and their system. In fact I saved myself by reading the posts of ex-I and others who seems to be more spiritual and realistic than those of surrendered ones in BKs. Gradually, I discovered that there are few others splinter groups in the BKs and they themselves are not fully convinced about the Gyan. Few adopted the BK lifestyles as a white coloured business while others remained their because they have no other place to go.

After leaving, life became hell and I had no place to go. I was dropped by my lokiks and I left the alokiks. By nature, I am very introvert type of person and I hesitate to mix with the people, make new friends and associate with the colleagues of my work place. Thankfully, I never quit my job and continuously earned money for myself. Though never tried to progress in my carrier and enhance my living status, I earned sufficient enough for myself.

The BKs are not just for getting peace of mind or to practice meditation. It's a different lifestyle which they never tell people at the beginning. People get trapped with their sweet talks, the initial high feel with their meditation, the virtual family feeling etc etc.

I only can say if you decide to follow BKs by giving your finger, be prepared to get your whole body pulled into their system.

Thanks and good luck.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

Welcome O’Reilly,

Thanks for that informative and well-written opening post. Yes, the path you went along is well-worn. It has been refined with all kinds of updated signs promising there’s more just a little further down the road. The truth of it is what you have found - and it is actually regularly referred to in the Murli - is that it doesn’t actually get much better than the initial highs.

The Murli is always saying ”Remember the days of your childhood”. It is usually explained as meaning that you should remember the simple highs of when you first became a BK, before any doubts arose or before you started seeing the flaws in the teachings, the teachers, the organisation, the ”god”, the effect on your relationships etc.

It is, psychologically speaking, also subliminally cunning. It is a call to the psyche to regress into infantilism, to a time when all you had to do was follow things as laid out for you by others and you did not have to think for yourself. Big picture questions, the future, responsibilities to family, society or the next generations, all are irrelevant. Questions and contradictions are yet to appear.

That’s not to say that the meditation experience is not pleasant. There is definitely something to it or none of us would have felt anything and we would not have stayed involved with the BKs for as long as many of us did. But here’s something else to consider.

Although meditation is natural, even the BKs say so, and Yoga is an ancient tradition preceding what we now call Hinduism, yet the BKs like to claim ownership to all of it, saying they are the best and only real meditators and "true yogis", that all other meditations and yogis are inferior.

Although the religious sense of god has manifested throughout millenia in different ways and understood in so many ways, the BKs like to claim ownership to that too - only they know god, that their "Baba" is God - the supreme authority with all knowledge, and BKs are the only direct children of god. Yet their own god has changed over the time of their organisation existing, as have what is taught. And their god does not acknowledge in ”his” Gyan that the chinese exist, or that most of what the modern world is built on, the technology BKs love to exploit is based on evidence, knowledge and truths that directly contradict their "all-knowing" god”.

Taking one’s focus from possible causes of stress and unsatisfactoriness and getting you to re-place that focus on a particular technique along with adopting a new routine will of course bring benefit. It breaks the unsatisfactory pattern you felt.

You could substitute much of what you did and keep the benefits you felt. But the BKs make ex-BKs think it's a package deal, brainwashed into not being able to meditate at all because it only conjurs BK thoughts and memories, unable to be vegetarian because it automatically seem that to do so is to agree with the rest of what they teach, for example.

Sure celibacy can be good, but it can also be bad. Just as sex can be good or bad. There’s lots of celibates in the world, some do it to gain something, some do it to avoid something. How many do it of its own sake? The only ones I know of who prefer celibacy for its own sake do so for no religious or spiritual reason, they are naturally asexual, i.e. uninterested in sex, rather than fearing it or its power, or negative associations it has for them, or fighting it because it is so primal an impulse etc.

I can suggest you read around this forum, go back in the years - the date of most topics is usually irrelevant - and read the many experiences people have shared, the polemic arguments, the history and documentations in the archives showing how the BKs, who want to rule the universe, won’t even own their own history!

You will read posts about how they use smatterings of this and that to present a product that sucks people into voluntarily giving over tangible material capital such as money, time and energy - their whole lives - to benefit the organisation while the organisation gives back what? Only intangibles that are essentially seen to be universal when unwrapped from their ”proprietary branding”, but which they will claim to be the source of, despite their being ”Johnny come latelys” to the scene.

if you want to feel some of what you felt when you first went to the BKs again, consider this - when you went there, that was a step forward into a new experience and different way of living. Do not step backwards. But that is a lot of what they try to get their followers to want, to recapture the past high. And isn’t that what an addict is chasing?

Move forward - try a routine that maybe is similar to the BKs but truer- more universal. If you like the morning routine, then get up and go out for a walk and do some (physical) Yoga, mindfully, or other exercise and then some non-religious meditation on simplicity, presence, nature - enjoy the sunrise! If you want ”spiritual" then try activities that combine physical and philosophical - eg Taoist Yoga, Buddhist martial arts, or maybe check the science of the microbiome and nutrition and its effects on mood, emotions, and well being. Study comparative religion, mythologies, history, psychology. or just go dancing and do things together with your loving wife.

They nearly owned you. You are lucky to have gotten out so soon.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

Just for your information, we've all been BKs, we became active parts of the machine, we were 'done to' as you are being 'done to' and we 'did to' others too. We know the language, the people, the concepts and practises very well. In fact, there are elements of the cult, particularly the history, we know better than most current BKs.

However, for moral and ethical reasons ... a response to the abuse and manipulation and culture of dishonesty ... we all refused to go along with their agenda and stepped out. We now help others quickly get an overview of what it all means and, as Pink Panther write, where it all leads too.

In short, we ourselves were indoctrinated and we not only were taught how to indoctrinate others, like you, but helped the BKs refine their indoctrination process in our own ways going right back to the 1970s and 1980s, bridging the "traditional" BK approach - which was very Hinduistic in nature - to when the modernisation process or dressing up began - when it started to become Westernised and made to look more sophisticated. To become a "better mouse trap".

Forgetting the specific details of BK life, practise and brainwashing for one moment, in order to get an overview on the process, I'd recommend reading Lifton's "Criteria for Thought Reform", an academic view on the process of brainwashing, see the link below.
DR. ROBERT J. LIFTON'S CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM

Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the
same time pose the gravest of human threats.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

because.parmeshwar wrote:I am from India. I was in the BKs for 15 long years ... 1995-2000 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 4-5 years. I, foolishly, started to ...

And, thank you to because.parmeshwar for their sincere post.

I wanted to underline a pattern for you, O.

If I had written that post, I would have said, "1980-1985 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 2-3 years. I, foolishly, started to ..."

And if someone else had written that post, they would have said, "1970-1975 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 2-3 years. I, foolishly, started to ..."

And if others who are now possibly dead and wasted their entire lives on feeding the hungry BK machine and god spirit, they would have said, And if someone else had written that post, they would have said, "1945-1950 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 2-3 years. I, foolishly, started to ..."

And even,

"1936-1945 was the period of high propaganda about Destruction and we all had accepted that Destruction is round the corner and it's only matter of 2-3 years. I, foolishly, started to ..."

Do you see the pattern?

We were all sucked in by a different door. For some it was "Peace of Mind", for others is was a bogus claim of teaching "Raja Yoga" (BKism is not Raja Yoga, Raja Yoga is a borrowed or stolen term for a different practise, BKism is not even "Yoga", it is spiritualism, psychicism ... at a much lower psychic level than Yoga), for others it was a sort of Hinduism Lite™ (a stripped down "easy" version of Hinduism for ex-patriot Indians), or "Self Management" and so on.

All cunning artifical fronts - designed to attract different people in difference places at different times, all cleverly hooking our egos in some way - but leading to the same internal space where we became
    mentally trapped,
    cut off and separated from our loved ones, families and real life, and
    turned into kind of drones, unthinking "service robots" - promoters and recruiters - for the cult.
I would actually say, some kind of slaves. Largely, self-enslaved.

Many have lost years or their lives, some decades, others their entire lives, careers, families etc.

Most of us were single when we were sucked in. As an "impure" "householder" or "half-kumar" (only half-BK - which is how you are seen), you will have a different tragetory within the cult which we can explain to you if you wish.

Please understand when I write things like "impure", I do not express my sentiments but I am 100% accurately recording BK sentiments, as other others will confirm or we can directly support with quotations.

Have you started on the Murli classes yet?

Thank you.
Offline

O_Relly

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2015

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond ex-I, Pink Panther. and because.parmeshwar. It is all eerily scary and informative at the same time. @because.parameshwar: I am sorry to read your account and thank you for your sincere post.

More below from my experience:

Daily Muralis:
----------------

At the time of doing the advanced courses, there would be daily Murli reading sessions and the center head explained the meaning. It was always laced with sweet words and praises which was directed at the children ('me') which were all positive. I was then invited into joining the core Murli reading group who were reading it every morning via Skype audio call at 6:30 for 45 minutes. And although I wished and would have like to join, I realized that was a big ask in terms of the time commitment as we were also juggling a home just between me and my wife with an active 3-year-old.

I did not immediately commit but said I would start off by reading them on my own every morning and then join the daily group reading sessions a little later on.

During my own attempt to read it every day, I got mixed feelings, where I found it to be positive in bits and very repressive at the same time. The use of words such as Brahmins to address the BKs and shudras (lowest-rung of people on caste-based discrimination in India) disturbed me.

Having grown up in India, I was aware of the caste-based suppression and Brahmin supremacy issues, which is prevalent to this day in India.

When I brought this up, I was told, not to take the use of such terminology too seriously and it was just to differentiate people with impure and negative thoughts as shudras and the children of Brahma as Brahmins with pure and positive thoughts. The explanation was those who now remember the Father are all Brahmins.

This still did not sit well with me and at this time, I was advised to continue to keep reading it but ignore the parts that did not sit well with me and take the rest of the positives.

The explanation for Celibacy:
------------------------------------
When I questioned the need for celibacy and that sex was a completely natural urge, just like hunger, I was told that it was not natural and something that was learned along the way, just like how humans were curious and exploration leading to inventions and industrialization. Just like how all unnecessary emotions such as anger, jealousy, hatred were all learned along the way and that it was our choice how we choose to react/emote.

The bit that sounded convincing to me was this:

If you are a practicing BK then you are celibate, this makes it easy for one to work with you at a soul conscious level regardless of gender, age, as you are seeing them as souls and thoughts are pure and everyone is comfortable in talking and spending time with you as a soul and there is no reason or space for anyone to think otherwise.

I thought about it and it was true.

In the normal world, when a man (regardless of whether he is married or not) comes across as an attractive woman, it is primal to have thoughts or be attracted to her sexually regardless of whether she is a friends Sister, a friends wife, a colleague, even a good friend etc. The same is true vice-versa.

Prior to Brahmakumaris whenever such a sexual thought would cross my mind about women other than my wife, I would recognize that as a wrong thought or it was wrong of me to have such thoughts which would be followed by guilt, but then I would convince myself that I was good enough to have identified it as wrong and shouldn't encourage such thoughts as I was already married to a beautiful loving woman.

With Celibacy, if there are no thoughts of sex, then it would be so easy to not have to deal with sexual thoughts about other women.

After the courses, I started seeing people as souls, so slowly viewing them with body consciousness or having a sexual thought slowly started coming down. That was also (come to think of it now, sadly) the case with my wife as well. My mind was always racing and waiting for the next meditation session to establish the connection and have a conversation with the supreme being. I would go to sleep excited to wake up early to start my day with meditation. I was waking up between 4:30 and 5 AM without an alarm clock. I was totally loving it.

There was also mention that through this one could attain special powers, which included the possibility of doing astral travel via meditation and out of body experience although the recommended was never to try this. All this sounded ultra-fascinating to explore and experience.

Attachment to people/souls, death (leaving ones body):
---------------------------------------------------------------------

During this whole transformation process when experiencing the connection with the supreme, I did have periods where I did not feel a need for people to fulfill my emotional needs. I started having thoughts that I could probably live without my wife or even my 3-year-old son as now my closest confidant was the supreme, the indefinite source of point of light, my friend, Father, mother, and guide.

I would discuss such feelings with my center head and she would say that it was normal and that it was to love them with still an element of detachment as all the souls are only connected to the only Supreme Soul.

My older Brother who was 5 years older to me, passed away in a road accident when I was a teenager and it was an extremely traumatic experience for the whole family, now with this new-found knowledge of souls and karma, I believed there was now an explanation and acceptance to handling death and personal loss.

Before this whenever my mum complained of health issues or issues with my dad, I would sympathise and feel anger, share her pain etc, but with my new learnings, I learnt to accept it as her karma and not experience her painful and negative emotions, but to respond with positive energy and keep her in my meditation sessions. Basically, I was free from experiencing other peoples pain and their negative energy and emotions.

All of this made me feel like I was in control.

What I was asked for in return:
-------------------------------------

During the sessions, I was told that it the duty of the children to do good and spread the love and that we are in difficult times. My interpretation of that was to be kind and gentle and spread positive energy through meditation.

I was never asked or indirectly prompted for monetary returns or asked about my financial status or ownership of property details. There were only donation boxes for people to voluntarily donate during the free courses (Raja Yoga meditation and power of positive thinking) and during the free talks.

During one of the Raksha bandhan events, one of the senior dhadhi's whom I met for the first time, after drishti and tying the rakhi and after quick round of introductions and what I do etc, said she would very soon like to see me there in a position of giving out talks and doing more, it only felt nice to be trusted with what I saw as a huge responsibility, but it was never reinforced or pushed down by my center head.

Mention of brahmakumaris.info:
---------------------------------------
I did discover this forum during the time when I was doing my advanced courses and explored it a little bit at the time and did read about experiences of marriages breaking up and broached this topic and even mentioned the existence of a 'brahmakumaris.info' site with my center head. She did admit that many mistakes were done in the past, during the early phases and they had some really strict rules which were all due to incorrect interpretation in the past and they have now learned with time.

I was told that is why this is not for just individuals but for families and children and all were welcome and that in Madhubhan, people lived happily together.

End of the world and the start of a new cycle (Golden Age):
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

No timeline was mentioned to me although the fact that eventually, it will all end and they cycle has to restart, and when I eventually asked, reluctantly a 2 to 3-year timeline was mentioned. I was also told that they had had such predictions in the past and that they did not happen, and people were asked to store rations in preparation, which were all wrong interpretations of the muralis. And that they were still waiting on information/instruction from Baba and there were advanced parties who would arrive when it was needed.

Credibility:
-------------
Some of the talks were given out by seemingly well established authors, who had published books and there were practicing doctors and wealthy businessmen who were involved. Their presence and recognition by the UN all added credibility and made me see it as there must be somethign if such well-accomplished people were subscribing and practicing ?

So what next?
------------------
Thank you Pink Panther for the recommendations made below:
Move forward - try a routine that maybe is similar to the BKs but truer- more universal. If you like the morning routine, then get up and go out for a walk and do some (physical) Yoga, mindfully, or other exercise and then some non-religious meditation on simplicity, presence, nature - enjoy the sunrise! If you want ”spiritual" then try activities that combine physical and philosophical - eg Taoist Yoga, Buddhist martial arts, or maybe check the science of the microbiome and nutrition and its effects on mood, emotions, and well-being. Study comparative religion, mythologies, history, psychology. or just go dancing and do things together with your loving wife.

You are probably bang-on with the below:
Taking one’s focus from possible causes of stress and unsatisfactoriness and getting you to replace that focus on a particular technique along with adopting a new routine will, of course, bring benefit. It breaks the unsatisfactory pattern you felt.

I will explore further and also spend time reading more resources on here to educate myself.

And thank you ex-I for the reference to Criteria on ThoughtReform, it's an interesting text, I shall read.

Cheers,

OR.

PS: Having said all that, there is always a positive energy when I visit the center, the atmosphere, the lighting and perhaps the energy from all the group meditation sessions. I wish to recreate that environment at home. :-)
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

Some quick observations ...

But, firstly, please don't confuse "God" or "the Supreme" with the BKs' god spirit ... which is what the BKs want you to do. They do so by a subtle use of language using such terms as "The Father" or "The One" to confuse individals and guide them to adopting the BK god spirit as their god.
O_Relly wrote:... not to take the use of such terminology too seriously and it was just to differentiate people with impure and negative thoughts as shudras and the children of Brahma as Brahmins with pure and positive thoughts. The explanation was those who now remember the Father are all Brahmins

Define "pure" and "impure" thoughts.

OK, if we remove obviously extreme thoughts like anger or violence, I'd say "pure thoughts" to the BKs mean thoughts that conform to what they teach and do not question or challenge them and their authority in any way, and "impure thoughts" as those that do.

We, for example, are strictly speaking "the lowest of the low", lower than even the "shudras" because we have left and deny them their spiritual authority.

They are really not that far from the old fashioned Brahmanism ... all they want to be are the Brahmins. BKism is about social climbing.
keep reading it but ignore the parts that did not sit well with me and take the rest of the positives.

Sure, that is what they say ... don't believe, just suspend your disbelief, ignore what you don't like and take what you do (... but keep brainwashing yourself).

I am guessing your somewhere in the middle classes with a good job or profession? You're getting a special "softly-softly" treatment.

The BKs operate a "long con" with lots of preferential treatment for their potentially high value victims.

Poor villagers get an entirely different treatment.
I was never asked or indirectly prompted for monetary returns or asked about my financial status or ownership of property details....

You won't be ... yet. You are still on the outside being teated with kid gloves.

They are "fishing" you. You are still nibbling at their bait. They are high skilled at feeling when the fish takes the bait. They call it, "taking the pulse". This is what and how we were taught to do it. She is operating directly from their script.

Just wait until you are "in" ... then the pressure is to surrender everything, "man, tan and dhan" ... and they have taken everything many, many times.
all due to incorrect interpretation in the past and they have now learned with time.
.. which were all wrong interpretations of the muralis. And that they were still waiting on information/instruction from Baba

Total bullsh** ... but, yes, what they say. It is their "yukti", their method for answering such questions. It's also untrue ... but easy to blame followers for the failing of their god spirit and guru leader.

The Murli have been edited and re-written so many times now, and the Sisters repeating these lies only came into The Knowledge such a few years ago, and their environment is so control, that they literally don't know the truth of their own religion ... therefore they can repeat such lies with absolute sincerity.

I used to be in the Murli translation team. Each week we would have to translate the Murlis from Hindi to English and I remember all the failed predictions as clear as day. Others have researched using original copies of the Murlis from the 1970s ... that the BKWSU has removed or destroyed from their collection.

It is simple not true which raises the questions,
    a) why was their god spirit or guru leader so wrong (if they were perfect and true), and
    b) why does their god spirit and now deceased but allegedly entirely enlightened or perfected guru leader allow them to lie?
How can their god be "The Ocean of Truth" and wrong (untrue) or allow a culture of untruths?

He simply cannot.

He very may well be "powerful", he and they very well can indue "intoxicated" states of mind ... I absolutely accept that ... but he cannot be "true or the truth" if he is untrue.

Therefore who or what is a god spirit that is intoxicating, that encourages unquestioning devotion, that desired the death of 7 billion human beings, that will separate you from your wife and child claiming them to impure and devilish, and claims to be true and god when they are not?

You need to really engage with your rational mind about all their claims before you become addicted to the drug of their psychic high and are split between them and your family.

All I would like to ask you is ... to forget them *absolutely* until your child is 21 and independent. And, please, do not allow them to start using you as leverage to drag your wife and child into the cult.

We can tell you in advance how they are going to do this.

Please, give yourself entirely to your family, and your own community, before you give a sinple breath or rupee to the Brahma Kumari community.

Since when we were involved until now - by preaching imminent Destruction - the Brahma Kumari have become hugely wealthy and, yes it is true, consequently they are not so pressed to push people for money. Likewise, they have also duped their way into the United Nations and so on.

Do you think they have told the United Nations about their Nuclear War predictions? Ask yourself what was the UN set up to avoid?

All that to me is all highly manipulative and unethical, and evidential of an entirely kind of "spirit" to god and Godly ones.

"God" to me is not manipulative and unethical and would not tolerate such wiley social climbers.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

One additional suggestion ...
all due to incorrect interpretation in the past and they have now learned with time.
.. which were all wrong interpretations of the muralis. And that they were still waiting on information/instruction from Baba
ex-l wrote:Total bullsh** ... but, yes, what they say. It is their "yukti", their method for answering such questions. It's also untrue ... but easy to blame followers for the failing of their god spirit and guru leader.

The Murli have been edited and re-written so many times now, and the Sisters repeating these lies only came into The Knowledge such a few years ago, and their environment is so control, that they literally don't know the truth of their own religion ... therefore they can repeat such lies with absolute sincerity.

You are obviously an intelligent person. You have some education and appreciate the "proper" way to do things.

As an experiment ask the Sister to see the original, unedited versions of the Murlis. Tell her you have been told that they have been changing and re-writing the Murlis many times but that you want to see what the god, "The God" said in his original, unedited, "pure" form.

Let us know what she says and gauge for yourself her response.

If it is "God" do you not think his original words much be wonderful and precious? Why would they want to hide them? Why would they need to whitewash and re-write them?

Please note that as a new student, you will also be hearing "softened" edited down versions of the Murlis made to sound good.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post21 Sep 2017

O Reilly wrote: ....which were all wrong interpretations of the muralis.

Actually, the Murlis were very specific. They have since been edited and re-edited a number of times. As was much of the literature at the time. None of the posters or books before 1969 went to publication before approval by ”Brahma Baba”. There are some in the library here and other articles.

My first visit to Madhuban was in 1977. The major prediction back then was that the world would be destroyed by a nuclear war in 1976. The first Avyakt Murlis which I heard were in person, within metres of ”BapDada”, and were all about why the Destruction had not taken place. Part of that and class discussions were responding to the reaction of many BKs who had liquidated wealth and property and donated it to the organisation. Some wanted it back.

In one Murli, where the failure of predictions was said to be about ”testing faith”, I saw in Gulzar/ BapDada say that ”children’s” faith should be so strong that if Baba asked them to jump from a high window (I kid you not) a truly faithful child would. ”He” then proceeded to get a particular Indian BK to stand up and declare his faith and loyalty as so complete that he would follow such a demand. The ”Brother” (reluctantly IMO) said he would. Then BapDada laughed it all off saying that of course he would never ask such a thing but that was the level of a true BK. For some reason, in my new ”intoxication”, I just laughed it off like an idiot like all the others.
Offline

GuptaRati 6666

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2015

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post22 Sep 2017

Pink and Ex-I, I commend you for your extensive response to O.

Your responses are loaded with lots of practical useful advice on steps a person needs to take when recovering from damages due to BKism. The damages inflicted by BKism who practice its principles of spirituality are an index of the limitations of BKism and defects on its metaphysical constructs. Pink, I was in that session at Madhuban on January 18, 1977. My immediate reaction at the time consisted of deep feelings that the changes the BKs were predicting would not happen as they thought and preached.

Welcome to this site O. A plant-based diet will be excellent for you and your family. Even with bovine milk is not healthy for children and adults, or cats. Plant-based milk or goat milk is healthy to consume by humans. There are many non-New Age types organizations who provide excellent information on healthy ways of living, physically and spiritually.
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post22 Sep 2017

It's funny but I - or rather, the "BK within me" - is somewhat offended and upset by "neo-BKs" at the way they discount all our lives and efforts, our spiritual values ... the way they assert the reality of that time - was not "real", did not happen or brush it all off as "wrong interpretations". In other words, telling us that it was our fault whilst presenting their realisation of BKism as superior or better ... when really they know nothing of the past, the reality of BKism and how it has been built up over the decades.

What they say is simple just not true.

As Pink says, the Murlis and instructions were very specific and literal. There was no metaphorical element to them. We were deeply guarded against adding or allow any "manmat" (our own interpretations). If we had any doubts or questions regarding interpretations they were immediately clarified by the "Shrimat" of Senior Sisters sometimes in direct consultation with the god spirit (via trance mediumship).

Now they are telling newcomers there will be a gentle "Transformation", not "Destruction", until their brains are well and truly "cooked" and they are well and truly hooked on the high.

So, going back to O_Relly original post, the "Handling Stress and Emotional healing" programme was clearly just a marketing strategy targeting, as they do, vulnerable people or people at a vulnerable stressful time of their lives.

I'd like to underline, it is not real BKism. It was only a hook or "gateway drugs" to reall BKism ... a filter to attract likely victims and filter out undesirable or uncommitted elements.

Nor even are the public video made by Jayanti (of whom a number of us spent years with) and Shivani. They are also just "infotainment".

My question to you/them is ... do you realise yet what BKism and its beliefs really are, e.g. the immutable and identically repeating 5,000 Year Cycle of Time and its implications?

The direct inspiration of a Nuclear holocaust what will annihilate 7 billion human beings so that Baba's little angels can inherit an exuclusive Golden Age on earth?

Their fixation on high statuses and material wealth, both in this life and even moreso in the next?

Their exclusive and derisiveness towards all other religions that their god spirit says, literally, he has come to destroy. As literally as, "I come to destroy all other religions".

Their utter arrogance towards all other religions that they claim are mere partial reflections and inspired by theirs ... even those the other religions start 2,000 years ago and theirs only solidified in the 1950s.

Their layers and layers of clever deceptions and wordplay.

Reading O_Relly's posts, I am left to wonder who much they would have benefited similarly from simple mindfulness or yogic meditation, e.g. attention on breathing and thoughts, without any of the inductive "gateway" element of BKism?

A number of us used to be teachers and would have been by now teachers of much greater seniority that the teachers of today *if* we had stuck it out. Our peers are now zones leaders for the BK. We can, without any intention of sucking you in, tell you exactly where you will end up with BKism. What the next steps are.

For example, how the next step will involve moving you out of the bed with your wife, and gradually diminishing any physical contacts with her (touch, never mind sex). How they will tell you if she - being impure and devlish - stills demands sex from you, how you are to do it in a robotic, unfeeling manner while still remembering their god spirit. How, shortly, they will encourage you to stop eating her food (as she is not a BK and her vibrations are impure). How they will try in numerous way to gradually encult her and convert her to BKism ... but even then how you will be encouraged to live separate lives, e.g. sleeping in separate rooms, being celibate for life, having no attachment feelings for each other etc.

How you will be told "yuktis" (well practised BK tricks) by the Sisters on how to achieve this gradually. How you will gradually start to adopt a BK attitude of looking down upon her if she does not "realise their Baba is the one God", in the first place with pity and then total distate. How you will feel the embarrassment of her ignorant, impure state and your "bondage" to your children when you take them to BK events ... of which you will start to get invitations soon.

How the BK Seniors will usurp the position of authority over your parents, elders and original community.

It is a little bit different for male BKs from female BKs but many female BKs have been encourage to divorce non-BKs husbands ... but the words are the same.

How your family will become your "bondage", your "negative karmic account" to be paid off in sufference and with additional rememberance of the BK god instead of your love and your joy.

Let's take you from where you and work through the logical progressions and give you sufficient evidence of it that you can take back to the BKs and ask if this is true.

You are only seeing the mask at present. Please allow us the opportunity of showing you a few cracks in it, if not for your own sake, but for your wife and child or children's sake.

Remember, these are women who have been led to eshew their most core feminity - motherhood - in the basis of an absolute faith that the world is going to be destroyed in two to three years ... 40 years ago. And yet still continue to encourage other young women to do the same.

Ask yourself what the psychology of that is.
Offline

O_Relly

  • Posts: 4
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2015

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post22 Sep 2017

I don't believe I was getting any special treatment, it appeared everyone in the courses was getting the same treatment. Also right from the start, we were encouraged not to believe or accept as is and to question and experience for ourselves.

With a rational reasoning mind, I was always questioning (which is primarily why the concept of God, religion, prayer & total submission etc) never worked for me even before discovering meditation and BK, but certain life experiences made me realise/willing to explore that there was certainly something greater, a supreme power.

It was then I was willing to explore spirituality.

The encouragement to question and experience for myself from the start was what gave me the confidence to continue further which was different from all other religion.

However, right from day 1 the concept of Destruction and only a certain number of BKs going to the Golden Age, never worked for me and I kept asking can I continue to go further without subscribing to all of that, and just with The Knowledge of meditation and being aware and choosing to react positively in any situation.

In fact, the satvik way of eating, no onions or garlic is not something that is new and is a way of eating that is practised by many in India.

The celibacy although seemed extreme was something that got me curious as to why saadhus or godmen (let alone BKs) were actually practising it? Therefore there must be something to it?

I am clear that celibacy or my diet (unless for better health) or subscribing to the concept of Destruction in NOT for me. I may still continue to participate in talks and special meditation events organised by the BK centre.

Ex-I, Pink Panther, I do gather, you were all in senior and teaching positions within the BK. Can I ask what was the point of realisation for yourselves and coming out? You probably have written about this somewhere, but can you point me at a reference for me to read, please?

So what is your alternative after getting out of BK ? Do you just follow a non-spiritual mindfulness/meditation/Yoga or an alternate spiritual path? Also about food and eating habits, did you stick to vegetarian way of eating or go back to previous ways of eating?

I am always willing to learn through discussion/debate/experiences of others. Appreciate your time and contribution to this post.

Cheers,
OR
Offline
User avatar

ex-l

ex-BKWSU

  • Posts: 9587
  • Joined: 07 Apr 2006

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post22 Sep 2017

Short answer ...

I was vegetarian before BKism, I became vegan during BKism (although the leaders were against it), I remained vegan. Am not a heavy user of the "five pungent vegetables", as the Buddhist call them, but not hung up about them, e.g. tend not to use them at home but don't avoid them if out. Likewise, I don't drink but had stopped out of my own personal choice before BKism. Never started again.

What finished BKism for me was when I saw through the facade of the highest leaders and saw how stupid (unenlightened), manipulative and money/status obsessed they really were. I could not equate such values with true spirituality.

In truth, they were just fairly vulgar and uneducated social climbers. I am talking about their great "goddesses" like Dadi Janki. I would not even describe them as "petite bourgeoisie". The idea of them believing themselves to be Brahmin was a joke.

Looking back I cannot even work out how or why I stuck it out ... how or why on earth I wanted to be a "Brahmin" as if it was a good thing. It's like I was in a drug like state, playing out at being some imagination I had of "being spiritual" and wanting to be superior, which BKism confirms and tells its adherents they are. I was living a fantasy, an illusion.

But I did not have a wife and family, so matters are far more serious for you. I've seen how much damage BKism does to families and especially children when one partner is sucked in and the other is not. I beg you not to fall for the "sirens' song" for their sake.

You cannot do BKism half and half. The deeper you get into it, the more you will understand why. The more it will eat away at you because of the "impurity", "failure", second class nature of being a householder. The more you will find are put down and led to look down at non-BK family members. The attitudes creep into like cancer and have led to many parents neglecting their children, turning children against parents, and partners against partners.

There are plenty of other sources of "spiritual" thought and inspiration ... but focusing on real life issues is pretty interesting and far more worthwhile too. Real world satisfactions are better than BK fantasy ones. Harder but more worthwhile.

Some of the Sister who you are supposed to surrender to are really, really stupid too. I played at being the chela but I ended up just wasting decade of my life and setting back my life and career. I missed out on many normal social experiences and having a family.

And, like many BKs, I am going to have a very difficult old age because of it.

We were all conned to believe the End of the World was going to come and save us from the realities of it. And that was in 1976 or 1986.
Offline
User avatar

Pink Panther

  • Posts: 1413
  • Joined: 14 Feb 2013

Re: My induction, current status and what next?

Post23 Sep 2017

A brief answer to your question O’really

I became a BK as an idealistic adolescent caught up in the ”glamour” of the then counterculture where all things from India were just entering the Western sphere and were ‘cool”. I was half-vegetarian beforehand, i.e did not call myself anything but had quite a few days a week where I didn’t eat meat, so becoming vegetarian was easy. I too didn’t find out about celibacy through any formal information but it came up in passing. This is one their yuktis. When I did find out, well, I wasn’t in any relationship anyway so that was no big deal. Over the next years I have been a lacto-vegetarian in the BK ”satwic” mode, a vegan, a macrobiotic. I am back to lacto-vegetarian but with a kind of macrobiotic sensibility (there’s macrobiotic principles at play in all traditional diets - if only macrobiotic fanatics would see beyond their dogma!). I have no qualms with meat eaters or vegans or whatever. Each person has their own right to experience, work through, decide and balance their ethics, health needs, beliefs when it comes to food. The main sickness is overconsumption - which affects all ”dietary types” and rife among "sattwic diet" BKs.

I was quite well read for my young age, both fiction and non-fiction - history, philosophy, psychology etc - and continued to read a little as a BK - breaking one of their ”Pillars” of Shrimat. I developed that great self-trickery BKs practice, interpreting whatever you come across as either a validation of "Gyan”, or see it as a poor ”memorial of it, or if something, e.g. scientific knowledge, contradicted Gyan, it must be (according to BK faith) premised on some falsehood, there is some yet to be discovered way to disprove it , therefore it can be ignored.

I used to meditate a little before BKs, self-taught based on some Buddhist reading I had done, and had some amazing experiences, then had more, similar, meditation experiences when I took the BK course. I, foolishly, saw my pre-BK experiences as a kind of ”premonition” validating BK teachings.

Here’s something I haven’t shared before. I went to London and lived there for a number of years where I became one of the main group and regarded as one of the better teachers. I lived across the road from the main centre. In the 2nd year there, by which time I was fully involved, i.e. I now fully considered myself a BK (whereas before I was for a long time ”still checking it out”), I had a dream - which recurred a few times - that disturbed me.

The main scene in the dream is a close-up of my arm and I have a strap around it, my veins are popping and I am injecting heroin.

At this stage, I had no knowledge of dream analysis and, feeling disturbed, I had a private meeting with Jayanti to ask about it - believing these Seniors were the fonts of all wisdom. She simply said to ignore it and do more Yoga. That was actually the main thing you are told whenever you take anything to them for advice or discussion, which I did a lot, for a while.

Years later, it was partly participating in workshops and courses learning about dream interpretation that I realised what that 'heroin dream' meant. It was my unconscious self telling me I was hooked, that I had lost my objectivity and no longer able to be "at arm’s length ...”. (The word ”religion” comes from the latin - ”to tie, to bind”).

I returned to Australia and never felt as comfortable as a BK. I became a "fringe BK” for a long time. I eventually had a yearning for broader & deeper understanding. That's when I got involved in studying dreams and (mostly) Jungian psychology (to the point where I later took over from the teacher and did some private analysis for others myself). That was instrumental in understanding myself and my journey. That is part of what I said in another post about ”un-finding yourself” - learning to look at yourself and your life from beyond your own current ego construct, which is basically what dreams are telling us.

It made me realise what I really wanted was home, family, roots, and to enjoy the ordinary (I now live only two kilometres from where I grew up, married with a beautiful daughter at university). I have always done physical forms of Yoga (hatha, Iyengar etc) and started doing some Japanese Yoga (I returned to macrobiotic diet at this time). I joined a philosophy discussion group via the Meetup.com web site which was really beneficial for clarifying my thinking and for dealing with people who were very different in their ways of thinking. (As one attendee said one night when discussion got heated ”Hey, if we all agreed all the time, we’d just be a cult!).

Nine years ago I took up Shaolin martial arts which is an expression of esoteric Chan Buddhist teachings that is for mind and body integration (contradicting the Vedantic separation and duality that BKism is a minor sect of).

Basically, I have come full circle, taking up again the interests I had before rudely interrupting myself by joining the BKs - music, psychology, philosophy, Buddhism, Yoga and visual arts.

I would suggest to anyone looking to disabuse themselves of the BK influences to look at what your interests were before joing the BKs, see the BKs as a fork in the road that went to the wrong place, go back and take the other fork - take up those intentions you had back then and develop them. They may be completely different or kind of similar. But you need to be able to reach a point where you can see the BK stuff and the non-BK stuff as they are, for what they are, without ”value judgement” - and see BKs as a stage you went through and have "graduated" from. No need to go back to your old school, you’ve learnt what it had to offer you.

As for non-BK meditations, I always find it better to do some stretches, Yoga whatever, before sitting. The seated meditation is only one part and it is about connecting to here and now, to what is present both internally and externally, body & mind fully connecting, not disconnecting...
"Practitioners are distressed by wandering thoughts. They think it is difficult to tame them. Don't be afraid of wandering thoughts. Do not waste your energy trying to repress them. All you have to do is recognize them. Do not attach to wandering thoughts, do not follow them, and do not try to get rid of them. As long as you don't string thoughts together, wandering thoughts will depart by themselves.”

- Master Xuyun (1839-1959) a.k.a. Empty Cloud. (Note the lifespan)


That is the brief summary.
Next

Return to Newcomers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests