BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

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ex-l

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BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post09 Oct 2017

The centre coordinator in Canada left the BKs in 2017 after 34 happy years. He has made a website called http://sublime.one analyzing The Knowledge and describing some of his experiences.

Interestingly, from that website, he confirms what we discovered independently and adds some insight to it. I specifically refer to how Lekhraj Kirpalani "would not give food to [his adherents] if they were speaking about the past". The ''small mistake" when Lekhraj Kirpalani thought and declared that he was God Brahma. The author mentions how Lekhraj Kirpalani told his adherents "to erase all traces of that period".

Now bear in mind that this was during the "Beggary Period" when the BKs were living in Mount Abu with very little funds and the Sisters had no skills nor outside income of their own to either buy their own food or escape.

To deny food is not a small coercion.
sublime.one wrote:God Brahma

One day, with the French group, we had a small private class in Pandav Bhavan with Dada Anand Kishore, an old nice Brother, a companion of Brahma Baba for many years. I sat down in front of him and I was thinking : "I would like to hear stories of Brahma Baba's life." Dada then asked us "What do you like me to talk about?" He looked at me and continued : "Do you like to hear stories about Brahma Baba?". Then, laughing: "Do you know that for many years, Brahma Baba was thinking that he was God? ''. Our ears and eyes were wide open.

He explained then that for a long time, Brahma Baba thought and declared that he was God Brahma. Dada gave us many details, such as how he asked the people around him to erase all traces of that period when he realized that there was a ''small mistake''. He then forbade everybody to speak about it. "Past is past!". Dadi Janki was recently telling in a class that Brahma Baba would not give food to the children if they were speaking about the past. The details of that period became one of the secrets of the BKs.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post10 Oct 2017

Ex-I,

Thank you for showing us the website of the ex-BK. The recovery and rehabilitation from BKism, on a physical and spiritual level may last a decade and more.

The ex-BK did mention that one way he remained happy was only accepting those parts of BKism that seemed true.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post10 Oct 2017

The recovery and rehabilitation from BKism, on a physical and spiritual level may last a decade and more.

It's interesting to see what we base our decisions for what we will accept and what we won’t accept. To ask ourselves the question, "why did I not evaluate things then the way I do now?"

I don't think it is merely the amount (or lack) of knowledge or ”experience” we have at the time, i.e. it's not a matter of a quantitative accumulation of these. I think its something qualitative - it's a choice based on what we desire at the time. We then adjust our touchstone* to serve our desire, and those are our "truths" for that period of time.

The author of this web site is happy to say that he only accepted parts that "seemed" true, i.e. he picked and chose what suited his desire at the time. Then spent his years selling the whole package to others. This is at the very least intellectual hypocrisy, a severe lack of integrity.

As I read it, GuptaRati, I agree he definitely still has a very long way to go to find that honest touchstone within that won't allow one to speak BS to oneself, especially not those equivocations he has spent hours composing to keep up ”spiritual appearances” for his ego’s sake. I bet his dreams are full of trickster characters at the moment.

* a standard by which something is judged or recognized
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ex-l

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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post10 Oct 2017

Pink Panther wrote:The author of this web site is happy to say that he only accepted parts that "seemed" true, i.e. he picked and chose what suited his desire at the time. Then spent his years selling the whole package to others. This is at the very least intellectual hypocrisy, a severe lack of integrity.

Those seem to be quite harsh criticisms.

It is, of course, a commonplace BKism to tell newcomers to just "accepted parts that seem true and ignore the rest" during the indoctrination process. "You do not need to believe" we would them students, "just suspend your disbelief for a moment". It's a subtle seduction, getting individuals to suspect their critical facilities and seduce them instead with "feelings".

I wonder how he would had replied to the question when asked as a BK, "What is you faith in The Knowledge?" I am guessing he, like most of us, would have asserted 100% at the time. You remember the 'articles of faith' questionaires we used to have to fill in to go to Madhuban, or even a main centre?

We spent a lot of our time and energy telling ourselves we believed when, I suspect, in our core we did not. Conforming to how we were expected to think rather than actually felt and thought.

Were we all "hypocrites without integrity", or something else? Young, naive, confused, needy and wanting acceptance? For me, unless the intention to deceive was there, or our conduct contradicted what we were telling others to do, it was something else. "Brainwashed, irresponsible idiots", I'd be fine with that but then I never rose the higher echelons of centre or zone in charges.

Perhaps it takes a different mind to do so ... yes especially if they do so while not believing in it themselves.

But then, I suspect most of the functioneries of most religions fall into the same category where it provides physical or financial security. I suppose with BKism, it's more about mental and emotional security ... because 99.99% of us paid to be there.

Sure, I'd accept the egotistical element of your equation. That we chose a religion that made us feel like we were the most superior human beings, the very angels of god, by doing nothing but "serving via the mind" ... rather than a religion that took us into the slums of India to serve the downtrodden ... does suggest to me that we were all a like narcissistic.

Or, perhaps, that we started out with sincere intention and then were gradually way led ... infected by Lekhraj Kirpalani's and Kirpalani Klan's caste-linfused narcissism.

He has another site, http://medit.info that suggests he has gone independent, like Robert Shubow, and are still teaching BK Raja Yoga meditation but outside of the BKWSU.

I know how the BKs would see them, "infected by Brother's Maya" ... "mixing in their own manmat" etc ... "having a little 'holiday' but must to come back before The End" ... "losing his status" ... politely humour and tolerated in person, but all the usual put downs.

My only concern would be that although they have eshewed the cult and come to their own conclusions about the reality of what is going on inside it, they are still psychically serving the same god, just without all the external forms.

But, everyone has some virtue and something to offer in the greater understanding of things. I'd rather congratulate them on taking their first steps to leave, and invite them to join us and share their insights in the first place.

As they themselves say, it takes years to unpick "psychic cords" and elements of BKism thinking from our of your being. And it appears they were in BKism for most of their adult life. Do you remember any young French/French Canadians coming through London?
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post10 Oct 2017

Yes, it is a harsh criticism and I make it specifically - at myself first, because as I read his site and the way he rationalised his ”journey”, I could hear echoes of my own mind’s workings from those times and why for me the more important thing about what I wrote is recognising, "it's a choice based on what we desire at the time”.

Most people pretend what they are doing is completely rational, and that at every stage of their lives are completely rational i.e. I may have been irrational in the past but i am rational now. To me, the first part of "awakening” is accepting the possibility we are asleep - a paradox indeed. But the harshness is because this person says categorically [paraphrasing] ”this is not God, I knew it was not God, I knew the Gyan etc was full of holes, but I went along with it, taught it and sold it to others anyway”.

We have a politician here, a former PM who has swung between climate change acceptance and calling for action for things like carbon taxes, then won an election campaigning against a carbon tax saying, literally, ”climate change is crap”, yesterday saying the science is not conclusive whether it's happening or not but if it is, it's probably a good thing because old people won’t die from hypothermia (!). He is a blatant opportunist aiming to regain his party’s leadership and has as long as I have observed him said whatever the audience in front of him wants to hear, rather than needs to hear, i.e. to serve his own interests, even ahead of his party’s, his nation’s, his planet’s. Our erstwhile BK ”Brother” falls into this same category. I don’t think I did.

I can honestly say that whilst I was a BK, I struggled a lot with reconciling the Gyan. I did not just ignore what did not make sense to me or just say - ”this part is wrong I will go along with the parts I agree with". I actually accepted the authority of the author/authors of Gyan and did my best (to the annoyance of many) to make it all consistent, not just through logic but through mystical and philosophical approaches that allowed for ”the limitations of language” etc.

It was at the point when I realised that this could not be what it said it was, that this was not God or god’s work, that I made my way (albeit slowly - de-conditioning takes time) out of the BKs. And, yes, this website and your occasional harsh criticisms ex-l (not all valid mind you!) made me face some harsh realities about my position.

I don’t deny your contention that most of us were fooled and taken advantage of by the many tactics employed within the BK culture. But I have more respect and compassion for people like the BK I am most in contact with, who is very like many simple worker-bee BKs, who says ”I don’t care if it's true or not, whether it’s God or not, I need this, this keeps me from falling apart” than I do for all the intellectualisation this dude goes on about, and what people like you and I engaged in as ”too clever for own good” BKs in our time.

(”God” praises the simple-minded buddhus for a reason, exploitative bastard that he is!).
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post11 Oct 2017

34 years is a long time to be a BK. We cannot expect the influences of BKism, or the needs or the tendencies that drew the individual to BKism, to evaporate overnight. Or even for them to take and continue their spiritual journey even further.

I think the guy deserves a rest and a holiday first! At least get him in the door first ...

Imagine ... experiencing guilt-free, lying in late on a Sunday morning again; speaking to whoever he likes and not have to sell or manipulate them into the cult; eating out in cafes and restaurants; and, dare I suggest, drinking his first glass of wine or having some roasted garlic dressing (well, he is French).

I remember after I had left I spoke respectfully or defensively of the BKs, even continued to promote them to others even though I did not believe in it all ... now that was crazy. I was definitely still being a BK, on the overun, even though consciously I had left, and under the influence of the "What if ...?" hook, felt as if I had to for the sakes of not denying them their 'potential' spiritual inheritance.

"What if it really is all true ... what is Destruction really does happen?" etc. I was not fully in control of myself, still carrying the mask, if not wearing it all the time. So easy to switch into.

But that was back in 1986 and so much water has passed under the bridge, and so much else has come up to the surface since then. It's an entirely different equation for questioning BKs now.

Before the internet, there was basically nothing to help us. Now ... to paraphrase the BKism,
    "The last can leave fast"!
May be that is what "Last go fast" really meant?

Something I have noticed with many exiting BKs is an enjoyment in contemplating or postulating about spiritual or cosmic stuff that, ultimately, is neither provable nor unprovable and has little practical application in the real world. In leaving the BK, they are freed again to do so even wider than they were allowed within BKism and so, I suspect, that in the short term, they might run to enjoy them freedom.

Now, I cannot say whether there is any truth in any of it, or not, as it is not within my experience. By primary interests in their experiences, and my concerns for them, would be in real world stuff, facing real world things, in the here and now. 34 years in another world is a long time.

I'd be interested to read of how the BKs have responded to their leaving and of more of their experiences within the BKs.

I tend to see a willingness to stop doing PR and speak out about some of the negative sides, and negative individuals, a good sign that the individual is fully out from under the BK influence.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post11 Oct 2017

I picked up on something else.

In one place they discuss the typical "Fear Control Mechanism" the BKs use to keep people in, ie the line about how "if you leave something bad will happen to you and you will have to come back" etc.

One of the examples he gave was Marc Fourcade "whose son and ex-wife committed suicide" ... in some way, BKs were correlating their deaths to his leaving or conduct, as example perhaps ?

BK Marc Fourcade we've come across before. He was one of the corporate consulting/Self Management Leadership inner circle within Western BKs, who also sort of left and hook up with another ex- or "demi-BK" Sister. I understand at some point they were in business but also a relationship but enjoyed an open door relationship with the BKs.

Now the truth about like is, "something bad" happen to everyone at some point. It's the nature of life and largely beyond our control. What I feel is immoral is the BKs' correlation between those random experiences and the leaving of BKs.

It's like me saying to you ... "If you leave the BKs it will rain on you and THAT'S proof" then implanting the thought for you to run back at that point. In my own case, I got a letter from the center-in-charge, the first morning I missed morning class, telling me that I would "cry tears of blood and grind my teeth with the agony of regret" (literally, "like the sound of mustard seeds being ground" is the quote).

I do not know when Foucades other wife committed suicide, nor if there was a connection with his leaving to join the BKs or his leaving "BK pukka" to hook up with a very attractive, gifted and "angelic" ex-ish BK Sister, but I do remember that Brian Bacon, the progenitor of the Self Management Leadership/Corporate Consulting BKs - once self-proclaimed as the most influential BK outside of the Sindi inner circle - also left a "worldly" wife behind to join the BKs (and nothing more was heard of her) ... and then hooked up with a very attractive, gifted and angelic BK Sister.

Of course, we're all 'Fortune 500' now, so "Past is Passed" Baba!
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post12 Oct 2017

Pink, you are correct about my thinking or ideas on the time required to get back to basics or spiritual ground zero. Then from ground zero seeking the absolute truths from within us and outside of us. There is no doubt that we all have missions in our lives and our passions for specific pursuits enable us to discover our missions in life. When we look into ourselves after the BK experience and understand that within us there is beauty and a vast resource talents to manifest, there will be no sanskars or thoughts of self-hate and desires to take our own lives.

Ex-I, surely we are all Fortune 500 and capable of creating and sustaining fortune 500 companies? I was once a visiting scientist at one of the more greener and eco-friendly fortune 500 companies and the corporation allowed me to deliver lectures on my research on ecological health. Gyan did influence my ethos and philosophy in science and medicine. However, there was a parting of the waves with respect to BKism, science, and my spiritual way of living.
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post12 Oct 2017

One of the examples he gave was Marc Fourcade "whose son and ex-wife committed suicide"

What?! It's decades ago now but I met Marc's son more than once. I felt such a shock reading that. I think his name was Luke, but I may be wrong.

So many kids of BKs have been damaged by their parents absenting themselves emotionally, if not physically. Is this the greatest crime of cults like BKs? The sad irony is that those parents who do not give up their ”attachments” and "karmic accounts” are treated as lesser by BKs who prefer to praise and elevate those who dump their families, leaving them in disarray and confusion while they go off to make the whole universe a better place.
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post12 Oct 2017

It is concerning. Like discovering Ranjana Patel and then her Brother both committed suicide. What are the chances of a mother and a son both having valid reasons to commit suicide without there being a connection?

I think one sad assumption we can make is that the Father was not there for them to speak to ... and by "there" I mean present as a normal human being, not a BK Gyan spouting robot, e.g. "You have a problem? Do more Yoga fixes it". The typical exploitation of any crisis of vulnerability as a lever to hook them into a BKism, they themselves have since left.

Cases such as this are important to study closely ... of how the BK god spirit works ... of the effects he has on real families ... on the full cost of his creation of his "family".

As with other "children of addicts", e.g. alcoholics, it's often said they are damaged by the parent figure being emotional unavailable or absent and prioritising their addiction over the interests - and responsibilities of the parent.

BK PR man Neville Hodgkinson has sort of questioned or admitted this publicly more recently, with regards to the effects of BKism onto his relationship with his sons. What was interesting about that case, also a sad one although not tragic, was how the older and the younger son dealt with it and were effected by it differently. Obviously, there is a huge canon of child psychology for us to fall back on the examination of it.

Was he a child when you met him? When Marc became a BK and, pressumably, parted from his wife?

If there is a proven connection, and that individual then goes not just promoting BKism but selling it in a dilute form, and is feted by the BK leaders and accepts access to their centres etc ... there you have a whole other level of ethical dilemmas.
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post12 Oct 2017

Was he a child when you met him? When Marc became a BK and, pressumably, parted from his wife?
Yes. Marc Foucade was new to BKs, his son was probably just entering puberty. I would have had contact with him over a period of about 4-5 years. Marc was just starting his spiritual ”consultancy” business when I last saw him. That’s all over 3 decades ago now. How many breaths/lifetimes is that?
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post14 Oct 2017

He was not National Coordinator but running a small centre.

I know him well and was witness to his exiting process. If you would you might have a more nuanced opinion of him.

I think he deserves congratulations.
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post14 Oct 2017

bkti-pit wrote:He was not National Coordinator but running a small centre.

Now corrected.

Sorry, I misread where he wrote ...
I have been involved in several centers in Canada. Recently, I was responsible of a small center for about 20 years in Gatineau, near Ottawa, capital of Canada. I was the coordinator for the national capital region.

I've just learned "National Capital Region" (French: Région de la capitale nationale), is the official title for the region of Ottawa and Gatineau cities.

I hope I have not been harsh, I certainly did not mean to and am in full support and admiration of him to give up such a personal investmeant.

When I write "egotistical" (of all of us, including myself especially), I do not mean it as a cheap insult. I mean in a BK or psychoanalytical way (id, ego and super-ego etc)*. How we all got wrapped up and caught by the ultimately false identity BKism gives us despite its claimed aim of leading us to "egolessness" (a state which now I might just define as "completely open psychically" and open to unlimited organisational exploitation; and very unhealthy).

I did not mean that they are an "egotist".
The ego develops in order to mediate between the unrealistic id and the external real world. It is the decision making component of personality. Ideally the ego works by reason, whereas the id is chaotic and totally unreasonable.

The ego operates according to the reality principle, working out realistic ways of satisfying the id’s demands, often compromising or postponing satisfaction to avoid negative consequences of society. The ego considers social realities and norms, etiquette and rules in deciding how to behave.
The ego is the surface of the personality, the part you usually show the world. It seeks to turn the id’s drive to behaviour which brings benefits in the long term rather than grief. Conscious awareness resides in the ego, although not all of the operations of the ego are conscious.

The ego separates out what is real. It helps us to organise our thoughts and make sense of them and the world around us. Its task is to find a balance between primitive drives and reality while satisfying the id and super-ego. "Thus the ego, driven by the id, confined by the super-ego, repulsed by reality, struggles ... and readily 'breaks out in anxiety

The ego, in our cases, struggling with the further dimensions of fitting into the real world and BK society and its unread world view.

"Being humble" is one thing ... in this world, I rather see it only as one specific successful strategy for social survival, mainly for the suppressed individuals, e.g. lower classes, women etc ... being without an ego is like being a like a ship in a storm without a rudder.

Something else I find interesting about what he writes is where he describes Lekhraj Kirpalani as (from memory) an "automatic-medium", and points to his writing of the Murlis as being mediumistic. "Automatic writing" or psychography as it is called.

That, for me, and other researchers, is very possible. For latest scientific research, see also, here.

I know Pink is not keen on psychic/spiritualist stuff, we have clashed in the past about it, perhaps the strength of his reaction is against that? I think the author addresses the issue Pink raises and contradicts it, albeit Pink might well ask why it took 30 odd years to do so. It's a question we all have to ask, why did it take such a long time for us to see through and escape their matrix?

I find myself largely inline with their sentiments, although I would not go as far as some of the more fringe elements of their interests.
sublime.one wrote:But it is very difficult for me to play my part as a Dada knowing that half The Knowledge is false. I would have to pretend and lie constantly. Lying is not my forte. As I am basically honest, it is not possible.

So I start a new life.
The natural question that follows is: "Why exposes it publicly rather than disappear discreetly like many BKs do?"

First, because of the pervasive notion about Destruction in The Knowledge. I believe that the promotion of destruction especially among spiritual and religious people is very dangerous. It could actually provoke it. I have too much love for human beings and our dear mother earth to say nothing. I believe that this notion is Maya-vellian ...

Secondly, to help souls to free themselves from a paralyzing and unnecessarily complicated religious system. This system imprisons souls in beliefs and behaviors that lead to passivity, closure to other groups and closure to information. This system drains and channels the energy, the time, the thoughts, the specialties, the money of millions of souls of goodwill towards a demonic goal : the destruction of humanity.

The reactions I had until now from the BKs are very positive. I dare say aloud what many people think privately. On the other hand, I do not think the hierarchy will appreciate my honesty very much. In the event that it becomes too aggressive, I keep in reserve an additional page with a lot of ''interesting'' stories and experiences accumulated during my 34 years of BK life. ;-)

I do not pretend to hold the truth. I thought I had the truth. I was made to believe that. Now I am much more cautious: I simply share thoughts that may change tomorrow. These are ideas, beliefs, experiences. I am not trying to convince anybody but simply to show some new ways of looking and thinking.
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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post14 Oct 2017

ex-l wrote:Pink might well ask why it took 30 odd years to do so.

Yes indeed, that was my point. My response was, when it no longer serves us. It served him for 30 years.

Or as I have said elsewhere, "when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving, we leave". The ego (which you referred to, ex-l), to do its job, requires continuity, a reference to the past. Am I who I was yesterday? Which part of me yesterday do I like to resuscitate today?

The nature of ego dynamics means ego is resistant to change, especially in its opinion of itself and its values. A healthy, mature, secure ego accepts that it is necessary to keep adapting, even seeks to adapt through learning. An unhealthy, immature, insecure ego goes out of its way to insist on its own ”right-ness” to the point of not only lying to others but to oneself, contradicting oneself, justifying today’s ego with all kinds of selective memories, biases, choices.

He says...
sublime.one : ... knowing that half The Knowledge is false. I would have to pretend and lie constantly. Lying is not my forte. As I am basically honest, it is not possible.

So, when did this honesty appear?

How long did he realise half of The Knowledge was false? (His article says almost from his first contact)

Which half of The Knowledge is false?

And if so, how can he be sure of any of it?

My harshness was intended as a verbal bucket of cold water to make the reader wake up. The analytical razor that sublime.one has supposedly discerned with, to realise that "half of The Knowledge is false” is really not analytical, nor that sharp. He has merely applied it selectively, and belatedly, to those parts of it all which are most obviously unpleasant to him and gives the author a rationale upon which to justify his leaving. The ego still enjoys the sugar of the rest and therefore considers (by definition) that other half to be true.

I am not condemning him for that, I am only asking that it be recognised. Because I did that myself. I think we all do that. It's why it takes a long time for catharsis, for a full BK deprogramming or, as we’d say these days, a full uninstall and reboot.

I am encouraging him and any reader to ask, "Where is my thorough examination of the whole thing? Am I applying the same level of acute critiquing to all aspects or avoiding examining the parts I don't want to let go of just yet?".

Yes, it is ”very possible” that Lekhraj was doing mediumistic ”automatic writing”. If so, it is just as possible that he was possessed by another, or that he was insane, or that he was manipulated by Nazis hiding on the dark side of the moon, or that Loki the Norse trickster god is using him in his cosmic battles, or he was a sincere fool who mistook his unconscious inner voice as some kind of external deity.

If anything is possible, it is, well, possible, until it is shown to be not possible.

Isn’t that the basis of the scientific method, that anything is ‘possible' until it is disproven?

I believe there are two all-powerful gods - Probability and Necessity. When they are in agreement, that's what eventuates. ”Knowledge” as a god is still on probation, i.e. knowledge is always provisional based on the filters it passes through.

All the spiritual New Age and indo-cultic cryptic jargon is another ego mask. The way I see it, the difference between someone who has woken up and someone who has not is their attitude to the mask (or masks) and the ease with which that mask is removed. The best way to remove the mask is to laugh at it (ourselves) but that is best done by challenging it (ourselves) with balloon pricking, earth-wiring basic realities. Will it pay the rent next week? Will this practically help me or others, or is it a feelgood cop-out that hinders real action, that stifles Life with a capital ”L”?

Nuff said, it's late.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Centre Co-ordinator Leaves after 34 years

Post14 Oct 2017

So, to summarise, "he's probably a really nice guy ... who has taken a very brave, big, first step ... so don't give him a kicking until he is in the door".

Especially as I'd like to hear more of his story.
Pink Panther wrote:Yes, it is ”very possible” that Lekhraj was doing mediumistic ”automatic writing”. If so, it is just as possible that he was possessed by another, or that he was insane, or that he was manipulated by Nazis hiding on the dark side of the moon

No, the Dark Side of the Moon - an exploration of conflict, greed, the passage of time, and mental illness - was Roger Waters channeling Syd Barrett. Now available in a 5.1 remastered surround sound edition.

I disagree on "just a possible", there are no Nazis hiding on the dark side of the moon (nor inside a hollow Earth). That's a bad level argument ... reductio ad absurdum.

As a related aside, in the paper I linked to, 'Investigating the fit and accuracy of alleged mediumistic writing: a case study of Chico Xavier's letters' researchers found 99 items of verifiable information conveyed in 13 letters; 98% of which were rated as "Clear and Precise Fit" and no item being rated as "no Fit." They concluded that ordinary explanations for accuracy of the information (i.e., fraud, chance, information leakage, and cold reading) were only remotely plausible.

"These results seem to provide empirical support for non-reductionist theories of consciousness."
The study of mediumship is important because if mediumistic abilities were real, they would provide empirical support for non-reductionist theories of the mind, thus having major implications to our understanding of the mind-brain relationship. This study investigated the alleged mediumship of Chico Xavier, a very prolific and influential "medium" in Brazil.

I think that's a better batting average than 'Crazy Diamond' Lekhraj Kirpalani had.

I'd say he could have been doing mediumistic ”automatic writing” AND was a sincere fool who mistook his unconscious inner voice as some kind of external deity.

To be honest, given what we know now, I am not so sure Lekhraj Kirpalani was the or a conscious medium at all. 'Sublime.one' pitches him as a "half-medium". Perhaps he "over-shadowed", a medium for the energy of what they call Shiva now as many BKs are.

We know for sure he was not in the early days. We know the primary medium/s left the cult, e.g. the large undocumented exit of the "Golden Circle". We know they struggled and had to come up with an plausible answer for why he did not do the whole voice and personality changing act the other mediums did. I wonder if he just stood in for the lack of any mediumship action, and passed off his stream of consciousness rabblings as channeled messages?

There's no real documentation or discuss of the switch of mediumship, and how and when it happened, and increasingly many tend to agree with Sublime.one that Gulzar is just faking it now.

A old non-BK Mount Abu resident said Lekhraj Kirpalani had the habit of drifting off in company, right in the middle of conversations. The BKs present that as divinity or "being pulled powerfully into silence". How much more likely is it, that it was just some kind of mental illness?

I am sorry to be so blunt, but Lekhraj Kirpalani really did not have that many new thoughts or novel revelations - decades worth of Murlis are damned repetitive - and the revelations he did have were either false, or interpreted falsely. There have been too much personality changes from the early days of Piyu, to "Bap" Lekhraj Kirpalani, and then to Gulzar for it to be a same spirit. Sublime.one theory is that there are three primary spirits involved that the BKs label '(Subtle) Brahma', Vishnu and Shankar (no relationship to the eponymous Hindu deities). He postulates that '(Subtle) Brahma' could not have been Lekhraj Kirpalani, as Lekhraj Kirpalani had to use a second medium to "go up" and ask him for advice and guidance. Originally, they were three souls, then became "subtle deities" ... whatever that means ... and are now moving to become metaphorical symbols in Western BKism.
Pink Panther wrote:Or as I have said elsewhere, "when the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving, we leave".

Or when the probabilities that staying offers look considerably worse than all the possible probabilities of not knowing what's going to happen next?
I believe there are two all-powerful gods - Probability and Necessity.

Probability is the woman you wish you could marry when you are young, but Necessity is the one who becomes your wife when you become older.
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