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Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018
by ex-l
I do think one of the big differences between when we were BKs and now ... is us. Other ex-BKs and the internet across which we can communicate.

I think we and what we have discovered can act as a more powerful "detergent" breaking the film, or delusion, of BKism by little more than firm but gentle accurate crticisms and truths.

In the old days, ex-BKs just disappeared and were ostracised by the elders. Their BK mind set or paradigm busting influence was kept away from the newly indoctrinated. I think it would be useful for us to prepare a written statement saying, "Look, we were you once and this is what we found ... this is what is going to happen ...".

It may not have an immediate effect, it may have an overnight effect, who knows. But it will plant seeds in their minds just as exiting BKs did in mine when I was a BK. Especially, for me, when their humour rose above BK fear mongering tactics.

I am hoping that their Father is no so deeply into BKism that they have a total grip over him yet. That there is still a chance to pull him out.

If not, I would argue that they need to prepare themselves to cut him out as surely, and more quickly, as the BKs would have him cut them off. And protect the family's interests, eg wealth, property etc.

To sit him down in a genuinely concerned manner - not to confront or argue with him and not to allow him to proselytize BKism (to try and convert) - with the whole family, members of these other families, his boss or workmates, and a statement from us would surely have some effect. Allow him to think overnight about it.

The family also needs to think about what they would do/feel/cope with an 'either/or' situation and prepare themselves for that, eg would he demand to take half the property, would he pay support for the wife and child etc.

The thing you, Prerna, don't realise yet is that if you Father goes down the route of BKism 100% ... all you will be left with is a shell on the outside. A lodger in your own house. A BK agent looking for any opportunity to promote BKism and convert the rest of you.

To me, it appears he is very close to that already ... which is why I am asking things like, "where does he eat?" and about his love life to work out his degree of BK commitment.

Something else ... the way fully committed BK Brothers used to work is that they would give their entire wage to the BK Sister - as if she was their wife or mother - and she would give him back enough pocket money to live on (I don't know if they still practise this).

I'd be carefully monitoring the amount of money he is giving the BKs and most certainly, taking control over any mutual family wealth.

If he is married ... he took holy vows with his wife. He entered into a partnership. Finances are a partnership issue.

The BKs will try and make him break those vows and partnership and if they cannot control (convert) the partner, then will increasing try and split it so that they get a bigger cut of his income and wealth.

Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018
by ex-l
Prerna wrote:My Father wakes up at 3-4 am, does his meditation, gets ready and goes to office around 7. Then he comes back around 8-9 pm.

I wonder if he really goes directly to the office, or goes to the BK centre on the way.

Have you ever offered to walk with him to the office, or to meet him after work to see where he goes?

Normally a "pukka BK's" routine is to do "Amrit Vela" meditation starting at 3 or 4am for 45 minutes, and then go to "Morning Class" for more meditation and to hear a short class and "the Murli" (their god spirit's and guru's teachings) before 8am.

In our day, morning class would start around 6.45am but I believe these days it has become shorter and more concise to keep people in.

BKism works by dripping feeding adherents, you could work by gently distrupting that and pulling him out of their influence kindly, or toward things, people and activities he enjoyed before.

In our Library section, there are copies of these Murli teachings and their teachers' training course where you can see how they teach and what they teach. It won't make much sense to you ... but when it comes to sitting with him, you can print some of the Murlis off so he can see you know what they really teach.

They are 100% authentic and accurate.

Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018
by ex-l
Some of the excuse the BKs will use and teach your Father are things like the folllowing. As a rule, they just employ clever word play:

a) "No one forces anyone to come or to stay".
    Except, perhaps, for the case of the young virgins (kunyas) in training, this is true ... but onl at face value. It depends on a twist. The BKs do not use force, they brainwash or re-program people with a process of hypnosis, auto-hypnosis, and repetitive suggestion and auto-suggestion.

    You can read on this forum or search for topics on "Stockholm Syndrome", an instance where kidnap victims, even after a very short period of a few days, were found to take sides and stick with their abductors. So it is with the BKs.
b) "No one forces you to give money/property etc"
    Again this is also true ... but only they don't use "force". It's just the same as above, constant, subtle, suggestion and "nudging" when individuals are in a suggestible state of mind (trance or coming out of trance).

    However, when it comes money, jewellery etc, the local center-in-charges are put under pressure by the headquarters to bring money in, eg when they arranging a mega-progromme to attract VIPs and politicians or building a big new retreat centre, and they in turn pressurise followers with lots of hints, suggestions, "reminders" of the karmic benefits.

    Generally, the kick off price for being a BK starts at a "suggested" 10% of income but increases to as much as 100% of everything.

    They won't pressurise outsiders and newcomers and so outsiders and newcomers will defend them saying, "they never asked me for anything" ... which again is largely true. It's all done much more subtly than that.

    And who is a give and who is not is noted.
c) Our god is your God (and your God is a poor, partial and confused recollection of our god).
    It takes a long time for some people to realise that the BKs' god spirit is not the same as their god spirit or general concept of God or, indeed, is entirely different. By which time they are hooked on "the experience". BKs will refer to their god spirit in vague and general terms that the new follower is comfortable with, eg "the One ... the Father ... the Supreme ... the Light" and so on. This is their number one deception.

    Some outsiders, such as the VIPs, politicians and academics never do realise what the BKs are really teaching and defend them because of it and, hence, are manipulated to give support to the BKs on entirely false grounds.

    BKs are taught to deceive and manipulate outsiders over this, but their concept of god is of an entirely separate being and not accept by any other religion. Of course, the BKs think they are right and everyone else is ignorant and wrong.

    They will let outsiders deceive themselves when they talk in their own terms.
Internally, the BKs are absolute. Only they have a direct relationship with "god", only they have accurate knowledge of "god", "god" only comes in personal and talks to them. No one else in history has this and it is only through them that you can come to know him and have it.

To outsiders, they have learned to talk sort of respectful about other religions but internally they are all "paths of ignorance". "Bhakti" is looked down upon by them. They believe what they do is entirely different and superior. That they are the most superior religious teaches humanity will ever know.

Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

PostPosted: 05 Nov 2018
by Pink Panther
One small thing I will add which may help in gaining insight into how a newcomer’s fascination with BKs, like your Father’s, becomes an obsession. Small, but significant, and may take quite a few words.

If one has gone through life aware of the concept of a ”spiritual” side to life, ideas like meditation, spiritual knowledge and wisdom, when one finally decides to learn about it and practice it (for whatever reasons) - the newcomer is then accepting that they do not know and trusts that the one presenting as a teacher does know.

If anything transmitted has an effect, it acts as ”proof” of the teacher’s knowledge. The trap is that both the student and the teacher may believe their level of knowledge and their approach to practice is the best and most suitable regardless. The BK Murli often says, "This is the only shop in town" - a phrase that carries different implications;
    One, do not go elsewhere, they have inferior or non-genuine product,
    Two, and more importantly - spirituality is a transaction.
In all religious paths there is a popular, mundane form that tends to be transactional - attend worship regularly, donate regularly, ie give & do physical things, and you will be receive ”spiritual” rewards.

Then some religious paths have another deeper, mystical level (mystical means ineffable, beyond words, an understanding of the supra-personal that evolves from what is innate rather than achieved through received ”instruction”) and is completely personal. All words and descriptions misleading and inadequate. Congregations distract the genuine individual because of their group dynamics. These traditions tend to manifest hermits, solitaries, or very small communities that eschew the big organisational structures of the popular form and their involvement with marketing, PR, politics (internal and external) fund-raising etc. (I refer you to the topic elsewhere on this forum called ”Never Build Ashrams” - based on a warning given by Swami Sivananda in one of his Yoga treatise).

The BKs play this game too, pretending that there is deeper and higher levels of "Yoga" and "knowledge" that one can attain (ie be rewarded with) and the achievement of that is ”proven” not through one becoming less dependent on the group and more individually independent in one’s spiritual ”journey” but rather, quite the opposite, through one’s increasing involvement with the BK organisation and concern with validation of one’s ”spiritual” status within it, the kind of regard given to certain people ahead of others - thereby contradicting the very idea of the immeasurable, mystical path. (Some may say this is more to do with the character of the individual but I’d suggest they do nothing to disabuse anyone of this delusion).

The BKs cannot tell the difference between personal maturation and dependence on the group. In their view, there is no difference. All money, Yoga, effort, energy is for the ”glorification” of their Baba (a very needy point of light indeed!) and all spiritual attainment for the person is ”product” - or more precisely a ”by-product".

Especially for someone raised in a culture concerned with status/class/caste and hierarchy, the BK organisation can seem like a tangible, measurable path of spiritual achievement. (One measure is how comfortable are you with it all- another subtle entrapment). They boast about their popularity and ubiquitous presence around India and the world, and connections with VIPs as a kind of proof. A contradiction in terms surely. And very questionable as any kind of proof given there are other groups with gretaer presence around the world and greater connections with more VIPs etc.

An analogy I would make for how the BKs operate is with martial arts schools. Some are "esoteric”, there are no grades, belts, certificates. There is only the practice. Then there are others that are essentially franchises.

Not only do they literally have a financial franchise system where tribute is paid upstream, ie any student that qualifies to teach to a certain level starts a class, charges fees and pays a commission to his ”senior", but also when students attain their different grades, they get belts or certificates for displaying the most rudimentary ability to imitate a high skill. They are rewarded sooner than later because, rather than relying on their dedication merely to improve skills by which many would get bored and drop out, they are encouraged with a ”pat on the head” and their ego is stroked by being awarded pieces of paper or cloth, so they are encouraged to go the next level and pay a commercial rate for class fees thereby keeping the ’trailing commissions’ flowing uphill (called "Trickle up” economics!).

The BKs are very much of the second type, although they are more clever. They do their ‘grading’ less obviously and directly, more akin to ”society” status as found in the newspaper gossip columns. Who is visiting, who is going where, there are ”famous” or VIP BKs whose movements are announced in classes and newsletters, and about who gets invited to what, how much personal time they'd be allocated in any meeting with a senior, where they are billeted when they visit HQ, what rules they are required to follow and which will be overlooked etc. That is, their self-serving business model is exposed by the way they bend and break their own rules and values according to a nominal student’s donations, physical but especially monetary, their status in general society, any fame or reputation that may be traded on by BKs for publicity, and so on.

The BK game is a game of thrones, and the one sitting on the throne is ego. It is a game of ego, appeals to the ego based on desire. Desire to identify and be identified not only as as spiritual, but ”more" spiritual than others. (As if one apple is more ”apple” than other apples! )

The BK newcomer is like the baby elephant that is trained by being tied to a certain structure, so that when it grows to its full maturity, when it could easily break free from that structure, it won't because it has been conditioned to believe in a reality that it was informed by when it was immature.

I hope you understand what I mean by all this.

Re: My Father losing himself for BK & destroying our family

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2018
by ex-l
Pink Panther wrote:The BK Murli often says, "This is the only shop in town" - a phrase that carries different implications;
    One, do not go elsewhere, they have inferior or non-genuine product,
    Two, and more importantly - spirituality is a transaction.

This should be underlined and is well supported by the BKs' own teaching. They even call their god spirit or guru "the Clever Businessman". It is also a direct quote from their Murli scripture.

Their guru, Lekhraj Kirpalani, and his family came from a strictly merchant class. All through the philosophy and cult is a business mentality. I argue that BKism is basically a development of the Sindi Bhaibund caste mentality and morality where, instead of trading other people's products - buy low, sell high, they trade in others’ ideas, repackaging familiar sounding terms and practices as their own. And, yes, the centres run very much like business franchises, where the local business owners have to pay a commission to their higher-ups who control the monopoly.

Don't be distracted by the blur of concepts and ideas, or dragged into conversation or arguments about them, just see it as a business, a way to grab free money and labour from people who are told it is "the Supreme Religion" (what the BKs call seva).

People are sucked in by promises that giving the BKs money and free labour - at a "multi-million fold return" - will clean their karma or earn them multi-million times material fortune in the future. It's not even really about "goodness", it is an extension of Lekhraj Kirpalani's primary interest - and what he did well - to earn lots of money.

Likewise, before you hear anything about their guru or his religion, presume what you are being told is false; an exaggeration or an outright lie. They have re-invented themselves so many times. Even existing center-in-charges don't know what the truth is as they are not encouraged to seek it out.

How are you Prerna and how are things ... are you still with us?

Re: My Father losing himself for BK and destroying our famil

PostPosted: 14 Nov 2018
by Pink Panther
That’s very true ex-l,

Culture is a very powerful shaper of values and motives

I think this reversion to ‘type’, in terms of Sindhi bhaibund ”mercenary” behaviour, was inevitable, happening as it did after the early failures of the predicted (and revised then failed again) end of the world ultimatums. The reclusive cult ran out of money and having alienated many in their local community they had no income, so some had to go out in the the world with some kind of new "message" that would bring in donations to feed and sustain this community, whose original reason for existing had collapsed. What options did they have? The ones they know best! The product was adapted, developed and evolved until it found its successful form.

We are often as blind to the culture that shapes us as we are to the fact that its not only others who speak with an accent, its not only others who are 'ethnic', its not only others who are are susceptible to being conned or sincerely believe things that are foolish.

Offtopic: Prerna and others, FYI - if you want to stay notified of updates to particular topics or any new posts, there are notifications settings you can switch on and off