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Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by vlakshmi

I have sent sakash to one of my clients without her knowledge for a thing which is not in my control. Result was so wonderful that even I could not believe. I have never taken credit for this. My policy is to do and withdraw like a tortoise.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Dear Dr Lakshmi

Let move on. Pray for the world - not one only. Somewhere i read the BK waits for billions may die and so they can rule. In which case wonder if you could pray for the billions rather than one.

Good wishes and thanks to you.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by ex-l
CS1979 wrote:Especially what do you do if they want me to be friendly with them again?... I want to know what are the tricks and charms they will employ to see I am back with them.

There are two elements here;
    a) A simple "what to do" in this situation, and
    b) Asking why, for example, you have not already severed the connection, that is looking at your own personal need or vulnerability that allows such people now - and others ... other women ... in the future - to potentially exploit you
What is the enjoyment or pay off you were getting out of the relationship that you would not cut off immediately, eg your enjoyment of her care or flirting. Or perhaps something deeper.

The simple 'what to do' is
    "treat her like the pickpocket, con artist or village thief or prostitute that she is".
If you caught a pickpocket, were cheated by a con artist, or everyone in the village knew someone was a thief ... would you allow them into your life just because they were charming, flattering and attentive? Those are the tools of their trade.

Brahma Kumaris prostitute their feminity in order to serve the cult.

Unfortunately the police are not interested in the level of confidence tricksters and social parasites that the Brahma Kumaris operate because, of course, it a sort of norm amongst the lower levels of religious people in India. But that is all they are.

You have a number of choices, eg
    i) Treat her with aggressive contempt and make sure everyone around know their game to shut them down or run them out of the area
    ii) If you are strong, have some fun with the situation and attempt to trick and con her out of as much as you can by return ... without giving her anything back. If she is genuinely flirting with you, see how far she is willing to go in that direction. Turn her on, and see if she is willing to break her principles.
Here is what I have learned in life ... and it starts from
    a) an old Sufi saying that,
    "The definition of a fool, is someone who is honest to a dishonest person"

    And you can apply that to other virtues, eg sincere to an insincere person, reasonable to an unreasonable. Whereas it is "good" to be "good" with "good people", it is idiocy to be "good" with "bad" people, and

    b) Fighting with dogs.

    For example, if a dog bites you, do not give it your hand to get rid of it! You do not let it have a few fingers just because it is hungry. You do not even pull your hand back (as that is the way its teeth stick in deeper to your meat) ... you push your hand down its throat which makes it sick and panic and not be able to bite you.
Therefore, I am suggesting *because* the Brahma Kumaris break the general social contract between us, you can treat them like the dogs they are. You can treat them according to the level they are at ... if you wish.

They are not Godly, they are Dogly.

And vlakshmi is here to show you how they think and how they defend themselves.

Do not start by trusting someone 100% and then allow that to diminish as they break that trust. Start of 0% and build up as they *prove* they value you and your trust ... that is what these con artists feed off. They feed off good, trusting people. They will take 100% if and for how long they can, they will take 90% if they can, they will take 80% if they can, they will take 30% if they can ... they will take they can and for how long they can.

Now, the BKs play a clever game, it is a clever game based on the cult's Sindhi roots. They have been taught clevel tricks to catch monkeys like you ... you know the trick of putting some "free" fruit or sweets in a monkey trap bottle? Just let go.

They give a little, to get a lot back. They act "like sugar in milk" (direct quote). They use their femine sexuality ... but withhold the goods so you keep coming back for more. They offer "free" courses ... but only as a loss leader to their business of exploiting you for life.

Then once they get their hooks in you, they will confuse your mind completely, separate you from your family and friends, and make you dependent on them like drug dealers do their customers.

Therefore, there is what to do in this situation ... and the lesson for life on how to treat such people.

The BKs will not change, it is their nature. They are blood suckers ... life suckers. Your chance is to learn this lesson of recognising them for what they are - and how to deal with blood suckers - for life, as there are more blood suckers out there, each with their own camoflague, each with their own tricks, each with their own "intoxicating" poison.

And, like I say, vlakshmi is only here - as a BK - to allow you to see how BKs think, and how they use language to fool people. Look at what they are saying and how they are saying.

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Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Dear Pink Panther

You understood my plight but while not specifying the ways they will lure me back, you have in your words said they will and I must guard myself and move on. In fact, other non-BK sites suggesting ways to go away from cheating friends and colleagues are clear, cut them off from your life.

The last call came from a number don't know and my friend was there informing that they moved to a new place and I must visit. Having said that I am busy - the friend (not yet cut off) said this is the last time I will be called in invitation - I said OK. And so friends, I hope that ends my plight. I don't want a call again and the friend will hopefully, knowing that I won't visit, will never call.

Yes, I have friends and hope to connect with them. But then will continue to discuss here to see how my days ahead progresses. Never knew some strong people like Pink Panther and ex-I walked through the BK and are out helping those that need a pull out.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Hi ex-I,

Brilliant, read yours after I posted above.

The need for getting back earlier into that family was only for the gratefulness for the help extended, but once I came to know of the flirting with others (with me - it was only food and being considered a family member, and as an "agony-healer". My only reciprocation for the care was - money and gifts and buying their groceries as and when - as someone would say - a "high" created in a city far away from town and a sense of belonging.)

While I have become or becoming more stronger for a quick cut off after reading posts here, and yours and other posts, it is easy to take such a decision too. I had mentioned about the call to visit and today. I realized today is special and knowing my ways - that I will get some gift - the invitation was perhaps in their mind.

Thank you and pink panther for being like "Ram-Lakshman" to me - as similar - in saving situations for Sugreeva or Vibhishan ... though we need a strong mind to pull through. I am in the process of bringing my family to stay with me and shift to a new place. Yes, feel like I escaped from a street of thieves and scoundrels in a good mask. Pity them, but pity me more for having to come to such a road or pass.

In jest - I want to say this. Praying for those fall unconscious, try to see who is near and when you wake up to ensure you ask one question to the savior - Are you a BK? If yes, then remember my story and move on.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Dear Pink Panther and ex- I

As I read your posts and elsewhere - yes, it did happen like that for many days and weeks in a row - felt I was cut off from my family and friends. On some weekends, good events like picnics and visit to places were planned when they got the hint I will travel home. I had once canceled my home trip just to be with them on an emergency - later I found was a trivial reason. One constant refrain from them always was - both the husband and wife - some medical problem and some injury and pain ... and so the adopted servant will have to do more at times ...

As I realize now - they wanted to be perched on a throne and live a life of a savant or king ... and the slave part ... makes sense for those around.

A lot of trivial events now come back to mind on how they have manipulated my mind ... it only makes me laugh and angry, yet determined that I have a better gyaani than a small Baba through their teachings.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by ex-l
Yes, the BKs use the old "we are a family" ... "you are our family" ... as part of the confidence trick. Even to disarm their enemies. I have seen that from the top down with Dadi Janki.

Yes, after the publicity success of BK Shivani's TV shows, they have adopted the "agony aunt" role as part of their confidence trick ... but it is not their real teachings, purpose or end game. It is just a "loss leader" to suck you in. Once you are in, the game changes.

It's not traditional BKism as we studied and were taught it. It is a recent adoption ... but that is what the BKs do. Their primary principle is not integrity, it is one of "expedience"; if a word or idea works, they will adopt and spread its use across the cult.

Funnily enough, I am learning from you too ... because I have just realised we were additionally conned too. In my time, Dadi Janki always used to "fall ill and be serious sick" and the class would become excited with concern for her ... this went on for decades with her and she would always "magically" get better.

Now I wonder if it is just a trick some of them use ... if it is more widespread. It makes sense.

One question though, how and why do you still call this person a "friend"?

The truth is, on one hand, the BKs cannot really have friends as you and I understand the word. It is against their teachings (aka attachments). They are just charming con artists. They use the mask of friendliness to con you. It is just about how useful/profitable you are to them, and a kind of business. They give to get back more.

On the other hand, if there genuinely *is* friendship and attraction between you, then that is against their religion, which means the individual is a bad example of it. A failure.

However, stripping away all of the layers of confusion and delusion, the individual is also just a woman and also just confused and conflicted, and possibly under a lot of pressure from her Seniors to capture more followers or increase centre income.

It's difficult for us to know from here without knowing more.

Does she want to escape BKism?

There is a point that BKs cross over from being a victim of the system, to becoming an abuser within the system. It is hard to tell if she is a victim or has been turned into an abuser yet. Or whether she is just a woman at the level she was before she became a BK ... struggling to get by. It would be better if she got an honest job, made an honest income and stopped the BKs from sucking her blood.

Yes, people like Pink, Gupta, Truth and I are all people who were bitten hard by the BK snake, who had the BK parasites connect to and poisoning our veins and our minds ... but where some how - perhaps with the help of the real God or Gods - able to survive, free ourselves, and then unpick BKism from our minds and spirits.

We have taken the poison within us, to turn it into medicine, to free and protect others.

We provide antidotes with our anecdotes.

We have also developed thick skins, so when a BK comes back to bites us, in order to poison our minds, however hard they bite, it has no effect on us any more. It is like a snake biting on a suit of armour. It will only break its teeth.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by ex-l
I would do society a service before your finish with them, and write a formal letter complaining about their conduct to the headquarters in Mount Abu. Exaggerate your disgust and concern at their betreyal of Godly standards, exploitation of you, and so on. Demand the organisation investigates their finances and threaten to report them to the tax collectors.

Any income they declare should be reported. The BKs have gotten into trouble over this before. By taking food and services, they avoid financially taxable records ... it is all part of their trickery. However, from a legal point of view, goods and services ARE payment.

The BKs have been terrible tax dodgers and government exploiters since their earliest days, eg taking fortunes off the British for properties they "lost" in the Sind.

Yet they claim to be "Godly" and pure.

And BK Vlakshmi is a good example of how they think ... BK Vlakshmi is a committed BK, however, when you raise a crime they don't respond like an honest person, eg "This is most terrible and a terrible reflection on our religion ... I must look into and put a stop it immediately ... I will raise the issue with my Seniors"!!!

Actually, that is a legal responsibility (if you know of a crime, you must report it).

No, instead they come up with lines and lines to mentally confuse you, turn it back on you and your faults, and make excuses for the criminals and their criminal organisation to defend it.

This is also what the BKs do ... if there is a problem, it is yours problem. Don't look, don't question, don't say it is their problem.

They have re-labelled and re-marketed corruption as the "highest service" and "purity".

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Hi, ex-I,

Your entire posts are re-readable and give a true life picture of what happens. I liked the Dadi Janki illness bit. Others worrying. Later Dadi getting magically fine. This reminds me of a tree with Monkeys. The largest monkey doing something and all other smaller monkeys trying to imitate in a small way. The monkey that got me was not fresh and not old- but their relative being a high hand and sort of convincer may have led this family to be part of the system.

Nothing of reporting as they are not true practitioners of the BK faith - but use the tricks of sly and sweet words to get the person like me stuck. It makes a lot of sense for them to achieve more doing less. If not me they have more engaging victims in the pipeline and may know how to exploit better.

I have mentally dumped the connection and proximity in geography too. I think I visited a zoo and had a good time- knowing now that I cannot take a friendly monkey home, for the bananas and fruits they will snatch, nor the friendly lion who is always thirsting for human blood.

Sort of next visit will be to the planetarium, at least I will be asked to use the binoculars to see far off objects. So calming and divine, but yet as my astrologer uncle will tell, they too control you. Life seems to be magnetic like earth - we have to revolve and depend on our smartness where, and when to stop and do our OWN bit.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by ex-l
Certainly, keeping busy on other things, and making connections with other good, practical and down to earth people, is good advice for people exiting BKs ... I would not advice getting too much into astrology either, it can also be addictive and controlling.

However, compassion for others both stuck inside BKism and others about to be targeted by them is also a good thing and service to society, eg helping them get out, and warning people about their intentions and true teachings, and an association with them.

People try and say we are "anti-BK" but that is not true, what matters is intenton. This woman may well have been trapped by her family member first, before becoming addicted to the lifestyle, and internally want to be free. Hence her conduct.

You may be helping to loosen the connection between her and the BKWSU or, if her house is being used as a centre, even by have her expelled ... however, it is very rare they do that. She is doing what the leadership encourages.

It would just stop her contacting you if she new you did not tolerate her indulgences.

WIthout intervention though, she will just move on to other victims, therefore, if she is using "flirty fishing" tactics to get income ... I *would* put in an official complaint about that.

Even a good BK would.

Is her house a centre? Does she have "students" ... aka 'victims' and 'trainee abusers'? You might say the BKWSU is a 90:10 mix of victims and abusers (illustrative figures only ... it may just be 99:1?).

You giving food etc means she can use any income on other things ... like what? ... therefore it is equal to income.

Do she and her husband work for a living?

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Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by ex-l
vlakshmi wrote:Because after analysing main-stream religions, I understood many things are not logical in them, hence can’t be from God. BK-teaching — especially its teaching of numberwise rewarding/descending on to the word-drama stage — could not have been guessed by any human being
Pink Panther wrote:Woah! ...

Woah indeed. It may be worth splitting the topic here to address just vlakshmi.

The question I would ask you is who created your comprehension and understanding of what is logic? Whose logic was it, and what sort of logic was it?

You've previously mentioned the influential role of your old professor, who apparently had a very literal acceptable of Hindu mythology. Was it from him rather than your parents or grandparents?

I'd like you to look at the shape and nature of your logic in order to understand how BKism could have fitted so easily into it and been accepted by you ... how it was similar and familiar to the shape of what was there before.

What I am asking you to do here is examine the shape of and distortions in the lens of your mind, through which you see the world.

We all have them. We are all, also, largely unconscious of them (eg our biases, our distortions, our shortsightedness etc). Who made you in this life, and how could you so easily make the step to accept a 5,000 year long ticking stopwatch?

You have your family and parents' DNA, and that is part of it, but what were the other layers?

We have talked about this with relevance to Lekhraj Kirpalani's mind, eg his preference for symmetry, hierarchy, numbers, royalty ... all elements of his mind that are clearly rooted in her early life, and how we are infected by them regardless of our own background. Obviously the various Hindu themes and familiar terms are also part of that.

You see the world through the lens of your mind ... but do you ever examine it, and have a check up of your spiritual vision? Are you sure it is 20:20?

Re: My Story (flirting fishing and sub-centre abuse)

PostPosted: 08 May 2019
by Pink Panther

you have shown your good intentions by returning and sharing your views (albeit reticently and not directly at times) but that is still respect-worthy.

ex-l's question is about what kind of ”soil” your mind is, why certain seeds take root and ignores others?

What I will add is some background to that kind of question (food for thought?). As you are a psychiatrist I think you will be able to follow each of them ...

Semiotics is a science of how we convey and take meaning. Symbols and metaphors are powerful.

Every event in life is like a Rorschach ink blot test, we each see different shapes and patterns in these episodes - and that reveals our "perspective" to us, how we ”interpret” things, but often we just take our subjective view as objective reality.

Ideally we’d like to be able to see ourselves directly too, all our foibles and qualities. That requires circumspection, objectivity. It is impossible for the eye to see itself. The only objective distancing we can create is the distance of time, self-reflection.

(I am wary of the word spiritual, it can be twisted so many ways but here goes ...)

A truly spiritual person is aware of what lies behind logic - even their own logic, especially their own "logic". What comes before conscious thought? What impulses motivate us in the immediate situation and in the longer term?

Spiritual people don't believe whatever they think.

They know the worst liar is the one that lies to themselves because they want to believe it.

Ego is a trickster, always seeking to preserve itself, to preserve the ”I” that I know and has worked so far.

Spiritual people do not accept whatever anyone says without relating it to prior understanding which was incomplete, and they know that this current understanding is also not complete.
    How was I conditioned ?
    How has ”nurture” shaped me?
    How has what was lacking shaped me?
    Do I hide my feeling nature behind my reasoning or do i twist my reasoning to serve a feeling?
    How do I make them both clear, strong, serving and informing each appropriately?
I am not asking for specific answers on top of ex-l’s main question. These are sub-sets to consider.

Re: My Story (flirting fishing and sub-centre abuse)

PostPosted: 08 May 2019
by vlakshmi
Hi Pink Panther,

Thank you for explaining to me.

I was not conditioned by anybody. There may be some people in BK who are conditioned or having blind beliefs. But it doesn’t mean everyone is like them—especially me who accepted BK-ism after all my secular studies.

When I finished my 7-day class, the very next day I put God into test:

1)Before going to sleep, I told Him: “I never get up without the help of an Alam Clock. Today I am going to sleep without setting my Alam Clock, and if you wake me up at 4 “O” clock in the early morning, I will do my Rajayoga meditation. To my surprise, He did it for me, and have been doing it for me ever since then, till today.

2) I was also seeking His guidance on very vital matters, and I was getting perfect guidance from Him which have done wonders for me.

3) I am also enjoying link with Him, the immediate result of which is bliss. Because of this I can remain linked to Him to any length of time which is unlike sensual pleasures which have a diminishing effect as you enjoy it more and more.

I can list more reasons to show that I am not conditioned—but the above three are more than enough.

Re: My Story (flirting fishing and sub-centre abuse)

PostPosted: 08 May 2019
by Rita
Hi vlakshmi
God is a test subject for you. That’s amazing.
I even get up in the morning on time without alarm clock everyday at the same time and I don’t believe in God.

Re: My Story (flirting fishing and sub-centre abuse)

PostPosted: 08 May 2019
by Pink Panther
Vlakshmi - . Everything you just said is most subjective. You may want to look into the field known these days as "depth psychology” - there are very simple yet profound explanations of all these experiences.
vlakshmi wrote:3) I am also enjoying link with Him, the immediate result of which is bliss. Because of this I can remain linked to Him to any length of time which is unlike sensual pleasures which have a diminishing effect as you enjoy it more and more.

I doubt that. At some point even the most pleasant thing becomes unpleasant. Sleep in a bed of roses long enough and it will turn into a bed of nails.

Unless you want to end up like those sanyassis I’ve seen at the Kumbh Mela and other places whose limbs develop gangrene as they bliss themselves out from reality, limbs atrophied in certain positions in the mistaken belief/hope that it’s the way to get a blessing or boon or a clearing of karma or other such nonsense. They have a blissful idiot smile on their faces, but they're so out of touch with reality.

Blissful BK meditation sure, we've all experienced that and then some. But at some point it too diminishes - you have to move, to get up, to lie down, to ****, to eat. You are kidding only yourself.
vlakshmi wrote:I was not conditioned by anybody.

Everyone, and I mean everyone is conditioned by others, by family, society, by lack of family, by lack of society etc. You seem afraid to acknowledge any other possibilities. Maybe you misunderstood me.

My point is that we grow up with certain imagery, iconography, values etc - call it ”culture” in short. We are taught to think and behave according to certain patterns, When we grow dissatisfied or disillusioned by the imperfections of that culture we often get drawn to other ”patternings’ - we see there's greener grass on the other side - similar enough to relate to, not so strange that we can;t comprehend it. It speaks our "language”

And as we are not as familiar with the new one, like a new boyfriend we tend see their virtue and are drawn to them, while the familiarity with the minutiae of our own received culture leads to contempt - as per the saying ”familiarity breeds contempt” .

Hindus become Christians, Christians become Buddhists, and so on. In BKs, you will find the received patterns play out. They only really changed costumes, the core personality and conditioning and religious ”feeling" is still there, just expressed in a new way. That’s OK, it’s fine. It's experimentation, trying things out. But, in the end, we need to understand our primal impulses including the religious impulse, the association of unconscious archetypes with our externally projected romance.

That God you've experience is within you. The meditation technique accessed it. By association, you believe those that showed you the technique when they said that the God you experienced is their Shiva Baba, outside you. But ask - where have you had that experience other than from within yourself? Sure the imagery works, it's powerful. Meditation is one avenue to access the unconscious and you were ripe for the experience. If you came across another suitable method of ”quickening” you woudl swear that was the way. But behind every named way is a deeper way that cannot be named.

As the Tibetan Buddhists say
You may believe in your gods and your demons, but remember that they are your gods and your demons