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My Story (flirting fishing and sub-centre abuse)

PostPosted: 05 May 2019
by CS1979
Saw the whole pic in a few months to a year. My story

I had just moved from my village home to a new place in a city for a job after completing my CA. I had left my family - wife, kid, parents back in the village bordering a city. Been in touch and visiting my folks regularly. In the months before coming to the city, I had an accident and my jaw was injured but got alright in a few weeks. In the new city, my job was good. However, one day early in the morning I had great pain in the mouth and started to almost fall unconscious.

One of the lady colleagues Karishma helped through the situation and started nursing me back to health over a two-week period. She informed her husband and had me shift closer to their home and started taking care of my food. In return, I used to pay them handsomely and buy gifts, etc regularly. There were these symbols and lights and photo in their house which suggested to me that they are believers of BK and had a flag outside their apartment. They took me to one lecture by Shivani and I was not convinced by the talk. Later the husband’s Sister, who is an ardent BK, came and wanted to brainwash me about BK, which I politely refused.

In the meanwhile, the food came, and my gifting continued. Many times, I noticed Karishma was flirting with another individual without her husband knowing, and because he was a rich person. A lot of her travelling to the office was taken care of by the rich guy. I benefitted too. One day I objected to her flirting, which I saw was bad, and she fought with me. I threatened to leave the place and move elsewhere. Immediately she falls at my feet and says she will never contact that rich guy and so the food keeps coming and my gifting and money for the food – which was higher than if could cook or even keep a maid. Somehow this family never let out their true BK practices, and I doubt they were true followers, except for that Sister. I changed my job in a nearby place that did not require so much travel.

Meanwhile, they brought a teenage boy who was orphan and wanted a job, so they got him a room nearby, got his driver’s license – he is now the driver and cooks, etc including taking care of their child and they ensure he pays from the salary he earns. He is enjoying it, but I consider he is being used.

Soon the flirting of Karishma started and I decided to move away from this sort of a family where they are exploitative, and whenever I don’t gift or give money their behavior used to become obnoxious. They always complained of dying or having serious medical problems, and continued to enjoy life.

I felt I had been brainwashed into being part of their system and never had the courage to move out. Finally, it did happen. I moved away from that place. The flirting is now with three or four men, and I know for sure the family believes in taking money from whoever is ready to pay. While the husband is helpless, as he depends on Karishma’s salary, Karishma continues to enjoy life despite being a patient of many illnesses. A lot of money is required for medicines, the EMI for loans taken, the child education, etc.

I moved out citing illness and a sad state of my jaws and requiring money for treatment. I vowed never to contact or call. But I used to get calls from Karishma who wanted to know if I am not well. Soon the calls stopped, but there is an underlying feeling that she will come back and offer help, etc. I know how to handle this but still, feel sad for the guys who do not know they are being taken for a ride by this Karishma for whom money matters most.

I did feel sad and lonely for a few weeks and now on way to recovery. Still, want the BK aspects to go out of my system; their constant thing of karma, not to be in touch with my wife, etc. I feel some hypnosis was done on me.

Hope I could get to know any instance like this anyone faced, and how they steered themselves free from such families?

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 05 May 2019
by ex-l
What an amazing snapshot of the reality of BKism 'on the ground' as it were.

Were they running a "Gita pathsala"? It means a sort of BK local sub-centre in a private house or apartment.

Can you define "flirting"? This is also an accusation that has been made about certain BKs Sisters from within the system going back at least 40 years. In fact, even right back unto their beginnings in the 1930s and 40s ... women using their feminity to get services from men - and targeting sugar daddies - without (for the most part) "delivering the goods", ie providing the physical element.

Yes, we would agree that BKism involved *both* a hypnotic element, but also a spiritualistic element, that is to say the influence of "spirits" (however you understand that). The hypnosis is used to relax your guard, afterwhich they open you up, and initiate you into a relationship with their god spirit or spirits. A sort of channelling or mild possession.

My conclusion is that the BKs' god spirits are parasitical and actually feed off followers' energy, not just their money and free labour. They or the practise gives you a high or drunken-like experience (intoxication) during which you are indoctrinated and enculted even deeper.

They use the ‘Sisters' to suck people like you in. Thank God you escaped now before your life and family was destroyed ... they would have taken everything if they could.

However, it also sounds as if this woman is behaving unethically ... EVEN BY BK standards ... and should be reported to their HQ. The quickest way to get rid of one, is to report their unethical behaviour to their superiors. We can look at your case and advise from a BK point of view.

Thank you.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by vlakshmi
Baba’s often repeated request to the children is to “become flowers from thorns.” Thorns are defined as “those who commit vice.” This “becoming flowers from thorns” are happening “numberwise.” It means each one takes his own time to become flower from thorns. The situation is like a highway where you will find all sorts of vehicle moving in all varying speed. If one leaves the highway because he saw some vehicles moving slow, it is his choice — but in the big picture it doesn’t serve any purpose because those moving slow now are doing so because of their karmic account or sanskar, and they may change later when Karmic account is settled or when present circumstances change and they may even overtake others.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by ex-l
And so - as in another question to you -
    is such behaviour acceptable,
    what does the BKWSU do to protect the vulnerable and newcomers from exploitation,
    what and where is the system for access such protection,
    are the wrongdoers punished - and if so how - and
    are the victims compensation for their loss and damage?
What if one realises that *all* of the traffic is going at a slow speed and the road is so blocked that no one can go faster? Indeed, that the surface is so unsatisfactory, that high speed is impossible?

And having reach the far end of it, you discover it has no destination but just goes round and round and round?

What should one do then?

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by vlakshmi

If such situations are there, then it is extremely rare which I come to know from you now. I have not seen any of such situations in my nearly 20 years of association with BKs. If it happens, as in any organization, BKs too will handle it. And also, no one can evade Karmic Law.

When one understands his/her duty in this Confluence Age, he/she will not look at others, but will mind only his duty of becoming a flower at the earliest because it is in his/her best interest. What one concentrates would appear bigger and bigger--and what is of mustard size will seem like an insurmountable mountain.

On the contrary, if one concentrates on the infinite aspects of BK-knowledge, even things of mountain size would become like mustard seed.

I have a formula which helps me to stay balanced:
If someone doesn't practice what is taught in BK-system, it is his choice and his lose.
If someone does practice what is taught in BK-system, it is his choice and his gain.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by ex-l
20 years only takes you back to 1999 ... which may make it difficult for you to see and understand things from our perspective, one that goes back to the 1980s and 1970s. For example, after the failure of Year 2000, they appear to softened and edited out their End of the World predictions. You won't know how prevalent the encouragement to sacrifice everything before Destruction in two to three years was.

Were you a pukka BK back then, or just on the periphery 'in contact' or perhaps as a child via your mother?
    Are you a pukka BK living in a centre of a bhavan now? This is an important question to help us understand your perspective.
Our experience of how, for example, the BK leadership handled the child sex abuse controversy, various suicides, various crimes (including financial and violent ones), the encouragement of visa frauds, the court case to destroy this website by a leader that had had secret marriage and relationships supported by the Dadis and so on, over decades, the sex, the center-in-charges exploiting the system for luxuries etc ... suggests the opposite.

It is my opinion that the "not looking at others" ... not looking at faults in the sytem/not asking and not answering difficult questions ... is a good way of hiding or distracting the continuum of such events.

I asked you fairly about your status or exposure within BKism, eg how close to center-in-charges or Seniors have you been, how involved you are? I suggest that if you had been, you would know of the constant stream of problems from BKs splitting up families and marriages, to petty issues at centres. Ditto about the pressures to give money.

I don't want to attack you but, at the same time, you have to see and accept the reality of what we have seen and experienced as being part of the whole.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by vlakshmi
I am consistent from 1999 because I am focused on building up myself. I am in good terms with sister-in-charge, and stay near to a Center, and travel 10 km to my clinic daily.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 06 May 2019
by CS1979
After reading a few replies (which I thought will never come and this incident will be given a pass), I am happy to see the steadfastness in logic, language, lament, listening ability of ex-l to issues of mine and seen ex-l thoughts across other posts (as I saw after posting mine). There are many others who are great guides in this forum to saving those exiting. But I find Lakshmi in a lame defense of those that practice the art deceptively. True, not all are cheats – but I had to come across with one. Luck or destiny.

What would Lakshmi or any other BK do to me in a similar situation as I fell unconscious? Get me well and I will say thank you and be friends perhaps. That didn’t happen. And the story I narrated is confirming to the fact that, “seek a helpless individual – weak at that moment – ready to accept help - help the person - and if the individual is generous - do more – accept what comes your way". If this doctrine is followed, then the world will be good. Now trying to get this individual to be close in the neighborhood, like a cow to be milked, is conniving and cunning.

It also happens in a non-BK setup. But the problem then is such people don’t put up symbols and OM artifacts etc all over the home. If they had put across and Jesus photo – I will attribute it as Christian sly or if it any other motif it will be that religion or denomination. Perhaps I would have written the same story in other forum or websites. But I did seek some solution and came across this site, and proved timely and very useful.

Having seen personally how people behave and operate I know for sure there is a huge deception being played out across nations by different groups etc. Pointedly and relevantly, my narration starts and stops at the reference points as I have experienced. Let’s keep karma and poems and proverbs away.

As I wrote about the attempt by the person who may get in touch with me. It did happen - their number was blocked and I could see the attempts. Perhaps more to know if I am ill or not, and once again to assure of taking me to a doctor etc. Will not yield anymore.

Now I know I have some people to run to – like Lakshmi ... but then will it be - from the frying pan into the fire or from the frying pan – no frying – back to the fridge!!!

I want to laugh lots, but how ... let me try. My pain in jaw though will not allow that too now, let me shed some tears of joy – I have friends though I may not meet – but at least will understand.

Hari OM. Radhe Krishna. Jai Shri Ram.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by Pink Panther
Dear CS1979,

I appreciated your summarised experience with those people. It rings so very true. There is much within BKism which is informed by the culture within Indian society, ie the BKs do not try to change that culture, they use it to serve their own purposes. Same product, different packaging.

Of course, any group will say the crimes and misdemeanours of individuals do not represent the teachings. But unless those teachings also insist such individuals are banned or suspended, their donations refused etc etc, and those teachings implemented, the BKs are equally culpable, beneficiaries of that immorality.

For example, in this example, this Karishma benefits from her cunning and devious behaviour and, from her gains. She gives some to the BKs, she is able to spend more time with the BKs rather than time spent earning her own income, she gains respect or position within the BK community through donations, familiarity and attendance (ingratiation) etc, because the BKs are quite craven at privileging those who donate more. We know that the BKs are unconcerned about such things as the means by which money is earned. They often say that such things done for "Baba’s service" is actually good because the other person will have wasted their money or energy on ”non-pure” things so it is purifying the money or the action. It is akin to Orwellian doublethink.
vlakshmi wrote:I have a formula which helps me to stay balanced:
If someone doesn't practice what is taught in the BK-system, it is his choice and his lose.
If someone does practice what is taught in the BK-system, it is his choice and his gain.

That is more true than you realise. Flip it.
    If someone doesn't follow basic ethics and social mores, the religion they say they belong to loses validity.
    If someone follows basic ethics and social mores, the religion they say they belong to gains validity.
Take it to the next step.

All religions are comprised of good people and also dickheads and other assorted criminals, petty and majoy.

Conclusion, just be a good person, the rest is secondary.

* (I refer you to the Buddhist Kalama Sutra, where the Kalama clan, whose village is at an intersection of popular routes and is visited by many passing ”spiritual teachers", ask the Buddha how they should discriminate between the various teachings promoted to these teachers).

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979
Pink Panther and other ex-BK who guide the exit,

You are one of the pillars in this forum as I read your posts and feel encouraged to be seeking more guidance.
Especially what do you do if they want me to be friendly with them again? I have not severed the connections. Just trying to distance now peacefully and not letting them know that I will be wanting to be away from them.

I want to know what are the tricks and charms they will employ to see I am back with them. I am sure the Sister in law who is a senior BK will be guiding on the steps to take. What could be the steps or process? Revert Urgently as I need to know the collective brains here and match it with those from the BK. AVOID contact is easy to say. But then I want a sense of completion with a calm mind in authority, as I step far away from this quagmire.

Need some quick responses to help me.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by vlakshmi
Hi CS1979

I appreciate what you wrote about me. I may look different because my perspective is different. I will explain:
There is something my grandmother taught me when I was a baby. IT STILL WORKS WONDERS FOR ME:

I was living in a very large family (joint family, as called here in India). One day my grandmother got some sweets from somewhere and thought of eating it after her bathing. After she took her bath and came out, the sweet kept on table was missing:

Now DIFFERENT REACTIONS were emerging in her when she thought of possible culprits.
    1) She felt ANGER when she thought it might have been eaten by the maid. When she asked maid, she said : “I don’t know, but I saw your husband nearby that table where you kept the sweets.”
    2) No ANGER was felt when thought of her husband as the possible culprit. When she checked with her husband, he said: “May be Ammu (my mummy) ate it.”
    3) Then my grandmother FELT JOY in place of anger. And she thought that is the end of the matter.
    4) Then comes the twist — I (aged 4 then) came running to my grandmother and said: “Grandma, what a sweet it was—so tasty!!! I knew you kept it for me.” When my grandmother came to know that it was me, her granddaughter, who stole the sweets, HER JOY BECAME DOUBLED.”
Same incident—different emotions depending on one’s view of people involved in the episode.

This incident taught my grandma a great lesson — it is not incident, nor persons around us who are responsible for our happiness, but it is we ourselves. And she preached this incident to everyone in rest of her life.

Similarly, when you are in an organization, you will meet different people with different sanskars, different backgrounds and different karmic accounts, with each one acting under various factors and forces (discernible and indiscernible) — yet each one learning in different speeds. It is up to you to decide on how you want to view them. You can decide whether to respond to such people or not to respond. If you want to respond, you can decide how—softly by taking up the matter to the person in question or person in charge or violently bringing maximum harm to the organization ... so on.

If it were me in your situation, I would have given more importance to the interest of the group as a whole, rather than caring for only my interest. Because after analysing mainstream religions, I understood many things are not logical in them, hence can’t be from God. BK-teaching — especially its teaching of numberwise rewarding/descending on to the word-drama stage — could not have been guessed by any human being (only the one who stands above the universe can come out with such a unique teaching -- which solves many riddles. It is this teaching that helps me to be balanced and relaxed in all types of situations in my life. Not knowing about such art of living is what is at the root of even celebrities who commit suicide. Kindly google celebrities who committed suicide — they had everything more than we could all imagine — but they did not know the art of managing their mind which comes from teaching from above).

Humans can devise any teaching, but teaching such as this (numberwise) can come only from God. Punishing the organization for the sins of some of its individuals is not in anybody’s best interest. And it is illogical too because an individual is always an individual with freedom to choose to perform virtues or their absence. An individual does not automatically become a robot just because he is in an organization.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979

You did not understand my post. I am not talking about the organization. They can do what pleases them and so the members. You are unique. I never got into the system, so I am an outsider but was being kept as a "useful" resource. My question was to the ex-BKs and their knowledge of how they will lure you back. For that matter, as you said, "me in your place", I ask you what will a BK do to get me back - soft talk, inducement etc ?

My jaw hurts ... perhaps you can cure that than my issues at hand on how to exit the relation peacefully.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by vlakshmi
Hi CS1979

I would suggest: Look for the principle behind the details of what I wrote. It will help you not only in situations like that you narrated but also in other situations too.

From today I will keep you in my meditation. In my linked state with Heavenly Father, I will also send sakash (positive vibrations) through our Heavenly Father so that everything connected with you go well.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by CS1979

I have said - you make sense, you are true at heart and mind in sincere well-wishing for others. Rare to find such who has no plans to take advantage. But my request was clear. How to wield off any solicitation or request to meet or take help when I am in not interested? Now you are praying for me. I will take it at face value. How will I know? Many are praying for me. If good happens is it attributable to you alone.

Again to bring to focus if yours is one way to suggest BK is good so I could be soft on the person contacting me again, then that is not a solution. I want to know all the ways that a person may come back in conversation etc.

ex-l, pink panther and others any points you have to guide on ways I will be approached and what to do.

Total cut off is easy and want to do slowly.

Re: Left BK after 10 years ... !

PostPosted: 07 May 2019
by Pink Panther
vlakshmi wrote:....When my grandmother came to know that it was me, her granddaughter, who stole the sweets....

So we finally have one fact about you vlakshmi, that you are female. We know that you are allowed to give your own donations and don't get pressured for more, probably because, with those whom the BKs want around, they know that it's ”softly softly catchee monkey”. If you are a doctor of psychiatry as you claim, your social standing is your donation, your presence is an endorsement as much as any words you may say. It all adds to the Public Relations front of the organisation. They will not ask much of you at all other than things that are no real burden, maybe occasionally speaking for them. You won't be asked to clean toilets or told to leave what you are doing to go pick up a Sister from the airport!

Someone like Karishma, that CS1979 describes, probably does not have that social/professional standing in her own right so she relies on her other ”skills” to be validated by the BKs. That is one of the main tools of cults, making the members feel special, valued, belonging.

Nearly all cults I have ever looked at (quite a few on top of the one I was involved with, the BKs) are full of good and well meaning people aiming for self improvement, deeper purpose, and often community of the like minded. That is, each one can be found a level at which they belong. Where clashes happen within organisations like BKs is when there are more candidates for a role than positions, so, especially amongst the hierarchically ambitious, there can be serious ”competition”. That is why often the sevadari BKs who are there doing the hard slog at the lower end of the organisation's tasks are often the most humble and practically spiritual, while the higher ups have all kinds fo political machinations and ulterior motives whirring behind their eyes.
CS1979 wrote: My question was to the ex-BKs and their knowledge of how they will lure you back

As mentioned in different places, they are masterful at creating co-dependency.

Thy depend on income earners to donate wealth, people with skills or muscle to donate skill and muscle, people with time to donate their time and energy, people with standing in society through profession or celebrity to lend their status and celebrity as endorsements .

Now, it seems you have some attraction or relationship with them otherwise you would not be asking. Or maybe you just don't want to hurt their feelings.

My suggestion:
    Bear in mind the games they have already played and that you were being played. And you saw others being "done over” too.
I have a relative who, because he gets lonely, keeps going back to old ”friends” who are really bad company for him. But these old friends just use him, they borrow money that they never pay back, they take his things and, yes, they'll share some drugs with him and get him high, then get him to buy them even more more drugs etc. They’ll get him to make the purchase because they prefer him to take the risk of getting caught.

His emotional vulnerability makes him a target to these people (different people over the years). He pulls himself together for short periods and gets rid of them out of his life, but then lapses again. He is needy, we all are in our own ways, and almost ‘invites’ people to come and take advantange of him just so he can have the companionship.

We all need some ‘love’ and/or validation in our life, and often we will accept artificial love rather than feel lonely.

ex-l has written often abut how the BKs use their meditation and vibrations to create 'intoxication’, then get people to give them things and do things for them, like my relative’s so-called friends. The BKs do not set others free, they never tell a ”student” you have graduated, now go out in the world and live freely as a mature independent human being. Their teaching is that this is not possible, you will have ”karma ” to clear until the very end when only the final destruction and 'Dharm Raj' will finish the process. That is, if you take the bait you are hooked and the teaching is a closed loop, no way out as long as you even half believe it.

And if you have a real problem, in your life, they will drop you.

Get busy with your own life, establish new relationships with regular and more interesting people who share your interests and curiosities so you don't feel you are in need of them for company. Let it go. To ’strategise” about it is to keep it present. Let the present be new, let that episode slip into the past ...
vlakshmi wrote:Because after analysing main-stream religions, I understood many things are not logical in them, hence can’t be from God. BK-teaching — especially its teaching of numberwise rewarding/descending on to the word-drama stage — could not have been guessed by any human being (only the one who stands above the universe can come out with such a unique teaching -- which solves many riddles.

Woah! Not only does this show a real ignorance of other religions and teachings that have ”hierarchies” and levels of attainment, and the most mundane kind of consciousness, that of the "accountant", but it also ignores the many whacko ideas at the heart of the BK God - too many to go into here.

But just one - Baba is the Ocean of Knowledge so we must accept that when he gets things wrong, even crucial or the most fundamental things, it's for a reason beyond human understanding. Yep, logical.