What's pulling me away

Hi proxy. Thanks for the feedback.

Since posting here I have observed some very creative posts and I wondered if there any souls who are either engaged in creative projects that BK students would recognise as Gyan inspired but which at the same time 'talk' to the world we live in today in a manner that every soul can connect with.

I have met many souls who are either engaged in creative projects that BK students would recognise as Gyan inspired but which at the same time 'talk' to the world we live in today in a manner that every soul can connect with. The usual problem is we do not always live close enough geographically to meet in person. A lot of us exchange Private Messages or emails on a daily basis though. I would suggest you look for some souls who seem to be on the same wavelength as you and send them a Private Message. I was lucky enough to meet several people in person, and we visit often and email daily. I hope you can find the same. From that starting point you can open up your horizons and find a full and rewarding spiritual life outwith the confines of the BKWSU.

When I first posted on this site I was a little uncomfortable with the "implication" but with each passing day I am seeing myself more clearly so that in answer to the question"what's pulling me away" I would offer in response - not final nor definitive - a description of the observations I have made and the processes I am undergoing.

Admittedly I have experienced a lot of benefits whilst a student with the BKWSU but I am being pulled away because I no longer have unqustioned belief in ALL of the BKWSU teachings.

I am being pulled away because critical thinking leads me to question the 'fairness' of teaching others without being able to communicate some of the potential pitfalls of the university's teachings/lifestyle - this strikes me as being immoral.

I am being pulled away because I am no longer convinced that BKWSU Gyani life provides the answer to EVERYTHING. And the things I have questions about are too important to be denied.

I am being pulled away because it is irresponsible for an adult to expose a child to such 'radical' ideas as the BKWSU propound.

I am being pulled away because the BKWSU system puts too much power in the hands of individuals without ensuring that there are adequate safeguards against mis-use of such power. This organisational tendency can amount to instututionalised abuse of the weak or those who happen to "upset the wrong person".

Absolutely Classic Post Abrahma Kumar.
Brilliantly worded and so true.

Keep posting! You are an asset to the site and you will help a lot more people than you may imagine. I know for a fact that many more people read the site than those who join the forum or post on it. I know many people who have been BKs for years who have been helped to leave by this site, but have never posted on it. You deserve a medal. Here's one -

Maybe even a badge? No, too much to ask (my little joke)

Much love, and more power to you good soul.

... know many people who have been BKs for years who have been helped to leave by this site, but have never posted on it.

Apologies for incorrectly addressing you as proxy in one of my posts and much appreciation to the facility that this site provides us however I baulk a little at the idea that anything I say could serve in the manner that you described above. It is not my intention at all. I do understand the sentiments you convey in your kind words but if anything at all my engagement here reflects the ongoing evolution of my current stage and I am trying my best to reflect that as honestly and unjudgementally as i can without giving or taking sorrow.

This post is more like a personal conversation being shared in public in an attempt to put myself in the shoes of a BK who might (a) happen across this site and (b) have access to the Sakar Murli point of the 17th to which I referred.

I have been wondering whether my last post on the topic "why am I being pulled away" could really have caused offence to a BK such that even if they came by that post they would be dis-inclined to share the exact words from God's Murli if nothing else. Given that we are all free to do what we want to I do not have a problem with the non-response per se but would it be inappropriate to ask whether as BK's we are 'prepared' only to feel free to 'share' when presented with a 'captive audience' so to speak, whether that be at our centres or at our public programmes. In BK eyes is the mere existence of a site such as this 'devilish'? Does this site represent a degree of independent thinking that dare not be 'tolerated in the eyes of the BKWSU? Or have we all come under the influence of Maya to the extent that we are irredeemable and hence unworthy of your engagement.

Yes I am being a bit provocative but since I came across this site and bacame inclined to post a few thoughts it has been a rewarding experience. No, I do not have to agree with all of the sentiments expressed neither do I feel that my status as a God's child is in anyway threatened. But if all of humanity remained in their individual 'boxes' (however you define that) then how will the Godly task get accomplished. God says that we children are his helpers so why the apparent reluctance to engage 'outside' of the box? Elsewhere on this site I saw expressed the idea that maybe the BKWSU could assign a representative to openly engage with the forum. Is this wholly out of the question?

As I write there is the feeling that some of my questions in this post may be nudging on the issue of the free public dissemination of God's Murli which is an ongoing discussion on this site. Is it a reasonable of any organisation to expect it's participants to assume the role of publicly dissemanting its philosophy whether through without the organisation itself also engaging with other members of the public who might seek to explore those philosophies in a more 'open' manner? I DO NOT MEAN CRITICAL.

For the sake of argument let us discard the BKWSU 'exclusive' insight into the personality of God/Drama/Karma/Soul etc etc etc what would we be left with? Does one have to become a 'fully paid-up' member of organisation before being able to take/share the benefit of its teachings? Can I only share what the BKWSU has to say to the world if there is the prospect that such sharing may lead to the emergence of Baba's children? What of sharing that which is of benefit for the sake of brotherhood only?

Examining the flow of my thoughts I now arrive at a question that I find a little uncomfortable but I will ask it nonetheless. Is the present phase and public manifestation of God's BKWSU indicative of an organisation that is primarily in it's recruitment phase? Will there one day be a so-called laity class associated to the BKWSU? Will The Knowledge offered to such individuals be different?

When we post on a site such as this are we signalling to the world at large and the BKWSU in particular that we are realising that it is all about one's personal journey into and 'out of' spheres of influence - including the influences of our own delusions - and are now seeking insights that are a bit less 'pat'? And if that is the case can a Godly student not engage with us objectively(and when I say us I mean the world).

I have come to realise how sensitive we souls can be when one's life is dedicated to a path that has all the hallmarks of TRUTH etc etc so I hope that i have managed to strike a fair balance between honest sharing, open-minded questioning and above all respect for the work of the God's BKWSU. So if you are a student of that organisation and you feel that you do have something to share that we all can benefit from please do.

Apologies for incorrectly addressing you as proxy in one of my posts

OK. No problem. Just so long as you don't call me "Late for Dinner".

I baulk a little at the idea that anything I say could serve in the manner that you described above. It is not my intention at all.

It is not my intention to persuade BKs to leave the BKWSU if they are happy there. Only I do want to help the ones who are not happy there to move on in their lives.

would it be inappropriate to ask whether as BK's we are 'prepared' only to feel free to 'share' when presented with a 'captive audience' so to speak, whether that be at our centres or at our public programmes.

That would seem to be the case at the moment I would say.

In BK eyes is the mere existence of a site such as this 'devilish'?

My guess would be that is the BKSWU view. Any BKs care to correct me on this?

Does this site represent a degree of independent thinking that dare not be 'tolerated in the eyes of the BKWSU?

Again I would say it does. Any BKs out there care to comment?

No, I do not have to agree with all of the sentiments expressed neither do I feel that my status as a God's child is in anyway threatened.

No, say what you like, ignore what you like, and keep up the good work.

But if all of humanity remained in their individual 'boxes' (however you define that) then how will the Godly task get accomplished.

It won't. We have to acknowledge that we are all Brothers and Sisters, BK or not. By the way Abrahma Kumar, are you a BK? I thought you were "Friends and Family of".

God says that we children are his helpers so why the apparent reluctance to engage 'outside' of the box? Elsewhere on this site I saw expressed the idea that maybe the BKWSU could assign a representative to openly engage with the forum. Is this wholly out of the question?

Would a BK Like to answer this please?

As I write there is the feeling that some of my questions in this post may be nudging on the issue of the free public dissemination of God's Murli which is an ongoing discussion on this site. Is it a reasonable of any organisation to expect it's participants to assume the role of publicly dissemanting its philosophy whether through without the organisation itself also engaging with other members of the public who might seek to explore those philosophies in a more 'open' manner?

How would the Christians feel if only priests were allowed to read the bible? In the dark ages that was the case. Is the BKWSU in the dark ages? What are they afraid of? If Shiva is God then God needs no defense from blasphemers. God is God, and will not be afraid of us. What are the BKWSU hiding in their Murlis? Is it the fact that they are inconsistent and laughable even before they are "edited"?

It won't. We have to acknowledge that we are all Brothers and Sisters, BK or not. By the way Abrahma Kumar, are you a BK? I thought you were "Friends and Family of".

Proy, that seemed to be the category that best fit me at the time I joined the site last year - perhaps I was seeing into the future? I could not really find a category that seemed to fit me exactly so I plumped for that one. If I call myself a BK I feel that I would be sullying the name of that august institution and it's failthful members so I blanche a little at the idea. I will take another look at the categories and ask the ops whether I change my designation. But does it matter? is not it just another label? Why do we have to box ourselves in that limited way. Maybe we need a category called soul.

In the meantime if anyone else reads my posts and gets the feeling that the question is of vital importance then just think that I am a work-in-progress. Maybe the administrators would take pity on my confused state and see some merit in the designation. I hope that this explanation will suffice otherwise I might have to take the plunge and designate myself ex-BK.

Lastly, perhaps I am blinded by my own PR however I always try to avoid dissing the BK's as I would not be here if it weren't for coming across them in my drama. I have no personal knowledge of the other organisations that have a presence on this site so I can not say anything pertinient to them except to ask the ocassional question.

In my experience the BKWSU Murli seems to reveal the personality of God to be one that I somehow recognise but you will notice from my posts that I ask questions and make comment that are not usually asked in the BKWSU gathering. These questions are pertient to my stage while at the same time I hope that my offerings are not too seeped in the BK corporate speak for it has been part of my drama to encounter the BKWSU I can not dismiss that part out of hand.

Signed: AbrahmaKumar (A Work-In-Progress)

But does it matter? is not it just another label? Why do we have to box ourselves in that limited way. Maybe we need a category called soul.

Hi Abrahma Kumar,
No it does not matter, they are just labels. The last time I looked at my soul it did not have a label on it! I am just curious that's all, especially now, in view of your recent post about the Mail article being mentioned at GCH. I think a category called soul would be good. I saw one person, I forget the name, posting under the category of "Not Sure". That is my favourite so far. I am enjoying and being enlightened by your posts, that is what is important to me. You are, IMHO, one of the most interesting and exciting posters here on the forum at the moment. I hope to read more from you, and more about your work in progress. I hope we all see ourselves as works in progress, otherwise how will we listen or learn?
Love,
PROY.

Given that the answer to the question what's pulling me away is similarly a "work-in-progress" there is another question nagging away at my mind and I cannot seen to be able to shake it: What is one left with after taking leave - or even whilst considering taking leave - of a long association with an organisation such as the BKWSU?

When I look around inside me for ideas toward an answer, experiencing the battling that might be because of being in that first flush of a different kind of "newness", I wonder if I have entered that mythical place referred to as "neither here nor there" we hear about in the Murli. Is that the place we become residents of once we get pulled way? Has my consciousness become so adapted to being in the Confluence Age that I will always have a bit of it informing my world view? Does one ever really get totally 'pulled away'? Am I really being pulled away or have I finally grown up to the point where my I can finally drink from my own urn of truth - filied with the nectar of Godly knowledge of course? (Which reminds me that tomorrow is Thursday).

Will I be even more of a 'fraud' were I to find myself unable to avoid incorporating aspects of Gyani culture in my practical life from this point onwards? Or could it be that the "real pseudo-BK" that I have been (a part which no-one else could have played) is starting to unravel? Is this section of my journey a sort of taking leave out of the shadows and stepping into the bright light of what? Confession? In response to which BKdom might tut tut tut sagely; remarking to itself, "Achcha, that Abrahma Kumar was never really one of us. That soul was a Shudra in white kurta pyjamas, disguised all along, but now we can see the soul for what it is? Achcha" But deep inside the soul nicknamed Abrahma Kumar rejoices because it knows that there is more than one cat coming out of the bag (proverbially speaking of course).

Is this the "careless whispering" (heard by the self of course) that accompanies one's leaving? Is 'being pulled away' not at all about leaving but all to do with stepping up to the plate and taking a different swing at life?

I wonder if some merciful trans messenger would go up to the Subtle Region and bring back news of the present condition of my subtle-body? Is it in good shape for the journey to come or is its' light dimming so fast that you can just about hear the tail-end of a prophecy that fortells of a very very very bleak future? Do I have a bit more time to think about this pulling away business? Or has my very own TOO LATE board gone up?

And what about GOD, BKdom? Is that Almighty One you tell us about THE true GOD of all the world or just some figment of my own impure desires that I duped myself into believing you had The Knowledge about?

Ah well, maybe I ought to go buy 900000 leashes just in case there are more cats than we can imagine getting ready to come out of the BKWSU bag ... Oooops I forgot, perhaps I ought to make that 900001 just in case the trance-messenger comes back with news that there just might be an additional space at a squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze ... and though that version would not at all fit in with what we are taught there is a persistent whisper that pounds or dollars could do the trick ... But I'd be completely mad to think that God needs me to take leave of my senses in order to get an air-conditioned seat to Heaven, wouldn't I. Or does He?

Om Shanti

P.S. Just a bit of off-the-cuff fun so please do not take life so seriously ... It's just little old me not knowing what's pulling me away ... Could it be Maya? Ah well?

Abrahma Kumar aka Angad the Unshakeable

Ah, the sweet sanctuary of one's very own topic. What a blessed relief.

Since I was last here nattering on to no-one in particular I have been reading and posting on some of the topics and generally beginning to feel more comfortable with the idea of an online community and a virtual identity.

The question of whether or not this site is impartial has occupied my mind with a disturbing tenacity for the past 36 hours. Together with that I have just read this site's inclusion of an article run in a UK National newspaper article under the headline: Bisexual Priestess Bankrolls Brahma Kumaris, denounced as some sort of act of collusion with a

scaremongering, right wing, xenophobic newspaper. ... often has headlines along the lines of 'whatever it is, it's a bloody disgrace'

The article has been on this site for some weeks and I never read it thinking or feeling that in so doing I was perpetuating either scaremongering, right wing politics, xenophobia or breaking Shrimat by reading agyani material (in this instance newspapers).

I prefer to wonder at just who it is advising the senior members of the BKWSU in the conduct of their worldly dealings?
Is the BKWSU ready to see itself and the public conduct of its senior representatives in the wider world perspective?
What instructions have students of the BKWSU, who have access to public platforms from which the organisations philosophy is delivered, been given with regards to responding to public questiuons that may arise from such articles?

I don't know. Do you? What's pulling me away?

I prefer to wonder at just who it is advising the senior members of the BKWSU in the conduct of their worldly dealings?
Is the BKWSU ready to see itself and the public conduct of its senior representatives in the wider world perspective?

I am sorry Robin and Mrs Gibb but I am sure that you have faced worse ridicule and criticism than I could ever chuck up in the air and could not give a damn, but I had no idea that BKs Jayanti and Janki were [metaphorically] getting into bed with bi-sexual druid priestesses. May be they are trying to sex up BK Raja Yoga for the sake of PR ...

Frankly, I thought the BKWSU surrendering to Lynne Franks and allowing her to act out as a BK in white with a gold Ba-ba-badge interviewing herself for JAM was a thousand times worse.

Sorry to gatecrash your thread but I agree entire. Here we are, no more and no less than the little kid shouting out that the Emperor has got no clothes on.

Abrahma Kumar aka Angad the Unshakeable

By the way, in spite of having read so many of your posts I am unable to understand whether you are 'A Brahma Kumar' or 'Abrahma Kumar'???? Because if we read your name in Hindi then 'Abrahma Kumar' means 'non-BK' but you seem to be at ease with BKs and ShivBaba
So please throw some light on the significance of that first letter 'A' in your name.
Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

No problem Ex-I. Having just been elsewhere on the forum and posted a response I felt the need to return to this thread (yes) as a sort of sanctuary. So much is going on in the forum. The range of topic is vast and the expression of each soul so individualistic that it can be truly dizzying sometimes.

I smiled at your

Sorry to gatecrash your thread

on 2 counts. The feedback was appreciated. Secondly, it really is true that this thread is the place i come to with the feeling that 'no-one is watching'. It is my sort of BrahmaKumaris.Info cyber-refuge. Engaging with other's posts can be energising and depleting at one and the same time, but nothing like using one's time in a worthwhile way, eh?

Happened across a BK post on the 'I get in or pull him out' topic to which some observation/questions arouse in my mind. I am choosing to express them here rather than on that thread because i want to 'churn' out aloud. It started

Being a BK, I would say that the ultimate aim of a soul who wants to remain as a BK is to have all relationship with GOD. i.e. in BK language- Shiv Baba. Then there is no question of any relation ship with a human soul ...

After studying Raja Yoga for the time that I have, now reading the above I find it to be rather dispassionate and absolute - in terms of content and manner of delivery. It might well be true however the whole kit and kaboodle can only be 'verified' by teachings of the BKWSU! The ending too contains resonances of the same.

In your case I believe that you have attended the 7 day course and COMPLETELY understood this new knowledge?. Then you can take your own decision by considering the various replies. Ultimately it it YOUR OWN LIFE

But what if one does have questions on hearing that

basic lesson given to any soul who knowingly or unknowingly have a part to play similar to your case

If this new knowledge has not been completely revealed to us yet then how can there be any question of COMPLETELY understanding the basic lesson?

Can any of the assertions made in the BK post be verified without recourse to the BKWSU?

And that phrase "new knowledge" what are we to make of it? We are told that this new knowledge will disappear. When will this be? Will I wake up one day and hear from the BKWSU that there will be no more Murli classes because 'I have received all The Knowledge'?
How long will God require ONLY the BK's to have unfettered access to HIS teachings?

For how much longer will Shiva require ONLY BK souls to return to Him EVERYTHING that HE gave them?

If a BK is a BK then why would there be any thought of NOT remaining a BK, let alone NOT realising that he/she/the soul wants to have all relationships with God ie in BK language- Shiv Baba?

Yes, I know that in our BKWSU world hearing those words makes 'sense' but the opening seems so loaded with 'suggestion'. Further on it was said:

Then there is no question of any relation ship with a human soul ...

Again yes, in our BKWSU hearing those words makes 'sense' but the remark has not been qualified i.e. What sort of relationships are being referred to. Is it ALL relationships or only certain kinds of relationships? Or don't those questions arise so early in the course?

Is becoming a BK is a logical thing? No, i hear the chorus of BK responses (and i agree with them). But is it a spiritual thing?

By the end of the 7-Day course it would have been intimated to a soul that they belong to a special brand of souls, destined for all time to come to the understanding of God, drama and the self as a soul via the teachings of the BKWSU. Really?

I wonder if that response was written by a 'surrendered soul'?

And this is the basic lesson so imagine what secrets will be revealed by the time we get to the advanced lessons.[/quote]

Hi Arjun,

Om Shanti,

'A Brahma Kumar' or 'Abrahma Kumar'???? Because if we read your name in Hindi then 'Abrahma Kumar' means 'non-BK' but you seem to be at ease with BKs and ShivBaba
So please throw some light on the significance of that first letter 'A' in your name

I am smiling to myself - in camaraderie I assure you - however I am afraid that for the time being you will have to take my smile as 'light' because Arjun, even I do not know the significance or the answer to the question you ask. So how can i answer you?

I observe the tendency that we human souls have of relating things - even a sequence of letters in cyberspace: A B R A H M A - to an acquired experience out in the word.

Ah well another one of my posts that doesn't make much sense.

IBY

Dear Abrahmakumar,
Thanks for the reply. I had just passed by this section (where I normally don't get time to step) and saw your post.

Ah well another one of my posts that doesn't make much sense.

I don't think so. Keep posting.
Good luck and best wishes,
OGS,
Arjun

Am finding the "I get in or pull him out" thread very interesting but here in this little bolt-hole is where the 'churning' can continue. So far one might classify the responses to jannisder's post as either straight 'Gyani' responses or Soul-consciously informed human empathy.

(P.S. I just invented the second category so it is, as I am, a work-in-progress. In other words do not ask me what Soul-consciously informed human empathy means ). In addition to which the thread has also initiated discussion of Gyan between souls-in-the-know.)

It looks as though the author of the thread has posted a direct quote from a Murli - however a question seeking clarification has been asked and the forum awaits a response.

The forum also awaits a response from the author of the thread to questions embued with what i have decided to call Soul-consciously informed human empathy . Some of the questions that I have taken the liberty to label in this second category of responses are: Can you identify your deepest fear; Losing him ?; Getting into the BKs ? ; Afraid of him ? Afraid of God ? how long has he been a BK, and for how long have you known each other?

The Gyani responses range from appraising us of the "basic lesson given to any soul who knowingly or unknowingly have a part to play similar to your case" to direct Murli quotes, legitimised I suppose because the circumstances in the thread relate, as well, to a soul who has taken BKWSU Godly knowledge (cannot forget that now can we).

To cut a long story short, or would that be to turn a mountain into a mustard seed, one could ask whether a preponderance/misinterpretation or innapropriate application of
Gyan hinders one from developing the social skills necessary to engage successfully in a world in which souls may want to relate to each other on the basis of soul conscious human empathy rather than an apptitude for God's Murli points? Or perhaps a mixture of soul conscious human empathy AND an appreciation for God's Murli points administered wisely?

Within the definition of Soul-consciousness human empathy I do include the teachings attributed to Shiva, BapDada, Avyakt BapDada.

Om Shanti