Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

Whole thing sounds like a bunch of people wanting to escape life and responsibility and opting for the easy way out instead of doing something really constructive.

Could you elaborate your views on this ? Is this what he is ?

I have heard such remarks a few times, even in Madhuban when tourists and visitors were given guided tours, but have not given it really any real thought until raised now. There were some BKs I met who had many skills which they had acquired over time in BKdom, such as IT, organisational, or artistic ones, but it is just hard to put it down on a resume when looking for a lokik (worldly) job, so they just ended stuck with staying in the BKs as they couldn't find a way out and no-one could employ them.

However, I have also heard that the world benefactor duties of the BKs is praiseworthy, so is that not constructive enough.

Could be a start of a new thread (Is BK life an easy life out ?)

I'll try to elaborate Bansy, I just wish you could write it down for me, you do so well in your posts with great insight.

Is the BK path easy? Of course not, it is an extremely difficult one. But to people who feel lost and out of control and who are drowning, it is easier to put your hand out and have someone else promise you everything you could ever want, to think for you and give you all the answers you want to hear, than to do some really deep hard soul searching, find the answers yourself to who and what you really are, look at all the things you have done in life; and come to terms with them. A form of escapism.

Of course we need support, help and guidance in order to do this, (some of us more than others) but I firmly believe the answers are inside of us. Where we may need help in being able finding the answers, we really don't have to look too far. Take it from someone who avoided it for many years. True soul searching is an extremely difficult thing to do and then what is even harder once you see who you really are (good and bad) is to take the action you need to. To do this then demands you be responsible. You cant escape it.

There is no wonderful intoxicating organisation to 'save' you and tell you that you only have to turn your back on everything and everyone then you will fly in the Golden Age. That's exactly what people who are running want to hear. It is so much easier than the other. Only problem is, it doesn't solve anything. Only the answers within and the addressing of those answers is the only way to come to terms and to really grow. So I was meaning in a more psycological sense than anything.

My partner is an alcoholic. AA worked for him for 6 months until he found the BKs. He stopped going to AA. The centre gave him an excuse why he did not need to go anymore, a great place for him to hide from all his repressed childhood traumas and genetic alcoholism. Even dealing with a relationship that is dying, and he truly does love me with all his heart, is easier than for him to take the harder road of therapy, self examination, humility and addressing his real deep seated issues. That is what he is afraid of, because he will feel intense pain.

What he doesn't realise, once he stops being scare of this issues and face things, healing begins and there is a contentment and peace you thought was unattainable. This is why he went back to the BKs after we had been together for a while. When someone feels safe and starts to relax, everything they have suppressed and buried starts to rise. They are in a position to deal with it but he obviously did not want to and took the easy way out to look for someone else to make it all better for him. He did not have to put in the hard yards to mend himself.

There I agree with Mitra, human souls cannot heal another human soul. Probably not the way she meant it, but applicable here. The hard life of a BK and the cost of that path is easier to deal with than the real issues. Just not as effective.

8) May be attachment and even hatred arises because of Past life Karmic Accounts.

* Blessing: ...
* Slogan: ...

So, Mitra, you are saying that the BKWSU never does anything wrong, does not tear families apart, is never the cause of others suffering and no one in the BKWSU transfers their attachment to the Dadis, for example? Its not exactly true is it?

I am not sure that there is a Murli point to support, "By Loving the Supreme Soul, a Soul will be automatically loving every human souls."

I note this appears the first time you have actually quoted a Murli but you have quoted the bit that God Shiva did not say.

You have been quite silent about the revelations, and historical revision, of the early part of the Yuga.

Hi, everybody happy Satguruwar, I still offer flowers to Baba on this day, under the auspicious omens of Jupiter, God of wisdom, may he always infuse his in our minds!

I am saying this whilst congratulating myself with DI about the clear and sharp intellect she has and through which she can see what's going on in her life and her husband's. Nothing more to add, except a gift of empathy for the pain you feel when facts show you are n.2 or worse and that your partner has taken u for granted and assumes that no matter what he does, u'll always be there for him, supplying the relationship with all the qualities and fuel it needs to go on, whilst he doesn't invest even a small share of compassion. Karuna ...

Sisters at the center should really pull his ears for this. Do they know, by the way, you are facing a crisis, with your mum's cancer? "Charity begins at home", Baba says, so, your guy is very disobedient in many ways, and mischevious. Too bad I am not his center in charge teacher, because he would need being reminded of many relevant Murli points . As a BK he's supposed to have some discrimination and judging power to see what the priorities are, even in his timetable, feel the pulse of the situation. By the way, he's being a bad example, bad publicity for the BKs. But I realized that you cannot ask a cripple to run.

If his store is empty, what can he give ? The problem is, he should be filling himself with love and power, in meditation, be overflowing, give, so, does the pipeline between him and Baba have a big leakage or what? He should support you practically, and even the center should do it, at least subtly!What are they there for, eating and sleeping and bla bla like parrots? Did they know what's going on in your household when they asked him to drive around those "holy" Brothers?

Anyway, these sorts of behaviours are quite common at centers, really selfish, only the outside is plated with a very thin gold foil. And him being an alcholist, of course, cannot "feel" any thing or put himself in your shoes. I once had a relationship with a partner like that, who was always off helping, soothing and advising needing friends, probably drinking with them!!. But no time for me. Typically, whenever anybody else snapped his finger, he would stand up and run. This his how he got a pan fool of spinach I just cooked, thrown at his face! And I don't regret it, I shoul have done that earlier and joined Al-Anon earlier to open my eyes about those games!

I realized, through Al-Anon help, that users can sense weak points of Alcholists (which often can become pleasers) and utilize them at their own will. They make good Zombies, and BKs centers also need an army of those. If u are a fair, correct person, you won't stand a chance, their playings different, the rule is mutual munipulation, very unhealthy. BKs have the guts to ask and command, no matter the circumstance. Because "God comes first", and the holy family/sect. The rest are just lemons to be squeezed and converted, shudras (genarally speaking, OK, some BK teachers are wonderful!!).

So, you are the only real Shakti in the picture I see, Durga riding the lion! Congratulations, try not to take sorrow in!! Everybody as a part in the Drama, his, is a lousy one. And the BKs around him ... don't even ask!!

Jannis, you got many beautiful, helpful mails that will compensate for all the papers flying around your house. I read about the stories of you chasing after your friend with copies of Murlis, etc.. It felt as if you were playing judges an attorneys in a court room. Can you step back and see it as a "detached observer" and maybe laugh about it? Probably, the more you insist playing the "prosecutor" and run after him with evidence material ( BK or ex-BK witnesses from the Forum, videos, posts from the Forum, files, copies of documents..), the more he'll feel cornered and judged and he'll want to escape.

He feels irritated, an confused, he has a position to defend and you are wrestling, subtly. I hope you'll get sick of playing the "rescuer" and your self esteem will soon rescue you. You deserve peace and happiness and someone who really loves you. Have you considered the possibility that he's not your soul mate, but just a tough painful lesson life is teaching you in order for you to become better and stronger, and he's just a temporary teacher crossing your path?

I found it very helpful to learn in Gyan, the point about everybody being an actor and playing his part in Drama. He has his own script and time, if he's not ready, don't try to interfere! Why don't you rebuild your life, fill in the gaps with other people and activities, detox, and leave him alone? You are his second choice escape route, when he's fed up with all the BK stuff, people and atmosphere, he can lay his head on your shoulder and get some tender care for free.

I got gradually fed up with making healthy food and herbal teas for "takers".Why don't you make the experiment of letting him live his BK life on his own,so he can see its beauty/ugliness 100%, without your support? That way, there's a chance that he'll open up his eyes faster, and not pressuring him, will be a good yukti (method)!

Sorry to lecture you, but I also suffered a lot in relationships, so, if my mistakes can help some one else ... Funny, I thought both of you were very young, but reading your early posts, I realized you are not! Love makes us blind, and especially the desire to have someone at all cost is such a trap and a waste of time. We become as vulnerable as children!!

Correct, ex-l.

In our days, definitely I saw many cases of BKs teachers instigated to leave their partners, sent off to the other side of the Globe, to do God's service and avoid temptations. Real Maharatis had to do that and in return they got gold rings, praise and badges. Another common practise was leaving children behind with the "uncooperative", and by then, enraged husband. What to do, had no choice, don't won't to become a Draupadi and get my clothes stripped off!!

So here comes the pukka BK , in a land where they speak a different tongue, facing suspicious, unwelcoming, belligerant natives with an unfriendly grin on, lance in hand. This is how we gained the title of "brave warriors". SS 's concern for opening more and more centers, at all cost.

But expansion, probably these days can happen without such sacrifices, thanks to the Mega programs, different courses offering Gyan in a yukti yukt form , media and advertising. is not it an improvement, after all, at least from a karmic point of view!

Love - even a Platonic one - is not a favourite topic in the Holy University, neither to talk about, nor to practise. It's too .. how to say? "Low!" A waste of time, no Kaliyugi empire has been built on Love. Neither a fund raising organization. The pretence of it being an ingredient, yes, can help.

I remember the famous churnings on the balance " Law/ love", "Love/detachment". Guess who won? It takes a lot of law and detachment, to preserve Ravan's Raj from falling.

It is absolutely impossible to adhere completely to BK teachings without causing pain, sorrow and destruction of things that are of soul value and human value.

Very well put. That was my experience when I was a BK. That is why I feel more human now I have left. I agree with joel - forget the karmic accounts. Don't let yourself get pulled into their way of thinking. Just live and enjoy your life, if you can given your circumstances.

He is so full of Baba, that there is no room for me. I wonder if I am more to him than just an other soul. I want to special to him but I feel sometimes that I am not and that hurts ... In everything he is just perfect ... but too much in love with Baba ... I can never compare with that.

Yes, I am ashamed to say that is what I was like as a BK. That is the way my wife had to live with me. I am human again now, but you are right, that is the way the BKs teach you to be. Irresponsible and uncaring. They teach you to emotionally abandon your family.

This is the direction, I am sad to say, it sounds like your partners may be going.

Yes, sadly, it looks that way to me too. Though, as I said, I was that way once, and I have now left the land of the living dead. I lead a normal happy life now, unafraid of real human intimacy with my family.

The Fundamental point of knowledge about the time of death is that a soul should leave its body while remembering the Supreme Soul. To accomplish this aim, it is said to remember your Father time to time and create a character that you will remember only him and no body else.

There is nothing wrong in loving a soul. But that soul is NOT your guide. So what i meant is that loving a soul should not divert you attention from Supreme Soul. I know that this is a very difficult situation. It is not at all easy. But by balancing the life one can accomplish this aim.

Problems in families arises because of the non-balanced approach.

Regarding the early history period, ex-l, I am sorry to say that i have not got any information. But i will contact you as soon as i get it.

IBHS
MITRA

Problems in families arises because of the non balanced approach. Regarding the early history period, ex-l iam sorry to say that I did not get any information. But I will contact you as soon as I get it.

"Non-balanced" by whom?

Its is clear that the path of the Brahma-kumaris has caused deep divisions and strife in families from the very beginning of the Yugya until this day in every country it has expanded to. Whilst advertising itself as "The Brahmin Family" and "The Family Path", it clearly destroys other people's family. Sometimes at great expense whether monetary or in the lives of one of the partner.

Let's be frank, this is acceptable and to be expected. BKs believe themselves to be the faultless Pandavs at the time of the Mahabharata. Any pain is the fault of individual that is being hurt.

• But what checks can the BKWSU put in place to ensure that families, especially where there are children involved, are not harmed in this manner?

• Should individuals not wait until they are free of responsibilities or be given permission by their partners and family, as it was in the beginning?

• Given that it is aware of this pattern, should the BKWSU not inform families of the likely effects of one partner starting on path?

What is clear from the history is that the BKWSU has been in a panic about the End of the World from WWII onwards. Under such imaginary pressure ANYTHING is permissible. WWII was not Destruction, nor was 1950, nor was 1976 etc but although these periods families have been torn apart and the BKWSU accepts no responsibility ... even though it has clearly misinterpreted and manipulated the teachings to suit.

Does that seem right to you?

There is nothing wrong in loving a soul. But that soul is NOT your guide. So what I meant is that loving a soul should not divert you attention from Supreme Soul. I know that this is a very difficult situation. It is not at all easy. But by balancing the life one can accomplish this aim. Problems in families arises because of the non-balanced approach.

Mitra Bhai, with all the love that my heart can muster, as a Brother soul i ask you to look again at what you have written about the BKWSU teachings above.

We talk about balance but is it balance, Mitra Bhai? We are asked to give ALL our love to One so as to be able to love all others as Brothers. That is not balance to my mind Mitra. That is instigating 100% imbalance and then, once firmly established in that corrupted consciousness, proceeding to 'love' the world from that jaundiced viewpoint.

Mitra Bhai, I really respect all the BKWSU as taught me however by divesting me of what is a natural way of human interaction and calling it balance seems fraudulent.

Our teachings 'fix' us firmly in an unbalanced state of consciousness and then somehow seek to dress that up as a desirable/balanced perspective. How can it be anything other than the imposition of a belief that is not supported by any evidence except that once one arrives at this detached and loving state all of us become Brothers under the control of a system that we cannot see the full reason of.

So Mitra Bhai i do not feel that it is balance at all. I see this as a way of 'fixing souls at an extreme polarity and then coercing them (and we coerce ouselves) to see that as the balanced standpoint'. A standpoint from whch the entire world history and geography is perceived. Yes there is benefit in the concept of Brotherhood of Mankind but the BKWSU teachings seem to have a bit missing.

I do thank you for your interactions on the forum. Much love

Om Shanti
AbeK

Problems in families arises because of the non-balanced approach.

My own experience was that my problems arose because the BKs tried to drive a wedge between us and split us up.

• Should individuals not wait until they are free of responsibilities or be given permission by their partners and family, as it was in the beginning?

I did not know it was that way in the beginning. I know it is that way in the Buddhists. If you want to become a Buddhist monk or nun you have to be free of debt or family responsibilities. Certainly if you are married you are not allowed to become a Buddhist monk or nun. This does seem to be a more responsible way to behave. Add to that the fact that an ordinary BK is similar to a monk or a nun in any other religion. A married person would be welcomed as a lay Buddhist.

I once worked for a family of Catholics. One young man had a psychotic episode in which he thought he met God. He went to the Catholic priests and said he wanted to become a monk or a priest, anything. He felt a calling from God. The priests saw his family and said they could never accept him, and that he should be seeing a doctor.

I am neither a Buddhist nor a Catholic and, frankly, I don't have much time for organised religion at all now. But the BKs do seem to behave in a way that would be unacceptably irresponsible in mainstream religion. Hindu scholars come forward please. Is a Hindu man not supposed to bring up his family first, then retire to live a spiritual life?

I once worked for a family of Catholics. One young man had a psychotic episode in which he thought he met God. He went to the Catholic priests and said he wanted to become a monk or a priest, anything. He felt a calling from God. The priests saw his family and said they could never accept him, and that he should be seeing a doctor.

The BKWSU would willing embrace him and feed his psychosis, no questions asked. I have seen it with my own eyes.

In fact, the BKWSU practise encourages psychoses. If the BKWSU were honest, they would allow an external scientific review of how many of their members, especially in the West, have psychotic episodes. I would guess it is extremely high.

If psychosis, a mental state often described as involving a "loss of contact with reality", is indeed a required experience on the BKWSU path, then it should be justified (e.g. the breakdown of the old personality to make way for the new) and the experience formally managed.

It is and has been managed up until now BUT only for a minority few, e.g. VIP BKs and centers-in-charge. Would I be wrong to state that BKs severe psychotic episodes or breakdowns are managed but done in an unspoken, merely whispered manner, e.g. some Brother gets shipped off to Global Retreat, some Sister is promoted sideways to a small center (Jayanti's Richmond Center in the old days), another leading light is given permission to go back to the lokiks for a break or promoted to Madhuban if it looks really bad.

Am I wrong to say if you are a no name, no money BK ... tough. Its your karma. I am thinking of specific incidents I know about above. If others can add to this, please do.

In my opinion, although the BKWSU wishes to rip off the cream of lokik family's members, children or spouses; they are quick to dump back any 'reject' or 'rejective' product or those that bring too many problems.

Talk about psychosis!

I have now reached a decision. I don't want to play this BK game anymore. I don't want the roller coaster any more. Now he is accusing the boys of being contemptuous, there is your bit of paranoia just for one example. Severe depression, he is showing all the classical signs of clinical depression.

Wants to go on a 4 day retreat, wait for it ... to give up the cigarettes. (How's that for a bit of denial? Go to a health retreat instead!). Just because it is easter and time for family and he can go some other time is besides the point.

This man is in severe pain and torment. He is the prize in a tug of WAR between myself and the BK in charge. Well, I am changing the rules ... no more war games, I decided to when I got told tonight and I quote:

"You have no idea of the power and light I can bring into this house, so what if it is the small sacrifice of our relationship?". Now, how is that for some really disturbed mental processes? He could barely contain himself when he was saying it, eyes were wide-eyed and glazed, arms were going, you know the story.

So, new rules. He supposedly has his own mind. He can make his own decisions, BUT he has to come to a decision what he wants and take the responsibility. He cannot have both. I'll push the BK rules so far down his throat he'll choke. (God forgive me, I am not being very nice but I got to get this off my chest). The BKs do not allow him to have me. He wants chastity? He will get the whole Murli rule book thrown at him if that is his choice. No hypocrisy allowed now in my home. No touching at all, no kissing, no physical contact, polite strangers, separate rooms, legal documents drawn up to protect my house and my kids security, no more financial support from me ... I wont even make him a cup of tea anymore ... no more cake and eat it too.

So, after I made the new rules strictly according to BK-dom doctrine and that is how we would live if that was his decision, he seemed really confused and had thought I was making the decision for him. That is how we would live from now on. Why would he think I was deciding to push him further into the BKs and out of my life? I had to re explain that this is what life would be if he decided he was going to continue on this path. He decided he hasn't definitely made his decision after all. Talk about a very confused man.

After I cooled off a little, I did explain to him how I thought he was severely depressed, and being in that state he probably wasn't in a good place to make life altering decisions. Maybe a trip to the doctors would be in order ... "I am not taking any drugs!" was the reply ... So I guess I got the Scorpio tongue going and said what on earth did he think the feel good meditation thing was? Heard of dopamine??? Addictive stuff. Why do they call adrenaline junkies, junkies? blah blah blah. I think I upset him . Oh, and he also told me he didnt have the time to go to a therapist. There wasn't enough time and his problem was spiritual.

Special thanks to you Proy, I managed to get him to read your post on Katie's thread. I don't know what effect. I also suggested if he ever felt a need to talk to anyone, that this forum was the place, only PM if he wanted, because this was the only place he could find people who understood exactly what he was going through. He at least looked thoughtful.

Ultimately, I have opted out of the war because I love him. If this continues he will most definitely have a total breakdown ... If it is neccessary to explore and immerse himself in the BKs, so do it. He knows he can come to his best friend (me) when it doesn't work, though he knows we will not have a relationship any more. I have told him point blank I do not trust him at all. He cannot continue to be pulled in two opposing directions without the mental and emotional threads snapping. I strongly suggested he goes to the doctors again later, explained to him the process by which anti-depressants work, that they are not a narcotic (unlike the dopamine we release), and if he would consider trying this, at least he may be in a position to make a more rational decision that is going to permanently impact so drastically on his life.

Thanks everyone. This is the only place I can rave, and vent, and try to get my head around this. I am really letting loose. He cant hurt me any more than he has ... I think I am way past the crying stage. I will let him have his freedom if that what it takes. The way it is now, with the BKs and me waging war and him being the prize, can never allow us to have a healthy relationship or any sort of relationship. Its make or break time.

This is in the hands of God now. And I will tell all of you BKs out there that do service by recruiting innocent, lost souls into your so called non-religious, non-political, non-profit, non-cult ... You will go to hell for what you have done to innocent people and their families. for the hatred and animosity you create by what you do (and I never hated anyone before this). For all you have destroyed and all of the pain you have caused, and mainly because you take God's name and use it for egotistical self-satisfying gains with no conscience or responsibility, you will go to hell for it.

Can you tell I am upset? I appologise for offending or upsetting anyone but if you cant tell, I am at my wits end. Any suggestions? There really isnt anything more I can do is there?
No more games. No more BK speak. No more B***s***. I don't know what else I can do.

I wish I had your wife's strength Proy.

Talk about psychosis! ... Oh, and he also told me he didnt have the time to go to a therapist. There wasn't enough time and his problem was spiritual.

I would like to add a interpretation of what he means by "there wasn't enough time".

On the basis of my own experience, I would say this is the "End of the World is coming soon" worm starting to eat into his mind. "Destruction" as they call it, you can use the correct terminology with confidence, is about to come any minute ... by the BK he is right, there is not the time for 2 or 3 years of therapy. Of course, if you read my other posts, they have been having folks running around with their heads cut of since World War II over this one.

The general opinion previous threads have risen is NLP and hypnotherapy are a good way forward. Of course, CBT and anti-depressants is the best treatment for clinical depression. It does take work to find a good therapist. The BK Honeymoon is very like a hypomanic, or manic episode and has not been studied sufficiently. Any therapist ought to be recommended some of the academic papers on the BKs and this website so that they can start to understand.

Your offer of complete cut off is good and financial clarity essential. That is the accurate position a BK should take if they are to "die alive". As a BK, he should not eat food cooked by an impure person like yourself or his children, not subject his vision to impure things like TV, newspapers and movies etc. We can probably even help you with exact Murlis quotes. On the money side, we have seen too many cases where one party wants to donated family wealth to the BKs.

Any suggestions?

Frankly, if you really care, are prepared to gamble everything and have the courage, I would take the fight to the center. It is about time the were woken up to see the effects their practises bring. Anyone can walk in the door between 6 am and 8 am. Or you could at least write to the center-in-charge. Strictly speaking, anyone suffering from mental problems should not be allowed to carry on BK practise. This is the one sensible self-serving principle that they do have, albeit that it is ignored.

I personally would skip Seniors BKs in your area, they are generally too skillful and slippery and experienced in such events and will just use the occasion of your visit to give you the old killer Om Shanti dhristi and peace you out. You can use much of what you have learned about them on this forum.

Dear di
You should go to the centre and tell the people there. You can make your decision then. Be sure there are several people to listen to you, senior or junior, and take a friend with you.
OK, take care
Bansy

You should go to the centre and tell the people there. You can make your decision then. Be sure there are several people to listen to you.

Ha! Bansy had the same thought as I did as I was spellchecking my post above. If what Bansy means is take someone with you to act as a witness, I would agree strongly. Take a Camcorder and let us see the footage afterwards!

Bear in mind that a local center will probably not know about half of the stuff we have exposed here but out of a "duty of care", ought to.