Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

Thanks Bansy and ex-l, if I go to the center now, and you are suggesting I talk to the other people there, not the Senior Sister? I most certainly will do that but I have problems doing that just now at this very point in time because I am too emotional and not going to be a my sharpest intellectually.

His thoughts on the depression is that he is not going to meditation enough and his spirit is suffering ... he will therefore totally resent me if I go and create havok. I lose. If I managed to convince them he was emotionally unstable, and close to breakdown, and therefore not make him welcome, he would resent me. I lose.

I am willing to gamble everything now but want to be very smart. I do not think there is much chance of her peacing me out. I probably would just tell her she was going to hell and the reasons for it. I think I have to leave this up to him. I have made it clear he cannot have both. He must loose the BKs or me. I will give him a little time to make up his mind, but he cannot keep ignoring the situation. I have one girlfriend who knows of the situation, and trust me, she is so incensed no one, would be able to peace her out. She would wipe the floor with them.

I only see 2 ways of this going ...

1) he goes fully BK. I enforce all of the Murli points so it is unbearably unpleasant and he backs down i.e. I win, or he leaves me, then takes so many years to realise what he has done or has a full breakdown, and if that happens I will go to the center and let them have it, plus the media, plus the members for parliment and who ever else I can think of ...
2) or he gets some help for his depression, I may then have some chance of pulling this off and getting him healthy. I will then go to the center and let them have it and I will haunt every new recruitment 7 day course and stand on the footpath with information sheets and hand them out to every person that comes near.

What do you think? I cant put myself in the position where he will see me as the enemy, the person that stops him from spiritual enlightement. He will really be fed that i am Maya and believe it. I never was good at chess.

sorry ex-i, was posting.

When I do go, I will take my friend and at least a hidden voice recorder, though I would love a full scale tv crew!!!! You good people here will be the first to see it. Just gotta figure out the right time. I will get ideas from the forum in the meantime and work out exactly what I want to say. If you like, give me your 2 cents worth and I'll say it too.

You are so right, all the others have a right to know what is going on. I have a duty of care to disclose this to them and I will. Just do not want to jepodise what tiny slither of hope I have of saving us. The time will come. A doomsday in a different form. They have hurt my family.

Hi di and hello to to the forum family. Been a bit busy in other places on the forum but when i was last here on the 27th feb Di shared:

Well, my good people with beautiful souls ... YOU are the reason we have survived this. YOUR support and guidance is what has kept us intact, the children with a complete home, his sanity and my heart. For anyone who reads this that is in this difficulty ... I was very apprehensive of being on this forum but desperate. I needed knowledge and understanding. It has saved everything in my life that I hold dear, and I mean SAVED. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and you never know, one day he might pop in and say hi. I will always be here, roaming in the backgroud and getting to know you from the posts and continuing to learn. Take care, say hi occasionally. And a HUGE hug to J. I wish I could literally hug all of you. THANK YOU

AbeK Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:47 am
Post subject: Congratulations Di!

Di Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:15 pm Talk about psychosis! I have now reached a decision. I don't want to play this BK game anymore. I don't want the roller coaster any more ...

Di, I thought everything was going well and to read this now is to witness a slap of rebuke in the face of on unsuspecting child. Damn! it must be a sickener! So stay strong Sister Strong but supple. Now is the time when you will have to start unearthing and marshalling all your resources.

While i cant subsitiute myself for the Brother in Di's situation, I want to announce that I am right now in the form filling phase of a process that will see me a therapist. I will keep you updated. Maybe, for all the talk about the Raja Yoga being the "dog's bollocks" of spiritual paths it is really designed to create FOLLOWERS!. With abuse built into every system that the BKWSU has about it. Ah, but it is so subtley done. We do not even realise it. I am glad that he has a chance to read some of the posts. Brother, Brother you are not alone.

And to the Mothership BKWSU, look at the tears and sorrow you are giving to the child of Lord Shiva! Leave Brahma Baba out of it! Now I couldn't give a flying **** if it is in Brahma's name that you are doing this abuse! So, if in your arrogance, you behave this way because Di is not a BK. Then may I remind you that she is a bead on the Rosary of Rudra! She is a child of Lord Shiva! Is this how you treat HIS children?! Is this how the BKWSU defames the The Lord and Master of ALL souls, Lord Shiva?! Innocent children like Jannisder and Di? Tell us please!

And how many other such children are there out there?

Are we to now realise that Shiv Baba, God Himself, is the fallguy in all of this whole heap of crap you teach the world about? Your Ancient Raja Yoga!

Is the soul of Dada Lekhraj the one who you worship! Is that why his picture is all over in the Centres?

Poor Shiv Baba!

Thanks Bansy and ex-l, if I go to the center now, and you are suggesting I talk to the other people there, not the Senior Sister? I most certainly will do that but I have problems doing that just now at this very point in time because I am too emotional and not going to be a my sharpest intellectually.

No, a Senior Sister will be the Zone-in-charge. The center-in-charge will be a junior Sister. In most zones it is a Senior Sister but in some, like Australia, it could be a male. It used to be Charlie "get a real job" Hogg and "Dr Nirmala".

You are right, "meditation more" is their only answer. How old are your kids and how are they taking to all this?

BTW, if this sister-in-charge is a freshly starched sari from India, how are they getting them into the country? I wonder if they are getting special visas as "qualified expert teachers", "Self Management Leadership" consultants or something. Or I wonder if they are registered as a religion, and as such they can bring in "priests". I'd be useful for others here to know.

In my opinion, the Brahma Kumaris will use whatever guise works and we know they have flouted immigration laws before.

The Murli points you talk about, "The Principles", are called the "Maryadas" (mah-ree-ah-daz). He may not have been told about them yet. They normally wait until the hook is in really deep.

Someone will take him aside quietly and have a little chat about things. No sex, no contact with females, washing after a poo, no onions and garlics, no food cooked by "lokiks" - that is you and his mother - getting up at 4 a.m. etc. They may "take the pulse" to see how much he can handle all at once but if he does not accept them, he will be sidelined as an embarrassing second class citizen in there as well ... which is going to work wonders for his self-esteem.

I know this because I have been through and done this.

It all depends. Being labelled as third class citizen, or "sans papier" immigrant, by the KKK worked wonders in my case. It gave me the space and freedom to live my BK life more the way I wanted it, and to pull them off the pedestal and see where they really are at. Lot of pain but quicker realization.

Of course, if Di's husband has the addictive personality, his self esteem doesn't need that treatment. They will crush him more and more, if he hangs in there, even for years trying to be good. Again, I think go to Al-Anon Di and stick to their methods, as AA say in their prayer:

Lord give me the Serenity to accept the things which I cannot change (another person's destiny for instance),
The Courage to change those which I can ( my thinking, behaviour and attitudes, don't play the co-dependent),
And the Wisdom to tell the difference.

Being labelled as third class citizen, or "sans papier" immigrant, by the KKK worked wonders in my case.

I am not passing judgement on individual cases but my hunch is the organization has or is playing with immigrations laws All part of that ambiguity of ... is it a religion ... is it a business ... if it is a charity ... what exactly does it do for anyone else? I have fairly good reasons to guess to sugest they have done "marrige visas".

I suppose the old ones had British Passports via the Empire but I can understand how they move new Sisters into foreign countries.

I am glad for you Abrahma to have come so far and all the best with the support you are now going to undertake. I wish he would read more posts but I only managed to get him to read the one of Proy's about leaving the wives and families. I thought things had settled down as well but it can change in a flash. So it is always dwelling just below the surface. It only takes a scratch. Your post is so to the point and cannot be argued with. Very apt. Thank you.

He denied taking Shrimat previously but then admitted it yesterday. He is very well aware of all the teachings but is so manipulated at this moment that he thinks he is in control and just take on whatever he wants to and discard the rest. Such an insidious disease this is.

Alladin, I will be going to Al-Anon. It is neccessary I think and very good advice. I have actually been saying that particular prayer a lot lately.

ex-l, the 3 boys are 20, 16 and 14. They are his step-children. He has grown children of his own but I am reluctant to speak to them about this. I don't want to put them in a position of torn loyalties. They were living with him when he first went to the BKs before he met me. Only the eldest of mine has a vague idea of what is going on and the BKs. He just shakes his head, and if my partner is 'in a mood', son asks 'what's the matter with the cranky b******** now?" The other two have little idea anything is wrong. Obviously they know something is the matter but I distract them, keep them occupied and am very careful not to discuss anything in earshot of them. I am keeping a very close eye on them and at the moment appear OK.

My partner said the boys are becoming disrespectful to him. They are not. They are 3 of the most polite teenagers you could ever meet. As I said to my partner after he said this ... "they are not, but they don't know how to react to you any more. You have been acting so weird with massive mood swings over the last year. What do you expect?" Typical. Blame everyone else around you and take no responsibility for what you create.

Finally I told mum what was going on here. She said he was totally deranged and suggested the ultimatum of go to a psychotherapist or go altogether, and most definitely sort out the legal aspects.

I was thinking about talking to him about me going in with him one morning to the center and talking to the group about what was actually happening here at home, and putting forward many of the very relevant points and to see what the reaction will be. That way, if he agrees, I may be able to fast track a solution. I guess my concerns are if he is so twisted in his thinking, why would the people in there be any different? They are obviously achieving what they are aiming for, so what would me confronting them actually achieve?

They would have more ammunition about the lokik and Maya, and how doomed all of us outsiders are to use wouldn't they? What ever discrepencies I show him, the failed doomsday predictions etc., the reaction is, "so what, the BKs have had a few small slip ups, it doesn't mean anything". If he is so aware of what is going on, and has been aware of a lot of things before I started mentioning them, and is adamant about so easily dismissing these issues, then surely the others in the centre know as well and have the same attitude. I think the majority of the followers have been going in there for many years. I think I am up pooh creek without a paddle.

He is very, very fragile and not far off breaking point from what I can see. I don't think he can take much more of this. My mother has worked in the primary school system for 35 years. She was horrified when I told her about LVP and luckily was unfamiliar with it in her school. She suggested the P & C association (Parents and Community) would be very interested. They carry a lot of weight in the school systems here.

I would really like to investigate the immigration thing more closely but to be honest I am really struggling to manage and deal with everything I have to do at the moment.

Yes, I suppose thinking their human founder was God for the first 18 years counts as a little slip up ... as with WWII being Destruction.

My mother has worked in the primary school system for 35 years. She was horrified when I told her about LVP and luckily was unfamiliar with it in her school. She suggested the P & C association (Parents and Community) would be very interested. They carry a lot of weight in the school systems here.

I was going to try and write a rough critique of the LVEP programme at some stage, pointing out the surreptitious manner with which they introduce their teachings. I cant promise it in the next few days.

Yes, it would be very courageous and interesting to go into the center and address matters. You will get a real feel of what they are up to. My guess is they will want to do anything but let you come into morning class demanding that you do the course first or stage manage a meeting where you are given holy sweeties etc.

Usually they kind of wait until a big programme or a Senior Sister, a Dadi, comes to the center and then all the troublesome partners are wheeled in to be vibed out by their "power" in an "I told you so way". You would be doing the rest of humanity a service pointing out the reality of the situation to them and showing some emotion.

How did his own children react to the BKs first time around?

I have never discussed this with his own children. All I know is they used to eat meat when he wasn't around, and when they moved out, first visit was to the butcher's shop.

We see very little of his kids, and only occasionally speak. That's the other weird thing. he doesn't call them, the eldest calls once a month and is a darling. The youngest doesn't call at all unless she needs something. I don't understand. My boys and I are inseparable.

Sweet Di,

Now you know what i mean by roller coaster. One moment everything looks OK and go slowly up hill, the next minute it is on the top and drops down with an undescribable scary speed, to finally go slowly up again ...

That is the situation here. How do i cope? To show him the good things of this lokik life. Just to give him a home, a good friend and lots of fun. I did the 7 day course and the advanced course just to get to know what is going on in site the centre. They gave me Dristhi, Tolli, and a meal. They do not see me as a devil but as a Sister ... becaus they do not know what i am up to.

In the meantime i am doing what i have to do. I write letters, collect documents and articles and sent them to ... see PM. You know ... what goes around will come around. I live this double life now but will not be the one to let him down and scare him off. I let others do that for me.

For the first time he read a post from Abrahma Kumar, that hit him hard (in the good sense of the word) ... I was so happy and he even took it with him to read it again. That is all i do. I leave posts and articles lying around for him to see and just wait.

Right now he is doing all kinds of lokik (hate the word) things that make him feel good and i stimulate that to give him all the attention he needs to get even more attracted to it. We hardly talk BK things. Only when he is seeing something (to me) stupid i react and he knows i will. So he is doing more service on me to turn me into a good BK Sister, that means that he is spending more time with me ... so i can do my service on him!!!

Although we do agree on a lot of things (he is a good nice man) his BK thoughts are to me just not done. I do not discuss it with him because i am wrong anyway but i give him painful stabs and change the subject to lokik things to get him confused. It will stay in his mind so he will think about it. That works but goes slow slow slow ...

After a day together i am very tired and my energy is completely drained out. On this forum i load up my battery, do some more design on BKWSU danger alert poster for an email chain and move one to the next day, never know what it will bring me. Sometimes i get all upset, or he gets all upset. We are going down hill on the roller coaster.

Also my crying days are over, at night i cry.

Be strong!

Being a tinydot with myriad wonderful quailites I thought that i'd share something on this topic that might set us off down memory lane (boys pay attention ). In case you don't know it, the opening line is also the title of the song. I am partial to the performance of it done by Percy Sledge some time back. Percy over to you ...

When a man loves a woman,
cannot keep his mind on nothin' else,
He'd change the world for the good thing he's found.
If she is bad, he cannot see it,
She can do no wrong,
Turn his back on his best friend if he put her down.
When a man loves a woman,
He'll spend his very last dime
Tryin' to hold on to what he needs.
He'd give up all his comforts
And sleep out in the rain,
If she said that's the way
It ought to be.
Well, this man loves you, woman.
I gave you everything I have,
Tryin' to hold on to your hot blood long.
Baby, please don't treat me bad.
When a man loves a woman,
Down deep in his soul,
She can bring him such misery.
If she is playin' him for a fool,
He's the last one to know.
Lovin' eyes can never see.
When a man loves a woman
he can do her no wrong,
he can never hug
some other girl.
Yes,When a man loves a woman
I know exactly how he feels,
'Cause baby, baby, you're .
When a man loves a woman....

pls delete ta

pls delete ta

She can bring him such misery.
If she is playin' him for a fool,

This lines are neg thoughts, bro! May the light of Brahmin stars and Jah love protect us from such encounters!

What are u trying to instigate people to do,AK, a communal heart chakra opening?

U know I wanted to open a topic just for songs, but I though it a bit frivolous. Would that be serviceable and accurate??
So, well done u post lyrics!

Take your point Alladin. But maybe the Brothers of the world have to discern which 'woman' is playing which role? And yes, I wanted to share a bit of an open heart chakra experience on the topic. Even if it is just a teeeny weeny bit appropriate - then it would have been worth it. Otherwise I will leave well alone. Take care.