Hi, I am new & would greatly appreciate some guidance

Hello all,

First of all I must sincerely and humbly appologise for my last post. There is no way that I would want to seem to critisize or cause offense to anyone (not that anyone has suggested i have). When I re-read the next day I was not comfortable with the aggressive tone that came across. I wasn't feeling aggressive, just incredibly scared and anxious. The other thing I noticed was it almost sounded like i was critical of someone else and I am just so so sorry. Its not the case. I am not good at rollercoasters and this is taking its toll. Within a week I have had all my present and future dreams, directions, trust and my security removed. Now it appears to have been given back and I am very cautious. Under no circumstances would I even think to offend you good people. You are being my life support and honestly I would not be in the position of hope and intact family if it wasn't for you. You cannot possibly know how much you have given me.

Yesterday morning was his first trip back to the BK center. I was so anxious about what state he would return in after being subject to this again. The Sister there is new and from India and from what i can assess, very, very good at what she does. She must be aware of his turn around ... it is massive ... and I wonder what tactics she will try next. He came home early. He was happy, relaxed, open and most of all connected to me ... relief! When I was preparing some food, I said, sorry, I am not supposed to prepare anything for you, would you like to get it yourself? In a nice and caring manner. His reply was HE would decide what was right for HIM! Grabbed me and kissed me passionately??? How could there be such a massive turn???

So, would you please shed your thoughts on this matter. Arjun, I meant what us lokiks would consider to be a normal, healthy committed relationship, and I understand that some BKs still live with their families, but under those conditions I would not call it committed or healthy - said with the utmost respect to you. Given BKs are taught to serve, to bring their families into the BK (he agrees wholeheartedly I don't fit the bill lol) they are too emotionally detatch etc, and strive to attain spiritual awareness, maintaining a duty of care, is it possible to have what we outsiders call a normal healthy relationship in all aspects and still remain associated with the BKs, go to their teachings, and to pick and choose what is applicable to what you want?

One aspect would appear to totally negate the other, e.g. in the many religions, you can either stay family, or become a priest or nun, both are supported, as long as you embrace the teachings and apply them to your life and your circumstances. There does not appear to be that choice in BK. He is now wanting to fix up the study so he has a place he can meditate every day ... would this mean he prefers to increase time at home without the influence of the Sisters and continue to meditate to help him 'control' his alcoholism? Or is he wanting to increase his meditation to gain more spiritual awareness and be able to serve better? This is so confusing.

We had a great day together, he said i had been so patient and went and fixed several things I had been desperately needing done for months.. (i did not ask for them to be done). He is as caring and involved as anyone could be at the moment with very small moments of withdrawing (? due to soul searching ... or the pull of BK ... or re-evaluating?) He has had problems sleeping the last few days (with exception of last night) unable to settle and obviously doing much deep thinking.

I too think it a bit strange none of the BKs have spoken. Maybe they just think I am a lost cause or just to scarey what I'll say next The video is brilliant! and is one I will definitely show him in a few days.

Dear J, I am following your thread closely and am thinking of you. If I can help at all, please let me know.

Hi Di, thanks agian for your honesty. With reeference to your reassurance that

Under no circumstances would I even think to offend you good people, you are being my life support and honestly I would not be in the position of hope and intact family if it wasn't for you.

I am sure that I can speak for at least one other when I say that your posts have been the very opposite of offensive. You see Di, your engagement with the forum is providing a real-life insight into a broader sphere of BK life that is simply not available to the BK-curious or dare I say the BK-committed.

If you ever did have the time to roam around the forum you WILL get a clear idea of the the sort of communication that the balanced person would seek clarification on. As much as this cyber-space it is still a medium in which one can bump into unabashed spiritual bombardment of one type or another. With a bit of experience one can spot those energies a mile off and depending on 'your' demeanour at the time either avoid altogether or engage with your critical faculties fully alert. Di, you shared that

He is now wanting to fix up the study so he has a place he can meditate every day.... would this mean he prefers to increase time at home without the influence of the Sisters and continue to meditate to help him 'control' his alcoholism? or is he wanting to increase his meditation to gain more spiritual awareness and be able to serve better?

Maybe this is one about which you could exercise the option to sit tight and watch how it develops or as things settle down he may share with you the new direction his spiritual journey is taking. Whatever the reason though there seems to have re-appeared a channel of communication between you that is not WHOLLY BK-coloured - this is a helpful thing.

You may be better positioned than many in such circumstances because the forum provides an avenue for you to get feedback and insights into some of the things your family is going through. On the meditation front one would guess that he will settle more easily into a comfortable adjustment insofar as his association with the centre is concerned if he is able to experience similar benefits from meditating at home as he may have had at the centre. If you can observe his countenance immediately after he has meditated do so. No, I do not mean to spy on him - am sure you wouldn't - but generally, if his meditation was 'good' you may be able to experience him very calm, serene even, and very much happy that he can spread those vibrations in his living space amongst his loved ones.

At this stage I would caution against any exchange of 'drishti' (if this has already discussed on the thread I apologise) but at this early stage in his exploration of a new angle upon his spiritual development that practice (drishti) may be too redolent of his 'at the centre practices with the BK teacher' and may even serve to cast you once more firmly in the role of 'Sister'.

do not know if any of this makes sense ... but for what it's worth it just expresses some of the thoughhts I have as i read bits and pieces of the thread.

P.S Yes Jannisder's thread is also a very interesting one.

Well, everyone, my partner is back on this earth. Issues to deal with, responsibility to look at what he has done, but is BACK. I don't know if this helps anyone ... i asked what was the turning point ... he said he did not know, it was all dream-like ... but it was like someone had given him a massive push and his feet hit the earth with a horrendous thud! smiled and said ... "maybe divine intervention". He is opening up more and more, and each time we talk his face looks like there are little light bulbs being turned on in his head!

He is even now talking of the 12 steps ... so obviously AA is not far from is thoughts. We have touched on the psychic/occult aspects (which he does know about), the aged and ill in the BKs and the lack of care, the suicides and many other things. Not all negative but mostly cold hard facts ... We have quite a path to walk now. Most importantly he says he feels happy, he is warm (and has not meditated yet!).

Regarding meditation: given he went to the BKs due to inability to cope, wanting an easier way out than AA, or just another way to get high ... I don't know, but given that it is an addiction, I do not agree with him continuing. There are other ways to be close to god. This form of meditation (not all) is not beneficial to his circumstances ... there are others. Meditation should be used to benefit, to allow people to face and overcome difficulties, not to hide and get high. All part of the programming/hypnosis/psychic/contolling aspect I suppose. An alcoholic cannot moderate or control his drinking ... he has to abstain. But this I will leave to him.

Now I am at the point of starting to relax and putting my trust back into him. I have now been able to totally stop bombarding him with the information and the ultimatums. Now I just sit until a conversation starts ... and the things I say is based on the information you have given me here. It is time now I back right off, offer my support and understanding and just to be there for him ...

In my case, the only hope I had of keeping my family together was to kick him out. I had no option but to take the risk and be prepared to go through with it. He never got to the front door. He came back to earth with a thump. One way to wake someone up from deep hypnosis I guess. But that was only one half of the equation. Without the information I had i.e. what you have given me; it would have been a lost cause. I had nothing to fight with. You gave me the TRUTH.

Well, my good people with beautiful souls ... YOU are the reason we have survived this. YOUR support and guidance is what has kept us intact, the children with a complete home, his sanity and my heart. For anyone who reads this that is in this difficulty ... I was very apprehensive of being on this forum but desperate. I needed knowledge and understanding. It has saved everything in my life that I hold dear, and I mean SAVED. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and you never know, one day he might pop in and say hi.

I will always be here, roaming in the backgroud and getting to know you from the posts and continuing to learn. Take care, say hi occasionally. And a HUGE hug to J. I wish I could literally hug all of you. THANK YOU

Congratulations Di!

He came back to earth with a thump.

So did I when I came out of the BK "intoxication" as they themselves call it. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. Congratulations and warm wishes.

You made my day!!! Fantastic

Hi Di Thanks for the hugs. Give him a hug from us.

Hi Di Thanks for the hugs. Give him a hug from us.

Yes do.

It is time now I back right off, offer my support and understanding and just to be there for him ...

Yes, look after him now, he will be feeling bruised. All the Best.

This form of meditation (not all) is not beneficial to his circumstances ... there are others. Meditation should be used to benefit, to allow people to face and overcome difficulties, not to hide and get high. All part of the programming/hypnosis/psychic/contolling aspect I suppose.

Good luck with a fresh start at any rate. If he is fighting the demon of drink, the last thing he needs are the demons of the BKWSU on his back, which is a shame because as Arjun tried to point out, there are positive, universal elements to the BK theology, e.g. that we are a soul in a body. Unfortunately, rather than just sticking to the basics of practicising and experiencing this, joining the BKWSU at this point in time opens one's doors to a whole host of other very human and unhuman aspects which they pretend do not exist, e.g. the cultish and psychic elements at the core. I would be afraid that it is not al over yet, the centers tend to keep their hooks in their students.

it is also not as much fun, because in the old days you could go to India and meeting with this holy spook individually, it was really intimate and relaxed. Now it is mass corporate entertainment with riot stick toting security guards. Ask him why God needs riot stick toting security guards to ocntrolthe crowds ... You could also get him to ask his local BKs why, if the BKWSU is so enlightened, do they use violence and barring from to supress groups within their own spiritual family such as the PBKs that are highlighting the changing and revision of their channeled messages and history, and who are trying to live by its original principles?

My criticism of the way the BKWSU has evolved is very much to do with the layers and layers of dishonesty and artifice that followers have to cut their way to, to get to either the Truth, or even just the truth of the BKWSU. What you have here on this forum are some shortcuts and weapons to get to those truths. Despite all the wonderful windowdressing, the cultish and psychic elements ARE the BKWSU. It has strayed from its own true path, which is what the PBKs are trying to say. To a non-BK, the PBKs might be just as irrelevant and mad but to someone in your position, they are a very useful touchstone.

The BK SS and the followers of the BK SS (the Senior Sisters), have corrupted their path. The practise is not meditation or Yoga any more, it psychically opens and leaves open mental doors that allow in these people and their spirits in an uncontrolled, undiscussed manner. To try and translate what I and Arjun are saying, they seem to want to make individuals their devotees and do so by keeping them in a child-like state of mind where they are very susceptible to suggestion and manipulation.

On one hand, the practise is not "meditation" or "Yoga" as he or you would understand them. And even for those of us that have practised it, we are struggling to udnerstand what and where the BKWSU is going because it has almost entirely left the original teachings. It seems to be some sort of psychic transference through the "Dhristi" stare and food etc, rather than an experience of being a soul in a body, which is neutral, universal and comes with no strings attached, the object of their focus are live entities whether humans, dead humans or bodiless spirits. They are very fixed upon the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani - and now the SS - which is actually wrong according to the teachings.

I personally wish that the BK Truth was clear. It would make life much easier. All I can say is that it is not. Arjun and Mr Green are also right to say that the teachings do say it is a family path but this has become not true in the case of the BKWSU. They have torn apart many families in a dishonest and costly fashion to capture souls and make followers. The BKs become their Family and their physical family mere "lokiks" ... lokiks, the word they use, is just equivalent to "dead people". They are the live family, non-BK are in Land of the Dead. I'd be a little worried if their already have their hooks within that it will be very difficult to follow any other practise whichout floating and drifting off into what they are teaching.

Keep half an eye on your children. We had one case where a mother was letting a child go along to "Yoga classes" because they thought it was receiving stretching exercises, rather an intitiation into psychic relationship with a spook.

It is your fate to have become involved in this. I do not know how much sense you can make of this site but it can pre-arm you against much of the BKWSU merely because we can document how wrong and ridiculous it all is. It would very much challenge your personal relationship but it mght be interesting and valuable to at some point have a direct meeting with center-in-charge and discuss with them matters documented on this website. See their response and see if you like them a human beings. Ask them about the re-writing, the 1976 Destruction date, the PBK assults, the cover ups of financial and sex abuse, get them to put a point on where the Dinosaurs existed ... what does your husband thinks of that? Dinosaurs 2,500 years ago? Hold them to an answer.

You will get run around like crazy but if they know that whatever they do or say is going to be documented here it ought keep their tie between their legs.

Di,

I am please that you and your husband and family are now back together in a real sense. I read this thread yesterday for the first time, (I am relatively new here and still catching up) and feel a lot of sympathy for your position, and I admire your courage to stand up for yourself and what you believe in.

I call myself a BK because my experience and relationships with Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba are the central things in my life and greatly helped me, but I have distanced myself for some time from the rat race of institutionalised BKism which contains a lot of the negative traits you mention; and become independent, so I do not know if I count as a BK commenting on this thread – as I noticed some had commented that no BKs had said anything.

I do teach meditation however and if someone in the position of your husband had come to me; wanting to know if cutting off from his family and relationships was the right thing to do, I would have said no; but rather talk to his partner and deal with his issues with dependancy. Its like escapism from the real issues, i.e. his addiction and his relationship with his family to think that you can substitute meditation and cut out your relationships and you will magically feel better. He made a commitment to you, he made that decision and he should honour it. I also don't believe that cutting off someone emotionally is in any way soul conscious or spiritual. Its running away and acting out of fear.

Many BK teachers however, see things as very “black and white” and don’t encourage a mature, spiritual emotional approach; I used to be like that and have changed through my own experiences and with the support of positive BK friends who have loved me unconditionally, and helped me through some tough experiences that I had in childhood that came back to haunt me.

I believe everyone makes different choices, and that trying to make people feel guilty about those choices is unspiritual and totally pointless. I have known BKs who have got married. At the time, I reacted to this and felt almost personally betrayed, and I felt I had somehow failed also to help them; but I understand things differently now. I reacted because of my own fears and insecurities; like I needed them to be "proper BKs" because of my love/attachment/expectations of them, and I wasn’t respecting their choices, and it somehow felt like a threat to my own identity.

I think many BKs, and this includes the top Seniors reactions are because of fear; they do not really understand The Knowledge!! i.e. that everything is accurate and so to accept and love every soul unconditionally! They don't trust souls, God or their own spiritual knowledge. So they try to control people through fear and guilt. The judgement that comes with this fear has a counter productive effect, as we can see from this site. I also know souls who have been distanced and been subject of smear campaigns by the Seniors because basically they encourage people to think for themselves and have self-confidence (heresy!). Last time I looked, God is unconditionally loving and understanding; so I don’t think this is following the Father in any accurate way! However; that means for me that I need to be equally loving to these souls; which I will admit I find challenging ...

So love and hugs to you and your family Di, I wish you all the best in life and I’m sorry you have had to go through all that pain and frustration.

Thank you for your warm welcome Yudhishtira. I only wish that my partner would have had someone like yourself with your grounded views guiding and teaching him. I have meditated in the past ... under the guidance of a Catholic priest no less! He did it in a way that it was not based on any particular domination, but meditation soley for meditation and certainly was not part of the Catholic religion. (Probably very much against what he should have been doing as a RC). A very uplifting and rewarding experience. It so pleasing to hear of a person like yourself who can apply the teachings to their life in this world for the good of all so that it does benefit us and helps us grow spiritually.

So for an update. Things are going quite well, better than i had hoped. While he is still vague and 'off with the fairies' at times, he is questioning. I showed him the thread on the Murlis and the editing as he was asking about this idea. He remains concerned that I go into a site like this so i will get a 'misleading and wrong idea' of what the BKs are all about but is opening up his mind. But bit by bit his mind is beginning to work again. I am still very, very cautious as I think while ever he continues going to this centre he is at risk ... even though he says he is now in control (I've heard that before!).

Ask them about the re-writing, the 1976 Destruction date, the PBK assults, the cover ups of financial and sex abuse, get them to put a point on where the Dinosaurs existed ... what does your husband thinks of that? Dinosaurs 2,500 years ago? Hold them to an answer.

When asked about the dinosaurs he could not give any opinion as he hasn't worked it out yet and instead tried to offshoot into the bible and God making the world in 7 days as an argument. I am not ready to go and speak to the people at the center. My feelings at their abuse of people are too intense and I do not think my upfrontness would be appreciated. I try never to be rude of impolite so I wont put myself in a situation that I could not help but get on my soap box (this is my family at risk) and I will fight for them.

At this stage I would caution against any exchange of 'drishti' (if this has already discussed on the thread I apologise) but at this early stage in his exploration of a new angle upon his spiritual development that practice (drishti) may be too redolent of his 'at the centre practices with the BK teacher' and may even serve to cast you once more firmly in the role of 'Sister'.

No, he has never tried to do 'drishti' with me. I would not allow it as my mind is mine and I do not particularly want anyone else messing around with it (if I want it messed with I can do that all by myself), but he did listen when I voiced my concerns over the use of these practices and the psychic side, and if you open your mind to someone who is so well trained in this area ... how on earth do you expect to be in control when you have left yourself open to this extent? Hopefully, he will limit or stop this practise at the centre. So please Yudhishtira, teach others to have your values and understanding and send them over here! Or better still come over yourself!

Any pain or frustration I have had, though incredibly distressing is nothing compared to what I have read so far in this forum that others have suffered and are suffering ... it helps me to grow and become a better person and soul.

Another aspect I found useful to bring up when re-grounding my partner, was that if he really believed I was lokik and Maya, then he should not remain here with me and the kids. If we was not Maya, then he should not treat us as such. How can he support a institution that programs him to think his family are so evil and encouraged the breakup of this family unit? He denied thinking of me that way ever, but as I pointed out he could not have it both ways. He was embracing all the teachings and behaving accordingly and was RESPONSIBLE for his actions.

I hope I am not too boring and rambling on. Just writing this down in case something may help someone else at some stage. I am not sure if my thoughts are really helpful at all and thank you for bearing with me.

Love the hugs, same back. Hope Jan writes more on her thread soon. I worry about her

Sweet DI

I am fine ... don't worry about me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

OH MY, what a clip, I will definitely show him when the time is right ... WOW. Does it hit some home truths or what! You certainly are getting well armed for battle ... go for it!

I am fine....don't worry about me!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

Thanks Jannisder. I have looked at the clip and I feel sick! The bustards! If that man loves you and you him then I wish you both the happiest life that you want together.

When asked about the dinosaurs he could not give any opinion as he hasn't worked it out yet and instead tried to offshoot into the bible and God making the world in 7 days as an argument. I am not ready to go and speak to the people at the center. My feelings at their abuse of people are too intense and I do not think my upfrontness would be appreciated.

I would like to say that "opinion" is not primarily what we are not here for so much as to accurately document the inconclusions and controversies. With "The Knowledge" that is quite easy because, really, the "official" party line/core knowledgebase is fairly limited.

Within the BKWSU family, there really is not any place for "opinion". Opinion is known as "manmat" and is something negative or wasteful.

Its a strange thing but the forum members here, as pariahs to the BKs, are seemingly more concerned about the accuracy of the teachings and the nature of the BKWSU re-writes than most BKs themselves! For example, why did God say the population of the world was only 5 Billion when it is now over 6 and who told the BKWSU to re-write this in the Murlis if he did not?

There seems to be a general consensus that the leadership of the BKWSU have taken the teachings and made something else out of it - with themselves at the top of it. And that the middle management, or VIP BKs, have added layers and layers of non-teachings to give purpose and protect their own position filling in the emptinesses. All we are doing is trying to cut through all of that and guide others.

Its another strange thing but "upfrontness" is probably the one thing that they need to hear as it has been largely exorcised from their own system. They need to see and hear the suffering and confusion that they are causing others to wake themselves out of their dream.

In my opinion though, and this is only opinion as yet, most career Brahmins have a heatlhy ambition and ego that can drive them quite ruthlessess. They would need one to ride the bucking bull of BKWSU center life. It is probably good that they know the rest of the world is now seeing and discussing them.

• Has your husband mentioned this site to them? Did they give a response?