A common link amongst the women

Why is he still so damned nice to me if he wants to be detached? Seeing that over and over again, also that I misinterpretate, talk on the forum and giving him all this problem-talk at lunch.

jannisder,

is he vegetarian?

on one level you are suffering from a problem many women tend to suffer from. I do not know the terminology for it but it is a sort of exaggerated subjectivity in which you are the center of the world and you are over-sensitively interpreting his actions and signals as a response to you. He is nice because he is nice, it is good "darna" (BK behavior) to be nice. It is as simple as that. It is not a signal to you.

Two things become clear. On one hand, your man is not a full or proper BK (while not being a full and proper ordinary man ...); on the other hand, what he really wants from you is the "ultimate orgasm" of converting you to become a BK Sister. At which point he will probably dump you again and go and find another follower. If you have no interest in becoming a BK Sister. You should stop seeing him. Your emotions are being used.

There is no doubt to my mind that he is also "having his cake and eating it". He having his pleasure with you and you, like many women, are falling for the old "unobtainable fruit" trap.

His line about our interpretation of the Murli being wrong is a typical BKWSU response; insulting, condescending and inaccurate. 3 qualities I think you will find far more common that peace, love and respect. It is just the sisters-in-charge controlling the thoughts of their followers yet again. We do not have "an interpretation" here. We have a discussion of facts. A lot of facts they do not really want their followers to question.

• So what is your relationship with him really all about?

Having said all that, thank you very much for being a wonderful secret service agent for US, documenting the true state of affairs with these BKs, what they think and how they behave.

Yes, please go to the center and ask the center-in-charge about all the inaccuracies and changes in the history and philosophy, why they thought Brahma was God, Destruction etc.

Your problem is with him, his behavior, your relationship with him, not the group.

Its a hard call because I see where you are coming from but I have to disagree here.

Two people "having problems" are like two individuals sitting at a level table.

Two people "having problems" and one of them is in the BKs are like two individuals sitting at a table parked on a steep mountainside ... by which I mean, it is ANYTHING but a level playing field. The non-BK is at a complete disadvantage.

This kind of attitude would be my fear if the individual/s were to go to an ordinary, secular therapist. Yes, I agree that there are issues that are just issues between the two individuals and could or need to be addressed as such. And, yes, I agree that the individual themselves needs to address certain personal issues of their own, e.g. doormat syndrome, assertiveness, choice of partners etc.

But I also emphasis that as soon as one individual becomes involved with the BKWSU, the entire situation becomes loaded in another way. One obvious example of this how difficult or unwilling any BK would find it to be honest in a therapeutic environment.

I am reminded of cordyceps (which I think you yourself pointed out), the parasitic fungis that invade the body and mind of insects, drive their behaviour irrationally and then kill their host in order to propogate themselves, video here. This to me is the best analogy I have yet to what is going on with BKs. There is no point having therapy with, or about, an ant when it is the fungi, or the "psychic fungi", that has actually taken over.

One of the common threads between these women is that they have all realised that it is not JUST their husband or partner that they are dealing with. And I agree with that.

Its a hard call because I see where you are coming from but I have to disagree here.[list]Two people "having problems" are like two individuals sitting at a level table. [...] One of the common threads between these women is that they have all realised that it is not JUST their husband or partner that they are dealing with. And I agree with that.

On the other hand, if the centers in question suddenly closed or if some powerful non-BK shakti womyn confronted the centers-in-charge that their beliefs and practices are full of doggy-doo and more harmful, the problems in the relationships would still be there.

My point is not to ignore the BKs, but to consider if they are attending to their partners lives to the detriment of themselves.

I did have an irate husband yelling at me over the phone for messing with his wife's head. After I gave her the course and she started reading Murlis at home, she refused to be intimate with her husband, reacted badly to the language of the Murlis and ended up having a nervous breakdown. It wasn't nice being part of the harm, being blamed for the harm, and then finding out that Dr. Nirmala was detached about the whole thing - did not care.

They don't care if someone commits suicide either. Not enough to talk to centers-in-charge about the issue, not enough to allow any doggy-doo on the image they project of themselves.

Hello Girls and Boys,

Sorry, busy this week so will be brief, but just to say "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus".

(Almost looks like a Murli point with planets involved. Maybe that's why Jupiter is so prominent, everyone wants to live as there is harmony. I am off track, (some of the BKs here can explain my previous sentence)).

A relationship takes two, and a third relationship is a love triangle. Extra complexities. Energy imbalances.

Chat later.

My point is not to ignore the BKs, but to consider if they are attending to their partners lives to the detriment of themselves.

Agreed. I suppose the same must be said of myself/ourselves. We run the risk of continuing to invest in their BK "thing" ... of which world denial/world adversity is a specific element.

To pick up on what Bansy says, that "third person" is not just a person but a 75 year old institution of 1,000s.

The experience you recall, and the response from the Senior Sister, remains tattooed on my brain as one of the end points in any faith I might have had in the BKWSU. I also remember watching situations of mothers "fighting for their children" that had gotten sucked into the BKWSU. I am sure that in the women's minds it was fairly primal, e.g. one woman versus one woman for their child. And I am sure it was hurtful and humiliating for the non-BKs to be completely run around by the institution.

In the same way with these women (and I am deliberately wrting this out in public), they can only perceive it according to the level of their social experiences. Me and you, "us and thems" that might have arise in communities. I just keep flagging up there there is much more to it than that. To mess with the BKs is to take things into a different dimension.

But you are right, they ought to be asking the basic question of, "why am I investing in him?". Frankly, as sympathetic as I am on any individual case, my feeling is that they should just boot them out right now. I suppose one could make a marriage contract that prohibited the other partner from having any contact with the BKs at all ... and I really relish the thought of some fired up women going and giving the BKs a piece of their mind at morning class. Especially now that we can add weight to the accusations given the BKs do not know their own history and philosophical roots!

Bansy, such incredible insight. What a summation.

The triangle. The 2 sexes do have very different ways of dealing with situations and issues. I find the older we get, the more complex we are. I think both Joel and ex-l are right in what they say but it is connected. The what comes first, the chicken or the egg? One doesn't really exist with out the other.

I am very, very pleased to say these questions, and this forum, have allowed me to get to a place that I am finally finding contentment in. It struck me, as I was working in the wee small hours in peace doing fine bead work for an order (this is when my mind starts its own meanderings), that up to date I had been only asking questions about them and the BKs. No questions about my own behaviour. Of course, I don't want my life as I know it to change. It had taken such an effort to get here. But life is not stagnant.

What were my motifs? Why had I such an unacknowledged need to control his life and decisions? What real right do I have to do that? I wouldn't welcome it in my life. (Part of why I was angry at him and BKs is because they had made decisions that affected my life). Yes, women do have an incredibly strong need to nurture, to fix everyone's problems, to steer people they care about in a direction that we see fit, and we make the decision of what is best for them, thus depriving the very people we care about the right to decide for themselves. Whether we agree with it or not.

Another thing we all have in common is that we have all been wanting to control their behaviour. Of course, they have been unacceptable and wrong in their treatment of us but instead of dealing with our behaviour, we want to change theirs to suit us. Which brings me to where I am now. Peaceful. I can give him the room to make his decisions. I can still love and be supportive, I can still be in a position to pose questions to him. I do not have the right to demand he lives according to my rules. I have to live according to my rules and values but he doesn't, they are mine. I do not have the right to control him because his actions hurt or are not the outcome I want. I do love him. I want him to find what he is looking for. These are his issues and only he can fix them, I cannot. I can only explain to him how I get to this place of peace. If he wishes for me to show him how I got here, I will. If not, that's fine. I would be so incredibly sad to loose him, who knows what will happen, but its OK. I can deal better with it now.

Up to now I was so angry, I blamed him and hated the BK organisation. I regretted having met him and resented that he would put me through this. I don't have this now (maybe just a teeny bit still, but getting better). I had a very dysfunctional childhood and a horrific 1st marriage but do not regret any of it. I learnt. I discovered myself. I grew. I am doing so as we speak. I forgot the answers are in me.

I came on the forum, I wanted someone to be able to give me the solutions, to be able to make it all better for me. The forum, you wonderful souls, gave me the information; the means and the direction for me to look where I could find solutions that I was happy with. I can let him go now, if that's what he really ends up wanting. I am in a position now where I can tell him if a situation is unacceptable to me without wanting to crucify him for it and make him bend to my will. I am now taking the first small steps to heal myself. I can now boot him out the door if that is what I decide to do. I will give him a chance. He is trying to decide now. He looks so sick.

He admitted he betrayed me and finally took some responsibility. The ball is in his court at the moment but I hold a racquet. Ex-I is right. Examine the relationship. What is it really all about? It is not about me and what i want nor is it about him and what he wants ... it is about US.

Mind you, this is where I am at. This does not absolve the BK institution from their responsibilities of what they are doing and the harm they have done. It does not relieve my man of his responsibility and the consequences of the decisions he is making. Nor does it relieve me of my responsibilities to stop trying to 'save and fix' him and to control him and to start focusing on my own issues instead of directing everything to him.

Thank you all for listening to my deep personal ravings. I hope I haven't bored you all to tears. May be someone else can relate to this and it help them. I just wish I could give something back to you all. Cant help wanting to go and mother Mr Green. He is such a sweetheart. (There I go wanting to mother the world again and put the bullies (BKs) in their place) . I really wish I could give something back, maybe it will come to me.

Maybe The Knowledge that you have helped me find my peace and contentment again will be a little something. It is fragile, but it is there. All my love, thank you.

That's bansy for you. Love

Cant help wanting to go and mother Mr Green. He is such a sweetheart. (There I go wanting to mother the world again and put the bullies (BKs) in their place) .

Yeah, you should kick out the current one and move in Mr Green. Save yourself the 7 years of grief that you are going to go through with the first one. In fact, why don't you tell your husband that you have met a really nice guy on the forum that you are interested in and that if he is going to go off and become a sister-worshipping celibate, would he mind if your shacked up with someone else?

Mr Green is already serious and entirely "ex-ed". He was more of a BK than yours is ever going to be. He has gone through the worst of the BK de-tox mood swings and come out the other side still alive and with his heart beating ... and he enjoys foreign travel!

Given the right lighting and some saxophone music, I would think that you might even be in for some love action again. The nice thing about an ex-BK is that you get all of that good "darna" (e.g. the virtues), jannisder appreciates so much; without any of the dogma, lies or denial!

Given the right lighting and some saxophone music, I would think that you might even be in for some love action again. The nice thing about an ex-BK is that you get all of that good "darna" (e.g. the virtues), jannisder appreciates so much; without any of the dogma, lies or denial!

Good result, good out come for every one, setting an example!

Sounds like a happy end. If you make a party, are we all invited? We can take good vibes, music, flowers and fruits. Yes, cut the shackles of old and painted as new dogmas. I cut yours, you cut mine, when cannot do it totally on our own.

We all have to visualize and use the power of our imagination and thinking more and try to make difficult things, easy, don't we?

Oh, you two are so naughty! I said mother, not molest! Poor Mr Green, lucky he has a really good dry sense of humour.

Next time you do this, warn me. He was around the corner, I read it and fell apart laughing, but couldnt make any noise. That's cruel ...

A party, now is that a funny thought. The last couple of nights I dreamt we were all getting together for the first time in person ... a few years to come yet, that BKdom had finally found no more hosts to survive upon, nor were they allowed to exist ... I like that idea. It was really funny trying to see what you all looked like ... in my dream ...

Poor Mr Green, he will never talk to me again..

Best laugh I have had in a long, long time.

It is not you. This is far deeper and more serious than you can possibly imagine. It is sickening how deep this stuff penetrates people's psych.

I remember myself though when I first got in, someone giving me a book on Millenarianist (End of the World) cults ... just like every one of them, I was so sure that I was right and it was all true this time. It was as though I was on drugs.

This is what is so difficult, even impossible, for us to describe or explain to all you women, or anyone who is friends and family of BKs. I hope you never do experience it, but unless you do become a committed BK there is absolutely no way you can come close to understanding what is going on in these mens' minds. Hypnotism, brainwashing, etc., does not even begin to describe it. I cannot describe it to you. They are totally absorbed with this BK thing, nothing normal penetrates their psyche. I do not mean to sound gloomy, just to say that the BKs hold over them is on a completely different level of consciousness to any thing you will have experienced yourselves, so it is not surprising that you are confused and unable to understand what is happening. I experienced it myself, but I am unable to describe it. This is one of the reasons we who have woken up from the nightmare all stick together and have such close bonds with each other. We have all been through this horrendous, unbelievable experience that no-one else understands. So we have a bond.

Poor Mr Green, he will never talk to me again..

I bet he will. Come on Mr. Green. Say something. How about one of your witty one liners that have me laughing nearly every day.

Best laugh I have had in a long, long time.

Glad to hear it.

Maybe The Knowledge that you have helped me find my peace and contentment again will be a little something. It is fragile, but it is there. All my love, thank you.

It is more than enough. What you write is far from boring. It is doing at least two things that I can think of right now. One, it is helping me to understand how deluded I was, and how people around me felt. Two, it is documenting in public the harm that the BKWSU is doing, and the fact that the BKWSU does not even care that it is doing all this damage to you and to your families. Do you read any helpful posts here from Seniors in the BKWSU? Do you even get any help from rank and file BKs? No, you don't. They are not here for you.

Hi All,

So much to take in. I do agree with you that we need help but know for sure he wouldn't go to Relate. He said last night that his behaviour is because he hasn't been practising. I said, "you were nice person when I meet you and you did not go then". He said, "its because he was going up to that point". He knows what sort of person he has become. He doesnt like it but I am obviosly not the person to help as he has become steadily worse in the time I have known him.

Last night I tried to take interest in what his beliefs are. That seems to me the only time he wants to talk. He was on a roll as he thought I was interested, talking for over a hour. Whenever I tried to put my point accross he was not interested. His view is his view. He said that in a few years time I will believe it. I went, "I wont".

I sort of told him about this forum without going into to much detail, he poo-hoo-ed it saying, "I do not know who you been talking to but they have got it all wrong ...". I went, "Well, its not one person. Its a site where 100's are on there are ex-BKs as well as BKs ..."

Anyway, he is now not eating meat, nor garlic or onions. I asked him that one, he said its bad for his stomach. Yeah, right. So, the only thing that has come yet is the celibacy. I did bring this question up, and in one breathe he said he has too high a sex drive to live with out it, in the next he is asking me what I would do if he had accident and could perform anyway ...

I know he is worried about losing me. He is well into his dreams that they come true etc. He said last night I dreamt you was having an affair and I caught you. So me, trying to make light of it went, "how do you catch me then? Let me know so I can be bit cute". do not think he found it funny!! Anyway I told him I wouldn't do that to him. If I wanted out, I'd tell him ... If he is that bothered, then he would not want to come out with me and not go to his meetings!!!

He reckons what he has always done is he goes to BK for a while, recharges his batteries, becomes a better person ...

Like Di says, what right have I to stop him? I will pick up my life, do what I want to do, and see where it takes us ...

Do you read any helpful posts here from Seniors in the BKWSU? Do you even get any help from rank and file BKs? No, you don't. They are not here for you.

Thanks proy. And you know what Di? That is what really, really hurts as an observer. The total lack of communication from anyone that sees themselves as staunchly BK. And so in the end as I said on Jannisder's thread, one is left to face the harsh light of day, i.e Karma.

Non-Bks ought to know that very often the spiritual sustenance on offer to the students at centres is minimal.

At some centres the regular non-BK attenders to talks and the like are complaining that they are not getting anything new! Same old same old. They are stagnating - not being presented with the opportunity to discuss practical application of knowledge.

So tell me, how will we feel when the 'end' comes and they rightfully accuse us of having not served them? Will we run for shade saying that we are sorry, my senior did not give me permission to say about that.

Last night I tried to take interest in what his beliefs are, that seems to me the only time he wants to talk, he was on a roll as he thought I was interested, talking for over a hour

Interesting that there is a similar slant on jannisder's thread. Many of us got so totally intoxicated with The Knowledge that we lost the human touch! Now we want to serve come what may! Telling the world what we know. Meanwhile we are not listening! BK students are taught that it is God's service - well at least that is my understanding God's teachings.

Can someone remind them that service is the LAST of four subjects? But it is the one that is the most shiny! That's why we get captivated. Oh no what will happen if i do not get the oppiortunity to serve, they cry! And so we cleave to that accursed bauble as if it were worth more than diamonds and pearls or indeed worth more than the salvation of their relationships, health etc! Maybe all the focus on cultivating VIPs and emerging so-called mikes is giving the rank and file the wrong message. Plus the Mega programs blah blah blah.

The word service begins with s; just as the words slave and slaver do! Am I enslaved by my own delusions? It is possible.

Take care people.

Whenever I tried to put my point accross he is not interested, his view is his view, he said that in a few yrs time I will believe it,

Now you are discovering what the prevailing attitude is amongst the BKs. They think they are right and everybody else is wrong, so why should they listen to you. They think that either you will "get it" like they did, and be one of the "lucky ones" who become BK "Brahmins" and then deities in the Golden Age, or you will never get it, in which case you are a lost cause. Don't expect them to listen to your point of view, to them it is irrelevant.

The fact that all your men were in a nurturing relationship plays into the hands of the BK Sisters, who will take over the nurturing role until they have got them well and truly entrapped in the BK lifestyle. After that they will get bossed around with little or no spiritual sustenance, just used as servants in the centre.

Now we want to serve come what may!

Does it not say in the Murlis that service is just to keep you out of mischief? So busy that you don't have time for "vices".

Yes, they are always right. No matter what is said In the end I am supposed to see the light and will be grateful for it. I do not think so, what will happen in the world as far as im concerned will happen there is nothing I can do to prevent these things. So, all I can do is to enjoy what life has to offer me now, enjoy my kids, family etc ...

I am afraid a lot of what is said on this site is still very beyond me, I do not understand it all ... So be it. I am not a thick person but have never come accross this before so do not really know where to go with it all. I was told this morning by my husband he would give me something to think on during the day. I told him I have enough on my plate when I am at work, so then I get told, "shame you are too busy to share my thoughts and ideas"!!!

What about my thoughts and ideas?? I do not even come into it. I just want a easy, happy life. I do not think I ask for too much ???

Katie