The Tao of the Traveller

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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john morgan

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

Dear Jim,

Thanks for your response, I am sorry that your interaction with ex-I coloured it but I got the gist. It would be very good to hear from you another time. For now, how can I see this film which you and others have worked so hard on? If its on DVD private message me and I'll send you the cost.

In appreciation,

John
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

Ramsay and Smith wrote:... a key feature is that the top leadership are extremely accessible to those at lower levels of the hierarchy and indeed to ordinary members.. In that sense, they show all the characteristics of Servant Leadership ... a refusal to be treated as gurus or objects of reverence ...

... coordinators are chosen for their 'spiritual stature' rather than age, gender, and so on ... conflict over positions of authority is rarely seen ...

... the BKWSU is distinguished by its practise of spiritual principles in management, leading to, comparatively speaking, very low levels of conflict and organisation malaise ...

I am sorry but after 24 years with the organization I have to say that I disagree with this.

Should we have a poll and rate each of these statements on a 1 to 10 scale?
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post27 May 2008

Yes, I think we should. I will have a look at the poll system and see how it works but I think we might have to break them up into three separate polls.

I apologise to the rest of your folks for not to backing down on this issue. I am absolutely sure the movie will be very viewable when it finally comes out, especially for the growing BK marketplace. But, sadly, it is impossible to remove it from the tangled web we all weave, when we practice to deceive non-BKs and it would have been better to have kept it entirely independent, or entirely inhouse.

I am not surprised to hear that The Tao of the Traveller work was entirely completed and THEN delivered as a finished piece to the BKWSU. Other experiences would suggest that is the only way to get things done ... especially headed off into the arts. Another Sir Walter Scott reference, for those that got caught in the first above, children and fools, we are told, should never look at half-done work. The same is true of those that love having committee meetings.
jim freidman wrote:ex-l wrote so many things about the film ... When I tackled him about these untruths, he suddenly said he wasn’t referring to the film but talking about the film industry.

Actually, jim, if you had actually read my posts you would have seen that on the 13 Mar I clearly stated that I had not seen the movie and what my position was. If you chill out and read my post above, it is clear that I am not discussing the film industry ...
ex=l wrote:Re: The Tao of the Traveller by ex-l on 13 Mar 08

I am not a critic of the film as I have not seen it but I am generally critical of the fact the BKWSU does not clearly label its service as such, BKs do not make clear their relationships and present themselves as independents etc ... and talking the name of another religion 'crosses the line'. Then there is the business side of it all we have yet to discover.
Again, in your raging lust to discredit me, it may be too subtle a distinction to make but, e.g. it is not necessary for anyone to have seen any movie to make a critique of, say, corruption in the movie industry. The two aspects are entirely separate.

Comments which indeed apply even more to the academic paper than to the Tao of the Traveller.

Jim, you have only ever posted on two topics. Yes, you made assertions about me personally in the topic about my conduct and I responded to them patiently, here.
jim freidman wrote:Absolutely. The result for me is that I am an infrequent user and am very disappointed. I hoped for real discussion and in some areas that almost works, but ex-l does keep popping up no matter what area you look into. In the first area of my contact with ex-l he made so many incorrect statements as though they were fact, that I cannot see him as either ‘honest’ or straightforward’ as some replies have said. He kvetches on about things he knows nothing about, making statements that aren’t true.

Also, rather than talking about the institution and the powers that be, he spent a lot of time attacking some other Brahmins.

Reference to "the Traveller" is in a classic old Murli song, "Oh traveller of the night, do not become weary. The destination of dawn is not far off ..." and widespread through out the channelled messages the Brahma Kumari call Murlis. I have argued that the Ramsays have been afforded privileges by the powers that be, no one has contradicted that. Tamasin herself knows this but it is for herself to speak about. Just as before, here is the evidence for the public to read supporting my statement.

    Sakar Murli 2003/06/05 Revised - Shiv Baba says: I, the Traveller, am ever-pure. This is the impure, vicious world ..."
    Sakar Murli 2003/08/09 Revised - "He is such a beautiful Traveller. You were of no use. I now teach you and make you"
    Sakar Murli 2004/01/24 Revised - "spiritual children know very well that they are travellers and that this is not their land ... The Father explains to you souls: All of you are travellers ... You too are travellers who come here just once."
    Sakar Murli 2004/02/11Revised - "I have The Knowledge that I am a Traveller for only a few days. Similarly, you too have come..."
    Sakar Murli 2003/03/04 Revised - "You children understand the meaning of “travellers of the night”"
Other direct Murli references are just too common to mention; "Incorporeal child ... Incorporeal Father ... the diamond ... the jewel ... easy (Raja Yoga) ... know me with your mind (manmanabhav) ... golded red light ... union ... Incorporeal One, Eternally Pure, Ocean of Knowledge ... Lord of the Gita, Lord of the Innocent ... Shiva ... Father of Buddha, Father of Shankaracharya, Father of Abrahma, Father of Brahma, Father of Mohammed, Father of All ... One God, One God ... Avyakt ... Remembering God is Yoga ... Cycle of time (nice abstract picture of it too) ... This is the time of the confluence ... the time of the highest pilgrimage ... only one path will take you there ... the path of rememberance ... The Eight Powers ... Surpreme Soul ... Ocean ... infinitesimal spark of light ..."

All pure references direct from the Murli or BKWSU Knowledge, of which its zone-in-charge centers are all mentioned on the back pages of the book.
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jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post28 May 2008

Hello again John,

Thanks for your reply. There's a website, taotraveller.com. I think DVDs are sold through it, but I haven't tried it myself.

There was a small showing of the film in Madhuban when I was there, so I have already seen it. All good things. Jim
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post28 May 2008

taotraveller.com wrote:We will be selling DVD's of the film from this website within a few weeks. Please send us a message through 'Contact us' and we'll get back to you as soon as they are available. Thanks for being patient.

It has been like that since the website started ... which makes the intent at lambasting anyone over not having seen the movie transparently obvious.

The quotes above were all taken verbatim from the book.
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jim freidman

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post29 May 2008

taotraveller.com wrote:We will be selling DVD's of the film from this website within a few weeks. Please send us a message through 'Contact us' and we'll get back to you as soon as they are available. Thanks for being patient.
ex-l wrote:It has been like that since the website started ... which makes the intent at lambasting anyone over not having seen the movie transparently obvious.

The quotes above were all taken verbatim from the book.

Actually the quotes were not taken from the book. I have it sitting here in front of me. Unless you mean that someone dared to use the word 'Traveller'.

Also there no lambasting of people for not seeing the film. It was justifiable criticism for someone talking about a film when they hadn't seen it and therefore had no actual knowledge of what was in it or how it was said, just supposition.
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post29 May 2008

jim freidman wrote:Actually the quotes were not taken from the book. I have it sitting here in front of me. Unless you mean that someone dared to use the word 'Traveller'.

As stated, I have the a copy of the book and all of the references were taken from it. If others are not convinced, please ask and I can give you specific page numbers. (I find the artful italics hard to read though).

Also as clearly stated, we are not making a critique of the movie. We discussing the practise of blurring the boundaries between personal, professional interests and Gyan/BK evangelism. A practise seemingly permissible to privileged Brahma Kumari followers, despite it being against Shrimat, and its encouragement by the Brahma Kumari leadership.

Perhaps that it too subtle a distinction for you to get. I think most readers of this forum will understand. At the very least, members of the general public, or movie industry, thinking about going to buy the Tao of the Traveller will make an internet search, realise that it is an skillful piece of Brahma Kumari evangelism and be pre-warned.

Personally, I am more interested in what happens next. Whether 'Ramsay, Inc' uses Gyan to find financial sponsorship for other non-Gyani and personally benefiting projects, or whether they dedicated their efforts solely to serving the Brahma Kumaris. Whether the BKWSU leadership condones and rewards this tendency, or not. Ultimately, this will be the proof of who is right and who is wrong.

"The Traveller" is not the word but the meaningful concept. A 'trigger' for Brahma Kumaris reminding them of themselves and their god according to their conceptual framework; the 5,000 Year identically repeating Cycle of Time. The Tao of the Traveller incorporates most of the major concepts of the Brahma Kumari religion. It is the use of Godly concepts, of which their ought be no personal ownership, and facilities for self-promotion that I think other Brahma Kumaris followers should be questioning.

That, and perhaps, the tendency toward nepotism seemingly evident in other elite BKWSU circles.
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warrior

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post29 May 2008

The Tao of the Traveller incorporates most of the major concepts of the Brahma Kumari religion. It is the use of Godly concepts, of which their ought be no personal ownership, and facilities for self-promotion that I think other Brahma Kumaris followers should be questioning.

The name Brahma Kumaris was created by ShivBaba (in the body of Lekhraj Kirpalani). So Brahma Kumaris belongs to ShivBaba and whatever belongs to ShivBaba belongs to the Brahmin children but ShivBaba says in many Murlis that we his children cannot make any money out of the Brahma Kumaris title. In other words we cannot use the name Brahma Kumaris to make any money out of it. Not at all, not even for the Yagya! If some one does make money using Brahma Kumaris he/she is breaking Shrimat. Shrimat means higher directions. Shrimat is law! Or we are Brahmins or we are not, that is simple!

Yes, all the followers should be questioning: Why are you charging for the DVD? Where is the money going? Knowledge/Gyan that ShivBaba given us was used to create the film and so why are you charging $20 for anyone that wants to view and learn from it?

It’s shocking!
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

Thank you warrior. Of course it goes further than just the name but to the concepts as well. Let's be honest, without the "magic ingredient" of Baba (the Lord of Light, the Incorporeal Father etc) what are these devices? At best empty shells ... at worse Brahma Kumaris "selling Bhakti" surely. That, to me, is just as bad.

And please allow me to underline the more subtle exploitation of Gyan and Yoga, to bolster up and advance one's own career. So ... "I might not make money out of it now ... but it will add to my value and reputation ... can be used to forward my career ... gets me social advantages ... make me higher level connections I can then use ... prestige" and so on. All of which can be capitalised on later.

    Why are some allowed and encouraged to do this whilst others encouraged to forgo a career (in the arts or otherwise)? Is there any logic or divinity to the distinction in the different castes of BK Brahmins?
Would this not be considered "Copper Aged", i.e. doing business deals with God? Even I think 'Baba promotion' and 'Self promotion' should be entirely separate. The movie should be labelled as the product of the Brahma Kumaris, or better still the Godly World University as it is said in the Murlis and be freely available where possible.

Warrior, or anyone, what is the Shrimat on permitting asking for the price of "material costs"? Should service be limited to what we can afford to give for free, or are we allowed to demand from students the price of the material goods they take?
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warrior

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

Warrior, or anyone, what is the Shrimat on permitting asking for the price of "material costs"? Should service be limited to what we can afford to give for free, or are we allowed to demand from students the price of the material goods they take?

Always keep the picture in front of them. Do not even ask for money. Your work is to give them. If they have to give anything they will give on their own. If someone asks for price, you say that Baba is a friend of poor. It is distributed freely for the poor. But whatever amount is given by rich people will be used by us for further printing.( Murli 12.2.78 pg-2)

Do not become beggars who seek something, become donors. Do not have a desire to ask for respect, glamour, praise, dignity etc. If you ask, then, just as the present day beggars will not be given anything and will be chased away from a far off distance. Similarly, those who seek in a royal way will automatically distance themselves from other souls. (Murli 16-5-74)

It’s better to die than to ask. One should not seek anything. Many children keep asking for power, mercy, blessings etc. In the path of worship you have been experiencing downfall by begging and rubbing you forehead against the earth. Now there’s no necessity to ask anything. Father says that follow the direction. (Murli 7-6-69 pg-1)
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ex-l

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

And, presumably, that is the same for government, High Commission or other sophisticated funding?
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warrior

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

And, presumably, that is the same for government, High Commission or other sophisticated funding?

Money from the big heads? Dump it! :shock:

"Rich man will be very proud too, isn’t it? I am so and so. I possess this and that. Baba says that in order to deflate their ego, when they came to donate something, Baba will ask them to keep it with himself. Baba will observe. If he’s (worthy) capable then He will make him rich. If he’s not capable then He will tell him that we don’t require it. The donor will express wonder at His action. (Baba will say) we don’t require at all. If you wish you can dump it. It will not be of any use to us. If someone dupes Baba, who is making us so great, and then comes back, then Baba will say He was a traitor. He had duped us. We should not accept anything from him. Let him become poor. Such persons who are proud of themselves are called damned. Baba will say such damned persons are not required. It’s in Baba’s hand, whether to accept or not." (Murli 17-12-70, pg-3)
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

AH! If only we were following such Shrimat ... Then it wouldn't matter if it is God teaching or not. We would just be doing the right thing!
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bansy

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

Yes, all the followers should be questioning: Why are you charging for the DVD? Where is the money going? Knowledge/Gyan that ShivBaba given us was used to create the film and so why are you charging $20 for anyone that wants to view and learn from it?

If the producers HAD intended to make the distribution free in the first place, they would have by now already loaded it up onto Youtube or Google Videos. Of course, they could also have produced a hard copy DVD and given it away free too at the same time.

So whatever the defensive views of saying that the cast or producers or director or anyone involved etc had used their own resources to make the film can be true, and whilst that is itself a good thing, whether they wanted to distribute the film for free is ... well, quite obvious by now.
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bkti-pit

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Re: The Tao of the Traveller

Post30 May 2008

bansy wrote:So whatever the defensive views of saying that the cast or producers or director or anyone involved etc had used their own resources to make the film can be true, and whilst that is itself a good thing, whether they wanted to distribute the film for free is ....well quite obvious by now.

So if the aim is truly to benefit the world, why are such things not distributed for free or at minimum cost? I have always question that when we began to sell our books, cassettes and CDs at top price.

I do not know about the cost for a DVD but I am told by my friend who is still producing meditation commentaries CDs that the cost is around $1 a piece, all included. So God tell me why we sell them $15 - $20 if our aim is to make it available to the largest number of people! Or is it really our aim?
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