What is the truth?

ShivaBaba did not speak Murli in BB until 1950, before that, BKs believed BB was God Father himself. That I think is quite a revelation and it comes from documents produced by BKs at the time called Divine Decrees. In Murli it says in the original that Shiva does not incarnate into a virgin, yet in rewritten Murlis later, it says the opposite. Now the point is that Gulzar is a virgin, therefore how can it be Shiva who incarnates at the time of Avyakt Vani? From this point alone it is possible to see how rewrites can vastly change the meaning of Gyan

Do you have any proof of what you have written that Shiva Baba did not speak through BB until 1950's.

Yes, this point of entering a virgin I am aware of this. He enters only BB and even after BB became Avyakt He enters subtle body of BB and that combined form BB's subtle body with BB's soul and Shiva Baba enter Gulzar Dadi's body - thats why its termed as BapDada. What the point says is that Shiv Baba alone doesn't enter a virgin and His original Chariot remains BB. It is also possible that this point was applicable at that point of time ... i.e. when Shiva Baba actually spoke this through BB.

If you look in the history section, you will find most of the details.

OK thanks John Bhai.

Actually I don't believe all BKSWU teachings are false, but enough to steer it from the true course established by ShivaBaba.

Do you have any proof of what you have written that Shiva Baba did not speak through BB until 1950's.

Yes, lots of proof.

There are download documents in the history section, ex-l is the expert on what information is where and could possibly pinpoint you to the right download. The documents have also been discussed quite expensively in the forum itself.

What the point says is that Shiv Baba alone doesn't enter a virgin and His original Chariot remains BB. It is also possible that this point was applicable at that point of time ... i.e. when Shiva Baba actually spoke this through BB.

Then why has the BKSWU changed the Murli point?

master-creator and all,

I did not know that there were only 5 years worth of BK Murlis which were rotated, until I came onto this forum. Did anyone here in this forum know this (no need to answer) ? I am taking this "so-called fact" as "truth". I do not know whether it is. The only way for BKs to deny it is to come on this forum and officially state so. Then that will remove the doubt. Otherwise I will take the stance of "guilty until proven innocent". Preferably I'll like God to come forward and say so via His Chariot.

So where does truth lie in the BK world ? How come we don't know somany things. Well, it is that time in the wheel drama. It's exciting is not it ? But may have come at the expense of people lives. Or has it ? If the internet was available 40 years ago, maybe we would have more answers. No, we are at this point in time. And destruction is getting nearer ... or is it ?

The way to look at the truth within the BK circle is to read a Murli during Sakar Baba's day (just pre 1969 since Brahma Baba was almost complete before HE became Avaykt), and thus they were the divine words of God at that time, to the Murli you get today each morning at BK centres. Are they the same, have they been filtered, edited? Would you prefer to have the original versions with the correct dates? I am not suggesting that the Murlis at the centres received daily are of no importance, but given the choice which would you take for your search of the truth ? Can your intellect handle that? Would you like to see the original Mona Lisa, or the 4th version of it? Some folks may not be able to tell the difference, that is not the point. Because Baba says we are all students so we should all be studying from the same page. Unless we are numberwise?

Now, do the PBKs do a better job by clarifying the Murlis? Do and would they help you, are they further or closer to your truth than to the Murlis that BKs give each day ?

Are the clarifications from PBKs complete? Or have the Vishnu Party and other splinter groups feel Gyan is not forthcoming and is held back, the same way as PBKs feel the BK Gyan is not in depth?

Yes, it is confusing, master-creator, I never even heard of ex-BKs, let alone PBKs, or splinter groups before coming on this forum. Did you (no need to answer) ? How much of this forum discussions are true ? What does it take for someone to leave God to find another path to God, then leave that God, and find another. Does God get better in other places ? To what end is the truth for that soul ?

How much study do you want to do, i.e how much in search for the truth are you willing to take on? If you are happy that the world is flat, that is fine if you are a farmer. But if you are pilot, would that be enough? If you are a surgeon, is the world flat?

Everything and everyone is the truth. You take the bits you like, but also the bits you don't like. You connect with God, you apply with dharna and seva, but truth is accumulation of that spiritual experience in the material world.

There is one thing I take, which is my own opinion, is that truth is where no-one prevents another from finding their own spiritual truth. It is not a matter of liking or disliking. It is as it is. I am frankly shocked that the BKWSU wishes to provide legal action towards this forum. Look at what is happening in Burma.

Bansy, thanks for the inputs. Just FYI - I knew about the 5 years Murli rotation thing and the splinter groups before coming to this forum.

Then why has the BKSWU changed the Murli point?

I am not sure John Bhai.

I am not sure John Bhai.

No one as yet has given a straight credible answer to the 'why' of changing Murli and hiding Murlis. I am not saying it is on your shoulders to give an explanation, just pointing out that BKSWU will not give an answer and no BK on this forum has given an answer.

In fact, most BKs who have ventured onto this forum will not even discuss any points of knowledge.

“There are no whole truths: all truths are half-truths. It is trying to treat them as whole truths that plays the devil.” - Alfred North Whitehead