Why does God need a translator?

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Dev Anand

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Why does God need a translator?

Post16 Nov 2012

ex-l wrote:It's their trick to turn it all back on the follower and make it their problem, their fault. Get them to admit their don't know, they cannot explain or they are wrong ... almost impossible.

Ah, I love your straightforward replies above. You hit the nail on the head my dear "ex-l".

I was in Madhuban in 1982 and had some private interviews with Shiv Baba. I had some questions to ask Baba. Some BK Seniors were telling me that when sitting in front of Baba, all my questions would disappear ... which was NOT true. I asked Baba some personal questions including a question on Carbon-14 dating in English telling Him how The Cycle of 5000 years would become inconsistent with Carbon-14 dating. Now, Shiv Baba needed a translator as usual. So Nirwair Bhai had to translate my question into Hindi for Baba to understand.

BUT WHY? Does God actually need a translator? OK, he always speaks in Hindi through His medium Gulzar Dadi. But did He not catch my question in English before I had to verbalize it? According to me, He should have grasped the subtle vibration of my questions before I would speak, right? Now, instead of letting Shiv Baba answer my question on Carbon-14 dating, Nirvai Bhai immediately intervened telling me that he would give me the answer later from a document. This is trying to be more kingly than the king himself ...

Now Baba will tell you that He is not a mind reader. He is not "Jaani Jaananhaar" and as such we have to ask Him in words. But when thousands of souls are sitting in meditation at different places while Baba is away in Paramdhan, how does He catch the thoughts of these thousands of souls each one holding an inner conversation with Him???
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ex-l

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Re: Why does God need a translator?

Post17 Nov 2012

I cannot answer a question like, "Why does God need a translator?". It comes up time and time again, and no one can. Any answer would just depend on some silly, made up rules and predictions about why "god" speak lower middle class Hindi. In a sense, you are not asking the question, you are stating and underlining the ridiculousness of the proposition that it was "God" you were meeting.

Where is "language" stored? In the brain or in the soul (according to BK theory)? If the god of the BK can use Lekhraj Kirpalani's language capacities, then why cannot he tap into and use yours? Why would he be limited to the one piece of meat (Gulzar's brain) he is allegedly sitting in? Is "language" in the brain or in the soul?

Even if the BK were just to admit, "OK, it's not god, it's just a more enlightened Lekhraj Kirpalani", then perhaps there would be a better explanation for it ... Lekhraj Kirpalani, despite apparently doing business with the British, did not speak much English ... but that raises other problems and questions like, "why the great personality change between Lekhraj Kirpalani when he was alive and Lekhraj Kirpalani after he was dead?".

What is more concerning, but not at all surprising as we know it goes on at every level, is the censorship that goes on in and around the inner circle of BKs.

Of course, neither Gulzar nor any of the BKs really understand the processes of Carbon-14 dating or any of the other dating systems scientists use these days (they do not use just one, they use many and chec and compare results). To the BKs, "scientist" are no more than a group of servants in their court with a job to do and to be use, and science (which, paradoxically, comes from Latin word 'scientia' meaning knowledge') is almost worthless and uninteresting. Science is just Maya and the cause of Destruction ... "Leave it to the science wallahs to work out", the royal court of BKs decree.

Personally, I think the god of the BKs's response to such a question would have been interesting, and even if Gulzar deflected from answer, trying to make you look at something else within yourself instead, that would have been interesting too.
    Why should Nirwair get to direct and control *your* 5 minutes with "God"?
    Why should not you get to spend your time with "God" as you wish?
    did not Nirwair spent decades with Lekhraj Kirpalani when there was only a tiny group and every question could be discussed?
    Why do the inner circle of BKs who have spent decades with Lekhraj Kirpalani *still* monopolise him, sitting on the stage and control him?
    Why not "put others forward", like it says in the Murlis ... let "those that are last, travel fast", like it says in the Murlis ... why don't they let others have a chance like chancellors, like it says in the Murils?
Those are rhetorical questions I don't need answered, however, the questions I would like to put to you are ... "why did not you assert yourself and have your questions asked and answered?" and "why did you allow yourself to be so disempowered by the BKs?".

This is BK Nirwair (from a clip produced by Filmsbk.com).

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Dev Anand

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Re: Why does God need a translator?

Post18 Nov 2012

Thanks a lot my dear "ex-l" for your valuable feedback. I am always pleased to read your bold words of truth. The journey towards truth is highly pleasurable indeed!

I was in front of Shiv Baba in the presence of BK Nirwair in the year 1982 in Madhuban. Baba first started by giving me drishti. Then He spoke to me in Hindi and translated by Nirwair for my knowledge of Hindi was poor at that time. Shiv Baba spoke to me :

"Become an embodiment of all powers. Power stage will enable you to overcome all problems."

I cannot recollect the exact words of translation but these were the main words as far as I can remember. I had a deep desire to speak to Baba and so I spoke to Him : "Baba, you know who I am, where I come from, why I have come to meet you and what are the different questions in my mind. Please enlighten me." I have to admit that I wanted to test the omniscience of Baba and I guess it was quite legitimate for me to do so. I wanted to verify if He could catch the hidden questions in my mind. That's the reason why I did not shoot my questions right away. But I was surprised to see that Baba was quick to answer cleverly :

"I have already answered your questions."

I was not the type to keep quiet at that evasive response, so I continued to speak: " But I still have questions to ask you Baba ..."

And again quick was the answer of Shiv Baba: "Whatever questions you want to ask will bear the same answer".

Wait a minute! I thought to myself! How is it possible that those few words of advice given to me by Baba could really be an answer to all my questions. Note : These are the words of wisdom spoken after the drishti,

"Become an embodiment of all powers. Power stage will enable you to overcome all problems."

And I wanted to ask Baba a question on carbon-14 dating which would make His Cycle of 5000 years inconsistent. I also had the question of the Equinoctial Cycle of 24,000 years mentioned in "The Holy Science" by Swami Sri Yukteshwar Ji, Paramahansa Yogananda's guru ...

Now, how could those few words spoken by Baba be an answer to all my questions?

My deep urge to arrive at the truth forced me to insist upon asking Baba again. So I continued to ask in spite of being sort of blocked : " But Baba I still have questions which do not have any bearing with the answer that you have given me. To start with, let us examine the question on carbon-14 dating and discover how it makes your Cycle of 5000 years inconsistent (... and I gave some details to prove my belief ...) then I continued the last sentence in Hindi : " Aap ka kia vichaar hai Baba?" meaning : What's your opinion Baba? Now, instead of waiting for Baba to answer my question, Nirwair Bhai intervened as if trying to replace God Himself by telling me that he would give me an answer later on from a document ...

Let the readers reflect and conclude what type of God the Brahma Kumaris believe in. Can God ever escape His child's deep desire to know the truth?

Now if you ask those senior BKs and Dadis about these questions, they will try to escape again. They are the greatest escapists. Most BKs are better termed "Bewakuff" which means stupid and they are actually stupid. Many will tell you that these types of questions on carbon-14 dating are not important on the spiritual path. May be even Shiv Baba would say the same thing. But then why did He encourage BK Jagdish Chander to write about Science and Physics in his books? And Dadis would tell you to sit in accurate Yoga and the answers would be revealed by Baba. Wait a minute! If Baba cannot answer your questions when you are sitting face to face with Him, how the hell will He respond to your questions from Paramdham when you are sitting here in meditation in His remembrance? Will He catch your thoughts from Paramdham? But He says that He is not a mind reader, that is is He not "Jaani Jananhaar!!!

I once phoned BK Jagdish Chander and talked to him for about an hour. I asked him why Baba actually needed a translator. He replied that it was to show regard to Baba that a translator was needed to translate from English to Hindi (how silly indeed!). I told BK Jagdish Chander that it was not with regard but rather showing disregard to God when asking a translator to help Him understand what the spiritual aspirant has spoken. According to BK Jagdish Chander, Shiv Baba is actually omniscient and knows the hidden questions of your mind before you ask Him. Now, do you believe in it???

Now, another question. If Shiv Baba were to be channelled by a Western medium, would He be able to speak in English or French. There are so many so called advanced and enlightened souls who have ascended to other planets who keep utilizing earthly mediums to dictate their knowldge. For example, Lightgrid speaks of enlightened souls like El Morya, Saint Germain, Christ, Qwan Yin, Gautam Buddha, Dwaj Khul etc ... I wonder if Shiv Baba knows such enlightened souls? May be they are all partners of the same Network!!!

"It is a pleasure to stand upon the shore, and to see ships tossed upon the sea: a pleasure to stand in the window of a castle, and to see a battle and the adventures thereof below: but no pleasure is comparable to standing upon the vantage ground of truth ... and to see the errors, and wanderings, and mists, and tempests, in the vale below."

Truth will always be victorious in the long run. Sathyame Vijayate!!!
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ex-l

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Re: Why does God need a translator?

Post20 Nov 2012

Dev Anand wrote: If Shiv Baba were to be channelled by a Western medium, would He be able to speak in English or French. There are so many so called advanced and enlightened souls who have ascended to other planets who keep utilizing earthly mediums to dictate their knowldge. For example, Lightgrid speaks of enlightened souls like El Morya, Saint Germain, Christ, Qwan Yin, Gautam Buddha, Dwaj Khul etc.... I wonder if Shiv Baba knows such enlightened souls? May be they are all partners of the same Network!!!

I have never heard of "Lightgrid" but, yes, I have heard of many masterly spiritualist speak of "enlightened souls" like El Morya, Saint Germain, Qwan Yin, Dwaj Khul etc and many level of spirituality too. To take it further, I've even heard them speak of positions such as "The Christ" as being a status, or a "job" to put it in simple terms, that many souls reach ... and then ascend even higher.

However, we can only speculate what they might be ... how can we ever *know*?

When you read or listen to some of the talks given by such masterly spiritualist, or allegedly channeled spirit beings, to be quite honest, the BKs' BapDada does not really stand out. Given all the indulgence and fallibility surrounding him, in my opinion, he does not even rate as particularly high.

Correct me if I am wrong but I just don't see any great depth of wisdom let alone poetry in what he speaks ... and whatever good their might be, it is offset by all the bigotry, insults and plainly blatant ignorance and errors. I am sorry but there is no excuse "God" getting things wrong, such as the population of the world or the date of Destruction by 50 odd years. It is just *so* wrong it is a bad joke on any believer.

To be frank, I am waiting for the twist or the sting in the tail ... when the BK discover BapDada is not "Godly" at all but something the Christians would call "Satanic" or the American shamans a "trickster".

There you go. I have placed my bet.

The whole things a test and if you *really* believe it is "God", and subject yourself to the old ignorant and corrupt fools who do, you have failed *badly*. The joke is on you.

To "pass" is to wake up, leave and walk away from it all ... and become immune to cultic indoctrination.

I don't even think Bap or Dada are "a god", never mind "The God" ... and the fact that the dead Lekhraj Kirpalani is not over his god fantasy is proof of the old TIbetan saying, "just because you are dead does not mean you are enlightened". I could accept that he is a level or two above the ordinary person because of his life time accomplishments ... but now we have a more accurate picture of the early, "intoxicated" period, he absolutely level of spirituality has to be questioned.

Honestly, has *any* BK truly risen to the status of a "great mind" by world standards? Have the BKs *truly* produced anything of great value in this world?
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Mr Green

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Re: Why does God need a translator?

Post20 Nov 2012

I agree, walk away and attain the next level.
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howiemac

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Re: Why does God need a translator?

Post30 Jan 2013

Dev Anand wrote:If Shiv Baba were to be channelled by a Western medium, would He be able to speak in English or French.

Here is my interpretation.

Shiv Baba - so they say - takes no body of any sort, beyond the orange egg of light that contains his pure and perfect sanskars, the "original sanskars of the soul". Accordingly he has no worldly experience whatsoever, let alone language.

Brahma Baba may indeed be inspired - at times - by Shiv Baba when speaking, but the words - in Sakar days - were those of Brahma Baba.

Now Brahma Baba is an angelic ghost in the white light Subtle Regions. There is no sound there. No language. No words. Communication is by telepathy. So how can he speak through Dadi Gulzar? I would say that the words are those of Dadi Gulzar's, who, being unconscious in trance, is being used accurately as an instrument by Brahma Baba. In angelic ghost form, he retains some of the sanskars and personality from his corporeal life, and using these he can - through telepathy - inspire Gulzar's body and unconscious mind into forming language.

Other such angelic ghosts communicate likewise through their mediums.

If Gulzar was a native French speaker, BapDada would speak in French.

I have had many subtle meetings and interactions with Brahma Baba, in various forms, including extensive "more real than real life" visionary interactions in my pre-BK days. I have never heard him utter a word, in Hindi or any other language. Communication is always by telepathic transmission of thought forms.
ex-l wrote:To "pass" is to wake up, leave and walk away from it all ... and become immune to cultic indoctrination.

I agree fully with this. Interestingly (for me anyway), on my last visit to Madhuban, as I sat by myself in deep Yoga in the history hall, BapDada himself advised me (telepathically) to do just that! I was rather astonished at the time, but now I think he doesn't believe in his tales or the BKWSU mission any more than we do, but is just "jollying" them along, as he is in karmic bondage to do so: having created a monster he now has to feed it, always trying to calm it down (but the monster, of course, does not listen).

I get the feeling that he (the personality of Brahma Baba, not the soul) is slowly fading away, and accordingly he is unable to change course now, just repeat the same old mantras, with ever-diminishing verve and detail. This is just speculation - BapDada remains an enigma, and his mission with the BKWSU remains a mystery to me - he has always appeared to me as utterly benevolent and supportive, on a personal level, but the monster he has created now has a very different character indeed.

Just for the record, I don't hang out with him any more! In fact, he advised me not to: the message was along the lines of "you don't need me now - you can look after yourself".

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