Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK center

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mail2sundareee

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Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK center

Post04 Feb 2013

Saturday (Feb 02, 2013) I went to the BK center in my native (Kumbakonam, Tamil Nadu) on my friend's insistence. He wanted me not to miss the class that day, and that was 'Bapadada Milan' from Shantivan at Abu Road broadcasted by 'Peace of Mind' channel (a new channel especially for the BK I guess). The broadcasting (actually deferred LIVE program) started at 7 pm and ended at 9.30pm. I could reach the center by 7.45 pm and left at 8.30 pm due to some personal business. For the first time, I saw Gulzar Dadi speaking. Since I came late, I could not watch God's soul coming into Gulzar and her reaction.

Following are my observations (personal only).
    She whispered throughout the session (class/experience/whatever!)
    There are 100 distinct words (like bachi, BapDada,etc) and those words were repeated many times and framed into new sentences with different combinations. we can make several sentences using those words and I guess with several years of experience she could frame many such sentences.
    In the middle, she gave wishes by seeing people around 180 degrees.
    And also she asked, "who are the VIPs?" and "who are coming for the first time?", and asked them to "wave their hands (both) if they are happy".
    And sometimes she remain silent (sorry to say this - during that time I think she was thinking what sentence to frame next).
What am I trying to achieve: I just want to know if really God is speaking or just imposters with money/power wants to control the world.

saveyourlife

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post08 Feb 2013

What am I trying to achieve: I just want to know if really God is speaking or just imposters with money/power wants to control the world.

Be extremely and 100 percent sure that GOD is not at all speaking from Mount Abu, Rajasthan in India. It's a pity for those millions who feel that god is coming to earth to give this world a Godly message. I was also a poor victim once in my life to have this stupid feeling but thanks to the REAL GOD that I am out of this ****. It's a horrible act run by some people who are terrible in nature and can be best described as Spiritually MAD.

Take care and never ever go near to these people. They're the most INFECTIOUS species found on earth. A BIG BIG BEWARE !!!!!!!!!!!!

mail2sundareee

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post13 Feb 2013

So can anyone please confirm that only Gulzar is speaking and not God. And I am wondering why they want to do this? I guess the answer will be - MONEY, MONEY, MONEY only.

If any BK (current) reading this post - Can you please show me one little proof to believe that God is speaking?

I am not asking you to prove by changing my house into Gold/Diamond (as said by Sisters that in sathyuga the house will be made of diamond/gold!). Please provide me a very, very small proof - I will share my contact details (please send me a private message). I am staying in Chennai, Tamil Nadu, India. My friend (in Kumbakonam,Tamlnadu, India) is very much addicted to the center there and he is believing whatever they are saying in their daily class. I want to rescue him from this.

If any BK CANT prove that really God is speaking, I will assume that BK is some kind of organisation like AMWAY which dupes people to get money from them. If BK cant prove, there is no difference between AMWAY and Brahma Kumaris Group. If any current BK cant prove that God is speaking - I am planning to start a forum in my company's website and raise all my questions that I raised here.

(My company's head count is about two lakhs. I guess some may get aware of such group and may not join).

saveyourlife

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post18 Feb 2013

Amway is far far far better than this ******* cult brahmakumaris.

Henry

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post18 Feb 2013

There is confusion about the role of Dadi Gulzar... makes sense. Trance mediums are not too common in the Western world. I have been in the meetings and there is no doubt for me that a very powerful being takes over the body of Dadi Gulzar and speaks to and meets with the people in the hall. There is a subtle difference in her face whilst in trance and her voice changes a bit. After the session the soul of Dadi takes over again, the facial expression goes back to normal and the voice returns to what it was before. This may sound strange, but the temperature in the hall seems to increase a bit during the trance. The way the body moves is so very delicate and royal. So far for the purely physical aspects. The interaction is lovely and sweet, with an almost unnatural respect for all present. Its a mix of humility and royalty. It's as if you are seen as you are for the first time. If you enter the hall thinking this is a scam, not much will happen and you just see an old lady performing a strange act. Subtle energies can be easily blocked. Sometimes the process is referred to as homeopathic, meaning the garbage will come out before healing takes place. This can be quite disturbing. It happened to me after the first meeting and I was shocked by my own emerging negativity... Gradually you get used to it, but in itself the cleansing is not an easy process. All in all a lot of what can happen depends on our own intentions and convictions. The meetings act as a mirror for the soul. If you don't like what you see you can break the mirror of course.

dany

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post18 Feb 2013

Gulzar has been performing this show for so many years now, so she mastered it.

Have you heard of "self-hypnotism" ..? When you hypnotise your self and go on stage, you could even over-perform Michael Jackson ..!!
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ex-l

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post18 Feb 2013

Henry wrote:There is confusion about the role of Dadi Gulzar... makes sense. Trance mediums are not too common in the Western world.

I don't think there is any "confusion" at all. There are valid questions about what is happening but that is not the same as confusion. By "confusion" you appear to be simply saying people don't accept the BKs' version of what is going on.

I also think trance mediums are a lot more common in the Western world that most people thing. Practically every city has a spiritualist church or two, and a New Age center where you can witness them. The only difference is who they claim is being channelled.

You may not know this but a while ago we discovered that there was no Shiva in the BK religion until after 1950, or you might say 'conscious awareness' if you believe he was there. We have not yet found out when and how Shiva was introduced into the religion and why they believed or could sustain that he was not just a god, or a demi-god but had to be 'the God of all Religions'.

Although I agree Gulzar could just do the act under hypnosis by herself now ... and there was that strange confusion this season where she appeared to forget what she was doing and come back for a while ... I can also accept that some spirit being is being challenged. As ex-BKs, of course we know the BKs claim there are two spirits being channelled, Shiva and the ghost of Lekhraj Kirpalani. I can even agree that in various fields Lekhraj Kirpalani is an accomplished and charismatic human being.

However, I find the evidence for it being "The God of all Religions" weak ... mostly because of when he comes down to practical matters, he is wrong or does not know what he is talking about, e.g. 5,000 year cycles and false predictions of the End of the World. I cannot believe a high spirit never mind 'The God" would say such things.

If we are going to use a religious metaphor, the god of the BKs could equally easily being some "Luciferic" in nature, i.e. a powerful but misleading spirit.
The way the body moves is so very delicate and royal.

Most "royals" I know like hunting, fishing, driving fast cars and having sexual affairs outside of their marriage ... in the past, they used to spend most of them time smashing about in wars and killing each other (often children) ... what on earth are you talking about "royal" behaviour?

OK, I admit ... I am teasing you. You are BK supporter and are using the term "royal" in the BK sense of the world. You could just mean 'doing nothing much, but doing it slowly and patiently'.

One honest question though, do you speak Hindi well enough to understand what BapDada/Gulzar are saying and to have a sense of what class and how educated they are? Or were you listening through translators?
The interaction is lovely and sweet, with an almost unnatural respect for all present. Its a mix of humility and royalty. It's as if you are seen as you are for the first time.

How many times did you go? There are people here who met BapDada/Gulzar in the old days when one used to meet them one to one and have been many times. I'd let them comment on the meeting, but I'd also like to ask you ... did you never question why the meetings with BapDada and the entourage on the stage around him was so controlled?

I mean "controlled" in manner of who got to sit near him and who got to ask what question and so on.

To me, it looks like he is hardly challenged. There's nothing difficult going on. There's a lot of sucking up. A lot of people find the meeting quite disappointing and have no experience. And now it is a huge, aircraft hanger sized impersonal event ... I have no idea what has become like now.
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ex-l

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post19 Feb 2013

The reason I mention the early period, pre-Shiva, is that it is clear Lekhraj Kirpalani suffered from extreme delusions of grandeur and this has been a trend through the religion ever since ... everything has to be global, universal, the biggest, the best ... it's all whooshy, cloudy and expansive. And those are precisely the tendencies one would expect of a Luciferic influence.

So, yes, it can be powerful for some but where is it all going ... what purpose is it for ... what are the signs by which we should know it?

The other problem is many people experience nothing, even those full of faith, duty and devotion.

Now, the BKs cannot say why it is so variable (... and, BTW, it's not clear that "homeopathy" actually works, that is another BKism). All they can say if nothing happens is that the adherent "got what they needed", or "were being tested".

Those are a bit too easy a cop-out, aren't that? Never mind questioning whether or not BapDada has the ability to read and respond to everyone in the hall. Surely to suggest so is a bit of a wishful projection, is not it?

Would the BKs ever allow BapDada to be questioned and scrutinised by a genuinely intelligent person?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post19 Feb 2013

Henry wrote:.. there is no doubt for me that a very powerful being takes over the body of Dadi Gulzar and speaks to and meets with the people in the hall. There is a subtle difference in her face whilst in trance and her voice changes a bit. ... If you enter the hall thinking this is a scam, not much will happen and you just see an old lady performing a strange act.

I am one of those ex-l referred to "the old days when one used to meet them one to one and have been many times"..

Hi there Henry!

The first time I sat in front of "BapDada" and had one-to-one 'dristi,' the main thing I remember thinking was, "whether or not this god, it is a powerful being to be sure". I had about 14 other meetings over the years, most of them personal one-to-one meetings. Peculiar that he nearly always had to be told who I was, even though a few had occurred only a few days earlier and some even involved a two-way Q&A (of quite a few paragraphs when written down). But you know, old people and memory ... let alone dead ones!

That aside - if we juxtapose that experience that you also had ("... a very powerful being takes over ..."), together with your later statement, "you just see an old lady performing a strange act" - then one reasonable conclusion is that this is no more than the human equivalent of a rabbit in the spotlight.

As you may know, rabbits, deer and other animals at night will, at the onset of bright lights like a spotlight or car headlights, become suddenly mesmerised and just stand there staring into the light, losing perspective and objectivity and unable to distinguish what is really happening; often at the cost of their own lives as they are run down unintentionally, or intentionally shot by hunters.

I use the word "mesmerise" specifically because of the earlier comment by Dany about self-hypnotism before a performance. You can check out a few interesting posts here about hypnotism - but one thing about it is that only those willing to be hypnotised can be.

When you go to a doctor, and he pronounces something, you accept that, unless you have strong reason to think otherwise, because well, that's why you went! You listen sympathetically to the arguments put forward by those "on your side" of whatever - politics, football, religion, and less sympathetically to those from people on "the other side", or that you've disagreed with before. It is only human.

If you go to a show or a film just to have fun with some some friends, you are more likely to enjoy it than if you were dragged unwillingly by your parents when you wanted to be somewhere else.

When you meet "BapDada" as a BK you have already been hyping yourself and each other up to have an experience over and above your own meditation experiences (which become practice runs). Many BKs actually told me over the years they preferred their own meditations and never got anything from meeting BapDada. Some were even irritated by the "blessings' "BapDada" gave them which they found puerile and sexist!

jann

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post19 Feb 2013

You only think it is a powerful thing because it was already planted in your mind.

SEXIST???
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ex-l

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post19 Feb 2013

jann wrote:You only think it is a powerful thing because it was already planted in your mind.

I'll leave Pink Panther to clarify "sexist" comment, and be interested to read what he says about the 'fortune cookie-style' blessing BapDada give out to BKs. Great significance is applied to the messages by BKs who will then go off and aim to spend a year basing their efforts on them. They used to be individual, now they are group based, like astrological readings in newspaper and often just based on simple puns, e.g. if a group goes from the city of 'Leeds', he will say something like, "It the nature of the group to lead, so will you all become 'Leaders'?" or if it is 'New York', he will say, "The New York group have the speciality of making everything new, so emerge new service plans for the new year!"... at which point the faithful swoon at the depth of it all.

As to the efforts making the event feel more specially, I think there is a element to this that I refer to in the Sunk cost bias, effort justification & advance fee fraud but there is also a psychic experience of it too. Some people have really strong ones, vision, bodiless experiences etc. It still does not make it god though.


The BKs used to demand that you waited 6 months or a year of going every day to class and doing 4 am meditation before you got to go to Mount Abu and meet BapDada ... on top of the expense and excitement of going to "your (spiritual) family home in this world" to meet "god". An expense for which many, such as poorer South Americans or East Europeans, or I dare say Indians, might be a once in a lifetime experience. (Of course, if you were rich or famous, an IP or VIP, this process was made quicker and more flexible! Why?).

If a BK sinned during this period, i.e. broken one of the commandments, this period could be elongated again. I understand in the West they are a little bit slacker about this now but I don't know about India. I met one Brother who was a little simple but sincere and had been struggle with the principles for a year, then just before hand had a wet dream or jerked off and then was banned for another year.

After passing through that are you truly going to question whether it is God? Probably not. The demands will have already filtered out the skeptical. And are you going to lose face by admitting the "Emperors have no clothes on"? Probably not, you're going to want to hype it up to make it all worthwhile. On the other hand, non-celibate VIPs went straight away and I knew one "IP" who smuggled a bottle of whiskey in!

It is true many BKs did come away a little disappointed by the experience in the old days. Surely it must be worse now it is a noisy 'cattle truck' group experience in a hall full of flashing cameras and video making Indians. Many BKs had better experiences just meditating on their own.

Personally, in the hard light or reason, I really did not find BapDada that deep or interesting. He's awfully repetitive and seems to have some kind of "Generalissimo" complex that does not appeal to me ... all that 'saluting of the troops' stuff.

Is that truly what God would do?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post20 Feb 2013

ex-l wrote:I'll leave Pink Panther to clarify "sexist" comment, and be interested to read what he says about the 'fortune cookie-style' blessing BapDada give out to BKs. Great significance is applied to the messages by BKs who will then go off and aim to spend a year basing their efforts on them. They used to be individual, now they are group based, like astrological readings in newspaper and often just based on simple puns, e.g. if a group goes from the city of 'Leeds', he will say something like, "It the nature of the group to lead, so will you all become 'Leaders'?" or if it is 'New York', he will say, "The New York group have the speciality of making everything new, so emerge new service plans for the new year!"... at which point the faithful swoon at the depth of it all.

I agree with the use of puns as lazy and predictable - and use of key words which allow the listener to invest as much meaning into it as they want while feeling it is personally relevant. Many "blessings' were like that.

I think there is also a little of that "feedback" thing that many "psychics" and "readers" do, they pick up something from you, body language, or things they already know or were told, and amplify it back. e.g. Shiloo told "BapDada" that I was on my way to shoot some film at the Kumbh Mela so my "blessing" that year was about being a projector!!

I think the drishti part is also "BapDada" sussing the person and working out something applicable to say.

I used to always sit very erect in proper half-lotus - a bit of a hatha yogi - and so "BapDada" said "You are Mahavir" (the founder of the Jains who is depicted in that pose or full padmasana). At the time I thought "WOW! - then thought - "hang on, does that mean I will be the founder of the jain religion in the next Kalpa, so down in the number wise status"? I only cottoned on the posture was the likely cue much later.

Sexism: - males were always warriors and mahaviras and pandavas, females were always world mothers, shiv-shaktis, etc - that's fairly straight forward.

But when I mentioned it earlier, I was referring to particular times when certain women, usually pretty ones, in front of "BapDada" were told, "You are a doll" or "a Japanese Doll" - this being (needing to be) explained to them as somehow being a compliment and a reference to the smooth porcelain of Japanese dolls - of which there were a few in Madhuban that had been brought as souvenirs from a trip taken to Japan in the 1950s I think.

One English "Sister" was particularly upset when this was repeated to her on consecutive visits. She also said that the other "blessing" she'd previously received was not any more inspiring either. She felt demeaned and not seen for who she was - an intelligent woman with many other qualities. She felt herself as being depersonalised, objectified, stereotyped etc.

Yep, she left the BKs after that trip (maybe not having individual meetings is a better tactic!).
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ex-l

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post20 Feb 2013

The only "blessing" I can remember getting was, "Good Soul".

I remember thinking, "Is that it? ... What was that supposed to mean?" Was I just a poor to average 'pass' and somewhat acceptable ... or was I just so spiritual and cool that I did not all that childish praise stuff? And that was about all the specific guidance and encouragement one got for the year ...

Folks used to invest so much importance into them. It sounds like what you'd say to a dog now. "Good boy ... have a biscuit".

mail2sundareee

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post20 Feb 2013

So till now I did not get any reply from any current BKs regarding the proof. I got this answer from one of my friends
    "(1)WHY DO POLICE CARRY ID PROOF? SO THAT CITIZENS ARE NOT DUPED BY PEOPLE WHO POSE AS POLICE AND DUPE THE INNOCENT.
    (2) IF I SAY GOD DOES NOT CARE TO GIVE PROOF/SHOW ID, IT MEANS HE DOES NOT CARE FOR DEVOTEES. SO BY SAYING THIS I SHOW HIM IN POOR LIGHT.
    (3) THE QUESTION IS NOT IF GOD WANTS TO GIVE PROOF OR NOT. QUESTION IS, "HAS HE REALLY INCARNATED?' IF I SAY HE HAS, IT IS UP TO ME TO PROVIDE PROOF. THAT IS IF I DO NOT WANT TO BE COUNTED AS ONE AMONG MYRIAD CLAIMANTS.
    (4) I REPEAT THE PROOF GIVEN MUST BE INDISPUTABLE SO AS NOT TO DISAPPOINT THOUSANDS. IF SUCH A PROOF IS NOT AVAILABLE, BETTER TO KEEP MUM (AS OF NOW)."
What is going on here (in India)? Can anyone with enough money and power can claim that he is God and no one can do anything against them and people losing their life, career and wealth? When will these guys (BK) stop cheating?

Frankly, I am not such a powerful guy to do anything against them in terms of money or political power. I am really worried about my friend who is canvassed and his career is being affected a lot. And I am unable to prevent him from going to the daily class. I also cant leave him just like that and let him rot in BK centers.

I am still thinking what to do next to save my dear friend.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Watching BapDada Milan (meeting with God) at local BK ce

Post21 Feb 2013

mail2sundareee wrote:"HAS HE REALLY INCARNATED?' IF I SAY HE HAS, IT IS UP TO ME TO PROVIDE PROOF. THAT IS IF I DO NOT WANT TO BE COUNTED AS ONE AMONG MYRIAD CLAIMANTS.

All you have to do is change the definition of "God". The BKs are neither the first nor will be the last to do this.

"God" can be anything you want "God" to be.
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