Bhakti, Knowledge and Opinion

I like this site because it accomplishes something. It forces us (BKs, PBKs, ex-BK and non-BKs) to be more responsible and to think in a more rational human way and be sensitive enough to the feelings of others. I've noticed though that this site is not immune to the acts and effects of Bhakti. There is so much Bhakti in this site. Let's take the face value of some BK teachings. We have PROVED many years ago beyond reasonable doubt, that some teachings of BKs are false. Have PPKs PROVED anything at all to claim that their interpretation of Murlis is far better than BK's or is the truth? It still remains open. Advanced Knowldege is only a BELIEF. IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN AT ALL. Some BK Knowledge were proven to be false. Now, which is better in terms of validity, a false BK Knowledge or Advanced Knowledge that is only a belief? Take your pick. It just reminds me of a Christian Bhakti reading a Bible passage to prove their faith is the truth.

In my opinion, PBKs have not proved anything at all and so what is so advanced in the Advanced Knowledge? No fulfillment of Teachings means no proof. The proofs they are mentioning are only on the level of Murli words. But who knows if Murlis are Knowledge at all? Advanced Knowledge is just a correction of missed BK points, an exposition of altered Murli statements, a re-interpretation of BK points, a continued 100% belief in the Murlis after some elements in it have been proven false. It's just basically offering another faith-based risk investment.

But now let's discuss about principles and values (responsibility, honesty, humility, etc.), and share thoughts, experiences, insights, and opinions, then I think we can move better and further. That to me is the direct application of knowledge, devoid of Bhakti. We only need to know the principles and forget about that which cannot be proved in our lifetime. It's good to share one's opinion/beliefs, but we are sometimes deluded in the Bhakti of proving.

~tinydot

All the divine virtues will enter our life only if we remember the LORD. Are we doing it?

IBHS
MITRA

We have PROVED many years ago beyond reasonable doubt, that some teachings of BKs are false.

What has been 'proved' to be false?

I cannot think of anything, only that things have been proved to be misunderstood by BKs.

What has been 'proved' to be false?

I cannot think of anything, only that things have been proved to be misunderstood by BKs.

Misunderstood by BKs = some teachings of BKs = false.

That to me is the same thing.

Misunderstood by BKs = some teachings of BKs = false

That to me is the same thing.

OK, I see where you are coming from. I don't completely equate teachings of Shiva/Murli with teachings of BKs, but I guess most do at this time.

:) All the divine virtues will enter our life only if we remember the LORD. Are we doing it?

Well, I don't know the answer to a general question. But are we doing it here in this forum? How can we forget the Supreme in here? He is the main topic here. Spend 1 hour typing nonsense in this forum, and you would think of Him some deal. Spend 1 hour of typing, accussing or denying Him and you would have thought of Him a great deal. Sit 1 hour in Amrit Vela sleeping, and we get nothing.

I apologized for not remembering Him when I am sleeping on my bed. But I don't know if I dream of Him, maybe sometimes, but I forget all my dreams.

OK, I see where you are coming from. I don't completely equate teachings of Shiva/Murli with teachings of BKs, but I guess most do at this time.

I agree, John...

Anyways, I got to sleep and be back tomorrow.

:) All the divine virtues will enter our life only if we remember the LORD. Are we doing it?

Yes and how accurate is our 'doing it'?

When BKs used to remember Shiva in the body of Brahma, why do they now teach to remember as point of light in Paramdham ... ? Indeed, are we really doing it?

This "remembrance" is an intriguing area. Actually we remember God (in His many forms and shapes) for several thousands of years, we call out to Him in whatever Bhakti form, then He pops up one day conveniently in a body, and then tells us to remember Him. And when we do fully remember Him accurately (point of light/ inside Chariot), it will be time for Him to take leave. Do we remember God or does He forget us ? Or God exists only for one birth only, and for the rest of the time (4900 years) there is no God.

No offence intended here but, I seem to remember a Murli point saying 'don't call me Lord' or words to that effect. Does the term Lord apply to a lesser being than God? Any thoughts?

Nothing has been proven true in the teachings ... and to say you'll get all virtues if you remember the Lord is, well ... something nice to believe.

I say this having met people who claim to have been doing this for over 60 years and they certainly do not have all virtues.

I have also meet others who are not and never have been in the habit of remembering the Lord who have many virtues but not all.

No offence intended here but, I seem to remember a Murli point saying 'don't call me Lord' or words to that effect. Does the term Lord apply to a lesser being than God? Any thoughts?

I think this is mentioned because Lord is a term of worship or 'Bhakti'.

It is said in Murlis how truly great people will write 'your humble servant' and I believe ShivaBaba is making the connection that he is here to serve. With the possibility that those following the teachings will become equal, not below. It is also mentioned that it is the dieties who become worship-worthy and worshipful not Shiva himself.

and to say you'll get all virtues if you remember the Lord is well ... something nice to believe.

Do you believe in principle that this is possible, even though you haven't seen practical evidence within the BKSWU.

The principle of remembrance Mitra mentioned is a good thing. We know what he meant, and I think there is no reason to play the Bhakti of Semantics. However, Bhakti is not really a bad thing. My family does that everyday. Some words though are very exact and cannot be substituted, like truth, fact, belief. I will take his phrase to mean "remembrance of Shiva".

~tinydot

Do you believe in principle that this is possible, even though you haven't seen practical evidence within the BKSWU.

Yes, I couldn't knock the theory, but I would feel sceptical I suppose. I wouldn't knock anyone for trying either.

Shiva comes for one reason, to make us soul conscious, that is it, simple. Once we are soul conscious, or have enough know how to become so, there is no need for Shiva to play that role.

God does not NEED us, it is the other way, up to a certain point at least. God says that we are greater, so what does that tell us about Shiva? Are we to accept that we are greater, or should we deny this and continue to put that one on a pedestal thereby creating distance between child and parent? I don't remember ever worshipping my lokik Father, or begging from him either, though, through being in his company, I am coloured by his personality.

"Like Father like son"