Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post03 Mar 2017

Many people have commented upon - and I suspect if they were to be honest have been deeply disappointed by, if not actually jealous of - the inner circles monopoly and exploitation of the BapDada on stage during the melas at Mount Abu.

I have to agree with them that it is unenlightened behaviour especially from such individuals who had decades of direct personal contact with it/them/Lekhraj Kirpalani.

If I was them, I'd be putting others forward, not exploiting the god spirit for my own benefit, asserting "my" importance on the basis of my closeness and control over it.

The other thing anyone with any brains would be perturbed by ... is that so much of the monopoly and exploitation is about such plainly moronic or purely business levell issues.

I mean why - if you really have god corked in Sister Gulzar's bottle - don't you engage him in some serious discussions or even set up some serious conversation with leading philosophers/scientists/intellectuals etc? In other words, people really worth inspiring.

For example, to allow him to be questioned and challenged ... over the claims, teachings and anamolies that have been made?

Is that not more to BKism, nevermind life, than "bache bache" and Shiv Shakti Army flag waving?

Eric, I think it was, recently commented on something as simple as the artlessness of a junior Didi switching the microphone off "on God" mid-speach ... Honestly, anyone who makes to a Baba Milan and then does not leave afterwards really is utterly fooling themselves.

For me the clincher that this is not god is the evidence of his leading products ... the activities of the BK inner circle.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post04 Mar 2017

Was it ever "special" for you ... or was it stage managed by the Seniors even back then?

Both.

There was always a minder at the time of meetings, usually Shiloo or Shashi, sometimes Nirwair, and others. They also acted as interpreters.

And face-to-face dristi can be intense, (it can be anything you bring to it) as many other similar situations, researchers, advertisers and performance artists have discovered (e.g. Marina Abramovich who ”gives” profound experiences without any presumptive, expectation creating, teachings, just the mere act of looking at each other).

Personal meetings for us at the time involved one-on-one dristi for about 30 seconds then anything from a sentence to a number of sentences called ”blessings”. Usually they were platitudes - "do you realise how lucky you are?” " You are one of the chosen?” etc etc.

But sometimes BD-Gulzar (whoever) did this thing which I did not realise at the time is a ‘trick’ done by many a sideshow huckster, guru, ‘clairvoyant” etc - the ability to ”read” people and tell them what they ’need’ to hear so it sounded amazingly personal and insightful.

Sometimes it was spot on, I mostly was given quite ‘unique’ ones, some of which made me feel ”special", a cut above. But sometimes what was said was so way off, either irrelevant or generic; the recipient was insulted by the glib and shallow, (dare i say?) body conscious content of their "personal blessing”. Some might be called "politically incorrect" these days e.g. blond haired, blue eyed English woman BK, single mum (initials JD) who saved for years to finally get there for her once in a lifetime personal meeting with ’god’ only to have ‘him’ say, not once or twice but thrice, the same thing - you are like a porcelain doll". She told me later how empty that made her feel, then angry.

”He" often said the same to Japanese women BKs, called them "Japanese dolls”. They went away confused. Many people were told the same stock standard phrases, almost BK fortune cookie stuff, even in subsequent visits they were told the same thing which many found disappointing.

What started to make me wonder was, after a number of years visiting and at least double that number of relatively lengthy personal meetings (I was one of the few who actually conversed with BapDada, commenting in return or asking a question), BD-Gulzar would still need to be told who I was as if it was a first encounter.
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ex-l

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post04 Mar 2017

Pink Panther wrote:What started to make me wonder was, after a number of years visiting and at least double that number of relatively lengthy personal meetings (I was one of the few who actually conversed with BapDada, commenting in return or asking a question), BD-Gulzar would still need to be told who I was as if it was a first encounter.

Ah, well, you see ... God is the only soul who does not have a sanskar of remembering as he is the only soul who does not have to remember in the previous Confluence Age!!!

Problem solved. Now, stop thinking and asking questions it's not "yog-yukt"! (joke)

Did you ever ask it why?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post05 Mar 2017

Yes. And the answers were varied but were always equivocations and speculations.
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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post06 Mar 2017

Was that true in the beginning too? Did the god spirit really have no memory from day to day or year to year? How did the early BK folk fit that with the idea that this is the ocean of knowledge and can memorize all this Gyan but not names or faces of people? Even if its at a soul level, when I see the videos of BapDada being introduced to Mohini, Janaki etc.... it does not compute for me... these are souls he ought to recognize.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post07 Mar 2017

EricCartman wrote: BapDada being introduced to Mohini, Janaki etc.... it does not compute for me... these are souls he ought to recognize.
That’s news. Was that something you saw directly, more than once? When I was around the BKs the Seniors like them were always recognised. It may be that senility is setting in or that Gulzar is doped up with painkillers or something?
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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post07 Mar 2017

I saw it directly in a live video transmission of BapDada milan around Aug-Sep 2016. I only saw 2 milans, one live streamed and the other live. My experience with the live one is at the start of this thread.

In the live stream, BapDada was being introduced to pretty much all the Seniors gathered on the stage. In the live one as well, Seniors were introduced by the announcer.
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ex-l

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post07 Mar 2017

It's a case of The Emperor's Clothes, is not it? Except they haven't given the little boys pointing it out a job yet.

I suppose you could look at the archetype of the "little boy" psychoanalytically too ...
From that day on, the Emperor gave the little boy an important job in his palace because he was the only person that had told the truth. And, whenever the Emperor needed advice he would always ask the little boy first.

BK-emperor.png
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Pink Panther

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post08 Mar 2017

That I’d like to see! Maybe ex-l as chief adviser to Dadi Janki! :D
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Mann

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post23 Apr 2017

The last Baba Milan which was on 10th April was cancelled because Gulzar was sick so she couldn't make it to Abu, so What did the clowns at Madhuban do? They replayed an older video of previous Milan which was telecasted live on pmtv too.

The video had BapDada address the same parties (Andhra & Maharashtra) which had actually come this time too ... And the stage the "decorated" with all the "Seniors" on the Diamond Hall stage, watching the video on a TV. The rest watched on the gaint screens on either side ...

Surprisingly when BapDada/ Gulzar asked to raise hands ... like fools they did! When double foreigners were asked to get up ... like robots they all did, but confused where to look at? Seniors wavelength coming from the stage or their ghost spirit smiling from the screens ...

All others too got up on their turns to wave at the screens, clapped including the fat zone-in-charges in the front row. Putting up a show !

It seems even if Gulzar doesn't make it to the next season, the show will go on ... BTW, she is really sick and admitted to the ICU of Breach Candy in Mumbai ...
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human being

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post14 Jan 2019

I completely agree with Mr. Cartman's opinion about BK GOD spirit being an energy body of emotions and intellect.

My explaination of the phenomenon might not sound very palatable, especially if you want to explain it using psychology/intellectualism mainly. I had 5 BapDada milans but being an average Indian middle class male of 19-20 years of age, the crowd of thousands did not help, however, sensitivity to such extra sensory phenomenon varies from person to person and also with a persons' state of mind. I had better experiences while at my home. I guess the thing that really saved me was that I had such intense experience from a different psychic source before, so I could compare the two experiences and see the different impacts they had on my consciousness.

I believe that Dada Lekhraj being a wealthy man of little spiritual wisdom and raised in an atmosphere of orthodoxy and superstition acquired some sort of 'Tantrik Sidhhi' from somewhere which enabled him to excercise a certain level of influence on other people's consciousness (I am using a simplistic definition of consciousness/soul to avoid unnecessary complications in presenting my not so intellectually appealing argument). Or his own consciousness got under the influence of some other such being who is powerful but not enlightened and just wants to make as many 'souls' dependent/subservient to him as possible.

Many 'tantrics' do that and I have a few hypothesis to explain why they do so but I believe that it is quite important to discuss this phenomenon to really explain the crux of this issue/problem as BapDada is the bedrock of BK belief-systems' foundation, and once people realize that that is not GOD - or any realized soul for that matter - they could be easily saved from the group's clutches and from other similar phenomenon in future.
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ex-l

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post14 Jan 2019

human being wrote:I believe that Dada Lekhraj being a wealthy man of little spiritual wisdom and raised in an atmosphere of orthodoxy and superstition acquired some sort of 'Tantrik Sidhhi' from somewhere which enabled him to excercise a certain level of influence on other people's consciousness ...

or his own consciousness got under the influence of some other such being who is powerful but not enlightened and just wants to make as many 'souls' dependent/subservient to him as possible.

No need to "believe", you've stated a historical fact. And I think the answer is "both".

The BKs have buried the truth - as usual - under the guise that Lekhraj Kirpalani "had many (12?) gurus" ... but it is part of the historical record that while he was in Calcutta, he went to see a "Bengali Saddhu" and paid him a fortune to receive some kind of initiation *after which* all the weirdness started happening. Including the wearing of eyeshadow (kohl) which was supposedly magically charged (and which Gulzar still wears, presumably in memory of it).

See, here or here. Also the BKs original propaganda, here.

This is referred to in the old books from the 1940s and I have had it confirmed by an old SIndhi who was alive at the time. From memory, the sum was £10,000. The details are on the forum.

I agree with you entirely on your deductions, and your strategic approach, eg "don't deny there is some spiritual energy/entity involved, just point out why it cannot be god". For example, the huge sum of money paid for an initiation is one example. A true master, or a true god, would not do so.

I would extrapolate further to say, part of the problem was that Lekhraj Kirpalani just wasn't ready for any such initiation, hence it went to his ego, super inflating it until he became Krishna, Narayan, Brahma and Vishnu in his own mind ... and the silly girls and uneducated old ladies believed it ... because many of them were having such pronounced psychic experiences.

And, there again, the experiences they were having were much different from how "official history" records them.

They were very disturbing to the community.

Although some deny the possiibility of the existence of "spirits", again the original BK history is full of them, eg Piyu speaking through the spirits mediums (who later left).

My (working) theory is that this Bengal saddhu, opened some/one of Lekhraj Kirpalani chakras, initiated Lekhraj Kirpalani into some kind of relationship with a spirit being who, like you say, was not highly evolved.

A jinn (genie, asura) or whatever you want to call it.

I also think the BK bhagats *severely* over inflate Lekhraj Kirpalani's religious and philosophical abilities and dedication.

In the original documents, his partner is on record saying, "Lekhraj Kirpalani was not a moral man" in an affidavit. That is quite a strong thing to say ... hence the attraction of a lower spirit being who, like Lekhraj Kirpalani, sought power and wealth.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post15 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote: For example, the huge sum of money paid for an initiation is one example. A true master, or a true god, would not do so.

Why shouldn't God make a profit ? (prophet!)

Isn’t capitalism the divinely ordained economic system?

If you look at the Economic Kalpa Tree, all religions branch off into different money making ventures, the fatter the branch the more successful it has become profit. Look at the Vatican, the Saudi Salafists looking to spread their ”wealth”, the success of the Prosperity Gospel in the USA. Remember the cash, gold and jewels in Sai Baba’s basement or Osho’s appreciation of Rolls Royce (because its good for my voice ...) or the BK landholdings (does anyone really know what their combined assets are worth?).

The tiny twigs and leaves on the economic Kalpa tree are those suckers who forego riches and organised groups believing that life is about something else. The economic Kalpa tree proves that organised religion is God's will. The BKs see themselves as the roots, all wealth will trickle down to them.
:shock:
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ex-l

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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post15 Jan 2019

Pink Panther wrote:The BKs see themselves as the roots, all wealth will trickle down to them.

A recent post that underlined donated property values was a very pertinent one and probably underlines how the BKs will survive.

As their numbers decline, through demographics or yet another failure of Destruction to come and save them, they will be able to sell off all the properties one by one and use that capital to live off, retreating back to headquarters. They will change BKism yet again to become just some weekend thing, like the Christians with their Sunday morning 'take' on people's lives.

Unfortunately, they were not able to capitalise on "Value[s] Education", as other gurus with more vigorous following and better political connections cashed in on it, so "Spritual counselling" seems to be the latest thing, on top of corporate training ... a sort of quasi-, new agey therapy. Oprah meet Sister Shivani, or something.

Just another product in the market place of curious people with too much, who need to learn they don't need anything, and don't have to hand over money and free labour to a religion to get it.
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Re: Madhuban and BapDada Milan Experience

Post17 Jan 2019

This "Madhubhan Experience" will continue in the coming years, with recycle and media show, because
    1. It is a fun filled vacation, with food and lodging included
    2. For the inner circle and "free labor", it is free food, free lodging. And either power display or tour around "vacation spots"
    3. The majority of money is taken from those who actually don't travel to Madhubhanm so more impetus to move into high gear on Marketing. Hi tech video/audio, various courses/sessions that require fees
    4. Fear of losing face, if you come out of this drama, with friends and family
    5. Similar outfits have continued to survive and thrive. Proving that there are many who still fall into this trap, for reasons some obvious and some personal
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