Who created Shiv Baba

Scientific challenges to the beliefs promoted by the Brahma Kumaris so called "World Spiritual University"
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awareness_being

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Mar 2017

Well, thanks you so much ex-I and Pink panther for your replies, you guys have talked many things about Buddhism in your replies. Now before saying anything about Bhuddism and any other stuff, I centainly consider myself a Bhoddhisatva, means a sleeping Bhudda. Yes, my words are criticised many times by many people, but should that create any impact on me!

Now let me share few more things, people created Buddhism out of Buddhas preaching and talk! Buddha never created any religion. Yes, we can label his preaching as some kind of knowledge towards a path of going closer to TRUTH!

On the path of reaching closer to TRUTH, only a stage where you don't experience anything that makes you feel that you exist is something that matters, I am pointing towards experience of TOTAL death while having body, and that happens.

Buddhism is not the only path to that, Jainism and Hinduism are the other two paths through which one can reach there what I am talking about. But one has to be honest with him/herself, things are very clear, we already posses all that we want! Just going within deeper is what is required ... :).
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Mar 2017

Has Lekhraj Kirpalani or BapDada been "recognised" as a Buddha/Boddhisattva, or existing within their pantheons, by any Buddhists?

If I am honest, I think there's a lot of tiresome, outdated stuff in Buddhism and I don't have much time for anything that is not practical these days.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Mar 2017

Yep. As Awareness_being said, the Buddha wasn’t a Buddhist.

The organised religions and various cultures that have built up around it are not different to those built up around other teachings and teachers, greater and lesser (The documentary ”Life of Brian” shows that dynamic very well! ;-)) and the subsequent abuses that go with it. The violent racist monks in Myanmar calling for persecution and expulsion of Rohingya are a case in point, the pederasty in some theravadan temples are no different to the behaviour of the Roman Catholic child abuses etc.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post19 Mar 2017

One of the nice thing I like about Buddhism is its emphasis on ethics. Amongst its first and foremost precepts is
    I undertake the rule of training which consists in abstention from false speech
The fourth of the five basic precepts (Maryadas) focuses on avoiding false speech of all kinds, with the positive counterpart of truthfulness.

Truth is not only emphasised because lies can be harmful, but because Enlightenment is seen as a state in which truth is understood. Subtler forms of truth-telling involve not distorting the truth by exaggeration, selection, or evasion. It goes further than just undermining truth by lying but also not listening to, or not believing, someone else who is speaking the truth.
As recorded in the Pali Canon, the historical Buddha taught that Right Speech had four parts:
    Abstain from false speech; do not tell lies or deceive.
    Do not slander others or speak in a way that causes disharmony or enmity.
    Abstain from rude, impolite, or abusive language.
    Do not indulge in idle talk or gossip.

The BKs have not evolved to such a level yet. They cannot afford to because their cult is funded by unethical behaviour based on extensively promoted and defended falsehoods (as my recent posts on the latest revision of their own cult's history never mind the world's history). For them, as a tricky business man might tell you, what matters is a "good story", a good sales pitch.

It does not matter to the BKs whether it is *true*, whether *anything* is true, all that matters is whether or not it *works*. Expedience rather than ethics defines BKism. The BK leaders appear to be afraid that their cult will implode and collapse if a truth, the truth, comes out. If it stops working, they just add a new layer, a new spin, a new twist, borrow or steal a new concept from some other religion.

So let's head back on topic from Buddhism ...

From a review of 'Sapiens', a book by the Israeli historian Yuval Noah Harari, (who it is said practices Vipassana meditation for two hours every day). The book uses a broad multi-disciplinary approach that bridges the gaps between history, biology, philosophy and economics.
At the centre of the book is the contention that what made Homo sapiens the most successful human being, supplanting rivals such as Neanderthals, was our ability to believe in shared fictions.

Religions, nations and money, Harari argues, are all human fictions that have enabled collaboration and organisation on a massive scale.

Harari writes ...
Yuval Noah Harari wrote:Homo sapiens rules the world because it is the only animal that can believe in things that exist purely in its own imagination, such as gods, states, money and human rights.
Almost 99 percent you realize is just stories in our minds. This is also true of history. Most people, they just get overwhelmed by the religious stories, by the nationalist stories, by the economic stories of the day, and they take these stories to be the reality.

BKism is a shared fiction. To become a BK, all you have to do is unquestioningly accept their "shared fiction" is the Truth™. That the delusion is not just "knowledge", but The Knowledge™. The highest knowledge on earth ever!

The question is, "Who created Shiv Baba?" Or, perhaps better, "Who named and defined the concept, the story, of Shiva Baba within BKism around 1955/1956 when it was finally coined?" And why?

Why the shift from Piyu, who seemingly had gone silent, to Shiva? ... And now the BKs claim Piyu is Shiva and Shiva was Piyu.

The BKs don't care on details as long as their "shared fiction" works. As long as the money and property and land still pours in. As long as it keep enslaving castes of primarily female free labourers.
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awareness_being

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post20 Mar 2017

Dear ex-I,

A Buddha is simply a BEING who has realized him/herself away from body and mind. Any BK or Bramha Baba cannot be considered as a Buddha simply because their practice of SELF realization is more based on going beyond the body USING the mind. Now mind is required, but only in marketplace, not on the path of going closer to TRUTH. Even if any BK says Bhramha Baba was a Buddha or may be more than a Buddha, well one has to personally think and accept Brahma Baba whatever he/she wants to! I have shared my views...:)

Now, another thing which I agree with you is that you cannot trust many people in spirituality because, in India, spirituality has become a business. Understanding on The Knowledge shared by enlightened beings who have appeared on earth is helpful, but more than that, your own experience with life is of more importance. Your own life is your GURU. One has to just live life with utmost AWARENESS and in the PRESENT moment ... :).
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post20 Mar 2017

Let us remember what the BKs and their god spirit claim about Lekhraj Kirpalani ... that he was more than twice as "spiritual" or divine (however one can measure such a thing!) as Gautama Buddha, and that Gautama Buddha based his philosophy and religion on a *partial* understanding of Lekhraj Kirpalani's or the BKs' religion. Such is their astounding vanity.

According to the BKs, the Buddha never achieved enlightenment or release from this world/samsara ... and won't until now during Destruction. The BKs claim the Buddha, and his "host soul" or Chariot (the BKs claim the Buddha was a psychic channeller of another spirit like Lekhraj Kirpalani was), continued to take rebirth until today when they will have to reappear at a BK centre somewhere to "re-learn" their religion from the BKs.

In return, the Buddhists claim the same about the Hindus/the BKs' gods.

Except that, to the BKs, the Buddha will be a poor student who will not accept or understand the whole of BKism and so be will not rewarded with a heavenly life in the Golden or Silver Age, blocked by his own ego (wah, drama, wah ... let me start the rumour that Pink Panther will be the Buddha in his next life! :shock: ). And so he will repeat this experience every 5,000 years for eternity. If Buddhism is only a partial expression of BKism ... where is all the wonder, detail, the ethics, all those realms, numbers and lists Buddhism likes so much in BKism? It just does not exist.

BKism is either completely correct, which it is objectively not, or the greatest of all conceits; Lekhraj Kirpalani's ... Mama's ... Jagdish Chander's ... Janki Kirpalani et al's conceit ... to the point of a collective insanity. Such a delusion that only very, very 'stupid people' (the original BKs) - or 'stupified people' (later converts) full of themselves could believe it.

It's a typical symptom of mental illness to see patterns where there are none. And a very typical symptom of delusions of graneur, schizophrenia, hypermania etc to see oneself as a messiah figure, here stood *above* all and every the other messiah figures.

Now, either that is true or it is ... what? Insane, delusion, or misleading evil? What do you call a god spirit who claims to be a god, who claims to be an ocean of truth, but is not; but which is so deeply deluded and leads others into delusion?

I'd guess they probably have a name and place for it in Buddhism but I don't know the religion and have no energy to learn a new one ... seems I was write about various realms all stack on top of each other ... the Maha Brahma living in the third top one. I also don't know what Hinduism says about Brahma but if the Buddhist view is taken from Hinduism, it appears that the BKs borrowed many of "Mahābrahmā's" attributes for thier Brahma.
In the Buddhist texts Maha Brahma is represented as claiming the following attributes for himself:

"I am Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all appointing to each his place, the Ancient of days, the Father of all that is and will be." (Dagha Nikaya, II, 263).

The Buddha dismisses all these claims of Maha Brahma as being due to his own delusions brought about by ignorance. He argues that Maha Brahma is simply another deva, perhaps with greater karmic force than the other gods, but nonetheless a deva and therefore unenlightened and subject to the samsaric process as determined by his karma. In such suttas as the Brahmajala sutta the Buddha refutes the claims of Maha Brahma and shows him to be subject to karmic law (i.e. cosmic law). Even though long-lived Maha Brahma will be eliminated in each cycle of inevitable world dissolution and re-evolution.

In the Khevadda Sutta Maha Brahma is forced to admit to an inquiring monk that he is unable to answer a question that is posed to him, and advises the monk to consult the Buddha. This clearly shows the Brahma acknowledges the superiority of the Buddha.

The Buddhist view is that gods may lead more comfortable lives and be addicted to all the sense pleasures, but in terms of wisdom might be inferior to humans. They are even represented as coming to receive instruction from monks and even lay persons. Later on with the Hindu revival and proliferation of God-cults the Buddhists were increasingly vocal against the pretensions of God and his retinue of lesser gods.
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awareness_being

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post26 Mar 2017

Hmm, ex-I, you are really interesting, we should or may become at least internet friends! :).

Now I would like to share one more small thing here, and that is, what kind of BK path is?

It is a path of increasing your EGO, the EGO in sansarik world was not able to boost itself as in sansarik world, we are full of problems, stress and all that! So when you come to BKs, observe that they give you beliefs like, I am a special soul, I am the highest soul in Kalpa etc.

EGO at some point reaches to a point of its peak, like I am done dominating others and my search for POWER an all is done, I need to dissolve it now, I am in that process of dissolving it, and I have been successful to a very high extent. Thanks to universe for helping me out for that :).

Now one has to leave BK path for that process, how many BKs can do that, that depends on them ... brotherly love for you ex-I :).
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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post27 Apr 2018

The Universe exist for a very long time, to say that the earth is the only planet whit live is narrow minded. In fact, there are many living planets and the earth is visited by different kinds of aliens in the past and now. They are remembered as angels, demons, deities, gods, and now we call them aliens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpkQlnP ... 1X0ZrjY7UP

Some of these aliens live a lot longer as humans, the created the human race by DNA manipulation.

Today there exists many alternative theories that aim to explain mankind’s speedy evolution. The Ancient Astronaut Theory is perhaps one of the most controversial of the bunch. This theory takes researchers back in time to the cradle of civilization in the Middle-East, the ancient land of Mesopotamia. The Sumerian Cuneiform tablets, uncovered in the 17th century, provide modern man with a new understanding of our history. This lost knowledge has been slow to make its way into mainstream thought and is just now beginning to air on television on both the History and Discovery Channels.

Accurately decoding the complicated language of the past has taken archaeologists many decades, but fortunately today these ancient scriptures have come to light for all the public to view. The so-called ancient astronaut thesis and alternative study of history that is counter to mainstream thinking has become an exciting field. As we learn more about the advanced civilizations that existed before the "official history" taught in our schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzANU5iog0Q&t=3816s

So tell me who created Shiva the aliens?
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Pink Panther

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post27 Apr 2018

Mattheus,

I saw a recent science report on TV where the story was that a number of evolutionary biologists have posited that it is extraterrestrial DNA that arrived possibly by comets or meteors that gave rise to encephalopods - octopus, squid etc.

They say this because their DNA is quite different.

- I must add, it stated that the majority of other biologists think there are simpler explanations for the differences. Maybe GuptaRati can shed more light on this theory.
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ex-l

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post27 Apr 2018

Mattheus,

I cannot remember if you told us about your BK experience or not, but let's keep the conversation a little more 'on topic' ... about BKism, our experiences with it, our experiences leaving and afterwards.

In summary, I suppose you are saying "the BK theories did not satisify my mind/could not possibly be true".

That clearly true. Is it not just another huge leap of faith, emphasising belief over actual knowledge, to jump from that to believing in Space Gods (be they intergallactic lobsters or not)?

Personally, I really enjoy Star Trek and Star Wars as light entertainment with a little morality tale thrown in for good measure ... but I probably would not convert from being an ex-BK to a Jedi follower.

Just as an aside, according to a recent consensus, there are 390,127 people in England and Wales who stated their religion was Jedi. Probably a 1,000 times more than the BKs. More than even Jewish.

Let the Force be with them!

I would not believe everything one watches on History or Discovery Channel.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Who created Shiv Baba

Post29 Apr 2018

Pink,

The TV report on alien genes in cephalopods was derived from an article published in Nature (Albertin et al., 2017), the most prestigious journals in science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and medicine. However, the publication in Nature is not a fully developed paper; it is a letter submitted to Nature. Many letters to Nature will later become full fledged articles and rock the world of science. I think this article is one of them. It is the non-peer reviewed magazines and journals, which are buzzing with greater excitement about the extra-terrestrial implications and interpretations of the publication in Nature.

Errol seems to think that the octopus can be an excellent animal model for studying the interactions of consciousness with DNA transcription and translation effected through the nervous system of the cephalopod (Walcott, 2018). Without free-associating, we have to contemplate the greater implications of the veterinarian and scientist in Korea who has been developing cloned pets (Kelly, 2017) and the opinions of Edgar Mitchell, the founder of noetics.

The BKs would dismiss many of the noetics studies of Mitchell and collaborators; the studies have been real and well funded by the United States Government. Mitchell has stated that there are extraterrestrials among us. I believe him. With the research and development of cloned pets there is the potential of cloning humanoid creatures (Dixon, 2016).

References

Albertin, C.B., Simakov, O., Mitros, T., Wang, Z.Y., Pungor, J.R., Edsinger-Gonzales, E., Brenner, S., Ragsdale., C.W.... Rokhsar, D.S. (2015, August 13). The octopus genome and the evolution of cephalopod neural and morphological novelties. Nature, 524, 220-224. http://doi.org/10.1038/nature14668
Dixon, P.(2016, May 4). Cow / human clone hybrid - cow and human mixed together GlobalChange.com. Retrieved from https://www.globalchange.com/humancow.htm
Kelly, G. (2017, October). To clone or not to clone. American Veterinarian. Retrieved fromhttp://www.americanveterinarian.com ... t-to-clone
Walcott, Horace. (2018, April 29). Comments. The octopus genome and the evolution of cephalopod neural and morphological novelties. Nature, 524, 220-224. http://doi.org/10.1038/nature14668
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