Janki and the Professor

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GuptaRati 6666

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Janki and the Professor

Post30 Dec 2017

I was recently reviewing some literature on bio-feedback and psychophysiology, and encountered two videos on Swami Rama, Dr. Swami Rama. Immediately I had some flashbacks and commenced to compare Janki with the yogi-doctor and scientist whom the BKs would dismiss as a sanyasi.

We can examine biographical information of both individuals through the lens of authenticity, talents, and spiritual accomplishments.

Here are the links to the videos on Swami Rama:


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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post30 Dec 2017

For sure, Raj yogis are also have to become experts in sanyas Yoga. How many BKs truly practice sanyas Yoga?

Swami Rama did exit his cave in the Himalayas, sat in classrooms in academic universities and attained academic credentials and later established a university and medical school.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post31 Dec 2017

A student of Raja Yoga, to be an expert must master the teachings of about 8 sub-specialties of the royal Yoga:

Karma Yoga
Bhakti Yoga
Bhudi Yoga
Sanyas Yoga
Gyan Yoga
Kundali Yoga
Hatta Yoga
Yoga of Equaminity

Swami Rama has, in his recent life, demonstrated excellent mastery of the 8 listed types of Yoga (Swami J.com, n.d.). Show us one BK who can demonstrate mastery of all the 8 types of Yoga. Are BKs not practitioners of Raj Yoga? There is the Janki Foundation (2017), an organization presenting Janki as the president; she is a president floated by multiple ghost authors, many BKs and others. It quite nice for the BKs to have Denise, a xenophobe, and female chauvinist, attempt to sanitize Janki's darkness, as a narrator celebrating falsehoods (Dadi Janki, 100 Years of Celebration- London, 2016).

Dadi Janki, 100 Years of Celebration, London. (2016). Dadi Janki's Century of spiritual service is celebrated at the Meridian Grand, London. 1916 - 2016Retrieved from https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... ction=view

Janki Foundation. (2017). Values in health care. Retrieved from https://www.jankifoundation.org/president-dadi-janki/

Swami J. com ( n.d.). Swami Rama of the Himalayas-1925-November 1996. Retrieved from http://swamij.com/swami-rama.htm

[vidhttps://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-mozilla-001&hsimp=yhs-001&hspart=mozilla&p=Dadi+janki#id=75&vid=a2f30e8a460d1643198dc7b279c1b283&action=vieweo][/video]
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Arbit

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:For sure, Raj yogis are also have to become experts in sanyas Yoga. How many BKs truly practice sanyas Yoga?

I am not sure that is a fruitful comparison. BKs have redefined Raj Yoga, by their own admission. So you cannot expect them to follow the other version.

However, it is fair for you to compare the two philosophies, what the two have done for the society, etc.

The beauty of the Vedic system is its vast landscape, which is impossible to navigate all in one lifetime. Within that landscape, BKs have carved out a niche, and many other Gurus have carved out their own, IMO.

If you omit the breathing aspect (Prana) from the Raj Yoga meditation as described by Swami Vivekananda, BK meditation technique strongly resembles it. BKs, especially BK Surya, have added some eclectic elements, which IMO, are helpful to many.

A unique aspect of BK teachings is the pragmatic exercises to develop positive thinking,analogous to the simple hatha Yoga asanas. I have not seen other Gurus do this. Of course, BKs ignore many other aspects of the Vedic system.
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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

Arbit wrote:BKs have redefined Raj Yoga, by their own admission. So you cannot expect them to follow the other version.

I would say that they merely borrowed/stole the branding and reputation for their market value.

The BKs did at some point introduce the "8 Powers" idea, again borrowed from it, and related the names of different yogas to their practise, as Gupta wrote (I remember teaching that bit in my days), but they really bore no connection to Patanjali's work at all.

I suppose it was just Jagdish Chander riffing on some pamphlet he'd read.

But, in my opinion, we were taught to teach it, and did, just as a con trick to make us sound as if we knew more than we actually did. I make that accusation of myself but I think it was typical of Western BKs who, on the whole, had ZERO background in Vedanta.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666,

You may remember the book by BK Jagdish Chander called ”The Way and the Goal of Raja Yoga” which is essentially an apologia* justifying the BKs' stealing the term "Raja Yoga" for their practice. In that book he compares Patanjali’s 8 limbs of Yoga to BK practice.

I read it soon after starting as a BK as a young know-it-all, i.e. I had done a little bit of hatha Yoga before BKs, then became a BK and as one of the few BKs who actually had done some hatha[1] Yoga, declared this book ”the best in the BK library” and a scholarly work.

Just as on the basis of a grain of turmeric I'd became a self-declared ”expert”, or as we like to say in Australia, a legend in my own lifetime, so too Jagdish, whose supposed authority came from the fact that he used to do some Yoga and had followed a few gurus before BKs. He was another mouse with one grain of turmeric more than me! **

Now after years out of BKs and starting from scratch, learning a bit more about the history of Yoga, the mutual influences of Buddhism on Vedanta and vice versa etc, looking at Patanjali again, I can definitely say I am no expert and, in the light of reading and meeting people who do know what they are talking about, can also declare that Jagdish’s book is, to put it politely, grossly inadequate.

As a matter of course, BKs are asked on the basis of ”faith” to accept absolute tosh*** on face value.
_____________________


*apologia |ˌapəˈləʊdʒɪə|noun - a formal defence of one's opinions or conduct.


** Mouse with a grain of turmeric - quoting a traditional Hindi saying: "he is like a mouse who stole a single grain of turmeric then opened a grocery store” - meaning someone who gets the smallest bit of something (consider how finely ground turmeric powder is!) then thinks they have enough to ”trade on”, a colloquial explanation of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I first heard this phrase in a Sakar Murli, which is ironic given that the saying describes Dada Lekhraj himself, and the BKs generally, exactly!

*** Tosh |tɒʃ| noun [ mass noun ] Brit. informal - rubbish; nonsense.

[1] Hatha Yoga - There are many kinds of Yoga traditions and Hatha is only one but the BKs use the term ”hatha” generically to pigeonhole all Yoga traditions that include physical practices. The name ”hatha” was first used only in the 15th Century CE. BK teachings also include the physical, mostly in the negative. Although they like to call it, in India especially, "Sahaja Raja Yoga” ("easy” or ”natural”) I think it’d be more appropriate to call it ”manthara Yoga” (dull, inactive, lazy, slow, tardy)
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

Arbit,

If you are not sure about the comparisons of the BK system of practicing sanyas Yoga, the scholarly articles on sanyas Yoga are sure. The BKs have a form of renunciation, which they themselves, including Janki, the BK's champion has not authentically practiced. Arbit, it's and sweet to you now to defend the BK's burrowed philosophical concepts. What will you do when the cracks are much larger in the BK's glass house? Remember the BK's system is meant to eliminate negative sanskars of 63 births. This is the claim of the BKs. Have the BKs done any randomized trials to support their claims? Other schools of Yoga, including Buddhist schools have.

Pink,

I read Jagdish's book around the time you read it and was convinced for a while. Family members in my home studied hatha Yoga and I studied some of the books, dismissed by the BKs as Bhakti and physical. As the years of my BK studies increased, I observed the BKs did not have much to offer, which could better age old traditions of Yoga documented by Evans-Wentz and Elialde and even the altered states of consciousness pioneered by John Lilly. Never mind, Hollywood's bashing of Yoga, meditation, and the studies of Lilly and his sensory deprivation tank in the movie: Altered States. I did go on the expert trip you experienced.

Ex-I,

The BKs have borrowed and keep borrowing and mimicking the ideas of other groups or institutions.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:I read Jagdish's book around the time you read it and was convinced for a while. Family members in my home studied hatha Yoga and I studied some of the books, dismissed by the BKs as Bhakti and physical. As the years of my BK studies increased, I observed the BKs did not have much to offer, which could better age old traditions of Yoga

In summary, the BK extraction of Raj Yoga, from the other 7 limbs of Patanjali, calling the mental aspect as ”the king”, is akin to claiming one can have a ”penthouse” without a basement, ground floor and utility vents. Yet they are not so hasty to accept that they can have a kingdom without slaves, sorry, subjects.

But BKs somehow think that the way to develop 'sanskaras' for the next life where there is a healthy 'body-mind’ whole human being in harmony with their incarnation is to practice in this life to forego biological imperatives, to view attention to healthy living as ”Bhakti", to practice seeing physical needs and signals as something to be overcome, denied, ignored or disciplined, rather than listened to, exercised, harmonised with (We all know that the part of us we call ”body” is often smarter than that part of us we call ”I”).
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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

Understanding BKism as not being a yogic path at all but really just an extension of Bhaibundism - the way of the Bhaibund castes - is the starting point.

I suspect Lekhraj Kirpalani's obsession with "royalty" and "princesses" (Kumaris) just dates back to his wide eyed exposure to the power and wealth of the royal and often British elite in Calcutta. He had travelled a long way from his dusty village in the backward Sind.

I'll need to go back and read the early materials we have to see when the terms entered the religions. Will read over your new article later, arbit.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post01 Jan 2018

Pink and Ex-I, you have hit the nail on its head.

A house cannot be constructed and sustained without a great foundation and other parts such a ventilation systems. The body is the temple of the spirit and when a person studies spirituality, there has to be a mind/body balance. The BKs preach about a mind/body balance, and try to teach about a mind/body balance; however, in practice the student body of BKSO is not an example of excellent mind/body health practices.

After 40-50 decades of tapasya, Janki should have eliminated all of her chronic ailments and reduced the accelerated aging in herself and many BKs. Many ladies with Janki's chronological age have been able to reversed the accelerated aging and look 20-30 years younger than their chronological ages.

B.K. Saraswati should not have died of cancer. Kumaka Dadi should not have had Parkinsonism. The BKSO population should not have the prevalence of chronic illnesses demonstrated by anecdotal evidence and potential evidence derived from future epidemiological studies.

Complimentary and alternative medicine and health practiced by non-BKs have reversed or eliminated illnesses, which BKs should be able to eliminate in their populations by practices of B.K. Raj Yoga.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post09 Jan 2018

Last month, the world of medical science joined with South Africa in celebrating the 50 th anniversary of the world's first human heart transplant performed by Professor Christian Bernard. There is a memorial hospital to honor Dr. Bernard. Similar institutions are the Salk Institute for Biological Sciences, the Mayo Clinic, Institute Pasteur, the Texas Heart Institute, and the George Washington Carver Research Center. Each of the above-mentioned institution continues to serve the global community in the pure and applied sciences. The core of the currencies of each of the listed institution are the legacies of scientific accomplishments established by the founders of each institution. The core of the currency of the Janki Foundation seems to be monopoly money, a currency of mimicked ideas from multiple schools of thought.

I have to mention the Benson-Henry Mind-Body Institute for Mind Body Medicine at Harvard University. Professor Benson spent almost 50 solid years conducting research in psychophysiology at Harvard, including field studies of yogis in Tibet. About 30 years ago, as a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), I submitted a proposal for the session lead by Benson at the annual conference of the AAAS. It was never accepted though Benson had been publishing research articles in Science, the journal of AAAS since the mid-1960's. Professor Benson's legacy can be backed up by his stellar research at Harvard. How authentic are the mission statements of the Janki Foundation?
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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post09 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:How authentic are the mission statements of the Janki Foundation?

One of the original leaders/founders, Dr Ray Bhatt, told me that initially it was just a vehicle by which they could attract and utilise donations for a hospital up in Mount Abu to serve the interests of the old ladies up there, as they were sick and the nearest "impure" public hospital 100s of uncomfortable miles away.

Clearly The Janki Foundation has proven more successful as a new name front organisation since then, capitalising on the adoration certain elements of the movement has for her. There was another story where some Americans, non-BKs wanted to donating something to help but could not donate to a religious cult, so the BKs pointed them towards their hospital project, and they were happy to donate to that ... saving the BKs the other donated money they would have to have spent themselves. Various BK charities have been set up worldwide to funnel donations of money and equipment to the projects and, of course, it has given medical BKs something to do.

Let's remember the Scottish-Indian BK who was behind the first start of the village medical outreach programme that, arguably, started the trend ... it was done AGAINST the will of the leadership. She wanted to help the poor, they were against it ... until its PR and donation pulling power was demonstrated. Unfortunately, she died young.

Janki's "medical" experience has in the past been highly exaggerated, calling her a "nurse", which she never was.

OK, Janki is very old now ... but she does not exactly look the picture of joy and happiness!

Angry_Janki.jpg
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Arbit

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post09 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote: Arbit, it's and sweet to you now to defend the BK's burrowed philosophical concepts ... Have the BKs done any randomized trials to support their claims? Other schools of Yoga, including Buddhist schools have.

Gupta,

I am not defending BKs, or anyone else. I try my best to state facts as I observe them.

Undoubtedly some accuse BKs of being malevolent, and some credit BKs for being benevolent. There is ample evidence to both effects. I agree that some scientific study to support their claims will help them. I believe that they have done some with heart patients and farming techniques. Although I have not heard more on those topics recently.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post10 Jan 2018

Arbit,

I agree with you that the BKs on the whole are not intentionally malevolent. But I think most of us ex-BKs, many friends and relatives of BKs have experienced the whole BK project as a manifestation of Samuel Johnson’s famous aphorism: ”Hell is paved with good intentions” *

That is, good intentions are not enough. In other words, "be careful what you wish for".

As Hell is a place that is eternal (which doesnt mean forever, eternal actually means outside the measures of time, like the land of faery in ancient British myth) you loose track of how long you are there. Some enter and leave quickly, others enchanted can be there for years and decades before they return to the real world.
I agree that some scientific study to support their claims will help them.

One must objectively (scientifically?) see what the outcomes and results of a proposed hypothesis actually are, regardless of what the intent of that hypothesis was or the belief of what the outcome would be before testing. (otherwise, why test?) The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
There is ample evidence to both effects

From what I can see, the benevolent effects mostly come from aspects of BK life that are not exclusively BK, e.g. many benefit from a change of routine to their eating, sleeping and working, giving up drink or drugs or bad diet etc. Learning to sit still and direct your mind to a predetermined ‘ideal' state is a worthwhile lesson.

Unfortunately, they do not go to the next level of understanding of mental states, preferring to merely dose people up on the alternative ego that is soul-consciousness.

You can also see from the different reports by different BKs how the same meditation technique and practice gives quite different experiences. This is explained away as people being ”number-wise” etc or proof of worthiness or accuracy of following sri mat or whatever. But most kinds of meditation, BK or otherwise, will bring some sort of benefit, if even just as a ”time out” rest.

Conversely, many of the malevolent effects can be sourced directly back to what is exclusively and definitively BK - the family breakdowns, poor health (yes, some people’s health improves by being BK, others get worse, so we can say easily that BK Sri Mat on mental and physical diet and activity is not divine or absolute, as it presents itself to be).

The diversion of time and energy from establishing a solid home or family environment, career, life path or sense of meaning, essential for many people’s overall sense of security and support, leads to increased dependence on the BKs for a sense of community and validation, leaving people more open to exploitation of their time and energy, i.e. a closed circle, entrapment.

There are other cases, e.g. BK teachings leading to anxiety, insecurity, or distortion of career paths and so on.

Of course much that goes wrong for a BK or from the BKs, or within the BKs, is not exclusively BK either - human nature, politics, greed, ambition, lies and deception, hypocrisy all are found everywhere. The malevolence behind it all, however, is the disarming of people’s wariness by gaining their trust in the promise that this is ”highest on high”. Whatever you believe about the hypothesis of BK life and teachins, the practical result when objectively observed is that it is a "feel good now, pay later” Ponzi scheme.

*From Boswell's Life of Johnson, 1775

N.B. the more common ”The road to hell is paved wih good intentions” comes much later, it’s a mistaken restating of it and changes the meaning.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Janki and the Professor

Post13 Jan 2018

Pink,

You have clearly delineated the differences between malevolent and benevolent factors in BKSO. An extensive list can be made of the benevolence of the BKs, which are not unique to the BKs and are cultural universals, some explained by the natural sciences.

One factor contributing to the excellence of the Brazilian soccer team has been their incorporation of capoiera, an African martial arts into their way of playing soccer. There are many spiritual components of capoiera, which requires the practice of faith in the self. Though the BKs regard capoiera as Kali yugi, it is a way of life for the Angolans and people of Brazil, with many great benefits, which can be understood in neurophysiological terms. The Brazilian soccer players have been able to elicit the break-out principle, discovered by Benson and his team at Harvard University Medical School. The break-out principle was dramatically demonstrated by Brazil in the finals of the 1994 World Cup, when Brazil played against Italy. It was demonstrated before by Brazil in the 1954 and 1970 World Cup.

The BKs may define such a phenomenon as yugyuk and yuktiyuk and as gifts demonstrated by individuals such as Shivani. However, Musashi Miyamoto demonstrated the break-out principle in his 60 plus duels against opponents.

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