What do you believe now?

for ex-BKs, exiting BKs, Friends & Family of BKs and newcomers to the forum.
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threerivers

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What do you believe now?

Post30 Dec 2017

Hi fellow souls

I have been reading this site over the years but this is my first post.

I would like to ask put out a question for anyone to answer, especially those who were long time BKs.

First some background about me. A BK for over 25 years, lived in a number of centres, in charge of some. I went out of the centres a number of years ago. Until recently I’m still active in BK life, though I removed the superficial aspects and narrow minded thinking I had developed.

I have first-hand experienced the politics and unethical behaviour of Centre-in-Charges and NCOs. I have witness the organisation putting money and power before spirituality. I am at a loss of why an Indian Sister has been put in charge - yet after 20 years of living in a foreign country refuses to let go of Indian mentality and ways of operating.

Sometimes I can’t believe what I see happening ... from bullying to stealing, outright ego to gross greed, backward management etc etc. I would often dismiss it as drama ... but I later realised the way this BK organisation operates in this country does not align with my core values. In fact - at times I’m embarrassed to be associated with this group.

It has been on my mind for a few years now, but 2 months ago I decided to cut my ties with the organisation. The centre has nothing to offer me now - I feel I have moved on to new levels of openness and spirituality – where many current BKs, Centre-in-Charges etc are trapped in a time warp and system of control, it feels like a stagnant retirement centre suitable only for Indians. Most of the non-Indian BKs and many Indians have left for similar reasons.

I see more Godliness and spirituality in your well-to-do average person than the NCO of our country. I’m aware no one is perfect but what I see happening would even be considered unacceptable in the real/lokik world.

Before I became a BK I was a lost soul. I have gained a lot from being a BK, I have felt such love and fullness from Baba which I haven’t experienced anywhere else. I have no regrets of being a BK but I am now at the next phase in my life. I have studied and attended other spiritual groups, religions etc and I’m yet to come across one that matches the philosophy of the BKs.

So I still believe in the teachings and do believe it is taught by God.

My question to you is ... do you still believe this knowledge is the truth and that it is taught by God?

If not ... what is it you believe?

Have you adopted another belief system? Ie Christianity

Or made up your own?

I am asking this because I am re-evaluating my belief systems and Im interested to know what ex-BKs now believe after Gyan has been ingrained into their being for so many years.

I appreciate your responses.
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ex-l

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post30 Dec 2017

threerivers wrote:... it feels like a stagnant retirement centre suitable only for Indians.

I'll try leave some room for to others, as I generally say too much on this forum, but I wanted to pick up this one line from your post as being interesting to me.

You know, truth be, I think it has been that for a very long time, perhaps even since Lekhraj Kirpalani died and individuals like Ramesh Shah and Jagdish Chander took over responsibility for the income and welfare of the older Sisters, and the process of systematising it as a formal religion that could be capitalised started (it was clearly far more fluid, organic and cooperative in the early days).

I think what I call "the Western BK movement" - the international element - was, and continues to be, a "huge shot in the arm" to BKism on many level, from financial to ideological, to cyclically invigorating enthusiasm; but that it was always "straining at the leash" or "spinning its wheels" - that is being resisted by the more rigid/limited/conservative Hindi/Sindi elements of BKism - right back to the early 1980s at least.

That is to say, that many to most Western BKs felt exactly like you and took equivalently long times before finally giving up on them. It takes time to accept they're never really going to change.

Very briefly ... perhaps largely due to real life demands and partly due to a reaction against my experience with BKs and BKism, I don't practise or believe in anything religious or spiritual now. Quite the opposite, I tried to avoid it.

Two apparently unrelated things that have interested me in the past few years; natural farming and "simple sailing", are both about seeing and feeling "what is" right here in the now, and being sensitive to it ... rather than impressing some other theoretical and ultimately unprovable framework upon reality. One being a meditation on the earth, the other on the sea ... as it is. More something for my retirement era though.

I became and remain vegan. I never started drinking, smoking or anything else after leaving. The BKs would be hard pressed to accuse me of leaving merely to "indulge in the vices", as they like to believe exes do ... because we are all crazy, out of control "lusty dogs" and demons! ... however, I am developing an interest in the more "evidence based" end of psychotherapy and considering subjecting myself to it, or perhaps even studying it as a way to help others.

I think it's very challenging to the BK/post-BK mindset because, a) it requires opening up all the garbage inside you to someone else and connecting with them, and b) it's not about telling someone, even the self, what to think and emphasizing conformity to a rigid ideal.

In terms of religion, I'd give up on all the spirits and spook element. The only thing that is reliable about them is that it is ultimately and always unreliable, real or not. The Tao Te Ching is a nice piece of poetry that could do most people for a lifetime of study (I like the Gia-Fu Feng & Jane English translation).

My question back to you would be, do you think you are over any addiction to playing a "guru role" that being a BK satisfies?

That's what BKism cured me of ever wanting! And it was an expensive lesson.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post31 Dec 2017

Hi ThreeRivers,

Sounds like you started your BK involvement when I ended mine.

Your question is most pertinent because it is the thing I believe that makes the difference to how an ex-BK moves forward in life. You say:
I have studied and attended other spiritual groups, religions etc and I’m yet to come across one that matches the philosophy of the BKs. ... My question to you is ... do you still believe this knowledge is the truth and that it is taught by God?

If not ... what is it you believe?

Have you adopted another belief system? Ie Christianity Or made up your own? I am asking this because I am re-evaluating my belief systems and Im interested to know what ex-BKs now believe after Gyan has been ingrained into their being for so many years.

As ex-l said for himself, maybe that is the crux of the matter and why he left behind any notion of ”being spiritual” as proof of spirituality. Any ”spiritual group" is about the people there agreeing, or at least not disagreeing, because they are, in that scenario, motivated by belonging, by group identity and professed high minded principles. You saw how that is subverted in practice in the BK organisation by individuals’ ambitions, greed, insecurity etc. That happens everywhere.

As you said for yourself:
I see more Godliness and spirituality in your well-to-do average person

That is, you have realised that spirituality is something other than the wrappings and ribbons people put around themselves.

Learning to appreciate plurality, diversity and individual beliefs as more than slogans, actually give us as individuals and a society a real strength, along with appreciating we are each, at any time, only at a stage in our own ”deconditioning”. What was ‘true' once is no longer true in the same way. Truth relates to a state of mind.

One of the things I did on a regular basis for a few years after leaving BKs was to attend a monthly philosophy discussion group. We’d pick a topic and inevitably each person would bring their own ideas to it, and discussions would sometimes turn into serious analysis of each others position, sometimes aggressively, which is why a moderator was needed, sometimes humorously, nearly always a satisfying workout.

At the end of my first attendance, a full-on session where some people got a little heated, one person said during the debrief, ”I thought that with this topic we’d all agree on and that there’d be nothing to discuss, it surprised me how differently people saw it”. To which, significantly for me, another person replied, ”if we all agreed on everything, we’d just be a cult”.

To me, it is about each life being lived with integrity. There is a place for ‘surrender' in different moments, or ‘agreement’ if you prefer - if only partial, and there’s a place for asserting independence or leadership - or disagreement, if you prefer. Every picture has its shadow and it has its source of light.

Now to speak for myself, I think there various things that go hand in hand when moving forward in life after BKs.
For example, realising that there are multiple components to why we believe (believed) what we believe, things like social need for a community that gives us a structure to live by and to explore what suits us at a particular time in our maturing, which mainstream society doesn’t. Another thing might be the fact we got a ”buzz” out of the meditation, so we then accepted the rest of the package as part of the deal, because we were convinced it is a package ...

BKs are of a type, but again, they're also individuals. So how you analyse your history, how you work out where you are at this time and where to go next, is up to you. However, I suggest leaving aside any attempt to prove what you already know. There is no growth there.

Instead, be a scientist. By that I mean use the scientific method on yourself. Progress is made by discovering new things, evidence, facts, observations, which alter one’s current body of knowledge. Seek to alter your body of knowledge by testing it and growing it by fertilising it with all kinds of new experiences. That may give rise to all kinds of emotions. People here have commented on how the stages of exiting a cult are not unlike the 7 stages of grief. It is said that one sign of emotional intelligence is the ability to feel (allow? recognise?) an emotion without being caught up in it.

Break the mould of imposed behaviours and do things, go places you would not allow yourself to as a BK, especially those that you maybe were intending to before you became a BK. I have mainly done that, returned to and developed the interests, pastimes (and relationships) I had that were put on hold when I became a BK. These are, in no particular order, Buddhism & Tao, psychology, visual arts, music, philosophy, history, following current events, Yoga (mainly via esoteric Chan Buddhist practice), cooking, house maintenance - practical stuff. Probably the core of my "philosophy” now is - live simply, do what is necessary, see what is right under my nose, listen for what is screaming for attention which I might be missing ...
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post31 Dec 2017

Excellent posts, Three Rivers and Ex-I.

Ex-I, I agree with you; the BKs think that somehow ex-BKs fall into dooms or hyper-hell. Quite the opposite. The old Sindhi/Hindi model of BKism has been very resistant to innovation initiated by Western BKs. I made my final exit after 40 years. BKism was a part of my life and evaluation. Looking back at some of the negatives do not trigger any post traumatic stress responses in me.

A few months after I was banished by Janki, Mohini, and Hansa, I was accepted for post graduate medical studies by an Ivy League school in the USA. There I met my soul mate, a lady who was vegetarian like myself and strictly into organic products down to toilet tissue and soaps. She became a Buddhist and re-kindled my interest in oriental philosophy and Egyptian mysticism.

For me, there is still a cycle and cycles, not in the BK paradigm. The soul is still a pin-point of light and so is God. Baap-Dada is not God, though I respect the duo as spirits. In fact, I was told by Baap-Dada my first visit to Mount Abu, that I would leave the Pandav Government and establish my own. The few absolute truths in BKsm, those that are universal have been empowering for me and contributed to my academic and intellectual growth.

As a doctor and scientist, and x-BK, I still embrace spirituality, but will avoid corrupt practices in spirituality. I respect Ex-I avoidance of spirituality and other x-BKs. As an avid fencer and martial artist, I feel no unease or dis-ease being an x-BK and simultaneously do not live in comfort zones. Gary Null's workshops plus my relationship with my soul mate lady have helped me markedly. Dr. Null's book: Power Aging and his video on life energies were great for me.
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ex-l

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post31 Dec 2017

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:I agree with you; the BKs think that somehow ex-BKs fall into dooms or hyper-hell.

Dooms, hyper-hell ... or the other one they use is "disgruntled ex-BKs who left because they were not shown enough respect" by the organisation.

When I first left, I explored various "new agey" type centres and attended some events, at some of which I experience similar buzzes and similar dynamics to the BKs. There are definitely some other equally or more charismatic "spiritual" individuals out there.

Largely, I think that was more about seeking similar sensitive/spiritual company as I had no other word but for BKs (having "died alive" to my family etc), and I explored the idea of living in one of their communities. It would have been a good "fit in" for a BK, being non-materialistic, relatively submissive, and obedient. But, retrospectively, I think it would only have encouraged my "BK persona" and that I would have remained unrealistic and on an spiritual ego trip.

I don't think spiritual ego trips are something BKism challenges. BKism is tough and does require efforts and sacrifices, but I think most of the beating is to make one fit into their mould, and - I am sorry to say - accept their falsehood - rather than the breaking down of falsehood and false identities that I would thought was part of a truly spiritual path.

However, times have changed for many Western BKs and "retirement" is looming close on the horizon.

What choices and paths exist for them?

I know of a couple, I suspect there are more, of ex-BKs who have basically just ensconced themselves in a BK property and are basically refusing to leave; no longer believing but not causing trouble so left alone. I know of others who have basically been dumped on "lokik" social services. I hear in India they have BK old folks homes but I don't think, except for in exceptional case, they are open to Western BKs.

I think Western BKs really ought to fighting their case for a "New Age Old Folks Retirement Home" by way of an inarguable pension for the service they gave.

For many Indian BKs, I think BKism sufficiently satisifies the thought of having to do something religious well enough. The centres acting as a sort of "Little India" overseas.

We were always horrified by how unspiritual some of their conducts were.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post31 Dec 2017

I did spend some time in New York City (NYC), with my lokik relatives and working in clinics and hospitals. One center in another state from where I was banished advised I go to the center in NYC. However, I had enough of Mohini's hypocrisy, her female chauvinist hog style, and her gross disrespect for male intellectuals or professionals.

There were many spiritual groups in NYC, which were of great help in my recovery. My study and practice of the martial arts helped the healing process. Instead of the BK centers in the Big Apple, I would do meditation walks in the parks, including Central Park. It was great fun to sit in Central Park and meditate on Saturday and Sunday afternoons in the summer.

Scientific investigation is my passion, though I enjoy clinical practice. When the opportunity for a post graduate fellowship presented itself, I took the opportunity and never regretted my decision. Most of the Japanese martial arts, especially though with Taoism as their core incorporate the teachings of Daruma, a great yogi and monk from India.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post31 Dec 2017

I respectfully and unconditionally, thank the BKs and Baap-Dada for their support of me during critical phases of my life. My gratitude is expressed in the traditions of Bushido and fencing. In those traditions some originating from knighthood and ancient warriors, respect for any contributions towards the training of the student is acknowledged, sometimes by altruistic salutations.

History will always document that I studied the BK's system of Yoga and history has documented that I left BKSO as Baap Dada had predicted some 40 years ago. Additionally, history has documented that many who left BKSO moved on the best of their lives and the rest of their lives.

Shirley Bassey in her song expressed it well in a way I would have done. Her song: This is My Life, was performed live in Japan. Like my aunt Shirley, Dame Shirley: I don't give a dam for lost emotions :| :D

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Pink Panther

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:. The old Sindhi/Hindi model of BKism has been very resistant to innovation initiated by Western BKs.

It is the case with any school of thought, usually a religion or cult, which has emerged from a ”revelation” granted by a ”divine authority”. It is why Islam and Christianity struggle to evolve to keep up with the secular world.

The revelation comes from a specific time, place and culture and, because it was ”revealed" by an allegedly indisputable authority, it cannot be questioned or altered regardless of history moving on. Any attempts to modernise or reform the original revelation is to call into question the authority of the ”source”. If the group identity is based on that revelation, what then?

That’s where these revelatory religions split into those who follow a dogma and the ”mystics”, or the ”poets” if you prefer, those for whom everything is malleable - even that which has been categorically stated to not be symbolic or metaphorical but literally absolutely true. We see this in BKs, in Christians, in Muslims ... discrepancies are disregarded, flippantly excused as being beyond human comprehension, god moving in mysterious ways, or for our own good by a benevolent fraudster.
ex-l wrote:When I first left, I explored various "new agey" type centres and attended some events, at some of which I experience similar buzzes and similar dynamics to the BKs. There are definitely some other equally or more charismatic "spiritual" individuals out there.

The question arises why you were drawn in to BKs and didn’t get drawn into these. I think the answer is one of willingness and wariness, of want and need.
GuptaRati 6666 wrote: I had enough of Mohini's hypocrisy, her female chauvinist hog style, and her gross disrespect for male intellectuals or professionals.

Mohini was always introduced as being a university graduate, in science I believe, like ”Doctor” Nirmala, who graduated in medicine but never practiced, thereby voiding her right to use the title "doctor". They have no real authority other than those certificates.

It sounds to me like Mohini maybe has a repressed frustration, she needs to prove that her role is superior (important in Brahmin society), maybe to prove to herself that she made the right choice all those years ago?
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ex-l

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

Pink Panther wrote:The question arises why you were drawn in to BKs and didn’t get drawn into these. I think the answer is one of willingness and wariness, of want and need.

To those I'd also add geography or simple laziness - the BKs were nearby and convenient - and whatever the weakness that sucked me in by being "free" was. I was a 'freeloading monkey' who got his hand stuck in the BK cookie jar, and then was trained to try and capture other monkeys for them, laying and refining traps, hunting and grooming targets.

I think once one has been through it once, one develops an immunity to the psychic and social dynamics involved. One has grown. I'd love there to be a "true path to enlightenment" but with any organizational aspect, it is bound to become 95% politics and accounting.

Whatever BKism is, BK centres are also small, fairly closed "intentional communities" and all intential communities share similar foibles (there's a good bit of social science written about them). The need to belong and be part of a tribe is very strong in human beings. In some cultures it is stronger than others hence, I guess, how some become more stuck than others.
The bottom line is that many intentional communities exist because of wealthy patrons and benefactors, and courting philanthropy and start-up capital is part of the job of charismatic founders ... Communities, like start-ups, need oxygen (not dictatorship). They need to trial innovations and re-invent themselves organically, responding to the changing needs of members.

I suppose a lot also depends on how involved and extracted from "lokik" society the BK individual was before and during their BK experience? In my generation, many of us were relative young before we got sucked in and so, therefore, not deeply involved in the real world. I saw that changing though, to more older people being attracted.

However, going back to 'beliefs' - as per the question above - one big question ultimately arises and requires addressing ... that of whether the BK god spirit is or was actually "god"? I am not sure how all others deal with that. I know many still carry that faith on, even though they breakaway and their lifestyle changes. Other dip in and out of BKism as their needs require ... that appears to be the model the BKs are encouraging. Are others again just able to switch it off, shurg it off, or put it in a box and close the lid?

Again, for me as with others here, I believe we were more mentally trapped by the imminence of Destruction. It held me in a half-world of of not entirely letting go, of being partly bound back and inhibited by the "but what if?" question. Although physically I "left" mentally and emotionally it probably took until the failure of the then current final prediction of Destruction (1996 - "50 to 60 years for Destruction") until I finally freed myself from their matrix.

If the original poster does not mind, I'd like to ask them how they feel about that, and what the current trend within BKism about it is?

Thank you.

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threerivers

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

Thanks Pink Panther, GuptaRati and ex-l for your thoughts, I can definitely connect with a lot of it.

I know it will be a process for exiting, I think I had started that journey a while back. For example, I got married 5 years ago, stop wearing whites, eat other peoples food, I am a vegan (and I feel BKs should be too!).

When I do service I always make sure I am coming from a place of clean intention - not to convert - not even to change others but just to share, and removing subtle BKism ego that "only we know the truth and only we truly know God". Like ex-l said, that "Guru role".

To tell the truth ... being married to non spiritual person whom is not so fond of BKs has knocked-out a lot of the BK guru in me and made me a more real and normal person.

I have started to integrate myself back into mainstream life, doing a mixture of things that gel with my being. I still hold onto many ideas of BKism and maybe it's just a process of what I want to keep and what to let go of ...

I had reached that stage where I know I just have to be content with myself and I only do what inspires and feels right, whether it's according to BK principles or not. I now don't put on a show for anyone or fit a mould to show I am a proper BK, the good thing is most BKs are sweet with that.

I think on the most part these days BKs have matured, are accepting of where others are at (of course there are still your hardliners). However, overall management/NCO is not up to the play, yet to realise the world and your average BK have moved on.
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threerivers

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

Hi ex-l

The current trends in BKism, ... (something I haven't really thought about) ...

From when I started in 1992, it has definitely changed to what it is now. It maybe different from centre to centre, country to country. I have been to countries where the BK movement has inspired me with their forward thinking, openness, professionalism etc and others places which have the opposite effect.

In terms of what's trending ... I can only speak of what I see in the country I live and visit but I don't see BKs hung up on destruction anymore - (I think because the drama has gone on a lot longer than we expected - almost given the idea it's going to end).

I would say it's more of looking after yourself, spiritually, career wise, keeping that balance with lokik family. I went back to university and got a degree 10 years ago and now thinking of changing career again. I found this is quite common amongst BKs. With an attitude to get on with living your life - not waiting around for Destruction.

When I was at the large Hyderabad complex a few years ago - they had a 20 year building and expansion plan, they are not considering Destruction at all. Or it could be they have to use up the large amounts of donations they are receiving!!!

Probably another thing I see trending amongst the few countries I go to is BKs getting real with their own spirituality. Being more true to themselves and not so much to the organisation and BK mould. I notice some centre-in-charges in other countries having their own opinions and ideas that don't necessarily align with BKism. Saying things that if said 15 or 20 years ago would be considered Maya or manmat.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

Threerivers,

You are welcomed. A plant-based diet is best for all humans, including and especially those of the spiritual path. Time is a great healer and it will take time for some of the BK dogmas to be replaced by authentic truths. While science is now demonstrating that meditation techniques enhance telomere length in humans; it has also demonstrated that contaminants in foods consumed by many BKs in the name of Gyan reduce telomere length. For, example non-organic cow's milk, which is laced with pus and harmful micro-contaminants such as bovine growth hormone.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post01 Jan 2018

threerivers wrote: and I only do what inspires and feels right

A word of warning with that: habits are easy and feel as right as old slippers that have taken on the shape of the foot. Changing direction, being circumspect and judicious in self-examination takes effort, and has the paradox of the judge judge him/herself. Hence it is necessary to develop some objective measures amd to bounce off other people. Maybe that is where your spouse can be of great assistance.

As for progressive BK-ism, There are few places as ”progressive BK” as Australia, yet all I see is a more sophisticated form of self-deception and delusion. They may have dropped overt expressions over vinash and encourage people to get on with life in other ways, but that's basically having a bet both ways - a real talent amongst BKs even in the smallest details of life. They have developed the skills to not only have a foot in two boats but nimbly dance between them, not realising they are actually getting nowhere.

Sure BKs are encouraged to study to keep earning donation dollars to support the BK organism, especially professionals whom they can also parade for PR purposes while espousing tolerance of differing lifestyles. Tolerance implies these manifold lifestyles are not celebrated or encouraged, but are to be expected of the spiritually inferior needed to make up the numbers in the ”kingdom” .

BKs still encourage celibacy as "purification” and an expression of superior spirituality, when its the biggest kick in the groin one can give to the possibility of future generations. i.e. it is all still tied up with expectations of vinash. I can tell you the whole Trump - North Korea business has stirred inner rumblings in vinash-oriented BKs.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post02 Jan 2018

There is one mistake that x-BKs made when exiting BKSO. It is the mistake of masking one's uniqueness, the unique nature of one's divine or spiritual contract. I can be a gigantic mistake, when a person refuses to listen to the quiet inner voice that tells a person to manifest her/his uniqueness.

All x-BKs are very special people, not in the BK way or in Hindu Brahamanistic terms. We have within us unique gifts to contribute to society and those gifts can be suppressed or lay dormant while we had been busy in BK service and tapasya. One day, however, the quiet inner voice becomes even stronger than a high experience during Amrit Vela, and force us to move on and move out, and move away from BKSO.

It was less than a year following my exit from BKSO. During the time window, I met my soul mate. One day one of my professors for a course in radiation medicine approached me with a fully funded fellowship opportunity. He was offering me the position because to him I seemed to know a great deal of medicine and answered most of the questions he asked in the two courses in which he was the instructor.

I accepted the offer and the research with my major professor resulted in the development of a novel test for low dose carcinogens contaminating drinking water. Had I remained in BKSO, I would have been dreaming of making scientific discoveries while only preaching about some discoveries that are of interest to the BKs.

I enjoy my life as a bench scientist and teacher.
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Pink Panther

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Re: What do you believe now?

Post02 Jan 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:I enjoy my life as a bench scientist and teacher.

Great post GuptaRati. I think its fantastic that you realised that true contributions to humanity come from acting rather than ”wishes”, no matter how ”good” they are.

For me, I’d have to say the thing that brings me the greatest joy, enjoyment, satisfaction, is seeing my daughter growing up to be a most excellent person.

If I considered what a more enlightened generation might be like after all the idealising of the 60s counter-culture and the preaching of both secular humanists and religious dogmatists I have heard, she is the epitome of that. Now 20 and at university studying Health Sciences as a forerunner to OT, everyone who knows her is impressed by her maturity and generosity of spirit. I am impressed by her natural self-discipline and her constant acceptance of human failings and differences, empathy and compassion way beyond anything I have contributed to her thinking.

Even some who are not her parents comment unusually regularly how wonderful a person she is. That is, good parenting only sets up the framework, the child itself takes it from there.

I link that back to your post Gupta by saying that there are many BKs and Ex-BKs who want the world to become a better place and we get sidetracked, tripped up, trapped by the BK teachings which fools people into thinking that is the way to do it. Or more precisely, you cannot make it better, you have to just learn BK meditation and ride out the decline & fall into the pits of kali-yuga and the ”transformation” (as they now like to call it) which only a million of the world’s 7 billion will see sprout forth, the rest becoming fertiliser (that’s not my image , god said it - it’s from the Sakar Murli people, ”God” itself sees the world’s population of 7 billion people, and all the animals and plants being transformed into fertiliser as a good thing and the only way to forward).

Most people want to leave the world better than what they found it. Most parents work to ensure their children and grandchildren are better people than they were themselves.

Good parenting is IMO the single best work any person can do to make the future of this world better. I think many BKs and Ex-BKs as individuals have the qualities to do this, to set up such a framework although I have also seen some horror BK parents, to be sure). But the bastardised teachings that the BKWSU promotes diverts them from the greater yet more ordinary task that is ushering in a new generation of wiser young people. It turns those of us who get involved for too long into solipsistic good-for-nothing navel-gazers.

So, re: what do I believe now, I believe the wisdom of the ages can be cumulative. I believe that if you look dispassionately, the world is a better place than it has ever been, it is not declining to a "fag end of kali yuga". And the good news is that it can be even better.

No-one who has worked at personal development sincerely and matured through trying different things in life, who has examined themselves and the world according to different yardsticks, can do better than pass on the wisdom of their education through the osmosis that is parenting and providing a good environment for a young one to blossom in.

This comment is for you Three rivers, although it may not be the time yet for you but please stay aware of it. BKs are not the only ”spiritual” group that discount the value of "natural wisdom”.

As William Wordsworth told us, ”The child is the Father of man”

This response is also for ex-l who asked me a question along these lines a while back to which I did not reply at the time. This thread gives an appropriate context to what I would have wanted to say in answer back then but had not the time, and would have probably not expressed it in this way.

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