The Vatican

for discussing science, relationships, religion or non-BK spirituality.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: The Vatican

Post10 Apr 2018

Ex-I and Pink, I respect this website for its high level of authenticity and it has got to remain that way. The story about the BK literature becoming university presidential garbage was related to me by the sister-in-charge, who is now deceased.

Ex-I, the boy crush and girl crush business, though serious, tickled me with great laughter. I have been on the receiving end of the girl crushes towards me. When it happened and it did many times, I had to pinch myself to ensure I was not dreaming nor was I in some hypnotic state.

Yes, I do admit that I am a magnet for women and it has upset my lady many times, because she is very psychic and can easily detect when women try to get into me. My lady was once very upset because she sensed that a woman was projecting herself psychically into our home! I am not obsessed about being a magnet for ladies; I will make efforts to be inconspicuous nor grey, a term used in espionage.

One benefit of being an ex-BK is being free of girl crush from respected BK Sisters. Had I remained in the BK system there might have been scandals of affairs with BK Sisters and my person globally! I am grateful!
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post11 Apr 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Ex-I, the boy crush and girl crush business, though serious, tickled me with great laughter.

Appreciated, but let's keep 'on topic' and discuss BK to BK relationships elsewhere.

I was thinking more about how, without the freedom to express normal, healthy love, attraction and attachment with other human beings, the emotions within Brahma Kumaris become perverted and come in any manners.

Since the very beginning of their cult, the Brahma Kumaris have had this obsession with rich, powerful and famous and have projected their emotions onto or at them ... Lekhraj Kirpalani, of course, being one. Although largely, I accept, there would be no conscious thought of reciprocation on a human level, is not this just ordinary human desires being channelled in a perverse manner, ie ... using women's natural mating instincts?

Taking women's natural mating instincts ... the search for a good mate, a provider and a protector ... and turning them into recruiting devices seeking out finanial sponsors for their centres, donors and public faces for their programmes? They invest large percentages of their resources into capturing them.

However, can targeting Popes, Cardinals and priests be seen in this manner givent that a) they belong to another religion, and b) they are likely to be celibate or gay?

In their case, I'd say part of the interest is in 'status by association' ... making themselves appear to be a reputable organization ... and part of it has been about 'learning the tricks of the religion trade'.

A small part might be a minor thrill for, eg, an ex-Catholic BK to meet them. That is to say, the BKs using BKism to meet their own idols in an otherwise pretty pointless and futile endeavour ... the celebrities, in their own turn, just using the BKs back for whatever their gain is, eg, to appear more spiritual in the case of a politician, or more open and progressive in the case of the Vatican.

May be the likes of the Vatican also wants to "keep its friends close and its enemies closer" and learn more about the other cults and religions too?

But, as with all the dodgy political associations the Brahma Kumaris, normally with more Right Wing tendencies in India etc, how much did we as BKs have to swallow our own political or ethical positions to go along with their social climbing hypocrisies?

I'd use the terms "petit bourgeois" for their social climbing hypocrisies, but I'd be afraid it is a bit dated these days, or even call them "co-hypocrisies" as their targets are largely playing the same game.
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Mattheus

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Shiva and The Vatican

Post17 Oct 2018

Schermafbeelding 2018-10-17 om 20.52.01.png

One thing is a good point, Shiva is very well rememberd. Even the Vatican looks, in the architecture, like the Shiva lingam.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalBSEX_ozk
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post17 Oct 2018

Strictly speaking, what you are trying to assert is that piazza (or plazza) in front of St. Peter's Basilica looks like the vaginal 'Yoni' part.

Not the phallic 'Lingum' element ... which is the Shiva part.


In the middle of ovato tondo (lit. 'round oval') plazza, there is an ancient Egyptian obelisk that was originally erected at Heliopolis, but I think you'd be hard pressed to argue it was a Shivlingum.

Actually, it was originally made in Egypt, by an unknown pharaoh of the Fifth dynasty of Egypt, circa 2,494 years or 2,345 years before Christ was born (BC) ... or 500 years into when the BKs claim Egypt or Africa did not even exist and they were enjoying the Golden Age on their own in India.

Does that really stand as "proof" of BKism for you?

You don't even think the extreme perspective of the photo is a giveaway that someone is stretching credibility here?
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Pink Panther

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Re: The Vatican

Post17 Oct 2018

The BKs ideology represents the worst aspects of dualistic, idealistic thinking. Even its original teachings which occasionally referred back to primitive sexual and religious metaphors have been censored, revised and infantilised. No more Murli references to the Vedic horse ritual!

(This is where the aryan invaders who conquered India, largely due to their ability to harness horses and exploit the abilities this new ”union” enabled - and why the Chariot wheel is so important symbolically in early Indian religions. The ritual involved letting a stallion out to roam, followed by a retinue of priests and soldiers making the noise they’d make, until it tired. Then, wherever the stallion stopped to rest, a large tent was erected around it and the queen would enter the tent and ‘mate' with it while the priests outside chanted their prayers.. I heard it referred to once in a Sakar Murli in my early BK days and went out and bought the Rig Veda to read up on it. So much for original elevated Aryan ”purity” which degrades through "The Cycle". Needless to say, it was never referred to in Sakar Murlis after that that I know of.)

Indian school boys like to make jokes about bananas and melons. The ‘projective” river (linear) flows into the ”receptive’ (ovular or hemispherical) lake or ocean bed.

Every tribe in the world has spiritual ideas grown out of primitive observations of ”opposites” that match, harmonise, form and inform each other.

Only the dualists, like the BKs, take that to their fantasised transcendental realities while diminishing the value of natural, material foundations that gave rise to their ”insights” .

Architecture and engineering work with the laws of physics and the qualities of the materials. They aesthetically refer to the same forms found in nature when they need to emulate similar purposes - eg directing flows of people or containing them or things.

The lingam - yoni symbol is more obviously representing union of opposites for the generation of life as the basis of continuation of ”Life" (capital ”L” - generation to generation, propagation of the species if you prefer) than representing any individual’s ”incorporeal immortality”. Its only in the last few hundred years that the individual has become more important than the collective, whether it be family, clan, caste, nation, or asp er the primitive animist view, where we are all part of ”the scenery”, nature, in the same way any tree or mountain was. As the Christian Desiderata document says ”no less than the trees and the stars, you have a right to be here”. Maybe it should say ”no more than The Tree s and the stars”... (we are stardust, we are billion year old carbon) .

Late-breast fed fools think they discovered what every monkey knows then, arrogantly refusing to accept they are but cousins, work out schemes for elaborate explanations of how all of that is ‘chi chi”, inferior representations, corrupted behaviours of some divine ideal to which we must return (the impotent Lakshmi and Narayan of whom we knwo little after decades of ‘Gyan”) .

Talk about putting the cart before the horse!

Mattheus - basically, nothing new.
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post18 Oct 2018

Pink Panther wrote:The BKs' ... original teachings which occasionally referred back to primitive sexual and religious metaphors have been censored, revised and infantilised. No more Murli references to the Vedic horse ritual!

Can you remember more details about that reference? I am wondering if it is more literal than we imagined, eg Lekhraj Kirpalani as the stallion.

Sure, there were the bull references and the "Baba not mounting a virgin" reference. I bet that one has been removed too.

With regards to the "St Peters equal a Shivlingum" equation, that's beyond mere confirmation bias to some kind of projection ... is there a term for it, when we see or read into things what we want that aren't there?

I know I did it, we were encouraged to, when I was in my intoxication or "honeymoon" period. Any star like shape became a remembrance of the BKs' ShivBaba, eg I remember one specifically ... the compass wheel used on a map.

Of course, it is the kind of projection people with mental illness do, I am not sure where ... probably somewhere in the paranoid-schizoid spectrum.
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Pink Panther

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Re: The Vatican

Post18 Oct 2018

ex-l wrote:With regards to the "St Peters equal a Shivlingum" equation, that's beyond mere confirmation bias to some kind of projection ... is there a term for it, when we see or read into things what we want that aren't there?
Seeing patterns where there are none

Apophenia is the spontaneous perception of connections and meaningfulness of unrelated phenomena. The term was coined by German neurologist and psychiatrist Klaus Conrad (1905-1961). Conrad's focus was on the finding of abnormal meaning or significance in random experiences by psychotic people.

Unnatural Acts that can improve your thinking: apophenia and pareidolia

ex-l wrote:Can you remember more details about that reference? I am wondering if it is more literal than we imagined, eg Lekhraj Kirpalani as the stallion.

Not really, we’re talking over 40 years ago. But, yes, probably to do with the ”joining” or ”union” idea. The Murli did not describe the ritual - it only referred to it, and I followed it up - especially after Jayanti, I think, proclaimed that the Rig Veda was the oldest book known. I like to chase things back to the source, or, as they say, get it straight from the horse’s mouth! :-D
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post18 Oct 2018

For me, it keeps harking back to BKism being an extension of Lekhraj Kirpalani's mental breakdown or illness. A sort of encouragement or institutionalisation of that obsessive condition, rather than rational, deductive, fact-based thinking.

I would say that was part of my experience with them. They encouraged you to be a little crazy, functional enough for the sakes of business and PR ... but rootlessly crazy all the same. All that "say Baba 10,000 times a day" Janki used to encourage.

Clearly "Destruction" of the world *outside* did not happen but destruction of worldly virtues and values like reason did so internally.

Does St. Peter's Basilica look like a Shivlingum ... clearly, seriously, no.

I suppose the question to ask you Mattheus is why is the Vatican's architecture important to you?

Are there are far more valid and supportable influences of Hinduism onto Christianity? Arguably yes. Was it from BKism 5,000 years ago ... seriously no.
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Mattheus

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Re: The Vatican

Post28 Oct 2018

Vatican and the Shiva Lingam? But what is really going on in the Vatican?

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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post31 Oct 2018

Mattheus wrote:But what is really going on in the Vatican?

An awful lot of mainly homosexual pedophilia, it appears.

It is amazing how State after State, country after country, announces crackdowns and exposés of priest being caught up in child sex abuse, often involving 1,000s of children.

It's so *way* beyond any statistically likelihood, that it is off the register. An impossible to believe that any man passing through and up its ranks to become a bishop, let alone a Pope, would not know about it going on.

Which begs your question, so what is really going on in the Vatican? What is it all about? It is similar but slightly different with our Church of England and homosexuals ... and, truth be stated, there is a broad grey between homosexuality and homosexual pedophillia where the subjects of their attraction are post-pubescent teenaged boys instead, say 11 years upwards (approx 47% of victims).

Strictly speaking, they call it 'hebephilia' and 'ephebophilia' and abult male homosexuals and the politically correct really don't like the two to be conflated but, based on my experience, I would argue that it is. In the US, 81% of the alleged abuse victims recorded were male. Laughably, the PC crowd are trying to remarket homosexual pedophiles as something else different from "real" (adult to adult) homosexuals.

Clearly, in the days before homosexuality became legal in the West (late1960s) and socially acceptable, being a "celibate" priest - was a good cover and an escape from having to marry a woman. Latterly, it appears to have been a known cover for pedophiles; one that flatters their egos and gives them status within society too. I am suspecting narcissism is part of their condition.

Which makes me ask the obvious question whether the Brahma Kumaris in India offers the same cover for, primarily, female homosexuals (lesbians) but also male homosexuals? There used to be a subtle quote in one Murli refer to Sisters who "like to touch each other".

We have documented cases of child sex abuse within the BKs but I suspect they are relatively rare.

I have not watch the video yet.

Just out of interest, were you a Catholic before becoming a BK? I and others have argued that the BKWSU, with its love of power, wealth, property and political influence, is clearly going down the same route as it, rather than a Protestant one.

Perhaps the powerful Brothers behind the scenes who really run it, are just like the powerful bishops that run the Vatican.

And who are the BKs bankers and what are they investing the BKs money in?
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post31 Oct 2018

Perhaps, from our point of view and to keep it BK related, perhaps we can look at the great disconnection within the Church ... how it deifies the female or female archetypes (Mary and other saints worship) and yet subjects them to a second class while acting as a cover for such activities that would be abhorent to almost every woman on the planet.

And its fixation of control over other people's sexuality.

The BKWSU, with its love of pomp, power and wealth - and big buildings and expensive real estate - has been likened to a Vatican by the PBKs (AIVV), who have been likened again to a Protestant reform within the BK movement. A claim that is looking a little tarnished as Virendra Dev Dixit is accused of his own sexual exploitation.

Do the same kind of unresolved, unenlightened disconnections exist within BKism?

Property aquisition in the face of an imminent End of the World might be one.

Theoretically, from a BK point of view - although they'd may be loathed to admit this and apply it in this case - "everything that happens in history is merely a memorial of what they did in the Confluence Age".
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Pink Panther

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Re: The Vatican

Post31 Oct 2018

ex-l wrote:there is a broad grey between homosexuality and homosexual pedophillia ... the PC crowd are trying to remarket homosexual pedophiles as something else different from "real" (adult to adult) homosexuals.

I have to vehemently disagree. Sexuality and pedophilia are two very distinct things - whether homo- or hetero - or any other qualifier.

There’s a lot of research on these topics now. It is known that a person's first sexual experience can influence them for life, positively or negatively, in the same way a person’s first encounter with a dog can influence their relationship to dogs.

If, for example, a girl is raped at a young age, it may affect her so that she hates men for life, or she may be drawn to to same ‘type' of manipulative abusive man again and again. If a boy's first sexual experience is from a male abuser, he may then associate sexual feelings with men or with certain types of men and never learn to relate to women. If he was innately homosexual he may reject homosexuality completely because of his experience and, in a pro-hetero world, spend the rest of his life troubled, unable to relate. That is, there are too many variables involved -social, familial, cultural, economic ...

What the issue is about is abuse of power, imbalance of power and authority, personal choices, maturity and more. What it is not about is homosexuality or heterosexuality.
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ex-l

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Re: The Vatican

Post01 Nov 2018

Pink Panther wrote:What the issue is about is abuse of power ...

Well, relative to religion - in both the case of the Vatican and the Brahma Kumaris - the attraction of an existing powerbase, a high status within society with which to abuse is part of the equation.

And, if you were to draw a Venn diagram of "sexual attraction" and "power", obviously the two circles would overlap.

However, it's a big leap to equate that to willful sexual expression. The individual may be enjoying the power status, the power imbalance, but they are also enjoying the sexual experience, the young body etc. Power is making them have sex.

You'd have to link to which research you are refering as, obviously, there's a whole of LGBTQ academia having hysterics and doing backflips over the last couple (?) of decades attempting to separate the two for the sake of political purposes.

I'd have to correlate it to other research on homosexuality - and personal anecdotes - that underlines the extensive practise of older homosexual males "initiating" (yes, abusing) pre-legal boys, studies of the ages of first encounters, and so on. To be frank, it's not flattering of homosexual male sexual morals and it pretty much casts pedophillia or at least hebephilia, as a norm ... as further evidence by the practises of the exposed Catholic priests. And that those carrying it out, considered themselves homosexual (I think under the influence of political correctness, this may have changed). It is just - as with heterosexual males - there is a preferance towards young flesh and minds over old, and becomes more and more addictive to those indulging in it.

Witness Lekhraj Kirpalani ditching his old wife, "marrying" the young Om Radhe, laying around in cots, sitting her in his lap, feeding her titbits mouth to mouth etc.

For me, if it's male/male, it's homosexual pedophilia; if it male/female, it's heterosexual pedophilia. Statistically, there's very little bisexual or lesbian pedophilia. It's a very male and very male homosexual problem. It's an extreme expression of male homosexuality.

As a heterosexual, am I offended by someone calling male/female "heterosexual pedophilia"? Of course not. It is what it is. The merely fact that there is such a hullabaloo at the correlation between homosexuality and pedophillia suggests to me it is an uncomfortably unresolved issue.

Remember too the history of groups like NAMBLA (man-boy love assocations) and there influence and acceptance within the gay rights movement.

Back to the Vatican ... how do we understand this prevalance, toleration and defence of perverse sexual extremes and abuses behind the facade of "purity" or "celibacy"?

It's easy to see why some - without the will or interest to psychoanalysis it - just mark it up to the prevalance, toleration and defence of evil or the influence of "evil spirits" ... the "Church of Satan", Paul come as the anti-Christ to subvert and destroy Christ's message etc.

I cannot understand why a homosexual would want to join a religion that clearly states homosexuality is a sin and all homosexuals should be stoned to death in the first place. Bit of a give away something's not right, is not it?
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