Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

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GuptaRati 6666

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Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post29 Dec 2018

The BKs seem to have limited information on a soul who is one of the super-stars or super-souls even in their 5000 years cycle. When quantitatively comparing the content of the BK data bank of information with scholarly sources on a soul instrumental in the formation of a politico-religious dynasty of approximating half of the BK Kalpa, the BKs information is the needle in a haystack of data from esoteric and scholarly sources (McCannon, 2010). A meta-analysis is possible (Craffert, 2012; Sheehan, 2014).

In the BK knowledge bank, Jesus is the medium for the Christ soul analogous to the Supreme descending into the body of Dada Lekraj, with some differences. One being the phenomenon in which one the Christ Soul or Holy Spirit has interacted with the Jesus soul it will re-incarnate into like other souls, playing important roles in maintaining the Christian dynasty while undergoing degradation of spiritual entropy like other souls.

The data on Jesus in the BK philosophy is sparse and only in limited ways corroborate historical evidence and evidence from esoteric sources. One other bit of data from the BK paradigm is the idea that the Jesus soul would become a BK. If the Jesus soul has become a BK, would the entity still remain in Gyan? Most likely, a soul with such an illustrious past (Belisle, 2018) would question many of the components of the BK teachings and sooner than later separate itself from teachings, which are the elementary ABCs of spirituality. Due to past life experiences of travels to India as Issa, the entity would have a temporary fascination with BK Gyan (Atlantis Rising, 2006).

Like Siddhartha, historical evidence indicates that Jesus had royal heritage and was most likely a pharaoh (American Empire 39, 2011). The Association for Research and Enlightenment founded by Edgar Cayce decades before the BK organization has demonstrated that the prior to the role inaccurately described in the Pauline Bible, the following were roles played by the Master:
    Amilius;
    Adam;
    Enoch;
    Thoth or Hermes;
    Melchizedek;
    Joseph of Egypt; Joshua;
    Asaph; and
    Zend, the Father of Zoroaster.
The ARE has a record of consistency and reliability of their predictions and corroborations of information with archeological and historical evidence. Though the historical and archeological analyses and interpretations of Ellis (Eastwood, 2016) provide reliable demonstrations of the pharaonic roots of Jesus, his claims of the exile of Jesus in England by the Romans can be disputed using historical sources showing Jesus being resuscitated medically after the crucifixion and his escape to India through Damascus (Ischariot, 2014).

The BKs claim that Lekraj was the Adam or the world, while the ARE and other sources have indicated that Jesus was Adam (Belisle, 2018; Near-Death Experiences and the After Life, 2017). There is also evidence demonstrating that Jesus survived the crucifixion and returned to India, where he lived and taught until his transition at the age of approximately 110 years (Prophet, 1987). His birth and survival of the crucifixion was assisted according to some sources by extraterrestrial entities known Pleiadian ETs (Ischariot, 2014). In the Holy Bible, the Pleiadian ETs have been depicted as angels (OOWK Media, 2018).

As a star seed (DNA Activation., 2017; Higher Self, 2017) or blue ray person, it is highly likely that the soul playing the role of Jesus 2000 plus years ago, would have made contact with the BKs and would have left the organization. The entity would be sensitive to see the contradictions in BK philosophy and armed with the attributes of a star seed or blue ray person advance way beyond the basic ABCs of the BKs.

References

American Empire 39. (2011, January 14). Ralph Ellis - King Solomon , Hiram Abiff & Cleopatra to Christ - Red Ice. [Video File]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50BZMNhe0j4

Atlantis Rising. (2006, Sept/Oct). Did Jesus visit India? New research tracks his missing years to the Far East. Atlantis Rising Magazine, 59. Retrieved from https://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/arti ... sit-india/

Belisle, P. (2018, January). Edgar Cayce on the past lives of Jesus - Patrick Belisle at the Cayce Forum, January 31, 2018. [Video File]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=6nVC6Zu5MS0

Craffert, P. F. (2012). Caretakers, critics, and comparativists: A Meta-Analysis of historical Jesus research. Journal of the Study of Religion, 25(2), 111-135. https://www.jstor.org/stable/24798427

DNA Activation. (2017, September 6). 20 Signs that you’re a powerful starseed in a world you don’t belong. [Video File]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7D_IrAYdSQ

Eastwood, V. (2016). The real Jesus was a rich warrior king! Ralph Ellis. [Video File]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0giFVgbAXY

Higher Self. (2017, March 2). Starseed symptoms due to awakening and DNA activation.
[Video File]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nvLoKk2FRc

Ischariot, J. (2014, January 1). The Talmud of Jmmanuel.pdf (PDFy mirror). Available at https://archive.org/details/pdfy-UgyOJYUQHLjjkzlT

McCannon, T. (2010). Jesus. The explosive story of the 30 lost years and the ancient mystery religions. Charlottesville, VA: Hampton Roads. Available at https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Explosive- ... 1571746072

Near-Death Experiences and the After Life. (2017). Edgar Cayce on the reincarnation past lives of Jesus Christ. Retrieved from https://www.near-death.com/reincarnatio ... s.html#top

OOWK Media. (2018, April). Mary, mother of Jesus was Pleiadian !!! [Video File]. Retrieved from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rKiCddpSVE

Prophet, E.C. (1987). The lost years of Jesus. Gardiner, MT: Summit University Press. Available at https://www.amazon.com/

Sheehan, T. (2014, January 18). Thomas Sheehan: The continuing education course on the historical Jesus. Stanford Continuing Studies Program. Retrieved from https://biblicalstudiesonline.wordpress ... cal-jesus/
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ex-l

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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post29 Dec 2018

I don't know when, precisely, the BKs developed the idea of Christ being a separate soul from Jesus as they now believe.

However, bear in mind that for the first 20 odd years of their cult, they believed that Lekhraj Kirpalani was God himself and had no alternative 'god spirit' within him.

Therefore it could only have been after 1955/56 (around the time they developed the idea that Lekhraj Kirpalani was not God but was just a "Chariot" and had "God" inside him) that they could have developed the idea of a Jesus as a "Chariot" with the Christ soul inside him. If you look at the early versions of The Tree (of humanity), the 5 main prophet souls are merely referred to as "Divine Fathers", as Lekhraj Kirpalani was.

Perhaps it only developed as the first Western BKs arrive in the 1970s and started asking questions as an useful explanation to shut them up? I don't know. Part of BKism is a sort of undocumented 'folklore' element made up by followers to comfort and appease themselves and, ditto, so is part of the later teachings, the Avyakt Murlis, in which Christ is given an elevated status above the other prophet souls.

Why?

Yes, the - as best as I know - folklore version is that Jesus was an lowly, poor performing, inattentive and indisciplined BK who took a few births in their exclusive heaven before reincarnating a number of times before he was possessed by the "Christ soul" during its first birth 500 or 600 odd years later.

In essence, all BKs consider themselves and their leaders to be *much* higher spiritually than Jesus and Christ look down upon him as being underdeveloped ... in their terms, slightly more than 50% less "spiritual" in Jesus's cases, and more than 50% less "spiritual" in the case of the Christ.

In the old days, many Western BKs experienced a fantasy/panic at the thought that they might be the "Jesus soul" or something similar and, yes, according to BKism Jesus would have not been able to follow strict BKism and left.

But can such stuff really be discussed "academically" ... and would not "God" have a better understanding if there really was actually one, and the BKs' one really was it?

The funny thing is, the BKs really put down *both* their god spirit *and* their originally guru Lekhraj Kirpalani portraying them as sort of "buddhus" or simpletons who know nothing about history and religion. Note, Lekhraj Kirpalani did not even know where Judaism fitted in to The Tree of Humanity, and thought that Islam and Mohammedism were different ... and where was poor old Moses in his equation?

File along with debating "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin".

originaltree.jpg
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Pink Panther

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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post30 Dec 2018

Not to mention completely ignoring a quarter or more of the world’s population, with no mention of the oriental religions of Tao, Confucianism, Shinto, the various religions of Africa including West African and Afro-American Voodoo (originally Vodun - meaning spirit), the various indigenous peoples of North, Central and South America, Australia, Polynesians ...
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post30 Dec 2018

There's a saying in politics that people get the politicians they deserve, as in a nation's politicians are a reflection of the nature of the people who elect them (hello Donald Trump).

With regards to religion, perhaps we should modify that to something like, "people imagine the prophets as they would want them to be (or want to be themselves)"?

In the 1930s, some Sindi girls and old ladies got a handsome, rich middle aged man as their 'wish fulfilment' god. You are imagining an enlightened Christ to be a well travelled, esoteric African (Black) Pharaoh. Others reject a personal god and instead embrace a more abstract, intellectual, naturalistic concept of spirituality. The hippie generation imagined a hippie rebel, esoteric yogi Christ, the Orthodox Jews a troublesome heretics and so on ... clearly the concept of the man is 99.99% projection?

If it is true that we "make our gods in our own image", then do we not remake our own god men to our own ideals as well? As in, they are archetypes for us, important to each of us at the time we imagine them, and we project onto them who we would like to be.

did not the idea of a "Black Jesus" and Black Pharoahs arise at the same time as Black Power and the Civil Rights movement within the USA? Wasn't it part-politics, part-spiritual need for Black Americans to imagine their god to be something other than the blue eyed, blonde haired, Charles Heston Jesus of White America?

(I note how very few female gods and god women there have been allowed in areas subjects to the Abrahmanic religions for the last 2,000 years).

Why then may I ask is Jesus Christ in anyway important to you as a spiritual archetype on a personal level today?

From the accounts in early BK books, the BK "Tree of Humanity" lesson only arose after one of the original Brothers saw Gandhi/Independence movement use an image of a tree for their philosophy, and the BKs adopted the idea for themselves. And, of course, they had to inflate their own importance egotistically by putting themselves at the very root and top of it.

I am pretty sure their Jesus was only a 'look good' appeasement for Christian and Western BKs and they and their god knows know thing about the historical Jesus/Jesuses at all and clarified nothing about his existence or not.

Lekhraj Kirpalani and the elders appear to be have been more influenced by Islam in this department, merely adding something into their syncretic mix, as a response to a very simplistic level of discussion about Jesus, historical or not.
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ex-l

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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post30 Dec 2018

What makes me sick is how the BKs sit down with all the multi-faith groups hiding their real thoughts about all the other religion's gods and leaders.

Truth be, the BKs have very, very, very, very little to no knowledge of *any* forms of esotericism ... and *zero* interest in any "worldly" history of religions, or becoming part of the discussion.

As far as I know, they always refused to allow their spirit mediums to get into answering or clarifying any of this kind of stuff, no doubt in order to avoid any controversy and being proven fallible.

All they are interested in is faking and hiding their own history, presumably on the grounds of, "well, if other religions did it, so too can we".

Does anyone know of any instances where they or their god spirit has gotten involved in such stuff?
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post31 Dec 2018

Ex-I and Pink,

I thank you for your invaluable and extensive responses to my post. In a scientific investigation, questions are as important or sometimes more important than the answers. Some of the questions you have asked are important in the formulation of hypotheses for exploration by experimental approaches. The BKs in-doors, have had a condescending attitude to other religions, relegating them to forms of bakti, without any serious scholarship. The Avyakt Murlis have only in a few sentences, stated that Jesus did not die on the cross, a position also taken by Islam, with no details as described in the Koran.

We would think that an organization like the BKs would have done their scholastic home work as other institutions have done and share their esoteric insights into the founders of the many belief systems around the world. As Pink has mentioned Voodooism, which originated from Africa and has influenced the counter-culture era of the 1960s and mid-1970s. NASA has strangely also had an interest in zombification, as a means for applications in ultra-long human space flights.

The Knowledge of the incarnations of Jesus can and will in the future place some major question marks on the trunk of the BK Kalpa tree. Were there two Adams, one for the BKs and another for other belief systems?
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post31 Dec 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:The Avyakt Murlis have only in a few sentences, stated that Jesus did not die on the cross, a position also taken by Islam, with no details as described in the Koran.

Whereas you are correct about the Koran stating that Jesus did not die on the cross, I question whether the BKs and the Avyakt Murlis stated that.

What I remember are BK teachers stating with an impossible authority that "Christ did not suffer" ... as he as a new soul with no bad karma to do so ... but suggesting that Jesus did suffer on the cross ... for his 500 years worth of bad karmas (- from the end of the BKs' Silver Age, 500 years before Christ incarnated).

How could they possible know, and how could they state so when there's not even consensus he was cruxified?

Is it not just all like arguing over which fairy story is better?

Various Islamic scholars' versions of the Jesus story is worth looking into, for anyone interested, as it has been very largely written out of Western history subject to both Christian and Jewish influences ... but I am not sure it is any more true or real. Or whether it is just not more appeasement of previous religions. In Islam Jesus is a prophet (in order to appease Christians and wind up the Jews ... who teach that he is in hell and boiling in semen and/or excrement), but not quite such a good prophet as their prophet.

And now the BKs come along and make an even bigger prophet out of Lekhraj Kirpalani on top ... as any Sindhi knows, they are plenty of profits to be made out of prophets!

Does it really matter any more ... or to the rest of the world?

Personally, I lament the influence of the Abrahamic religions upon the rest of the world and wish they'd remained in their own flea bitten desert, banging heads with each other and fighting over their own desert god/s.

As Brian Cohen might have asked on behalf of American Indians, African and East Asian, "What have the Romans Catholics ever done for us?" [- 'Life of Brian'. Python, Monty (1979)]

John Leguizamo answered that recently in his show 'Latin History For Dummies'. It went something like; slavery, genocide, smallpox, plague, syphilis, biological warfare etc etc etc ... all in the name of "Jesus". I suppose patriachy and pedophilia should be on that list too?

One of the latest things to come out of the USA is the bizarre marriage between the Christian and Jewish/Zionist Right Wing ... happening to bring on Armageddon in the Middle East ... is the idea that Islamic god, and the god of the Christians and Jews, are not the same god.

That Allah is some other god.

I did not even know they had reconciled the psychopathic narcissitic Jewish god of the Old Testament, and the loving, forgiving Christian god of the New Testament.

And now the BKs come along and claim their god Shiva is everyone's god ... all wrapped up and bundled in ... except only *they* the BKs know his true nature.

I am pretty sure that no Jesus anywhere or any when would want to have anything to do with any of them.
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post01 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:in order to appease Christians and wind up the Jews ... who teach that he is in hell and boiling in semen and/or excrement

Traditional Judaism doesn't have hell, or even Satan as an evil adversary. The word for soul in Hebrew is the word for breath (see a recent topic ”What is Soul anyway?”) and the person dies when the soul dies, has left them, i.e. when the breath is gone. Lucifer only appears in the later books - particularly the Book of Job - where he is God’s instrument to test Job’s faith. Any concepts fo Satan or Hell only appear after the Babylonian exiles where they brought back ideas from Zoroastrianism.
ex-l wrote:One of the latest things to come out of the USA is the bizarre marriage between the Christian and Jewish/Zionist Right Wing ... happening to bring on Armageddon in the Middle East ... is the idea that Islamic god, and the god of the Christians and Jews, are not the same god. That Allah is some other god.

I did not even know they had reconciled the psychopathic narcissistic Jewish god of the Old Testament, and the loving, forgiving Christian god of the New Testament.

Their political rationales are quite different. The Zionists are exploiting the Right wing-nut Christians to consolidate Jewish expansionism into Palestinian territories and to ensure armaments and political support. The Ultra Orthodox Jews want ”Greater Israel” back even though there was only a single kingdom for a short time (and I believe it's part of Alexander’s empire which should all be returned to Greece :-D - or FYROM! hahaha) while the Evangelist Christians see that as a trigger for the Second Coming, which the Jews of course don't believe in, so they’ll gladly exploit that.
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post01 Jan 2019

Pink Panther wrote:Traditional Judaism doesn't have hell, or even Satan as an evil adversary.

I don't know which Judaism is the authentic or traditional one. I don't suppose they all agree which either.

The freaky stuff tends to come up in the Talmud. I have to correct myself. It was Balaam who was boiled in semen. Really ... who thinks up this stuff? And where would they even get enough to boil a man in?

Pre-BK I was inspired by the idea of the "esoteric" New Age version of jesus Christ ... a mystic yogi who went to India to study with the masters. I was deluded to think that, if it existed, I could may be follow that path too, seek the master and become some kind of healer too. I ended up in the BKs. It was a big mistake ...

Having no real world experience to ground my fantasies, and being deluded by other deluded individuals who wrote such books, I set myself to be exploited by one spiritual charlatan or another. Hence my caution to others.

Is there real world mystical stuff out there? I would have to say, yes. Did I find it with the BKs ... absolutely no.
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post01 Jan 2019

Many ex-BKs who joined the BKs in the 1970s and 1980s are most likely star seeds or blue ray souls. Individuals who joined the BKs later, especially those who become ex-BKs after 1980s as teens or young adults are indigo souls.
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post02 Jan 2019

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Many ex-BKs who joined the BKs in the 1970s and 1980s are most likely star seeds or blue ray souls. Individuals who joined the BKs later, especially those who become ex-BKs after 1980s as teens or young adults are indigo souls.

You been eating the reds, man?

I think like ex-l said, we took the first thing that suggested it was the way to go. We thought it was one thing and it turned out to be another. Took more than 6 months for it to wear off for most of us.

All colours of pills & people are artificial, artifices, pretty packaging.

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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post02 Jan 2019

One of the other big problems with all of this mystical stuff --- and that is not the same as saying none of it is true --- is that the proponents of it tend not to agree with each other, and their claims and predictions would often appear to be incompatible or contradictory with each others.

For example, around the time Lekhraj Kirpalani was kicking off with his Krishna complex and claiming to be God Brahma, another man was creating equally intense psychic phenomena and apparently having equally intense and wonderful psychic or spiritualistic experiences. Although less well known, and less well capitalised upon than Cayce today, or Mesmer before him, in his day he was world renown ... and also claimed to have met and channelled not just Christ but other ascended masters too.

His name was Murdo MacDonald-Bayne (1887–1955) and one of his books was called, 'The Yoga Of The Christ' a sequel to his earlier classic 'Beyond The Himalayas' in which he travel to Tibet and claimed to meet and study with many masters both worldly and otherworldly.

He too inspired a "mandli" (a circle) called the the Universal Science Group some of whose practises pre-date or pre-empt many the BKs claim for themselves.

The problem any student of mysticism has is in having to square up all of the different "Christs" and the differences in their teachings.

MacDonald-Bayne did exist, and did do many wonderful and miraculous things during his life. It is thought that he was the inspiration for the later charlatan who called himself T. Lobsang Rampa, a fictional character who - like Carlos Castaneda's fictional Don Juan Matus - inspired many to go seek and take up "the spiritual path".

They certainly inspire many early Western BKs to look to "The East".

I, personally, accept that such miraculous lives do happen ... I've just never found a system, explanation or rationale for how they do happen. Or that reliably and reproducibly makes them happen ... if we were to adopt some scientific rigour.

I think that is is fair to say, even Lekhraj Kirpalani did not really know and was not fully in control, of what was happening to him. OK, in his case we have the expensive initiation into some "power" by the Bengali Saddhu but that's all. No practise, just "kaboom", a mental breakdown and then decades trying to work it all out afterwards.

And why do these "powers" always have to be "God" or "Christ" ... why couldn't they just be the next species or level up or someone just as mundane as we are but with just a little extra we don't have yet?

I am a little suspcious when anyone having any kind of inexplicable experience jump to them claim it *must* be a god, a Christ, or some other exceptional influence.

Could not that be a symptom of the kinds of delusions of grandeur that the Brahma Kumaris' Lekhraj Kirpalani took to his extremes?
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post03 Jan 2019

There's another slight problem, why do the messages of all the different Christs differ or keep changing?

I suppose someone might say he talks according to the time or people, but does that really wash?

As with the BKs and their god spirits, would any adherent be allowed or dare to sit down and ask, "Well, why did you say this to them ... or that at that time ... was it really you or someone else? How many of you are there?".

Could it all not just be a different sort of land grab ... an attention grab, or a grab of the intellectual property and status attached to the Jesus story?

And what is the scientific or even Buddhist position of debating stuff that, ultimately, is really unanswerable at this point or within a spiritualistic context. A spirit, or spiritualist, can claim to be anyone. Even "God" if you believe Lekhraj Kirpalani and the BKs.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to believe a spiritualist who said they were channelling an ordinary Joe, rather than the son of Joseph. Why do the dead always have to be someone so special?
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post04 Jan 2019

Ex-I,

Thank you for your questions, arguments, and counter-arguments.

There is a scientific approach to conducting research on the historical Jesus. It will have to be a mixed methods approach consisting of quantitative methods and qualitative methods. Quantitative methods with its use of deductive reasoning has its limitations, especially when applied to rare occurrences.

Pink,

I have had ET experiences, I am not the only physician-scientist who has. Edgar Mitchell has given an extensive discourse on ETs and their activities on the earth.
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Re: Would Jesus Have Been a BK or Remained a BK?

Post04 Jan 2019

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:Thank you for your questions, arguments, and counter-arguments.

I would not like to say "counter", more 'parallel' ... and I like to keep conversations linked back to our BK experiences.

I apologise but, the truth is, I have no idea who or if the "real Jesus" was, and no interest any more. Post-BKism, I like to say that I have been "cured of religion" and, especially, of wanting to be a "guru". Overall, I see the continuing influences of the competing Middle Eastern monotheistic religions over Western society as a negative and consider that we ought to reject them all. I describe them as "headbangers" ... they seem to have spent 2,000 plus years doing exactly that, like rams fighting over territory.

I still hope there is a truly mystic path in life ... that there are "doors to perception" and enlightenment or christhoods ... but I've not found them, and I am absolutely sure that anyone selling one does not know them too.

I did met a man once whose story was that "Christ" just appeared to him in person and started teaching him. He become a world renown "spiritual leader" and was clearly not mad but highly charismatic and "spiritually powerful". His name was John De Ruiter and for a while he appeared to be replaying the whole Early Christian thing and built a circle of followers around him. There was a real 'spiritual high' surrounding him that almost sucked me in again.

Last I heard he had left his wife and was sleeping with two attractive twin daughers of a wealthy followers who had financed him, and spending the money his cult made on huge 4x4 trucks to go playing in the mountains with. Enviable, perhaps, but not where I thought it would go. I read they had to sue him for childcare after. He had sex with a number of his female followers.

His story was re-written for public consumption as a "sponaneous awakening" and he or the group is now worth multi-millions.

I have met others, psychics, who also claimed to have also claimed to have similar spontaneous spiritual/psychic experiences (but not of Jesus/Christ ... did not Eckhart Tolle and Masanobu Fukuoka also both have their own one, as Lekhraj Kirpalani did?), so I accept they do happen ... whatever they might be.

I did not have one in my life. I made the mistake of following ... idolising I suppose ... those who I accept did.

But how do their stories all end?

I've learnt to be patient, stand back and observe rather than become excited and jump on the latest bandwagon.

There's an author who recently wrote a revisionary book about Jesus from Islamic sources. One of his conclusions was that it was John the Baptist on the cross, and that 'Yohanna' had a far greater role in the religion than is generally understood. John/Yohanna does not even figure as a blip on the Brahma Kumaris' screen.
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