BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happened)

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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post01 Jul 2012

Look at Robin Gibb ... the BKs chased after, waved him around like a God, used his big houses to impress people ... and all the time he was having sex with his young, Asian housekeeper behind the back of his BK wife. Another VIP was taking drunks, and another having a torrid sexual affair ... what is the "purity" and spirituality of such people? They aren't even told what the real agenda is.

What spiritual message does that send out to the world? The use of VIPs by the BKs is obvious ... sure, it's advertising or "status by association" but who does the world think is greater, the BKs or Mother Teresa?

Mother Teresa never went chasing VIPs, they came chasing her because she just got on with good work. How many millions have the BKs spent chasing VIPS and providing stages for them and how successful has it been?

For me, the inner message is just materialistic ... one of spiritual hypocrisy; one rule for the rich and powerful, another for the poor and weak, and using people if they can.

I think it is also a con trick to convince the adherents that all of their efforts and donation is doing something. "Look Dadi Janki standing next to the Prime Minister ... she must be powerful". Trust me, the politicians and popstars are just using the BKs back.
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bkti-pit

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post02 Jul 2012

They say "serving VIPs" but actually they are using them or trying to use them.
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Masterjadhunath

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post02 Jul 2012

Even before the current Information Era, the image of an institution has always been critical for the day to day function of the company or institution. IPs and VIPs can, by their associations, damange or enhance the BK brand name.
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sanju273

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post27 Jun 2018

Om Shanti Shivani Didi,

I am 38 years old male wanting to be BK and ready to follow all condition except celibacy.

Is it possible for me to be BK WITHOUT FOLLOWING CELIBACY?

I am confused please guide me what to do.
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Pink Panther

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post27 Jun 2018

Sanju273 - the BKs will take whatever you give them. They used to be strict about celibacy and where they took donatiosn from, now they realise that more donations will come from the wider market.

They will say its OK to not be celibate and they will accept you superficially and be nice to you, but you will be seen as second-rate, a sap who will be told the world is going to end - except they will say ”transformed” which means all humanity needing to die so that they may enjoy Sat-yuga.

Once you have been sucked in, they will make you feel welcome and invite you to donate time, money and energy to their cause.

You will feel good, feel "high” but they will suck you dry. And the more you invest in them the less likely you will feel able to leave if you are unhappy, your identity becomes tied with them.

I was BK for over 15 years (and still know some BKs and their activiites) I know what I am talking about.

Find your spirituality somewhere where you retain full independence of thought and action. Find real true love in a real whole person, mind and body, not in promotors of feel-good airy-fairy tales that treat you either like a child, a bank account or a source of labour.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post28 Jun 2018

sanju273 wrote:Is it possible for me to be BK WITHOUT FOLLOWING CELIBACY?

No, not at all. And bear in mind celibacy within BKism includes no masturbation too.

From a BK point of view, your question demonstrates a total lack of awareness of what BKism and what the BKs believe, and possibly a tendency towards a sort of compartmentalisation within yourself.

Sex within BKism is the path of self-destruction. It will ultimately lead to shame and exclusion. You will be looked down upon by other BKs and shunned. The Seniors will warn others of the opposite sex away from you. You will be seen as a source of evil, ignorance and impurity.

And every day, several times, you will be reminded about how ignorant, impure and "devilish" you are ... because that is what the teachings say. There is no negotiation. They and their god is right, you are wrong.

The next question to arise is, why would you want to join a religion who god spirit and gurus teaches and demand celibacy ... but not be celibate?

Would not that be considering yourself and your understanding of life to be superior to theirs? You think you know better ... they think they know better absolutely ... they claim it is god who is teaching them ... therefore you think God is wrong.

Why on earth join a religion whose god is wrong thinking?

I suspect the answer is to do with something else, some kind of ego. An attraction to the look, or status, or free facilities, the appeal of borrowing and echoing BKism and appearing to be more spiritual or acting a mini guru ... or whatever.

You want to wear the facade of a spiritual person but in your heart and loins be a worldly persion. Again, that is a disastrous path to start on.

Just be yourself, be honest, spend your life with people who share your own values.

You clearly have no real idea what BKism is about. It's not HInduism.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post28 Jun 2018

Celibacy or brahmacharya, has its role in stages on the spiritual path. I do not think I have met many senior BKs who are authorities on brahmacharya, except, perhaps the late Dadi Chandramani.

There is also the aspect of living a monastic life or brahmacharya life in a Western society. I remembered when I returned from a visit to Madhuban, several of my female class mates missed me and though they knew lived a BK life, welcomed me back to medical school with crushing hugs and kisses. I did not reciprocate, but was not cold to their warm greetings. One beautiful young lady never spoke to me again. Another, who seemed to have had a per-meditated crush on me, announced in one class to all of my medical class mates that I lacked libido, although I never dated her and she had only greeted me to welcome me back from India.

To this day, one beautiful lady, an Ivy league trained philosopher who was my great friend, would not talk to me after 40 years although her Sister and I are still friends. That's because she was passionate about taking our friendship beyond a Platonic level, that would have allowed her to leave her fiancee, a young physician and marry me.

There can be social ill effects of observing celibacy, East or West.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post28 Jun 2018

I took some nasty flack from the BKs for the Platonic relationship, though my Platonic girlfriend was materially helpful to the BK movement.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post28 Jun 2018

GuptaRati 6666 wrote: There can be social ill effects of observing celibacy, East or West.

One of the wisest sayings on the subject that I have heard goes,
    "A woman will forgive you for making a pass at her, but she's never forgive you for *not* making a pass at her".
I encourage individuals to study the history of the BK movement and its founder to understand its kernel, or core.

Firstly, Lekhraj Kirpalani *did* indulge himself in comforts and familarities with the young women, went as far as to lie around on cots together, have semi-naked group baths, feed his chosen young "spiritual partner" (Om Radhe) mouth to mouth - something she did not deny but defended when challenged - and ultimately, effectively ‘married' her, despite already having a simple, dutiful middle aged wife and young children.

The Brahma Kumaris only adopted their strict interpretation of celibacy because of the outraged reaction of society around them to his Krishna-like indulgences. It was OK for him, but no one else ... not even the husbands of said young women.

Secondly, Lekhraj Kirpalani often voiced his regret and dissatisfaction at becoming married to his simple, old dutiful wife who was - in essence - written out of the cult's story when he adopted the talented and apparently attractive young teenager Om Radhe.

He even went as far as to blame and denounce cinema as the gateway to hell and ban BKs from ever going to see films ... because he was so stupid and impressionable that after he went to the cinema, and saw a romantic movie, he had the idea to marry.

He blamed his first unsatifactory marriage on the influence of the movies.

Only later this psychology became wrapped up in the garb of Gandhi and Sanyasi-like abstinence and enforced upon all and everyone ... regardless of their human or spiritual needs ... for all time. In short, a sort of ritualistic adoption for the sake of impressions.

By playing the celibacy card, the BKs could avoid the early criticisms of Lekhraj Kirpalani's cult and cash in on Hindus' beliefs and superstitions ... they love the word "purity".

In the real world, sex can be pure and a lack of sex impure (eg symptomatic of unresolved social and psychological problems).

Each individual needs to find their own way, according to their own development. A true spiritual guide would help them to do so in the best way.

In my opinion, BKism is just a confidence trick ... rooted in hypocrisies ... playing the spiritual card in order to acquire money, power, influence ... whatever.
    Look at how many leading Brahma Kumaris have suffered from female hormone type imbalances/cancers etc ... and ask, is their system really that "whole"?

    Look at how many leading Brahma Kumaris are grossly overweight to the point of obesity ... and ask, what are they attempting to sublimate by overeating?
Be honest and ask yourself why you *really* want to join the BKs but not follow the total sexual abstinence - even in a dream state - that they demand of their adherents?
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sanju273

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post29 Jun 2018

What I meant to ask is, I am 38 years old married male having 2 kids, I like to be associated with Brahmakuaris. The only problem is, I have to live a married life with my wife, like husband and wife, because if one is not ready to follow celibacy and it can lead to divorce.

Now guide me what can be done.

Can I follow both family life as well as spiritual life? Or do I have to sacrifice one? Will it be fair for the life partner who is not ready to follow celibacy?
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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post29 Jun 2018

sanju273 wrote:The only problem is ... it can lead to divorce.

Now guide me what can be done.

It will lead to a divorce and a great deal of unhappiness and conflict - for you and them. You have no right to do so to your wife and family. It is not just wrong to attempt to force, manipulate or coerce others into a way of life, it is always counter-productive, driving them further away.

It is something subtle to understand, but Brahma Kumarism is not "spiritual life" ... it is Brahma Kumarism. The Brahma Kumaris have re-marketed themselves as being "spiritual" and like to think they have a monopoly on spirituality ... but they do not.

If you agree that honor, loyalty, compassion, responsibility, integrity are all "spiritual" ... then you need to put the commitment to your wife and family first, and forget Brahma Kumarism.

You would be better to cut the BKs and BKism out of your life entirely, because it is oppositional to married life and will destroy it. It's aim is merely to consume families and their wealth and property.

If your wife is not interested, you have to honor her and put your children first, at least until they are, say, 21 and you have fulfilled your duty to them, eg helped them become self-sustaining in life.

You can be "spiritual" without the Brahma Kumaris. Much of the BKs spirituality is second hand anyway ... why not just go directly to the source instead?

If you are married already, the only sensible thing to do is choose a spiritual path that accepts married individuals.
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sanju273

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post29 Jun 2018

Om Shanti. I am 37 years male having two children. 3 years ago I happened to come at Mount Abu. We both husband and wife were there. Now my wife is forcing me to follow celibacy without my consultation.

I find it difficult to follow celibacy as I have been leading married life for 13 years. She force me to stay away which is impossible for me. It leads to conflict in the family. I have approached Brahmakuaries for peace but now conditions is the opposite. I don't know what to do. Please let me know.

I don't want that my family life should suffer because of it. Please help me to sort it out. Otherwise we may get separated and our children will suffer.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post29 Jun 2018

OK, my apologies ... it's your wife who is the BK convert?

Unfortunately, that's a very typical equation. Try and get her out of it and away from them as soon as possible. The Brahma Kumaris are very skilled at separating husbands and wives, destroying families and taking families' wealth and property.

I am short of time today, so perhaps someone else will reply.

There may be a possibility that your wife might be using BKism at a tool to escape the marriage.

How deeply involved is she? Is her family involved?

You have been caught by their "honey trap".
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sanju273

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post30 Jun 2018

In fact, I also like few things of Brahmakuaris and I have been practicing them in life. THe only difficulty is that I found it difficult to follow celibacy imposed by my wife. Because it leads me to do something unethical which I belive sin and I don't want to do any sin by keeping extramarital affairs. I wanted to be loyal with her. But her imposition of celibacy is putting me in trouble. I am very much distrubed. Please guide me properly. Is it necessary for married people who are associated with the Brahma Kumaris to follow celibacy?
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ex-l

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Re: BK Shivani on Transparency & Sex Abuse (it must've happe

Post30 Jun 2018

So the real problem is, your wife has become a BK, and is refusing sex, and you are not.

The "few things of Brahmakuaris" are 'the few thing'. I doubt they belong to the BKs.

You asked a question which is, "can I follow BKism without following celibacy?"

The answer is no. No, from a BK point of view; no, from a rational non-BK point of view. Sex is diametrically opposite to BKism. To practise sex and BKism would be self-destructive.

It strikes me you really don't know what BKism teaches yet. Every Murli teaching it says the same thing, no sex, no sexual thoughts, no sexual dreams, no touching, no affection, no attachment ... it is the destruction of your old relationship and if you are not practising it, but she is, it will end up the same. The pressure will be too great. To them, sex is the number obstacle, evil, impure etc.

What will happen is that the BKs will teach her to slow wean you off sex. And, yes, that might even include divorce or you finding sex outside the relationship. Or her just lying back and letting you do sex on her body like she is a dead person while remembering their Baba (that is genuine advice giving within BKism).

If you still want sex, in your heart you don't want BKism. You don't actually believe in it, at least subconsciously your mind is saying it does not believe.

You want to keep away from it and get her out too otherwise you will end up living in your own house with a stranger. "Like Brother and Sister", as they say.

BKism is about power in relationships and acquisition of property. By dividing you from your wife, they will be able to take over your house, or property, or family income. She will be loyal to them, not you and not your family. All of your family property will slowly be used not to serve your family interests, but to serve their interest.

I have been involved with BKism since the early 1980s and studied directly under Dadi Janki and other Didis.

I have witnessed this situation many times. I have sat and watch Dadi Janki separate couples and turn them into "Brother and Sister" ... that the Brother has to pay for ... even send one member away to another part of the country to separate them. I have listen to the Didis and Dadis instruct the one person in a family or relationship to lie to and deceive other family members in order to separate gradually.

Unless you can get away from the BKs, you and your family is doomed and at best you will become a financial support and free taxi driver for them.
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