Atma - Paramatma meeting.

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shivsena

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Atma - Paramatma meeting.

Post23 Sep 2006

Dear PBK Brothers.

Murli quote; "Atma paramatma alag rahe bahu kaal, sunder mela lagaa jab Satguru mila dalal", meaning that the souls and Supreme Soul have been seperated for a long time, (5000 years) and their wonderful meeting takes place in Sangamyug through the middleman (broker). Please give your views as to who are these souls (atmas) who meet the Supreme Soul (paramatma) and who is this dalal (broker-middle man) through' whom the souls meet the Supreme Soul.

Also there is another Murli quote which says, "Har 5000 saal baad atma aur paramatma ka mela lagta hai", meaning that every 5000 years the souls and Supreme Soul meet together. Has this moment of meeting of souls and Supreme Soul Shiva has it occured sometime in past (if so, please specify when) or is it destined to happen at a future date?

Waiting for the views of my Brothers.

shivsena.
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arjun

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Post24 Sep 2006

Dear Shivsena Bhai,
Omshanti. As per the Advanced Knowledge, a meeting between the souls and the Supreme Soul in the form of Father and children had taken place at the beginning of the Yagya for a few years. But that meeting took place only to give birth to the Brahmin children and then the Father and children got separated due to some reasons.

Since 1976 the meeting between the souls and the Supreme Soul is again taking place numberwise in the form of Father. It is taking place for all those souls who realize that the Sun of Knowledge is still present in the world of Brahmins. These souls got separated from the Yagya and Father for a long time and are getting reunited numberwise.

The Dalaal (middleman) referred to here is the soul of Prajapita (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit).

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
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shivsena

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Post26 Sep 2006

arjun wrote:The Dalaal (middleman) referred to here is the soul of Prajapita (Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit).

Dear arjun Bhai.

You mean to say that Ram's soul (or Ram's body) is the middleman/broker through' whom we PBKs are meeting the Father bindi Shiva. How can meeting take place between two unequal entities? We PBKs are all still in body consciousness and Supreme Soul Shiva is completely devoid of body-consciousness, so how can meeting between the soul and Supreme Soul Shiva take place? Also if we PBKs have been meeting the Supreme Soul Shiva since 1976, why is there no transformation in any of the PBKs? We PBKs as a family are going the same way as the BKs, degrading from Satopradhan stage to Tamopradhan stage during the shooting period. Once we meet the Supreme Soul Shiva in person we should have chadti kala and not girti kala. This is what I have not understood.

OK om shanti---shivsena
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andrey

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Post27 Sep 2006

Dear Brother,
Yes, meeting of the soul and the Supreme Soul is possible only if the soul is in the state of soul conciousness that is individual numberwise stage. Just as the Father Prajapita can get influenced by the color of the company but eliminate that influence through yaadh, children can do the same numberwise.

There is nirakar BapDada and Avyakt BapDada.

Avyakt Vani is Shrimat when it is clarified. Baba even clarifies trance messages. He can take a newspaper and narrate Advanced Knowledge. Whatever He speaks like this is too Shrimat. Murlis through Brahma Baba, although it has been the soul of Shiva who has spoken them, but Shrimat comes from only one – means one mouth. So this may be also not be Shrimat because what Shrimat can be there if it is not understood, for to be understood it has to be explained, and this task has not been done through BB, but only the task of narration. Then it has to be applied into practice, so the role of Karavanhar [the one who gets the task done through others] is needed, That is not he role through BB. The role through BB is the one who does himself.

Yes, Brahma can be in the night of ignorance along with Brahmins but will he, Brahma, be the one to bring the day? When the Moon [Brahma] shines in the sky do we call that day? A star [soul] can shine bright but no star can bring the light of the day of knowledge. In the day it is not difficult to see the sun. But the light of the day is not of any star or moon it is the light of the sun.
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post27 Sep 2006

Bhai Shivsena, Om Shanti

I would like to give my understanding on these particular points you raised :)
shivsena wrote:You mean to say that Ram's soul (or Ram's body) is the middleman/broker through' whom we PBKs are meeting the Father bindi Shiva.

Not Ram's soul, body only. The Murli is quite definite about this fact. Also Baba has explained this fact in very clear terms.
shivsena wrote:How can meeting take place between two unequal entities? We PBKs are all still in body consciousness and Supreme Soul Shiva is completely devoid of body-consciousness, so how can meeting between the soul and Supreme Soul Shiva take place?

Numberwise based on the hardness of our peel of bodyconciousness. Where is it said that there cannot be a numberwise connection between 2 unequal entities? I know myself without this connection with the unlimited my intellect would still be incredibly slow & my mind troubled by Maya. So certainly we can have some level of rememberence/connection even in a degraded form, can we not?
shivsena wrote:Also if we PBKs have been meeting the Supreme Soul Shiva since 1976, why is there no transformation in any of the PBKs? We PBKs as a family are going the same way as the BKs, degrading from Satopradhan stage to Tamopradhan stage during the shooting period.

I would disagree that there is no transformation in any of the PBK's, how does one know this? Efforts would be incognito at this stage.

ShivBaba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) has said in Murli that first seeds of the Suryavanshi would become complete and then Chandravanshi and then the other religions which form the majority of the seeds would become complete numberwise after that. We all spin in The Cycle of faith and faithlessness and go through the shooting of pure to impure. This needs to take place. Its not like we can circumvent this, the night has to pass.
shivsena wrote:Once we meet the Supreme Soul Shiva in person we should have chadti kala and not girti kala. This is what I have not understood.

Yes, we have had the Supreme Soul Shiva in our presence. We may accept him to be present in the Chariot after being told by somone, but has it truly fitted into our intellect? Have we had the true realisation of this being truth? Based of our study, rememberence and efforts to follow Shrimat correctly, that much we would realise.
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shivsena

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Post27 Sep 2006

Dear PBK bothers.

According to the general interpretations based on advance knowledge---the following is the belief--3 souls in the body of VDD--and based on each soul's part they get the title.

Shiva+Veerendra Dev Dixit = ShivBaba = bap-teacher-satguru.

Ram+Veerendra Dev Dixit = ?????

Krishna+ Veerendra Dev Dixit= Sangamyugi Krishna studying RajYoga taught by Supreme Soul Shiva.

Then the question arises who is Alaf bap?---and who is Bharat???

Waiting for your views.

shivsena.
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john

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Post27 Sep 2006

Dear Shivasena Bhai

For clarity could you please Identify where the Murli quotes you use are from, .i.e. Sakar Murli, Avyakt Vani, Murli Clarifications.

We are trying to uphold this practise for general clarity and to help the general public who may come upon this site.
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pbktrinityshiva

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Post28 Sep 2006

shivsena wrote:Also if we PBKs have been meeting the Supreme Soul Shiva since 1976, why is there no transformation in any of the PBKs? We PBKs as a family are going the same way as the BKs, degrading from Satopradhan stage to Tamopradhan stage during the shooting period.

I found this Murli point to be relevant 8)

VCD* No.455, Audio Cassette No.941 dated 14.6.06 (Gorakhpur)
Clarification of Murli dated 9.3.67

Ref. No.VCD*., Email dated 16.09.06


....One should be alive as well as free from sorrows and one should keep experiencing pleasures also. Even such souls, which experience such pleasures experience downfall in the shooting period. That is why there is no need to be afraid that our stage is declining. Father says - this is a shooting of the declining and rising stage (utarti aur chadhti kalaa) of the 5000 years drama. This task of shooting will keep taking place till the revelation of the third personality. For e.g. all those for whom the revelation of the second personality keeps taking place, they enter the pure stage. They enter the stage of becoming dedicated. Although there are BK souls, they are coming even now; even then they come in the pure stage. Now the shooting of the degraded (taamasi) stage is going on in a collective form (saamuhik roop). It is the the last phase of even that stage. The period of shooting within shooting, the period of interval is going on. Even then, whichever new soul is entering the path of Advanced Knowledge, experiences such a pure stage. It can go last so fast. That is why Father says - this third personality would also get revealed before the children numberwise ...
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andrey

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Post29 Sep 2006

real p. Sangamyug

Is there an unreal purushottam Sangamyug? Purushottam Sangamyug is said to be 40 year. This is the age for the highest on high souls in the world to be revealed that happened in 76. What are we waiting for? The shooting of the Golden Age has end. Avyakt BapDada even said a long tome ago that the rosary of 108 is ready to 90%. That the 100 are ready to merge their thoughts, but the 8 fluctuate a lot. So who knows in the present moment to what percent it is ready? After all these numbers are fixed.
Ram+Veerendra Dev Dixit = ?????

If Ram means incorporeal Ram than these combination becomes ShivBaba. If Ram means corporeal Ram than these souls are one and the same, like you say the soul of Krisha and Dada Lekhraj.
Krishna+ Veerendra Dev Dixit= Sangamyugi Krishna studying RajYoga taught by Supreme Soul Shiva. –
I think the soul of Ram himself is the Sangamyugi Krishna.
Then the question arises who is Alaf bap?---and who is Bharat???

I also think it is one and the same soul.
the meaning of BapDada'' as this has been a very recent churning after reading the Murli point " BapDada say Om Shanti to the children''--now who says Om Shanti--is it Supreme Soul Shiva combined with Krishna(as the BKs think) or is it Ram+Krishna combined".

Bap is said for the soul of Ram, and Dada for the soul of Krishna. This is the wonderfull couple. They are Father and son, husband and wife. Supreme Soul Shiv is always one, always alone, always separate. He cannot be combined. Maybe Shiv looks at them as combined when he says BapDada through the soul of Brahma Baba, even though the soul of Krishna is not in the body of Ram at that time, but He sees the three aspects of time.
advance Bhakti

Baba says the difference between Bhakti and Gyan is in Bhakti there is speaking in Gyan doing.
As for how one can distinguish Supreme Soul from another soul, it can be possible when you realise that when you go to Paramdham in remembrance, Father will be there and will wait for you. If you feel power, love, peace, happiness coming from that Point of Light, you may be sure it is God.

In the Sould world there is nothing but peace, silence, stillness. Happiness, love is here, felt through the body. We can feel the peace of the Soul World also here in the body. But in the Soul World there is no exchange. The soul is like non-living.
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shivsena

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please summarise

Post29 Sep 2006

Andrey wrote:Dear Brother,
Yes, meeting of the soul and the Supreme Soul is possible only if the soul is in the state of soul conciousness that is individual numberwise stage. Just as the Father Prajapita can get influenced by the color of the company but eliminate that influence through yaadh, children can do the same numberwise.

There is nirakar BapDada and Avyakt BapDada.

Dear andrey Brother.
I have heard 'avaykt BapDada' but this is the first time i have heard the word" nirakar BapDada", can you quote any Vani date where this is mentioned and how this is different from avaykt BapDada?

Andrey wrote:Avyakt Vani is Shrimat when it is clarified. Baba even clarifies trance messages. He can take a newspaper and narrate Advanced Knowledge. Whatever He speaks like this is too Shrimat. Murlis through Brahma Baba, although it has been the soul of Shiva who has spoken them but Shrimat comes from only one – means one mouth. So this may be also not be Shrimat because what Shrimat can be there if it is not understood, for to be understood it has to be explained, and this task has not been done through Brahma Baba, but only the task of narration. Then it has to be applied into practice, so the role of Karavanhar [the one who gets the task done through others] is needed, That is not he role through Brahma Baba. The role through Brahma Baba is the one who does himself.

Yes, Brahma can be in the night of ignorance along with Brahmins but will he, Brahma, be the one to bring the day? When the Moon [Brahma] shines in the sky do we call that day? A star [soul] can shine bright but no star can bring the light of the day of knowledge. In the day it is not difficult to see the sun. But the light of the day is not of any star or moon it is the light of the sun.

Pardon me, I have read your views 2-3 times but i am not able to get the gist of what you are trying to say could you please summarise your views into something more simpler which i can understand.

ok--shivsena.
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shivsena

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OK

Post29 Sep 2006

John wrote:For clarity could you please Identify where the Murli quotes you use are from, .i.e. Sakar Murli, Avyakt Vani, Murli Clarifications.

We are trying to uphold this practise for general clarity and to help the general public who may come upon this site.

Dear john Bhai.

All the above, which i have written, are not Murli points. They are the general interpretations as per the Advanced Knowledge which have been taught to PBKs in 7 days Advance Course. Whenever i use Murli points or Vani points, i will try to mention the dates. OK.

shivsena.
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shivsena

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Post01 Oct 2006

Andrey wrote:I think the soul of Ram himself is the Sangamyugi Krishna.
Then the question arises who is Alaf bap?---and who is Bharat???

I also think it is one and the same soul.

Dear andrey Bhai.

There are many PBKs who think that Ram's soul is Sangamyugi Krishna; but if all PBKs would read the advance Gyan ki sanjeevni (nagada 8 - 9th para on the last page under ''Gawde ka chora"); it has been clearly written that ''Brahma (Krishna) ki soul hi uss gramin balak mein pravesh karke Sangamyugi Krishna ka part bajati hai" (clearly meaning that it is Krishna's soul who is playing the role of Sangamyugi Krishna through the body of Veerendra Dev Dixit.)

This is what i meant when i said that there are many lacunas in Advanced Knowledge and ambiguity between what is said in cds and what is understood by PBKs and what is written in literature.

If 'alaf bap' and 'Bharat' are one and the same soul then the creator (rachieta) and creation(rachna) become one and the same thing (how is this possible??)

ok---shivsena.
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andrey

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Post01 Oct 2006

Baba (Veerendra Dev Dixit) has used the term nirakar BapDada. I think it means BapDada in the body of Baba (Veerendra Dev Dixit). I mean Shrimat comes from one. Does it come from Dada Lekraj, or Veerendra Dev Dixit? If Dada Lekraj were Sangam Yugi Krishna he should become the Sangam Yugi Narayan.

Bharat is eternal. He cannot be creation. Lekhraj Kirpalani, the soul of Krishna, is the one who has to transform so that everything is transformed. Will we be the one to wait for his transformation or the one to cause his transformation?

Whatever we remember is what we become Shiva– Ram – Krishna.

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