Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

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Rita

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post03 Oct 2018

My elder Brother is not much concerned. He is out of India so he does not bother what is happening to his parents. I visit them often and in our house there are pictures of these crooked people and point of light stickers and lights everywhere. I somehow feel something is really going wrong with them.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post03 Oct 2018

Is he not concerned that the BKs will be looking to take as much of the family's property and wealth that they can?

Have you/they made plans for when she becomes older and your Father's illness is going to become worse?

I could see how the family having left, the BKs could have moved in to take their place, like a cuckoo into another bird's nest.

Having nothing to do, BKism gives her her "respect" (... for their money and potential donation), something to do, a small indiscriminate, uncritical community to sit within, a feel of being special. A "family" ... her "true" family, as the BKs market themselves.

If they have money, the BKs will come calling with toli (prasad), rakhi, small gifts and sit with her. They will not be demanded of the disciplines normal BKs are, like attending morning class and meditation. They will often be 'spoonfed' a sweetended form of the BK philosophy over the phone. And there is only one of you but many of them, and they don't work and have a family, so it is easier for them to spread the burden of attention among the various Sisters.

It helps to be able to separate them from the BK influence however you can, eg move them geographically away, cut the telephone access, take them away travelling to distract them and break the habit. Come in as a family and speak to the BKs about what they are doing and ask them to keep away and give the family space and time (they are used to such encounters and have many well practised responses. They will tell you they are doing nothing and it is all the mother's choice) ... but becareful if you do that.

We could discuss what you could say and how.

My concern is that the potential for exploitation is so blatantly clear it is unethical ... but it is what they have been doing among the Sindhi community for 80 years or more.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post04 Oct 2018

I’d like to add that the BKs are not demons or devils. Even if they see non-BKs as such we should not do the same.

The reason they get a hold on people is that they are human beings, they do actually have a good side to them, they can be caring and empathetic to others. Certain individuals are really nice people ( I know I was, even when i was a BK! haha).

They will show concern and offer what they think will help from the BK paradigm, including as ex-l says, sweet words of encouragement, a community of peers (older Sindhi women are at the top of the BKO so that may make your mum feel she’s found a home-grown satsang she can relate to and possibly gain a wider regard than her social standing as a mother, wife and carer gives her). The BKs also provide an alternative space away from the duties and worries of the household where a person can sit quietly and get some mental quiet time.

The problem with BKs is that they are solipsistic, they are the centre of the universe, they can do no wrong. They do not see how they affect people, they only evaluate them by how BK they are, or becoming. Even the most intelligent of them has a cognitive dissonance that compartmentalises, allowing contradictory ways of thinking to coexist. As far as they are concerned, any ill effect on a BK student’s family or work is acceptable ”collateral cost” . That is all out of sight and out of mind to the BKs.

The more a non- member fights the BKs, especially over a family member, the more it proves to them that "body-conscious” people just cannot understand the divine mission of the BKs, and the sooner the aspiring BK can be ”detached" from their family, the better.

My suggestion is only part way to ex-l’s one of holding them even more strictly to their own standards. Given that you said your mum is not yet following fully and strictly all practices, that risks making her more BK!. Her "not yet fully pukka” status gives you hope.

My two-step suggestion -Make personal contact with the local centre in charge (center-in-charge) , make a face-to-face connection, let them get to know you as a real and a decent person, not someone who only exists in the abstract as ”the obstacle’ or ‘troublemaker”. The first meeting should just be ”I want to meet you and get to know who you are and what you are about” and you can get the measure of the personality/ies you are dealing with. Some BKs are nasty, narrow minded and ambitious while others are quite decent, more normal and respectful people. Hopefully this person will of the second type

Go away, then later arrange a follow up meeting, saying there’s something you’d like to discuss. Then discuss with the center-in-charge how people, when newly converted to a new belief, are often over-zealous, their behaviour affects others and that your mum’s changed behaviour has had extremely bad effect on the family. Tell her (it’s usually a her) that you would appreciate it if your mother was encouraged to attend to her home and family more, that she has emotionally isolated herself from those who love her and brought a sense of alienation and sadness into the family home where once there was unity and joy.

If the center-in-charge is the right kind of person, she could actually help in this. There has been a bit of a change in soem parts of the BK world to ”accomodate” the needs of the families of BKs more because they do not want bad PR. If the cici is not amenable, at least you will know who and what you are up against. And getting the word out to the local community is the way to go next, how they don't care about families only themselves etc . BKs hate bad PR.

NB do not get into debate on the BK ”Gyan” or beliefs. They do not respond to logic. Don't be seduced by a charmer either. Keep all contact based on your agenda and purpose, don't be distracted.
Best of luck.
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Rita

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post04 Oct 2018

Thank you ex-l and pink panther. I think this might help, because I tried reasoning with facts and knowledge all was in vain.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post04 Oct 2018

You’re welcome.

I’ll just add one more thing I have thought about since reading and replying earlier.

When I said
"The BKs also provide an alternative space away from the duties and worries of the household where a person can sit quietly and get some mental quiet time

it may be helpful if your mum found that personal time in another way, 'substitution therapy' you might say.

After years of being a wife and mother, she’s now caring for an ailing husband. She would be very aware of impending mortality and of how much of her life is and was being lived for others. She probably feels both a strong urge to do something for herself and, maybe less consciously, give herself some ‘religious’ framework by which she can cope with what life is now presenting.

What the BKs meditation provides is an experience, and in the group, a shared experience through which a sense of belonging develops. Life can become dry and routine, and, believe me, the BK life becomes quite dry after a while too, so BKs end up spending a lot of time gossiping to find something juicy again!

Joy can be found in many ways, but we often just do what's routine or easy. There must be some activity she used to enjoy or always wanted to do, or a group she used to be part of or might enjoy being part of? Any old friends, activities that bring joy - dance, arts, music, children, animals, crafts, travel, literature ... maybe something you aren't even aware of?

i.e. if you start from a position of trying to understand what is the need for her that the BKs fulfil, with awareness of your mum’s personality, interests, desires and history, you might work out what else could do that for her. It may be an opportunity for you to take your relationship with her to another level too, a person to person relationship, rather than mother-daughter? It may not break the nexus with BKs completely but she won't see them as the sole provider of what she is wanting for.

Both my parents are now deceased. Love was always there but it was often overshadowed by things we did not see eye to eye on. We did resolve quite a lot and developed more respect for each other before they died. The main thing is, I believe, to find this foundation and harmonisation that underpins everything else between you and allows more openness and good humour to moderate any difficulties and differences between the individuals you are.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post04 Oct 2018

Rita wrote:I tried reasoning with facts and knowledge all was in vain.

That is correct, you will fail by appealing to logic and reason. Brahma Kumarism is the entirely contrary to logic and reason and is, largely in my opinion, a malicious word play where eg "Transformation" means Destruction, where "Knowledge" means ignorance, delusion and blind faith.

It is based on taking already existing religious terms and concepts and giving them a new twist that only the BKs know but outsiders don't ... hence to deceive the outsiders ... and is the most conceited religion in the world.

By "the most conceited religion in the world" I mean where its leaders believe and teach that *they* are the source and inspiration of all other religions, even religions that existed 3,000 years ago when they claim their were no religions 3,000 years ago; that all other religions are merely partial, faulted, corrupt memories of BKism basically worthless.

It is not a Hinduism where all other religions are respected as different ways to god. BKism is adamant; all other religions are the "Path of Ignorance" to final destruction, whereas only they are on the Path of Knowledge" to liberation and liberation in life (moksha and jeevan mukhti). That no other religious teacher has received liberation or enlightenment ... except through them.

Therefore arguing on other religious grounds is also a waste of time, as "all other religions are completely degraded" according to their god spirit.

However ...

What you might have some effect is by using BK reasoning and BK facts and BK knowledge. Playing their game back into them. To do that, you'll have to learn a little bit about it and understand its use of terms you might already know, eg the BKs Shiva is not the same as the Hindu Shiva.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post04 Oct 2018

Lastly, there was a book written by the Hyderabad Bhaibund Panchayat, Sind in the 1940s about the troubles Lekhraj Kirpalani caused the Sindi community at that time, identical troubles to this day.

There is a copy of the text here: OM MANDLI: A true authenticated story about its activities being a reply to "Is This Justice?" (1940). One of the old non-BK SIndi Mukhis was still alive to speak to a few years ago, I don't know if he is still.

I am trying to find out if we have a photocopy of it because like a BK will not believe a copy of it unless they see it without their own eyes.

But it would be worth you reading in the first place and sharing with your non-BK family.

Are you going to be expect to look after your mother and Father as they become older and infirm?
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Rita

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post05 Oct 2018

@pink panther.

Rightly said, I often observed that she often feels left out. All her family, friends are well settled but she was not working, she is well educated though. She often boast that how lucky she is that she gets time to engage in spiritual activities (basically to hide the fact that she has not done anything substantial with her life). Now she is in that stage that she would not listen to anybody.

All her friends are BKs (lady police constable etc). She has been going there from 15 years. Initially I ignored, being busy with my education and now with work. Now when I read about BK and her behavior towards me and relatives, I feel that something is wrong with her.

She used to have good friends. I will have to visit her and find out why she feels left out.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post05 Oct 2018

Rita wrote:She often boast that how lucky she is that she gets time to engage in spiritual activities (basically to hide the fact that she has not done anything substantial with her life).

Sadly a very typical BK target type.

The biggest challenge to her will be getting to the point where she can admit to herself that the so called "spiritual activities" the BKs engage in - mostly sitting doing nothing or PR for the cult - are equally insubstantial and of no real value either. That it is all a waste of time.

Only the BKs think they are a good as they think they are.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post06 Oct 2018

Rita,

I did not understand from your earlier posts that your mum has been involved with BKs for 15 years!!

Much of what I suggested was based on thinking it was relatively new. I don't think what I said previously will make much difference at this stage. As you are a grown adult now with your own life, as is your mother, it seems the pain and frustration you feel at this time is you articulating the emotions that hadn't quite found shape when you were younger and less aware of what was going on. It's always hard to talk dispassionately with family about sensitive issues.

The basic thing to do at this stage is what ex-l suggested, making sure the family estate is not forfeited to the BKs through your mother’s devotion being manipulated. This is nuts and bolts practicality that can affect on future generations, and maybe a lawyer needs to be employed to make it legally watertight - and maybe to act as dispassionate spokesperson for you.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post06 Oct 2018

I don't know if it applies in this case, but I'd like to step out a little futher and say there's an element of BKism through which women in particular express their resentment, unhappiness or anger towards the world. Or, like you say Rita, their frustration at not having being able to fulfil themself in a different, more real way.

I have not thought this through entirely, but I am thinking that's what you meet if you scratch the surface of the BK facade.

In a way if, say, a woman has been a daughter, then a wife, then a mother - all sort of against their will - and were not able to express themselves, taking up BKs is and gives them something of their own, some status, and puts them in a dominant role.

Please accept this just a something to question rather than something I've thought through. One psychologist did analyse Lekhraj Kirpalani's fixation with Destruction (End of the World, megadeath of humanity) as a sub-conscious anger or hatred at a world that rejected them ... perhaps an extension of his childhood psychology and experiences.

In any BK there is BKism and then there is personal and family psychology. Sometimes people use BKism as a sort of stick to beat or shield to protect them from family members. Not all the problems that arise are related to BKism itself. Sometimes BKism get dragged into family politics. You've got to try and be able to see both and work out the difference and keep pulling your mum back into herself, the good bits, and not let her be the BK personality.

How pukka a BK is she in terms of following the disciplines?

Largely, their "Baba" says things like they have to fulfil their karma with their family, be a perfect "Om Shanti" Angelic example, and "gain a pass mark" from everyone ... using their believe in BK Shrimat against them may not cure them but might curb them.
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Rita

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post10 Oct 2018

She is 100% in following rituals. She gets up early morning 4 oclock and goes to the center everyday. She never watches anything on Tv except Peace of mind. Always thinks she is superior. Always comments on other's belief. Brags about her sacrifices for God and how pure she is. Center Didi calls her every now and then to check if she is following rituals perfectly (when she is out of station). Won't even touch food prepared by any of us. Always meditating. And there are pictures of BK stickers all over my house.
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Pink Panther

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post10 Oct 2018

I would insist on no stickers, BK paraphernalia or BK talk in the family home.
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ex-l

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post10 Oct 2018

Yes, I would agree with that.

What she believes she is doing is "planting seeds" in your mind and that the images will have an effect on your, and convert you into becoming a BK which, like any advertising campaign, works to a certain degree.

You probably know enough about BKism to know you don't want to be one by now.

Does she carry out any motherly duties for you? Does she at all act in a motherly manner ... or is it all just manipulation to try and pull you into BKism, and BK answers?

I don't know how long of her 15 years she has been a "pukka" BK but, on one hand, that is a long time to be a BK; but, on the other hand, it only means she "came into Gyan" in 2003 - after the failed pressumption that Year 2000 would be the End of the World.

It really means she is fairly ignorant of BK history, its failures (failed predictions of the End of the World), its historical revision etc. All she has seen is the more recent polished version.

She will likely be looking at your Father as her "karmic account" to be paid off and looking forward until he dies and she is free to be a 100% BK.

It's funny though, one of the core aims of BKism is to be "egoless" ... it was the part of the famous last words their guru Lekhraj Kirpalani said ... and yet you say BKism is strengthening her sense of self importance? He ego by BK terms?

Please allow me to revise your wishes. What would you like to do or achieve?

To get your mother out? Do you feel you have lost your mother?

Thanks
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Rita

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Re: Will the Brahma Kumari cult end by 2036?

Post10 Oct 2018

I think I have completely lost her. Nothing cant be done. Whenever she talks about the predictions of the world ending, I constantly remind her about past failed predictions. I do not know why she is ignorant, may be some other brainwashing tactics used by these BKs.

I do not talk about BK and BK teachings at all. I even do not visit them often. They live in Ahmadabad. She even lied and try to convince my Brother that I have faith in BK and asked my Brother to join. I came to know from his wife (Brother's wife). I removed all the BK logo from my house and she got these again. They even have a BK flag on the terrace. They surely use some good psychological tactics to brainwash.

I have even tried convincing other BK followers and failed. They surely have good manipulation techniques. I do not care about my mother now, I just want these BKs in jail.
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