What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to followers?

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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Hi Rita,

It seems you did not have a real meditation experience which accomplishes primarily these two things:
    1) Meditation allows us time each day to turn our attention away from the problems of the outer world to swim for a while in an ocean of peace
    2) Meditation allows us to replenish the diminishing qualities such as peace, love, joy in us.
One can view a dance either as mere movement of body parts and feel monotonous about it, or enjoy it as an expression of beauty within with all its qualities which inspire the same in the viewer too. It is like Tagore put it to Einstein:
“The progress of our soul is like a perfect poem. It has an infinite idea, which, once realised, makes all movements full of meaning and joy. But if we detach its movements from that ultimate idea, if we do not see the infinite rest and only see infinite motion, then existence appears to us as a monstrous evil, impetuously rushing towards an unending aimlessness.”

You may not like what I wrote. No issue. You can like it later
“Always the wrong person gives you the right lesson in life.” (William Shakespeare)
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

At least, I don’t fear the Apocalypse, Doomsday and Judgement Day.

Your actions are out of fear. You are in constant fear of your God because he will punish you. Even your meditation is out of fear. In groups you only discuss about global warming, rapes and how world is going mad. And you say that we do mediation. I am sorry but you have got meditation meaning wrong.

You are in constant fear and when you do meditation it’s of no use. Your organisation is in constant fear that if common people come to know the real reason of brainwashing, they manipulate people. If you are so much in peace why are you hiding things?

Why did BKs change their name and rebrand from Om Mandali to BK? And Raja Yoga is not from BK, it is from Patanjali. And Tagore was not part of BK, neither was Einstein, so stop quoting them. Say which is your own philosophy.

Your organisation has got everything from every religion so that target market can be unlimited. From Hindus, they will say Muslims and Christians worship shivlinga. And from Muslims they say God is invisible, Hindus are stupid because they worship idols. To Christians, they use cross symbols and divine light etc, they are fit for everybody.

And all the sickos who are part of this, will think "we are superior".
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Yes, vlakshmi, let me join in the chorus. Why are you here?

---

Rita,

One tendency I remember within BKism, and I think we are seeing here, is the re-writing of one's past ... 'a past', not the full and rational story, not anything too personal ... as a kind of heroes' journey leading up to the "victory" of becoming a BK, "finding god" and joining the "highest souls". It is a habit reinforced with references in the Murli and by being ask to tell one's story in a way that is acceptable, or "serviceable" in public events.

The other elements I see is
    a) the brazen contradictory conceits, eg we've had BKs being the broadminded ones to BKs being the open-minded ones.

    b) The use of meaningless, flowery language, eg "He knows how to look for essence behind the details".
Everything has to be translated from half-truth and word manipulation into plain English, eg "the details" probably means the anomalies, the incoherent thinking, the implausible claims, the lack of evidence, the existance of counter-evidence; "the essence" could just mean their Baba, or 'the soul and their Baba' ... "Don't think, don't question, don't look at the stuff you cannot accept or does not add up, just remember you are a soul and the Baba". That is the essence of BKism. Or three dots, "soul, their god, and the whole of time and space summarised by one word, 'Drama'".

Their wilful and persistent misuse and manipulation of language disgusts me. Likewise, their dishonesty towards non-BKs.

What they mean by "open-minded" is gullible and credulous ... there are few religion more closed-minded than BKism. It is an appeal to the egos of the gullible and credulous; those seeking an escape from the difficulties of real world and the hard work of really understanding life.

You cannot "understand" BKism, you can only accept it. As others have written here, you accept it without questioning because it fulfils some other emotional or egotistical need ... of which there are a few.

The BK Knowledge™ is not knowledge, it is just a very short and simple series of morphing mental plugs to stop you thinking about anything outside of their box, in order to focus you on the experience of their "Yoga". That is all it is.

To which they keep adding to or change to suit time, place and culture, inventing new mental tricks and sharing them with each other.

A_dinosaur_that_does_not_exist_according_to_BKs.jpg
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:Meditation allows us to replenish the diminishing qualities such as peace, love, joy in us.

Shame it does not work to increase clarity, integrity, sincerity, straightforwardness, respectfulness, intelligence and so on.

The BKs always choose the soft, undefined, wooshy, gloopy, expansive "qualities" as part of their seduction material and avoid ones that would require hard work and admitting errors.

So why are you here?
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Rita

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

Rightly said ex-l.

The similar kind of behaviour I see in my mother, she always repeats that how lucky she was in childhood because all her siblings were busy in studies but because she was lucky she did not go for higher studies, instead she was busy searching for truth.

But I have experienced that she is hiding her insecurities, and whenever we discuss something, she comes to the same point about what is happening in the world and it’s going to end soon, as if she is watching news all the time. She is so cornered in her life, that she does not have anything to discuss. And you will never notice me discussing my past problems which I faced due to BK.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post13 May 2019

There is a proper psychological term for it, I forgot what it is.

At the far end you have false memory syndrome which is common in hypnosis, and it becomes even worse once you get involved with psychics. I explored all of that and although I can see a therapeutic benefit to it, ie metaphors for my life or encouragements based on fantasies, what I end up with was numerous, entirely contradictory stories that could not have existed.

Very, very few person actually go and double check what they are told.

Another extreme case, in the US there was a big controversy about hypnotherapists encouraging clients to believe they had been abused as children when they are not ... so it is a highly unreliable area.

In BKism, you are often encouraged to "give your experience", to sit on the guddhi and tell the story of how you came to the BKs. You are encourage to believe you are special/strong etc to turn it into a useful "serviceable" version that encourages belief in BKism, and to encourage others.

Of course people cannot tell the real truth ... misfortunate, inadequacy, escapism becomes miraculous paths to salvation. I think it is quite common in many religions.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

Admin wrote:
Admin note: Please answer the question asked of you or have your account limited.

Hi ex-l,

It seems you don’t like those who “look for essence behind the details" and describe the “open-minded" as “gullible and credulous” ... so on.

This is because you have not experienced the benefits of looking for essence behind the details and have not tried what open-mindedness is.

I have tried them everywhere, NOT ONLY TOWARD BKISM.

1) When I read Bible I saw Jesus teaching “let the one who wants to become greatest among you become as a slave.” I looked into the essence (not details) and took the lessons for me as follows: “Jesus did not become a slave to anyone, but he served the society because of the fact that everyone thrives on the service of society, hence has to be a slave to the cause of society’s welfare. Joy in the service of the society means joy in life.”

Another verse was “all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” I looked at the essence and understood ‘all those who think that they can succeed with violence will perish by violence’—something history testifies to in abundance. I practice non-violence in thinking, speaking and acting. I also know that anything can be used as a weapon. Hence I ensure that my choice of words/sentence should not hurt others.

2)When I read Mahabharath Epic, I looked for essence behind the character named Dhrutharashtra. He experimented his life with all forms of unrighteousness which ultimately made him realize folly of materialistic lifestyle. Then he turned into meditation and spent rest of his life in meditation in forest. Essence behind the details is simple—materialism will finally make you turn towards meditation. If so, why wait till the end of your life. I thought: the earlier the better.

When I read about Duryodhan, the chief villain of the Epic, I looked for the essence. He was the incarnation of Kali, hence was getting angry with everyone except with Karna. It means even a wicked man can act righteously, if he wants to.

3) In the school days when the teacher told us the story about two wolves within us [you have two wolves within you—one is positive and other is negative. Both are equally powerful, who will win? “The one whom you feed will win.”], I looked for its essence and knew I have with me the key to heaven and hell:
If I feed my mind with the positive, I will make life a heaven for me and for others.
If I feed my mind with the negative, I will make life a hell for me and for others.
If what is happening in the world is not the way I want it, at least what is happening within me can be the way I want it.

4) Looking for essence applies in the case of words too. When I looked at the meaning of the word RELIGION. Root of the word is either from “relegere” [to ponder, wonder] or “religare” to [to reconnect]. Hence the word RELIGION is filled with unlimited history because it implies that the history of mankind starts in wonderment towards God which is later followed by a fall into sensual pleasures which brings all sorts of miseries, and the need arises again for people to reconnect with God.

A word may lose its original meaning later as happened in the case of the word SUPERSTITION which originally meant ‘to live longer than parents’, as testified by Cicero: “Persons who spent whole days in prayer and sacrifice to ensure that their children should OUT-LIVE them were termed "superstitious" (from supersies, a survivor), and the word later acquired a wider application. Those on the other hand who carefully reviewed and so to speak retraced all the lore of ritual were called "religious" from relegere (to retrace or re-read), like "elegant" from eligere (to select), "diligent" from diligere (to care for), "intelligent" from intellegere (to understand); for all these words contain the same sense of "picking out" (legere) that is present in "religious." Hence "superstitious" and "religious" came to be terms of censure and approval respectively.” (De Natura Deorum, Cicero, 45 B.C.E.)
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Pink Panther

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

Vlakshmi

You do not know how to read, or comprehend what you read, it seems.

I am guessing you don’t even read the replies with any respect or care, I think you just skim the post then give knee-jerk reflexive responses to "trigger words" without considering the context they were written in.
vlakshmi wrote:Your several questions put together was “Does God say ‘history repeats identically, and do I agree with it’?”

No, it was not. That was the prologue to the questions. The questions are thus: and you can answer them number by number
You believe BK Gyan is from God, yes? (rhetorical yes, we know thats what you believe)
God says everything repeats exactly every 5000 years, yes? (rhetorical yes, as ex-Bks we know thats what ”god” says)
By definition, by BK Murlis, God is Omniscient and speaks total truth, yes? (rhetorical yes, as above)

So, ex-l asked, if this Godly revelation is true, feasible then:
Q1. How does US flag on the moon or the voyager probes get back to the same start point to be repeated?
Q2. How do the materials in them, steel back to iron ore, plastics back to vegetation to become hydrocarbons, cloth in the flag back to the soil to grow again, how do they return to their point of origin?
Q3. How do the photons travelling through space from distant stars find themselves back inside their original stars and wait there until they are released next cycle

We don't want to know that you believe it or why you believe it, we want you to explain how it can be, given certain facts. So please complete the following:
    A1. The US flag on the moon gets back to earth by ...

    A2. The materials in the Voyager probe get back to be mined or manufactured again in the next identically repeating cycle by ...

    A3. The photons travelling through space from distant stars will make their way back to be inside their original stars by ...
- or you can say, ”I don't know”.
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

Hi Pink Panther,

These three questions
    [Q1. How does US flag on the moon or the voyager probes get back to the same start point to be repeated?
    Q2. How do the materials in them, steel back to iron ore, plastics back to vegetation to become hydrocarbons, cloth in the flag back to the soil to grow again, how do they return to their point of origin?
    Q3. How do the photons travelling through space from distant stars find themselves back inside their original stars and wait there until they are released next cycle]
are like defendant hurling the questions onto the Apex Court Judge such as these:
    1) How can you pronounce capital punishment on me for this rarest of rare crime I committed?
    2) How can you write with pen and ink—what is the chemistry of ink that becomes pronouncement? …and so on.
Such questions have no relevance because the defendant has already been closely examined, and found worthy of receiving capital punishment ... .and so on.

Similarly, this world started in perfect ecosystem with many species. Now we know what that ecosystem has been converted into. We also know how many species are going extinct on daily basis. “scientists estimate that we are now losing species at 1,000 to 10,000 times the normal rate, with multiple extinctions daily.”

Now, Inhabitants on earth are like defendants receiving judgment from the Supreme Judge.

Better you leave your ego, and enjoy your life in Golden Age which is to come soon.
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

vlakshmi wrote:Better you leave your ego, and enjoy your life in Golden Age which is to come soon.

And you don't have an ego? That's not a question that needs answered, just an ironic aside.

OK, you would not answer those questions, not even to say "I don't know" (and your similes don't make sense at all), so let's try the other one again ...
    Why are you here?
I presume you read the terms and conditions on the way in.

Last chance.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

idiot (n.)
early 14c., "person so mentally deficient as to be incapable of ordinary reasoning;" from Greek literally "private person" from idios "one's own”, living in one's own disconnected reality
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ex-l

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019

Pink Panther wrote:from idios "one's own”, living in one's own disconnected reality

OK, let's not create more distraction with what could be interpreted as insults ... however, I do take from that points that using words detached from their context or depending merely on their etymology is a risky practise.

The question is,
"why is vlakshmi here?"

and I ask that honestly and sincerely (again).

If vlakshmi is here to test out the nature and method of their reasoning, then fine. We can start from that position.

Are they "incapable of ordinary reasoning" or just winding non-BKs up? I have no idea. They might even argue that they have no desire to reason ordinarily and are demonstrating BK-reasoning. They may just be here to astroturf the forum with BKisms, or just to wind up us.

I don't know until they say. Out of respect, I'd like to know.

From the blanked out post, I take the example,
Root of the word [RELIGION] is either from “relegere” [to ponder, wonder] or “religare” to [to reconnect]. Hence the word RELIGION is filled with unlimited history because it implies that the history of mankind starts in wonderment towards God which is later followed by a fall into sensual pleasures which brings all sorts of miseries, and the need arises again for people to reconnect with God.

Now, that reasoning fails at the first hurdle because 'religare', from re- +‎ ligō, does not mean "to reconnect" and relegere”, from re- +‎ legō, does not mean to ponder, wonder.

It's a case of taking the result one wants to find - to reinforce BKism - and modifying and manipulation the source, the past, to suit it ... typical of the BKs' back to front, BK centric view of history.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post14 May 2019


Sorry for coming in between abruptly. I was passive on this forum off and on. Topic of this thread is interesting to me and important/crucial. I will go through this thread and revert.

In the meantime, I want to ask VLaxmi a quick question, if you are leveraging the findings of scientists on declining species, have you cross verified if the same scientists also agree on earth's evolution? ... That it is approximately so many millions old which, anyways, you conveniently don't believe and stick to 5000 year cycle.

I often read other people who have immensely contributed to this forum keep mentioning that BKs cherry pick things which are only convenient to their arguments. They speak about high level science this that and when questioned, they simply say forget the noise and remember Baba.

Anyways, please express your thoughts on my query. Thanks!
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vlakshmi

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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post15 May 2019

Hi rajdhani,

Everything a joker says may not be a joke.
Everything scientists say may not be scientific.
When something is obviously scientific I readily accept.
When something is theory, I wait.
When they speculate on subjects such as origin of life, universe etc I enjoy reading the views of those scientists who disagree, and wait.
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Re: What are the Brahma Kumaris trying to communicate to fol

Post15 May 2019

Rajdhani wrote:I want to ask VLaxmi a quick question, if you are leveraging the findings of scientists on declining species, have you cross verified if the same scientists also agree on earth's evolution? ... I often read other people who have immensely contributed to this forum keep mentioning that BKs cherry pick things which are only convenient to their arguments.

Very Good question. You have picked up and named specific example of such contradictions in vlakshmi’s ”presentations”.

Let’s see if we can get one direct answer to a direct question.
ex-l wrote:OK, let's not create more distraction with what could be interpreted as insults ... however, I do take from that points that using words detached from their context or depending merely on their etymology is a risky practise.

I quoted the word’s origins and definitions because I catch myself being an idiot at least once a day! I find it useful to remind myself of my limitations. That no matter what I think, when ”I" think , ego operates, hence the potential to idiocy increases.
'religare', from re- +‎ ligō, does not mean "to reconnect" and relegere”, from re- +‎ legō, does not mean to ponder, wonder.

Religion : - religo - I bind (I fasten, I tie together) . Our word ligament uses same root as ligo - for the soft tissue that binds muscles to bones.

In this case, the ”re-” is not about repeating or again-ing. It probably comes from ”Rex” as in king, ruler, the same "re-" we have in ”regulation”, ie control in reference to authority. Hence a ”ruler” is the authority and ”rule” is the standard set by the authority, be it either a king or a straight length of wood (whose calibrations were authorised by royal decree as official weights and measures were) !

relegere”, from ‎ lego - means primarily to gather, recover, travel over (physically) - (this time re- does mean) again.

The secondary meaning is metaphorical, to revise (review), recount ( but mental abstract things, eg stories, study or learning).

Vlakshmi’s misconception, that it means ”to ponder, wonder’, is an extra stretch, it’s neither the primary, original meaning nor the already stretched second metaphorical meaning, but a step further.

FYI
Ponder means to ”weigh” - same root as ”pound” - a measure of weight. Then metaphorically becomes about evaluating non-tangible things . And to finish off ...

Wonder most closely relates to the idea of ”miracle” - lit. 'to see something amazing, almost unbelievable'. The phonetic shift of ”wonder” probably comes through the German from the greek "thavma , which means the same as 'miracle'.

On a more personal note:

When I was drawn to the BKs and while one, I meditated on the form of God and the very idea of God as the common link to all fields of knowledge, the axis of the different sectors. I was interested in the deeper profound precision and importance of origins, fundamental meaning (hence my interest in etymology - and wariness of the "etymological fallacy” as exemplified by vlakshmi’s selective interpretations). Some of the Gyan seemed to point (pardon the pun) there.

The more I observed that the BK point of reference was not actually the common axial link that gives balance and smoothness, that it was not even close to being the centre of ”truth" but relied on heavy bias, mental counter-balancing needing lots of energy and which create stresses and friction to deal with certain undeniable knowledge and facts outside its orbit, I knew had tangled myself into ”binds" that were not liberating at all. Either you entangle yourself more, or you untangle yourself to get free.

One last bit of etymology realting to this imagery. The Buddhist use of the words Dukkha and Sukkha;
    Dukkha is mostly translated as suffering or distress or unsatisfactoriness
    Sukkha is its opposite, good, pleasant, happiness inducing
It is a decent speculation that the origin of both is onomatopaeic, ( the name says it) i.e. words based on or imitating the sound of the thing it names.

The Aryan Vedic culture was victorious largely due to its mastery of the wheel, horses and the Chariot as instrument of war. To invent the idea of a wheel is one thing (no need to reinvent that!) but to actually make a good wheel, that is a really valuable skill. The dharma wheel on the flag of India is a Chariot wheel.

The most fundamental part of the wheel is the axle. A skilfully made axle is centred and smooth, the sound it makes as its turning is ”sssssuuuuu” (even our English word ”smooth” has that quality) , while a badly made axle goes ”dukh, dukh, dukh” ... so...

How far does your world view, beliefs and attitudes let you travel smoothly, in harmony with life and all the facts, events, sciences and objective truths it presents, and how many times is it off centre, rough, jarring, needing repair, reinforcement, apologetics, equivocations, doublethink ?

And before I finished I see vlakshmi’s last post above,
When something is obviously scientific I readily accept. When something is theory, I wait.

It seems that what you accept as ‘scientific' excludes the scientific definition of theory, and how you define things as theory or ’science’ - are quite different to science's.
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