Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:Old timers and teachers used to say Shiv Baba wanted to impact the society in a big way and there was a reason to dawn on the person (Brahma Baba) most elite community because this is a disruptive approach and the likes.

Except the Bhaibund wasn't "the most elite community", unless you class making money from other peoples's labour and creativity as "elite".

They were a merchant caste. Lekhraj Kirpalani was a shop keeper. How is that "elite" in Indian society, or any society?

They were also known to be tricky and crooked, and this was reflected in the legal papers against them (some are in the Library section). Lekhraj Kirpalani's partner described him as "not a moral man".

People need to research the roots.

Please don't get me wrong, there were high mind, elite Sindhis. I am not being anti-Sindhi. I am writing specifically about Lekhraj Kirpalani and his immediate circle. They love him because he was able to make so much money, spent it ostentatiously, and then threw it all away keeping them in luxury until it ran out.

They then learnt to look for other rich "sugar daddies" to support them. It's so obvious what is going on, once you start looking at the economics and history of it all.

There's no miracle. Religion is a wonderful business to exploit poor, vulnerable, superstitious people etc.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:They were a merchant caste. Lekhraj Kirpalani was a shop keeper. How is that "elite" in Indian society, or any society?

If I can recall, they used to always say in BK Center that Brahma Baba was a diamond merchant (I don't remember this was said in Murli, but as part of history, I have heard it several times. Can you please throw more light on this? Thanks!
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post24 Jan 2019

Give me a day or two.

We have a picture of his shop.

I would say he ran a jewellery shop, fair enough. I am not sure about "a diamond merchant", there's no evidence of that (as in traded large amounts of jewels). I also don't think the gem stone trade is a very spiritual or ethical one ... what, after all, is it pandering too? The vanity and narcissism of the rich, providing materialistic shows of status ... all on top of the exploitation of the miners that dig them out of the ground in appalling circumstances; death, disease, slavery and so on.
    Why would you boast about making lots of money off the backs of slavery and explotation?

    Did you ever hear of Lekhraj Kirpalani or the BKs speaking out about "Blood Diamonds" or "Genocide gems"? (Working out of Calcutta, he must have traded in Burmese rubies and other stones ... read up about their production).

    Did you ever hear about Lekhraj Kirpalani fighting for the rights of workers?

    Or do they just boast about how much profit he made from selling stuff no one actually needs, and does not perform any beneficial purpose?
Same as usual ... it's not needs, or rights, or ethics etc ... it's money, and glitter, and power where their real interests and values lie. How much money have you got? The more you have, the more important you are.

The BKs always have to exaggerate. The shop was quite small and not even on the ground floor of an old Victorian building. The building still exists. It's a tailor shop now and looks like a dump. The details are on the forum.

I find it a bit sad, and frustrating. They cannot just representing the facts, they don't even have any interest in finding them out (it was ex-BKs, PBKs that did the research to find the place), and find out the truth ... but, again, that's their nature.

Remember, all of the Seniors were little girls when they joined, so what did they know about the real world? They did not see it again until the late 1950s.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post25 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:We have a picture of his shop.

I would say he ran a jewellery shop, fair enough. I am not sure about "a diamond merchant", there's no evidence of that (as in traded large amounts of jewels).


Thanks!....in a way it is good the topic came up, this can be a good reference for some lost, poor soul.

I've often heard the teachers saying Brahma Baba used to visit Kings and the Royal families and the rich customers to sell the Diamonds and Jewels and he used deck his daughter or niece with all the ornaments to display as a model. May be this is part of the exaggeration too.

They will quickly brush off the Blood Diamonds as Drama and Karmic accounts. As far as the proportion of respect based on the proportion of wealth a follower has, I have observed it many a times. In today's connected world with the social media, own TV channel, army of surrendered and lakhs of followers, it is not that difficult to reach out to people and announce the God's arrival. They can tell everybody once and withdraw and concentrate and meditate for their new world. Instead, they are mostly beating round the bush using front-ends like BK Shivani.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post25 Jan 2019

A "king" (Rajput/Maharajas) at that time might be equivalent to a rich hotelier in todays terms. It is what many and their palaces became after the British left! Yes, it's true Lekhraj Kirpalani was infatuated with royalty (and saw democracy as an impure form of politics, he was openly insulting about Gandhi, Congress and against Indian Independence, he called them traitors (to the British rulers), crow race, monkeys etc.

But what is so great about chasing after money by selling too rich people, with wealth they did not earn, stuff without any real purpose?

I suppose that's what they are sitll doing.

They also said Lekhraj Kirpalani sent a "gold book" to the Queen/Princess of England. I found a copy of it in the British Library India Office section ... it was a small (A5 approx) gold coloured cardboard book full of praise for God Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani), warnings that WWII was the Mahabharata War and End of the World, and boasts about themselves.

Again, a copy is in our Library section. It's important to see how demented they were and how dishonest they became to cover it up. There is no one single mention about "God Shiva" in it.

They also used to say that Mama, Om Radhe, would be reborn in the Nepalese royal family as it was the last "pure" royal family in Bharat ... until they all shot each other to and the country became a democratic republic. That story disappeared too.

Ask yourself the questions, "How deluded, egotistical and narcissistic to you have to be, to believe *YOU* are God for 24 years (1932 to about 1956)?

Then, "How deluded and stupid to you have to be, to believe that person is God for 24 years?"

Then, "How dishonest and unethical to cover it all up with lies and inventions?"

That defines the Brahma Kumari leaders and followers. And they are still doing it. They still won't admit it publicly and officially.

How can you be so deeply dishonest and "spiritual"?
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post28 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:Ask yourself the questions, "How deluded, egotistical and narcissistic to you have to be, to believe *YOU* are God for 24 years (1932 to about 1956)?

Please pardon my ignorance, was it in 1956 onward they started to introduce Incorporeal Shiva?
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post28 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote: full of praise for God Brahma (Lekhraj Kirpalani), warnings that WWII was the Mahabharata War and End of the World, and boasts about themselves.

They used to keep telling (probably even now) that Brahma Baba wrote letters to Gandhiji and other world leaders. But they never said he had written to them that the WW2 was the final one. This aspect was censored. Again, the 1976 fiasco is not spoken openly. I got to know about it through wife of one aged, ardent follower (She was not involved seriously into the BKs but used to attend functions once in a while). She told me back then lot of people surrendered their everything and her husband was also thinking to donate their home but somehow decided not to do so.

This will not work for too long ... yeah, they have gained a lot of mileage. But "Baba" not coming will reduce the momentum. Even if he starts coming on somebody else, most followers will start leaving in droves. They cannot keep giving new dates upon new dates like they had been giving all these years. Most importantly, this time around, this very forum is a testament to all their past deeds which is a bone stuck laterally in their throats.

Sai Baba of Puttaparthy had lot of followers and believed him as God. But after he has gone, the sheen has faded. Only few followers are so confused what to do and continue to go to his ashram, because that is what they had been doing for so many years. There too, an army of learned, capable administrators believed or pretend to believe Sai Baba was God. However, unlike BKs, they used to pray Ganesha, Chant Vedas and more or less, it is a Bhakthi marga.

But here, in the BKs, the damage is too much and too deep. After years of practice, followers brains would have wired in a different way and it will take a lot of time and energy to recover and it may be so that the full recovery may not be possible. Many years wasted including the money.

I hope this forum and other content available in the internet will serve as a guiding light to many people.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post28 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:Please pardon my ignorance, was it in 1956 onward they started to introduce Incorporeal Shiva?

Absolutely correct. There is no mention of Shiva whatsoever up until after 1955/1956. Those are the latest materials we have found where it was all Lekhraj Kirpalani as "Prajapati God Brahma" and ZERO mention of Shiva.

All the official history is false. The inner circle sat down and colluded to pass off a false version of the history.

All of them together decided or agreed to hide that for 24 years they worshipped God Brahma.

Why? Because otherwise their method does not make sense, nor does their spiritual authority.

For example, they teach only through remembering Shiva can one become pure ... but that the period prior to 1955 was the period of purification ... therefore, how could they become "pure" if they did not know or remember Shiva.

No BK has addressed this simple logic, and the ethics of the deception, a deception they exploited to assert their superiority.

The only thing they are the greatest in ... is in lying.

Think about it ... which is the greatest lie? To lie to your wife about an infidelity, to lie to the taxman about your earnings ... or to lie in the name of, and about "God"?
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post28 Jan 2019

Rajdhani wrote:They used to keep telling (probably even now) that Brahma Baba wrote letters to Gandhiji and other world leaders. But they never said he had written to them that the WW2 was the final one. This aspect was censored.

We have copies of them now, they published them in a book ... to be quite frank, they were insane.

They invited Gandhi to come and gain enlightenment from them and he ignored them, after which they started insulting him.

It's a pattern in their behaviour that was established at that time and refined since ... obsessed by seeking 'status by association'.

What is so great (to who) about sending a letter to someone famous? Especially when likely they were never read by that famous person and went straight in the bin. Famous people employ secretaries to filter out the crazies and their begging letters.

Think through the mentality of the the individuals, "Oh, Om Radhe ... Lekhraj Kirpalani ... is so great, they wrote a letter to the Queen of England and Gandhi!". I suppose to illiterate old women it sounds wonderful ... but how did the rest of us ever get conned by such stupidity ... and engage in it ourselves, writing equally crazy letters and chasing VIPs on their behalf.

One of the criticism of the Om Mandli by the Anti-Om Mandli Committee was that all they did was sit around and think of way to promote themselves ... well, 80 years later 85 years later, they are still doing the same thing.

It was one of the key reasons - "servicing" meaning the chasing and sucking up to VIPs - that I quit.

Queen Elizabeth of England was 13 years old when they sent it. Hitler had just marched the German Army into Czechoslovakia, Mahatma Gandhi had just started a fast, protesting against British rule in India. Lekhraj Kirpalani called him a "traitor" for doing so.

Some they republished are in the Library section ... the BK elite kept these hidden from us and they were not discussed.
Sai Baba of Puttaparthy had lot of followers and believed him as God. But after he has gone, the sheen has faded.

What was the belief, that he was "a god" or a manifestation of "god", or god in human form.

All I can take from it is that within a certain level of Hinduism, calling someone "God", or "a god" is just a nice compliment. It does not really mean what it says.

What was the overbearing concept of God that they thought he was?

Brahma_Kumaris_to_Gandhi.jpg


Brahma_Kumaris_to_Queen_Elizabeth.jpg
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post29 Jan 2019

One thing that does come for me when I re-read this is that they say they foresaw "an impending great war" ... did they have real "visions" of it ... rather than just imaginations, as they use the word today ... possibly. But, of what?

Perhaps it was just of WWII. That WWII was it for Lekhraj Kirpalani's "visions".

Now, likely at this time the British cinemas in India would have been showing Pathe News films of the Sino-Chinese War, the Spanish Civil War, Germany's invasions and so on. The newspapers were full of the talk of war. Therefore, the mental environment was not entirely without influence.

But what if all that Lekhraj Kirpalani saw was WWII ... that they thought was the great Mahabharata war and he Krishna ... it happened, and now it's over. Possibily ... the "visions of heaven" could have just been visions of today?

Destruction did not happen in WWII as Lekhraj Kirpalani prophesised it would ... so they put their tails between their legs and ran off to Mount Abu to re-invent their story.

1950 ... 1976 ... 1986 ... 1986 to 1996 ... Year 2000 ... all great money earners for the conscienceless, money and life sucking, Brahma Kumari cult.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post29 Jan 2019

When someone is in the thrall of an ”obvious truth” they don't need to explain it or themselves, they just need to mention their truth and the other person will see it, its obvious! And if they don’t, they are unworthy, locked intellect, late birth soul etc.

Why did they invite Gandhi to visit/ (”then you may do what you like” it says!)

No doubt to get the media attention that would accompany him, get a couple of photos they could show and and to be able to say he was there - ”Look in the guest book. Gandhiji was here and he wrote 'very nice'".

I remember when the Dalai Lama was a guest at some BK events. Did they have any interest to find out more about his practices, experiences, insights or and philosophy given that BKs know close to zilch about Buddhism?

Of course not, they have nothing to learn, it's obvious!
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post30 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:What was the belief, that he was "a god" or a manifestation of "god", or god in human form.

Sathya Sai Baba (of Puttaparthy) was projecting himself as God. He had millions of followers and used to get loads of donations from richer followers. He had all kinds of microphones; Prime Minister, President, Cabinet Ministers, even Prime Ministers and Presidents of India's neighboring countries used to visit him. Some were ardent followers, some used to visit purely because of diplomatic relations he had (Like how BKs manage to invite some VIPs). But his clout was very much visible. Although the link here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba mentions him to be a Guru, many a times he has claimed himself to be God. He had also claimed he is the same Sai Baba of Shirdi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi) reborn. However, Sai Baba of Shirdi put some legal case as to not to make this claim.

He has done quite a good work like running free, high quality educational institutions, high quality super specialty hospitals etc. In his case, the majority of his followers were Hindus, he also had lot of foreigners as devotees who used to visit him regularly all the way from their countries. There were some people (Indians and Foreigners) who visited just out of curiosity too.

I don't know the ratio of BKs geography-wise in India but the general undercurrent in India for newer temples is if you can ensure adherence of initial, few people from Tamil Nadu and Andhra state to a Temple, the Trustees will have no worries to attract more devotees. That is because people from these states are generally far more ardent devotees and they will spread the word and start a trend so that more people from their state visit these temples. This is how one of the mechanism works. I am not saying drawing more people to a temple is bad, but this is one kind of marketing. Of course, there are other holy places like Hrishikesh, Haridwar, Amarnath etc, where all Hindus from all states will anyway keep visiting.

The bottom line here is, one day he passed away due to age. Thousands of ardent devotees were left to lick their wounds, gather their broken emotions and carry on with their life. Vast majority were Hindus who don't mind yet another photo of him to worship, but there were few thousands of people who were ardent devotees from decades, these are the people who were hurt the most. There is a belief that he will be reborn as "Prem Sai" in some south Indian town. hmm ... what can I say, this show might also start after few years (the trust still has huge infra & money).

For the BKs, the blessing in disguise is the euphoria of our Indian channels shows when it comes to Destruction. This was at its peak in 1998, 1999 and 2000. Then came some Mayan Calendar destruction story in 2012, I think. For 2012, these idiotic TV channels started publicizing it as early as 2008-2009.

Basically, we have close to 900 channels and any household with a cable connection will have 500 channels out of these 900 channels because they are all free channels. These channels compete with each other for TRP and rant useless stuff round the clock. Unfortunately, looks like they get good TRP from World ending, Destruction and once in a while they repeat this story. I think all these helps BKs and people who have seen this and believe on TV will think that they have connected the dots after attending 7 Day Course at BK center.
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post30 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:Think about it ... which is the greatest lie? To lie to your wife about an infidelity, to lie to the taxman about your earnings ... or to lie in the name of, and about "God"?

Totally agree.

In addition, according to them, if the body is a Chariot and the Soul is the real self, then after becoming 100% soul conscious in Golden Age, in perfect weather, there is no need to wear clothes. For example, why would anybody wear cloths on cloths? Why would anybody have a car inside a car and then the driver (they give this car and driver as body and soul example).
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post30 Jan 2019

The Indian BKs would never have dreamt of naked deities in my time, they were always clothed like Lakshmi and Narayan illustration.

Western BKs would speculate about more New Agey concepts, like "light bodies" and "more subtle matter". The funniest one was that ... the re-born BKs in the Golden Age would have no bottom holes, because they would produce no waste. Their diets would be "perfect", like everything else, and therefore just enough fruit juices and flower petals to grow and sustain their bodies.

Just exactly when the old Indian BKs were going to develop the sanskars of only sipping fruit juices and nibbling petal was never discussed ... that was a different matter, so eat as much as you want!

The Seniors might smile and nod but never commit to support such theories, Lakshmi and Narayan for them it was.
Rajdhani wrote:in India but the general undercurrent in India for newer temples is if you can ensure adherence of initial, few people from Tamil Nadu and Andhra state to a Temple, the Trustees will have no worries to attract more devotees. That is because people from these states are generally far more ardent devotees.

The BKs are Sindhis and so starting off developing along Sindhi/Bhaibund trading routes ... wherever the Sindhi/Bhaibunds had established themselves; eg Japan, London, Hong Kong etc.

The only specific business advice I remember Lekhraj Kirpalani giving them was "don't bother about the Gujeratis (Patels), they will come in their 1,000s" (approx). That turned out to be quite true. Much of the middle management consisted of Patel BK Sisters, support Sindhi Seniors.

I don't know where they focused their attentions on after SIndhi family members, Delhi obviously ... but which regions, I don't know.

In the early days, right up until the 1980s, there was a lot of racist or caste-ist statements in the Sakar Murlis, negative comments or metaphors about dark skinned or black people.

One of Dadi Janki's most notorious quotes here was, "Black people are the most impure".

Now I suspect it is all whitewashed out now.

Of course, much of it was metaphorical, however, it would be difficult not to accept that it was born out of Lekhraj Kirpalani's own cultural values. He also used the old fashioned Hindu concept of physical deformities, like hunchbacks, being the product of bad karma or bad character. The Murlis spoke of "hunchback children", meaning some sort of bad or weak BK adherent. Leather, another lower caste trade, was also used in a similar way for body-conscious BKs (skin = leather).
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Re: Brahmakumari founder had Shankar & Brahma in his body?

Post31 Jan 2019

ex-l wrote:
In the early days, right up until the 1980s, there was a lot of racist or caste-ist statements in the Sakar Murlis, negative comments or metaphors about dark skinned or black people.


I had met a senior Brother who was working in this Murli department. He used to say he has a rare chance to playground with Baba's knowledge nuggets equivalent to rubies and gems and diamonds. At that point I did not give much thought that he was actually changing the narration periodically to suit "Current" times.
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