How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen around us

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ymg

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How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen around us

Post31 Jan 2019

Hi everyone,

Can we all please unite for some concrete action against BK at international level now?

Please suggest.
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post31 Jan 2019

I know one man - a governmental advisor - who attempted to raise awareness about the Brahma Kumaris at the level of a national government overseas from India ... but he was told to drop it because it would look politically incorrect or racist for White people to do anything about them.

The BKs duplicitously play the "Hindu" card abroad, while criticizing Hindus at home.

He was Indian himself and a severe victim of the Brahma Kumaris. They not only destroyed his family, affecting two young daughters badly, but they went after his money/property *AND* tried to turn the police and social workers on him for some sort of religious discrimination, or something. Exploiting a mentally challenged wife (an anorexic type).

Some Brahma Kumaris even colluded with his wife advising her on how to divorce or accuse him, and so on.

Apparently - I have been told but never confirmed myself - other Indian men abroad have committed suicide because of such pressures.

I've written to various United Nations department and provided original copies of BK materials to prove the Nuclear war stuff ... but received ZERO responses. It's bizarre. Not even a rejection notice.

Partly, I learned from academic sources, outsiders just cannot believe *HOW* crazy BKism is ... and if you start showing and explaining to them, they think you're the crazy one. The BKs have invested so many millions into VIP schmoozing and PR that responsible parties find it hard to believe the criticisms are true.

The latter is part of the problem. They have millions to throw away on jet setting around the world, meeting VIPs and doing PR. Most ex-BKs have nothing, and destroyed educations or careers due to BKism.

It might help if someone was to go in person to the United Nations and start there ... to find someone to help them navigate the corridors of power, in order to find the right people.

Take a holiday to New York for a couple of weeks, at the right time, and start networking.

In a few nations, eg France, Poland, Russia, they faced difficult governmental pressures but have pretty much overcome them by exploting the democratic human rights that their god spirits and leaders think are so "impure", or by plainly lying about their beliefs.

The converting of "Destruction" into "Transformation" for outsiders is a typical one. Non-BKs need BK double-talk translated for them, and to be made aware of how the Brahma Kumaris lie to and decieve outsiders.

Unfortunately there is no one else out there to do it for you, you've got to do something yourself. We have *long* been waiting for someone in India to take up the challenge in Hindi and organise Hindu rejection of their corruption.

Outside of India, the truth is, the Brahma Kumaris are so small and insignificant that no one is bothered about them. Yes, they still destroy families and lives ... but on the scale of mass immigration, terrorism, pedophillia, Islam, and so on ... the BKs just aren't a big enough problem for governments to bother about.

In a way their evil - and I do believe they are a kind of evil now (although we'd need to define that word) - is a clever sort of evil because they keep it low key. By keeping it low key ... "under the radar" of public concern ... they have managed to carry it out for much longer.

Someone needs to carry out an "opposite and equal" campaign of knocking on politicians doors and speaking to VIPs in India until the truth about them is crack wide open ... but there I think you have a different problem. In India there are much worse things going on too, the BKs look relatively good by comparison.

Corruption, blind faith, exploitation of women etc is normal.

How do you see it happening? What is the most you can do?

There must be enough victims in India to pull together to make a change ... just avoid being an "anti-party" as they will use that to their benefit.

For me, I have come to conclude that the Brahma Kumaris are poisonous spiritual parasites. Not a great poison that kills them, but a subtle poison that addicts people to them, and through which they take over their lives.

Try re-marketing them as that. Keep the messages simple and short.

On the Right Wing, appeal to Hindu nationalism and expose their criticism and corruption of Hinduism.
On the Lest Wing, appeal to secular and human rights values, and expose their exploitation of females.

Destruction of families and the marrying off of virgins to their ghost should appear to both.

There are secular, Left Wing and feminist critics of the BKs in India, they may be good starting points ... the BK are metaphorically in bed with the Right Wing, and sucking up to them, in order to keep themselves safe. You would need to separate them from them.

What's the Shiv Sena etc attitude towards the BKs?
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Pink Panther

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post31 Jan 2019

i think because Freedom of Religion is a basic human right, what BKs believe is never going to be way to challenge them to lessen their power over people. There are even whackier beliefs out there!

I think in countries where their charitable status is based on being an educational organisation rather than a religion, strictly policed and highly conditional, there is a chance to make something stick, but that would require lawyers, accountants etc.

In countries where they have charitable status as a religious organisation it is harder unless ”undue influence” can be proved.

I think India is the place it can happen. They recently had those laws enforced about falsely claiming to be a University or College of education under education standards etc. The PBKs got hit with it I believe, but the BKs did not.

It needs someone impartial in the enforcement agencies to be presented the facts, then they'd need to get past any roadblocks put in the way by the many powerful friends the BKs have cult-ivated. The BKs are not beyond straight out bribery either, they have spoken openly about doing it in the past, saying its part of the local culture an you do what you have to do.

I doubt anything has changed much in that way.
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ymg

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post31 Jan 2019

Thanks to you both for giving a good insight as what has already happened. But let's try it all over again.

There could be hundred reasons to leave the idea of going against BK. But just one simple reason to hold the idea could be "Take the humanity out from the trap of such cults for the sake of world harmony". And I think people like us who have witnessed enough of the BKs' cruelty and politics care about incorrect influences on innocent minds and humanity.

If you all agree, then lets set some small realistic goals and start the mission from India. I will write a letter to PM of India. Let's see if it gets noticed.

People who believe in this cause please share your views and let us know what we all can try for.

Lets believe "nothing is impossible" if we all unite.
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post31 Jan 2019

Pink Panther wrote:I think because Freedom of Religion is a basic human right, what BKs believe is never going to be way to challenge them to lessen their power over people.

At the time when "Freedom of Religion" was a human rights issue, the people seeking religious freedom were the more reasonable, rational parties.

Now "Freedom of Religion" has been established as an idea, the parties exploiting at the more unreasonable, irrational parties.

Personally, I think "Freedom FROM Religion" is the present day human rights issue ... the freedom for individuals - especially children - not to be pressurised, and brainwashed, and enculturated into bogus superstitions and exploited by religious leaders.

I was reading an article, about how "Secularism in India is almost a defeated force". I don't know how true it is.
The BKs are not beyond straight out bribery either, they have spoken openly about doing it in the past, saying its part of the local culture an you do what you have to do.

I would say all the free retreats to luxury resorts are the BKs first level of bribery, I wonder how many - for example - retreat properties they have handed out either entirely or on a timeshare basis they have handed out?

I think more research - more fact seeking and example gathering - has to be done in India. A sort of "Truth and Reconcilliation Commission" that gathers as many stories of abuse, broken families, lost properties and so on.

Yes, we have to keep pushing as many buttons as possible until we hit a jackpot ... but, I am sorry, I am not sure a single person writing to the PM will do it. Their concern is with big numbers and the BKs - to their minds - produce "big numbers" for politicians, their pointless "mega programmes" to which they invite politicians to show off how powerful it is.

I say "pointless" because I bet almost zero BKs actually vote.

At present, we are few. We need to think strategically what we can do. There is lots of anti-BK sentiment in India FROM VICTIMS, I see it on social media; Quora, Youtube, Indian newspapers etc. There are a few concerned social activists.

My suggestion is to try and start gathering all those voices together. To gather all their stories.

The BKs started by gather what was really just a few deluded voices saying how wonderful they are to make themselves look good. If you could gather together, say, 100 stories about what the BKs have done and publish them, either on the internet or a booklet, perhaps it would have an effect?

I think a booklet family members could hand to a BK and say, "look, this is what happens" might have an effect.

They would have to be factual and true. That is most important. No simple insults or theoretical objections. We have many such stories here.

Then aim to influence rising power and rising VIPs that the BKs are bad for their image.

Once a VIP or politician is in power, it's too difficult and too late to influence them I think ... unless you have a direct personal contact, and it's a vote winner, eg exposing corruption, breaking families.

I think "family" is still important in India, more than individual rights, is it not?

Then it's a simple matter of "beating a simple beat on your drum" ... keeping repeating simple messages until it changes public opinion ... for example, truths like "The Brahma Kumaris break apart families ... The Brahma Kumaris number one interest is money and property ... The Brahma Kumaris have made many false predictions of the End of the World to make money and con people out of properties ... Dadi Janki covered up child sex abuse in Mount Abu ... There have been suicides in Brahma Kumari centres" (all of those are true). It's like politics, you need simple catchy memes to spread.

In my opinion, "the Brahma Kumaris are spiritual parasites". That is an opinion. It is hard to argue or defend. I say, "parasites" because parasites feed off their hosts while making them sick. You can probably say that safely.

I actually think they are psychic parasites.

In India, at a certain level, there is still a lot of fear about ghosts and spirits, you can probably use that, eg "I think that the Brahma Kumari ghosts and spirits are psychic parasites feeding off their followers energy".

You/we could make some cartoon memes to spread, like the Russians did during the American election.

It worked well.
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Pink Panther

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

The current PM Modhi and his party are very much for the concept of India as Religious nation. Not only that they are sympathetic to the notion of the Adi Dharma view of history, the one that says the Aryans are indigenous, there was no invasion from foreign, that Inda is birthplace of all civilisation etc etc.

You may have better luck with one of the State govts - and with a powerful woman spokesperson so that gender does not become the issue. Someone like Mamata Banerjee, the Chief Minister of West Bengal although politically alligned to the BJP is a woman who seems to be a champion of the common people, ready to shift alliances for the sake of doing the right thing (unless her PR has fooled me!). Dada Lekhraj spent many years in Calcutta so some official records there may be useful.

The BKs as an ideological organisation are more naturally aligned to the nationalist religious side of politics. As ex-l mentioned, they called Nehru’s Congress Party as ”crows” which in India is a big insult.

The states of Punjab, Rajasthan Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka all have left-leaning or centrist (not nationalist) state governments. Sonia Gandhi leads a non-parliamentary alliance of leftist parties called the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) .
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ymg

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

Thanks
ex-I wrote:I think "family" is still important in India, more than individual rights, is it not?

Yes, I believe for majority of indians

To do list could be like
    1. Spread the world (I have posed the question on quora)
    2. Collect the stories.
    3. Will write to PM anyways lets say it may go in vain
    4. Try to reach - Sham Manav who is activist in Maharashtra against such religious cults
One simple goal we can try for in the middle of many goals just to give a direction and make it simple is
- Baba Lekhraj is not a God and we an try to spread this awareness using one report submitted by Bhaibund committee in early days.

(attached with the reply)

We will keep going may be slowly - rest let's leave it to the time.

Who ever care for this cause please come forward.
Attachments
Om Mandli Bhaibund Committee Report.pdf
(1.65 MiB) Downloaded 42 times
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

Pink Panther wrote:The BKs as an ideological organisation are more naturally aligned to the nationalist religious side of politics. As ex-l mentioned, they called Nehru’s Congress Party as ”crows” which in India is a big insult.

Gandhi was a "traitor" and Congress were the crow party. God Lekhraj Kirpalani predicted civil war and destruction if Indian were to be disloyal to the British Royalty.

I would have thought that was a big story and that some journalist in India would be interested to pick up on that story and expose the Brahma Kumaris' hypocrisy.

The BKs have kept it all covered up, destroyed original materials and re-wrote or re-invented history ... and now suck up to Gandhi, quoting him, and Congress. The truth only survived because copies were kept overseas beyond their control and ability to destroy them.

You see their tendency ... to deny truth and promote self-flattering falsehood.

They cannot use their usual excuse of it being a "misinterpretation" by a follower.

If you manage to speak to one, warn them of this usual trick.

I've been doing my bit, daily, for years. Unfortunately, I am not in India. Indians have to come forward and to their bit. I am happy to talk to people and offer ideas, I could even come to India to speak to people if it would make a difference. You just have to start small and keep building.

I think it is important though to say that ...
    "You do not want to destory the Brahma Kumaris, you just want to transform them".
It's not the Destruction of BKism, it's the Transformation of BKism.

The Destruction of the evil within BKism. They've been at it for 87 and their way is not working ... so what we need is "Newness" to transform them.

So expose them. Destroy the falsehood. Remove their mast. If they are trully spiritual, they cannot say that is bad.

That to me is their weak point. They are most bothered about maintaining their false face reputation and high status.
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ymg

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

ex-l wrote:You just have to start small and keep building.

Sure I will try in every way to move slowly and steadily. I consider you both (ex-l and Pink Panther) as pillars of support and will try my bit wherever I could.

I understand that it is very important that this movement gains momentum in India.

Who ever interested to join this movement are most invited. Unity has power and Strength.
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Rita

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

@ymg

My family is ruined by these fraudulent ladies.

I am trying everything from my end. I have written to Shyam Manav and Vishwa Hindu Parishad even few ministers.

I am in India and a Hindi speaker.
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post01 Feb 2019

Something that I am surprised no one has done, is to expose how derrogatory the core of BKism is to Hinduism ... defining "Hinduism" for the purposes of this discussion as all Indian religions. You need to look into the old, original Sakar Murlis to find this.

As they have emerged onto the national and international stage, the BK leaders have had to tone down their god and founder's rhetoric but the contempt is clear in older, original documents and Sakar Murlis.

Now, in public, especially from the Western influenced BKs leaders, they've learned to adapt - lie, basically - and come out with New Agey sound bites, eg "all souls are pure ... all children of one (our) god" etc that contradict their real teachings, ie "BKism is the only path to salvation, everyone else is impure, ignorant, asleep and Bhakti is a waste of time".

In the early days, perhaps up until the 1980s, they defined themselves a being completely different and separate ... while at the same time, passing themselves off as "Hindus" if it was beneficial to them, eg "Dadi Janki as a Hindu leader".

Therefore, "BKism is not Hinduism, BKism is anti-Hindu, anti-Hinduism" message might be part of your armoury.

Why are all those gurus and saddhus supporting them and sitting on their stages (from who, again, the BKs are sucking "Status by Association" ... "look at us, we are powerful and important too").

We've had luck in the West knocking out the odd VIP by telling them what the BKs really teach.

It costs the BKs a lot - in time and money - to hook a politician or VIP. Politicians or VIPs are very concerned about their public image too. The more politician or VIPs you can knock off their rostrums, the more you cost the BKs ... and there is a finite pool of politician or VIPs.

You might want to identify and target their publicists and make it clear to their publicists what bad PR the BKs really are.

The joke is, this is actually crafty advise Lekhraj Kirpalani used to give the BKs. Don't chase the politicians, chase their secretaries. Politicians/VIPs come and go, the secretaries and publicists stay serving the next ones.

You won't easily get to Politicians/VIPs because they are so busy and have so many people demanding their attention, so go in via the backdoor where it is more quiet.

Do they still sweet talk the Bollywood stars etc with gifts, like golden chains and bracelets ... they used to take the gold off poor villagers. May be still do.

Let's keep thinking about this, as you need different strategies for different parties, eg "BKs says no Sanyasi or Sadhu in history has *ever* reach moksha" ... you can aim for specific followers of specific religions.

"BKs say The Buddha never reach Englightenment and must come back to them to do so". That is true BKism. They believe the Buddha kept re-incarnating and so Buddhism is a waste of energy.

"BKs say the Guru Granth is lower than Islam ... that Guru Nanak is spiritually lower than Mohammed". Again, that is true BKism, therefore Sikhism is also a waste of energy. Sikhs would be very upset at that.

I think you need to separate them from everyone they are using to gain power and status from ... to turn them into the pariahs they really ought to be seen as.

The BKs have stolen ... that is the right word ... stolen little bits of all other religions and are selling them as their own property. Saying to their followers that *they* are the true source of all these stolen goods, the names, the concepts, the words, the titles ... they are all counterfeit goods.

"BKs are selling counterfeit Hinduism". Does that work?

You need quick, simple slogans that people can catch, not long technical arguments.

Also, they hate being called a cult or an "ism" because in their book "-isms" only exist at the end of the kalps, like leaves on The Tree of Religion (another second hand idea they stole).
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ymg

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post03 Feb 2019

Rita wrote:I am trying everything from my end. I have written to Shyam Manav and Vishwa Hindu Parishad even few ministers.

Did anything transpire? How was your experience? Because I am also trying to reach Sham Manav. Also let's try to have the true story about Lekhraj kripalni in newspapers.
I am in India and a Hindi speaker.

Great, I am in Maharashtra and also a Hindi Speaker.
ex-I wrote:"BKs say The Buddha never reached Englightenment and must come back to them to do so". That is true BKism. They believe the Buddha kept re-incarnating and so Buddhism is a waste of energy.

"BKs say the Guru Granth is lower than Islam ... that Guru Nanak is spiritually lower than Mohammed". Again, that is true BKism, therefore Sikhism is also a waste of energy. Sikhs would be very upset at that.


This is definitely going to help us in a long run.
Do they still sweet talk the Bollywood stars etc with gifts, like golden chains and bracelets ... they used to take the gold off poor villagers. May be still do.

Yes, it hurts when all big Bollywood starts are promoting them and wishing them luck :) like Amitabh Bachchan and Priyanka Chopra.
"BKs are selling counterfeit Hinduism". Does that work?

I completely agree, but you see people get bias in the of name religion whether existing in East or West. I do read Hindu scriptures and can say with conviction that Hindu religion does not promote that One is pure soul and other is not.

Just to explain my point the following is the link of part of the serial that was broadcasted on Indian TV Channel based on Upanishads Hindu scripture. The person Ashtavakra who was a great Vedic sage says, "Knowledge is something that does not teach the feeling of duality or separation like you and I are different".

Thus BKs' teaching - One is pure soul and other is not - does not go with Hindu teachings.

Pink Panther wrote:I think because Freedom of Religion is a basic human right, what BKs believe is never going to be way to challenge them to lessen their power over people. There are even whackier beliefs out there!

I agree, but one hope could be like placing facts about Lekhraj Kriplani before people through news.
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Pink Panther

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post03 Feb 2019

It may be that you fight fire with fire?

The Vishwa Hindu Parishad were mentioned in the old Sakar Murlis. Lekhraj Kirpalani (alias Brahma Baba) mentions them them as well as the Arya Samaj, seeing them as direct rivals.

As I understand them, and correct if I am mistaken, all three are Hindu supremacist/nationalist organisations but my guess is that BKs are the only one of the three who consider their founder as God ("He’s not a guru”, they'll explain to everyone!!! Hahaha) while the others, the VHP and AS have members who’d each have different guru and god allegiances?

Are the Arya Samaj still around? They got mentioned the most in the old Sakar Murlis.
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ex-l

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post03 Feb 2019

Yes, you need to find some old original Sakar Murlis before the BKs started whitewashing them. I think I have a small collection of Hindi ones, and there are more in the Library section from the 1980s.

I am sorry it will make you sick but you'll need to read through them to pick this stuff out.

There's also hammering the BKs teachers/leaders/public with their hypocrisy and duplicity.

You see, I am less "anti-BK" and more "anti-hypocrisy", anti-exploitation, and anti-spiritual pollution ... excuse my rudeness but I don't like people pissing in the river of truth, or the river of life. And the BKs are doing worse. The truth, is the truth, is the truth ... not what you make it up to be.

Don't be "anti-BK" be anti- whatever it is you see wrong in them, eg financial exploitation, female exploitation, backwardness, supremacist etc. Demand they become more ethical, more spiritual (ie more truthful and honest), have more integrity etc.

I mean, I think Priyanka Chopra is a fair enough actress ... like most Bollywood actresses, she really only looks good with a ton of make up on (Aishwarya Rai was another) ... but, come on, in her first break out role in the West, she took off her panties and had sex in a carpark with a man whose name she did not even know. All within the first few moments of the series (Quantico) and she spent most of the series - and other movies since - with her tits out.

How on earth can the BKs demand their virgins act-like sexless angels, then use a sex symbol actress to promote them.

Ditto, if it is their theory that anyone having a Golden Age right now must be a single birth soul at the "fag end of the Kalpa" ... why are they chasing after them and use them as bait?

Is that the imagine of feminity they are promoting now?

Is "one rule for the elite and one rule for the following" spirituality?

This is more an argument to use with BK followers ... Priyanka Chopra's divine virtues ... possibly if every celebrity see that they get ridiculed or criticised for support BKism, they will stop doing so.

You need to target their managers, eg BK child sex cover up at Mount Abu headquarters.

Sexy-Priyanka-Chopra-Pictures.jpg
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ymg

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Re: How long are we going to have this BK fraud happen aroun

Post04 Feb 2019

Pink Panther wrote:The Vishwa Hindu Parishad were mentioned in the old Sakar Murlis. Lekhraj Kirpalani (alias Brahma Baba) mentions them them as well as the Arya Samaj, seeing them as direct rivals.

VHP are also seen as kind of extremist group pitching more for Ram temple which will again break the peace of country. Not sure how active the Arya Samaj is these days but I did not read any news portraying them as peace breaker. But there moto on website giving me some hopes :).
As I understand them, and correct if I am mistaken, all three are Hindu supremacist/nationalist organisations but my guess is that BKs are the only one of the three who consider their founder as God ("He’s not a guru”, they'll explain to everyone!!! Hahaha) while the others, the VHP and AS have members who’d each have different guru and god allegiances?

That's Right and if BK says Baba is their Guru and not God then probably 80% of nuisance created by them will vanish. You know my Brother says to me - "Should I listen to God (Baba Lekhraj) or you all" :( :( :(
ex-I wrote:Yes, you need to find some old original Sakar Murlis before the BKs started whitewashing them. I think I have a small collection of Hindi ones, and there are more in the Library section from the 1980s. I am sorry it will make you sick but you'll need to read through them to pick this stuff out.

Sure I will read. If you have some that are more problematic then other, please share me the reference.
Pink Panther wrote:As I understand them, and correct if I am mistaken, all three are Hindu supremacist/nationalist organisations but my guess is that BKs are the only one of the three who consider their founder as God ("He’s not a guru”, they'll explain to everyone!!! Hahaha) while the others, the VHP and AS have members who’d each have different guru and god allegiances?

My frustration is the same.

I am saying to do so many things here :). Before the to do list goes up, let me catch up with few things. Allow me months period to do somethings in this direction and will come back.

Meanwhile those who are interested to start a movement in India please share your views and are most invited to join.
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