More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

for discussing revisions in the history of the Brahma Kumaris and updating information about the organisation
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post10 Mar 2019

Ex-I,

Thank you for your response. The Universal Parent, for those who have such a belief system, loves all souls and the nature. The Universal Parent does not dislike xBKs or those who leave BKism. For more than 2 decades, I walked the walk, and talked the talk of BKism, thinking and most times feeling that it was the ultimate. Then the Universal Parent began warning me that BKism was not the facade presented to VIPs and IPs or novices, and that the ultimate was elsewhere. The warnings helped me to nullify the shock of being let go by the BKs.
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oldbk

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post12 Mar 2019

Here is another whitewash or should we say "brainwash" happening at the present time,

http://BK.ooo/dadi-hirdaya-mohini-2/

BIO of Dadi Gulzar on the official website, contains NO reference to the "BapDada" meetings, and Dadi Gulzar's role in this "important" event for BKs.

Like Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde, one face to the outside world and another face to the BKs.

After Dadi Gulzar passes away, this History will also be(come History) completely whitewashed !


"100 fold punishment should not be forgotten"
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bkti-pit

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Re: More Whitewashed History: BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

Pink Panther wrote:I couldn't watch the video in the OP of this thread, it made me feel nauseous...

I only watched the first few minutes and got sick ...
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oldbk

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

We should then say ... The video is of high quality since it "meets the expectations"!

What better can we expect for an organization that is going fast in the path of self-deception and world deception!

"For the BKs - 100 fold punishment should not be forgotten"
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ex-l

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

I really don't get it ... why Clarke Peters sticks it out with them and lends them his star appeal?

He is a cool, intelligent, appealling, and very talented guy. He must have seen some of the cracks in their mask.

Could it be, perhaps, that amongst them now he is treated just like a normal person with none of the "fan" based adoration he might otherwise get in society?
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oldbk

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

With Clarke Peters, it seems to be a combination of grief and age, contributing to his adherence with BKs. Grief due to the loss of his son at a very young age. Age is bringing thoughts for change, and his case it might be directed towards BKs, primarily on the topic of celibacy that he has highlighted.

From Clarke Peters: my family values
"I’ve had three relationships in my life and I’m finally getting it right with my third wife, Penny. I have two children by my first wife, Janine: China, an architect, and Peter, an artist. My second relationship was with Joanna, the daughter of the broadcaster David Jacobs, for 10 years. Even after Joanna and I separated, David was a guiding light in my life to the very end of his. I have two grandchildren: Maya, China’s daughter, and Cooper, Peter’s son.

Our son Guppy is still in my heart. He died at four of a kidney tumour in 1992. That was the demise of my relationship with Joanna; neither one of us knew how to deal with our grief and it was a tremendous strain. But we do also have Joe, our remaining son. (Contd.)
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oldbk

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

"Grief is a terrible thing. You never know when it’s going to hit you. I had known Penny for many years as a friend. Two years after Guppy passed away, the grief got me at a traffic light when I was driving with Penny one day. She just put her arms around me and was so loving and caring that our friendship turned into something else; we have a son, Max. Friendship is a great base for building into love: that’s something I try to pass on to my boys.

My belief system, Brahma Kumaris, involves celibacy and that’s not always easy, believe me. Celibacy helps me meditate and it’s an ongoing thing. When you see what happens with your body during sex and then what you feel during abstinence, there’s a marked difference in your energy.

When I’m with my wife, I’m totally with her – we do wonderful things together. It’s not like we’re rushing to get into bed, there’s some really beautiful life to experience besides that. How does she feel about it? She hasn’t complained."
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ex-l

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post19 Mar 2019

It seems he is or at least has been further out on the fringe, see talk of tantric sex.

Here he Since 1986, after a painful break up, he has, at first studiously and then more loosely, followed the teachings of the Brahma Kumaris, a monastic, millenarian religion of Indian origin. I'd concur with that as it was around the time I was exiting, and I remember him. I remember him talking about his struggles with the evil demon of "lust". </irony>
“I may not be the best example of a Kumari now but then I jumped in with both feet the meditation, the celibacy, the non-drinking, I was already a vegetarian. For a short period of time I felt like my whole being had been driving this mini and all of a sudden I was driving this Rolls Royce Phantom. I freaked me out.”

Hold on ...
Clarke Peters wrote:My belief system, Brahma Kumaris, involves celibacy ...
But we do also have Joe, our remaining son.
Guppy, who died of a kidney tumor at the age of four in 1992

I remember going to see his wonderful 'Five Guys Named Moe' when the BKs were courting him.

That was in 1988, the same year his deceased son was born ... so the two may be related on a timeline. I don't know.

I hope he has not connected the two in his sub-conscious, eg the death of his son being punishment for his sin of lust ... or, worse, like Dadi Janki Kripalani who interpreted the death of her child as being the work of their Baba freeing her from her husband and allowing her to escape to BKism.

I've always wondered if there was an element of neglect in her child's death ... but it will always remain an unanswered question. So easy to happen.
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Pink Panther

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post20 Mar 2019

I know we have gone off-topic, but I‘ll just comment that he implies he appreciates being celibate ... between the times that
When I’m with my wife, I’m totally with her – we do wonderful things together. It’s not like we’re rushing to get into bed,

i.e. abstaining longer between intercourses makes both the sex better and the times in between better.
bkti-pit wrote:
    Pink Panther wrote:
    "I couldn't watch the video in the OP of this thread, it made me feel nauseous..."
I only watched the first few minutes and got sick ...

Bkti-pit,

I was watching an episode of a three part documentary last night , about a particular cult that existed here through the 1980s and 1990s called The Family. A much smaller group than the BKs, with only a few centres around the world. My point goes to the experiences of those ex-cultees, how they felt returning to the place with the TV crew and when talking about it. They too struggled and some were sick. That cult was far far worse than the BKs, but there were definite parallels in the dynamics.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/cult-of-t ... 705V001S00
The Brahma Kumaris aren’t harmful like other cults

Yes, but they are harmful in their own way.
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ex-l

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post20 Mar 2019

Pink Panther wrote:I know we have gone off-topic, but I‘ll just comment that he implies he appreciates being celibate ... between intercourses makes both the sex better and the times in between better.

I suppose one could argue that discussion of who the Brahma Kumaris use to promote themselves in the USA is a reflection of who they are internally ... and one is reminded of Hansa Raval, one of the founders, secretly marrying a BK Brother (in order to defraud US Immigration) and then carrying out an affair with him. And of other centres were inter-BK relationships were common.

The facade, the illusion they wish to project, versus the reality. And who better to project an illusion than an actor, a professional illusionist?
Remski wrote:The [cult's front person] is not a safe person. They managed to capture the glow from the charismatic halo, bottle it up, and repackage it ... if they spent twenty years or more not speaking out against the abuse of the community in which they went on to attain [] status, you can bet that they didn’t pay much attention to the power dynamics they themselves were creating.

More importantly, consider whether their mentor status now positions them to “save” the brand with their maturity and guidance. That’s not just cynical on their part. It’s dangerous. Because one thing that [they] generally share with the leaders they hold at arm’s length is a grandiosity that believes their internal goodness constitutes all the learning they need.

I refer to classic Buddhism here where consorting with theatrical performers was actually forbidden and the Buddha himself is recorded as saying there was a special hell for actors who incite their audiences to greed, anger, and delusion ... either hell or rebirth in an animal womb. Part of this was due to their skill at creating illusion and evoking impassioned states of mind, part of it would have been practical, as they were generally known for providing sexual services on the side.

In another post, I referred to, 'The oxygen of all cultic mechanisms is deception' by Matthew Remski. He also discusses 'Respectable Bystanders in Yoga and Beyond'.

Now, Peters is beyond being a "Respectable Bystander" for BKism, although the term would clearly apply to their IP (important persons), VIP (very important persons) and "Contact Souls". Noting who and what they think is "important", ie rich and/or famous rather than, perhaps, virtuous. However, whilst being the voice of BKWSO he has clearly enjoyed "privileges" and indulgences ordinary BKs would be punished or even outcast for.

Imagine if a young Brahma Kumari teacher were to enjoy openly discuss enjoying her time in bed with a partner.

Paradoxically, Peters's very public breaking of the Maryadas and yet acceptance by the BK elite, lends a veneer of normality and reasonableness to BKism that artificially represents it as something it is not to non-rich and famous members.
Remski wrote:Understanding how the abuse works systemically is impossible, IMO, without diving into cult studies, which provide a robust framework for how the behaviours, information, thoughts, and emotions of group members are controlled through the manipulating strategies and deceive and negate the self.

When (not if) this analysis becomes normalized, the notion that these brands and their communities “protect” a particular kind of knowledge — a language that’s emboldened by references to “tradition” or “lineage” — will start to ring hollow. It will become clear that the shadow function of the organization has been at least dual. Aside from the good the organization has done, it has used the notion of
    Protecting proprietary/precious information to…
    Protect the image of the abusers said to hold it.
The vehemence of those who protect “purity” seems to rise in direct proportion to their shame.
The pressing question becomes “Who then was doing the protecting?” The answer is that it takes all types, from the goon-enforcer all the way up to the academic who gave the group uncritical validation by overlooking its cultic machine. But here I’d like to focus on the most respectable and popular types, who continued on in their careers after abuses became known, largely without changing tack. Let’s call them the Respectable Bystanders (RBs).

Think about the teacher who is well-respected for conflicting reasons:
    They have a strong relationship to a socially viable brand (i.e., they are “traditional”), but
    They have also tacitly distanced themselves from it (they are “independent”).
They often enjoy privileged status within the group, held up as paragons of virtue, as people who got the “true” message of the teachings, as luminaries who didn’t succumb to the foibles of the corrupt leadership. They were able to “separate the teacher from the teachings”.
In public they’ll maintain enough of a relationship to the group to serve as an apparently safer or saner alternative to its darker regions. At the same time the RB will profess just enough ambivalence towards the group to not be dragged down by association.

Respectable Bystanders, he writes, didn’t sealed themselves off from all other influences. They diluted their socio-economic links to the abusive leader in part through being open to and sometimes taking on other influences.

He suggests questions to ask them like,
“Are you clear about the conflict between benefit and harm in your heritage?”
“What are you doing to help those who were hurt by the system you benefited from?”

To which I would sharpen ... "that you benefited from while being given privileges and allowed indulgences on account of your status etc".
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Pink Panther

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post21 Mar 2019

Was Remski writing about particular groups or is his stuff based on wide ranging research?

The excerpts you have provided made me think that one of the differences between a cult and a religion is (using the words for convenience) the ratio of ”clergy” to ”laity”.

Cults have a very solid core group that adhere strictly to the prescribed codes and teachings who make up the majority of those identifying with the group. There may be a small laity who will attend occasional events but do not follow strictly and are not expected to because they are not seen as ”full members” of the club. There are ”honorary members” who are of the laity but afforded much time and attention because of the value as instruments for PR. Any serious dissenters of major fundamentals of the beliefs are not tolerated and are not considered as "one of them'' any more, be they laity or clergy, even if the dissenter still identifies with the group - unless they are ”honorary members’ being exploited.

Religions have a solid core of clergy but they are far outnumbered by the laity. They will have many sub-groupings who interpret the beliefs differently and even vehemently debate them but still identify and are identified as belonging to that broad religion.
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ex-l

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Re: More Whitewashed History? BK service in the USA movie

Post21 Mar 2019

How about,
    Religions: Have lots of land and properties, and sustainable income derived from them.

    Cults: Are still in the process of attaining them through any means, fair or foul.
Pink Panther wrote:Was Remski writing about particular groups or is his stuff based on wide ranging research?

I think it is wide ranging research within the physical Yoga related world. He's written a book on it, and attracted a lot of flack, and the blurb says.
Practice and All Is Coming: Abuse, Cult Dynamics, and Healing in Yoga and Beyond

Through dogged investigative work, careful listening to survivor stories of assault and abuse, and close analysis of the cultic mechanisms at play in the sphere of Pattabhi Jois’s Ashtanga community, Matthew Remski’s Practice and All is Coming offers a sober view into a collective and intergenerational trauma.
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