Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year old wife Jasoda

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Maui

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Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year old wife Jasoda

Post02 Mar 2019

So ... not sure if this is the correct place to post this.

Today I found out that Brahma Baba married his wife when he was 18. Guess how old his wife was?

9 years old.

That's right ... it was told in a Murli class and no one seemed disturbed by this. Then the Sister went on to say that he left her for 3 years to find fortune, returned to her ... that makes her 12.

To my mind, pedophiles should be locked up; held accountable as the Catholic church is doing now in Australia and USA.

My thoughts are now that he founded this institution with all young girls ... one has stated in the class that it was the "times" and still goes on in India today. And that someone who has "come to God" has changed their ways. I am starting to think his so called visions were made up and he wanted a "stable" of young girls.

To me, it is appalling the use and abuse of children in this manner; I do not believe there is any cure for pedophilia, and this leads me to think anew of his motives early on.
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ex-l

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Re: BK Controversies

Post02 Mar 2019

Maui wrote:Today I found out that Brahma Baba married his wife when he was 18. Guess how old his wife was?

9 years old.

That's right ... it was told in a Murli class and no one seemed disturbed by this.

Wow, so you are saying their sexual relationship started when Lekhraj Kirpalani was 21 and she was 12?

Let us also remember, Lekhraj Kirpalani married his 15 year old daughter off to a 50 year old man.

It's a long time since I researched the history, so let's do some arithmetic.

He was born in 1884, so they married in 1902?

He started his satsang around 1932 and was 52 in 1936 when "God" was meant to have entered him. Except that there was no mention of God Shiva until around 1956 and prior to that he was their God Brahma.

So that shoots the "came to god" equation out of the water.

Have you read the two early books in the Library, 'Is this Justice?' by Om Radhe (1939) and An Answer to Is this Justice?, by the Anti-Om Mandli Committee (1940)?

On Page 147 of Is this Justice?, it lists Jasoda Lekhraj Kirpalani age as 45. These were copies of court documents and, hence, reliable. It is where we discover Lekhraj Kirpalani's real age.

1939 - 45 = 1894, so it appears to work out correctly, approximately 8 or 9 years old.

More information please ... and your permission to split this off into a new topic.

How and why was this information being deseminated around the BKWSU? Can you remind me of the names and ages of his children? Krishan (oldest son - married Radhika/Dadi Brijindra [born 1913]), Kalavati (daughter), Parvati/Palu (daughter [October 1917]), Nav Nidhi (Puttu - daughter [1928?]), Narayan (son [born 1927]), Surya Kumari (daughter - [poss. "Dimblu" or Pari [born 1929/30]?]).

Grand sons 'Ghanshamdas' [1934?] and 'Lachmandas' [1934?] were mentioned.

What ages were the rest? (Corrections if necessary, please).

I am not sure about "finding his fortune". I doubt he had his fortune by 21 ... but what it probably means he went off to apprentice and then gain acceptance as a full member as a Bhai of the Bhaibund. Basically, they had to work long and hard for nothing, and "grind their bones", and learn the family trade. I argue that much of the core of BKism is actually based on the Bhaibund model.

Yes, if you read 'An Answer to Is this Justice?', there was definitely a physical/sexual element to Lekhraj Kirpalani's involvement with the young women and girls.

I would suspect that we could also deduce that his marriage to Jasoda was loveless or their were poorly matched (it as essentially society sanctioned child sex abuse). And it goes further to the next generation because when Lekhraj Kirpalani initially took back his married daughter from her husband to the Om Mandli, he left a 3 year old granddaugther with the in-laws.

Lekharaj also married his "adopted daughter" Om Radhe around 1953. His real wife died in 1961 (the "just eat halva" quote, sent to his daughter, dating back to then). Om Radhe was his wife's cousin's daughter.

BTW, it is said - by non-BK sources, that Om Mandli was actually the idea of Kismatrai Hatiramani, husband of Haki Bai (and Sister of Lekhraj Kirpalani), and that he was the source of the philosophy it was based on.
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Maui

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post04 Mar 2019

Thank you ... yes, seems right to start this new topic. I had no idea where to put it.

I don't have a lot of the info you are asking about ... but I met his son a few years back in Madhuban, the one that looks like him, Narayan. I believe he died last year.

Why is this info being disseminated within the BK world? Not sure, but it was talked about at the recent NCC retreat that many of the Sisters just returned from.

I will have to read what you have offered in the files re: early books in the Library. I had no idea Radhe was his wire's cousin's daughter ... wow. He actually married her? Had he divorced his wife?

I also think you are right about Lekharaj basing his beginnings based on that Bhaibund model. I have heard Denise Lawrence speak of this one time in Madhuban, although I did not give much thought to it at the time. She is now very much into the Gita and "instructing" everyone of this true beginnings whereby BKism develops originally from the early beginnings of Lekharaj's studies in the Gita. My understanding is she will be starting up TV Godlywood studios or in Delhi again in the fall/winter with new programs on the Gita/Karma.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post04 Mar 2019

Maui wrote:Narayan. I believe he died last year.

I had not heard about that. If so, it's a great loss to the hope of historical accuracy. He lived with/looked after Lekhraj Kirpalani's other daughter, who left the BKs and had cancer, Surya Kumari was it? I suppose she is dead now too?

To some extent his silence was bought by the BKs but he was fairly bitter and critical of them at times, especially over their money making and misrepresentation of his Father.

Sadly, as the last of the originals die off, the current encumbents are allowed free rein to re-invent as they please, and no one is left to challenge them.
My understanding is [Denise Lawrence] will be starting up TV Godlywood studios or in Delhi again in the fall/winter with new programs on the Gita/Karma.

I had noticed that Denise-bot was inventing a position for herself as the resident "Bhagavad Gita Expert", but is she?

Can one be an expert in a made up thing? (Karma) It's even worse than being an expert in fairy stories, because at least everyone knows a fairy story is a fairy story.

What was written in the original documents was that Lekhraj Kirpalani was not by any means a religous scholar, or even educated, but that he taught from the Gita well enough for the uneducated (and illterate) women and children in his mock satsang. But it was noted that he cause great offence by allowing the Gita to drop from his hand, and insulted the Granth. (You know how many religions have a thing about treating their book like it is a God).

As ex-BKs, we know how critical he was in the Sakar Murlis towards Hindus and Hinduism, Saddhus, priests, temples etc, so what is Denise doing? Inventing a position within BKism for herself?

Playing up for the now diluted Hindu audience that still hold value in the Gita?

I wonder if any pandit outside of BKism recognises her expertise? Or if she just doing the BK thing and explaining what it really means (from BK point of view).

How can she say she is teaching what Lekhraj Kirpalani taught when the early evidence contradicts it entirely?

The Gita clearly stands to oppose BKism on the nature of God amongst other things. I would say BKism is clearly a denial of the religious value of the Bhagavand Gita.

I remember from the old days, Denise did raise what I thought was an interesting issue, about how BK used their sexuality in service (not bluntly meaning actual sex, but their feminity). I suppose that if she had not been sucked into BKism, she would have been a successful professional woman and a feminist in favour of women's rights.

How could she surrender herself to a man who married a child and never spoke out about the practise, and went on to marry his child off to an elderly man.

You are correct, it is up there with the Roman Catholic pedophilia controversy.

Denise-bot must be one of, if not the longest serving Western BK and she's been through some tough times. We read here that she had some kind of burn out/breakdown and took time out ... perhaps personality clashes with Mohini in the USA or something?

Is she a big fish in the small BK pool, or is she just struggling to find herself a role that pays for her keep (living standards)?

How did she get on the BK Gravy Train* in India? Is she on a "religious visa" now. It was always a kind of dream ticket for Western BKs to go and live in Madhuban and be financialy supported without having to do real work.

* used to refer to a situation in which someone can make a lot of money for very little effort: "come to Godlywood and get on to the gravy train" (not suggest she personally is making money but they are).

Does she get paid outside of BKism to do stuff like the corporate coaching?
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post04 Mar 2019

Denise ... She is an enigma, alright.

She has been living in Germany, subsidized by people, "friends" who value her so called expertise in spirituality and support her "needs", including housing. She has written a book, which I was told was handed out at the NCC meeting. I am trying to find a copy of it.

A friend of mine, who happens to get along well with her, said the book was "crazy" ... he said he did not understand some of it and he was told at the NCC that she published it herself outside of Madhuban. This Brother is an IT specialist and thought it was just fantasy of her trying to work out her own issues. I've asked him to send one to me if possible.

Yes, there was much discord between her and Mohini back in the days. She always found solace in the Sister she did much service initially with from California, Chandru, I believe her name is. Although looked at as quite an intellectual, she tried to sway others with her so called pseudo/psychology without having any degree as such. She does have quite a following among Westerners, particularly in UK, and some known previously from Canada.

Another Brother who knew Narayan well, said he mellowed over time; he would attend the transmissions each year.

I was told he did a short interview last January 18th, 2018 but this Brother - who lives in Madhuban - told me he died shortly after that. I cannot find validation as to this, however. But another Sister in NY told me the same thing.

I will try to find out more information in regards to his family.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year old wife Jasoda

Post04 Mar 2019

Maui wrote:Another Brother who knew Narayan well, said he mellowed over time; he would attend the transmissions each year. I was told he did a short interview last January 18th, 2018 but this Brother - who lives in Madhuban - told me he died shortly after that. I cannot find validation as to this, however. But another Sister in NY told me the same thing.

The BKs do not have any ”Honour Roll of the Fallen” except for the very few at the top who are immortalised as saints. If they had a wall with the names of all the BKs or "cooperative souls" who’ve died since the organisation began, it'd be as long as any major war memorial. Such a memorial would lead to questions about their histories, their roles. How is it that BK x was shown as one of the top 8 beads of the ”Vijay Mala” in the early posters but not in the later ones?

How is it so many generations have come and gone believing this was a last incarnation before a new Golden Age etc ... being told "just a few years" ... the same story told to every new batch of recruits. How many human years, nay lives, have been sacrificed for the Shiv Shakti army?
Maui wrote:A friend of mine, who happens to get along well with her, said the book was "crazy" ... he said he did not understand some of it and he was told at the NCC that she published it herself outside of Madhuban. This Brother is an IT specialist and thought it was just fantasy of her trying to work out her own issues.

There is a recent famous quote by Scottish psychiatrist R D Laing
"Insanity is a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world." - R. D. Laing

It basically means extraordinary circumstances, understandably, can have extraordinary effect on a person's mind, and in this case, not for the better.

The BK beliefs, culture and structures are their own insane ‘adjustment' to an insane world. (And they too have to keep adjusting as the insane world doesn't go where they've fantasised/predicted it will). And some BKs find themselves responding in kind to the insanity of the BK world. Out of the frying pan ...

Many BKs have breakdowns of various sorts. Some of their conditions go unnoticed, often because they actually suit the system creating further dependency. Others do not 'suit'. If any become a nuisance to the organisation, they are ‘returned to sender’, back to their biological families (if they are lucky enough to have supportive ones) or just banned from attending.

Denise shows she has intelligence by having a breakdown in response to the extreme and chronic cognitive dissonance required to keep on keeping on as a BK for so many decades. That she is a thinker means she’s very, very, very aware (if suppressively) of the failed predictions and all the other taurus excretus of Brahmins (BK and caste-born).

A fragile ego cannot admit error, especially major ones, its suicide. The BKs like to say they have the ”divine ego” of soul consciousness etc. That is the opioid that dulls the pain. A docile herd is then easily led. Holy? My arse!!!

Holy Cow.jpg

the myth of the holy cow.jpg
... the origin of the term ‘cattle’ is derived from ‘chattel’, from where the term ‘capital’ also derives its meaning. The book Marx should have written perhaps is ‘Das Cattle’ and not ‘Das Capital’ - from an informative and entertaining piece about religious myths perpetuated as a means to exploitation at http://www.area148.com/the-myth-of-the-holy-cow/ - by Deepika Jaitley - November 24, 2015.
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GuptaRati 6666

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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post05 Mar 2019

The fools or the misguided, who follow Denise are following a woman, with blood stained on her hands and on her soul. This is a woman who regarded males with PhDs in nuclear physics and medical biophysics as stupid. I have not read her book and most likely will not read it.

Sometimes, my Sisters around the world will blindly love and admire another Sister who has attained accomplishments in the spiritual community. Denise has to be given credit for her pioneering role in service in the USA. There were times when Denise and Chandru would sleep in their car in the park or sleep on the benches at rest stops after hours of driving from one service site to another. In spite of her spiritual heroics, the ladders she scaled to reach to some of her spiritual mountain tops, were not all snakes (my respects to the ecosystems of reptiles) some were ladders made of humans and human skeletons.

Any human, including a super-BK will be haunted by the results of their actions, if as a spiritual person they openly cursed (not in the 4 letter sense), their fellow souls in male bodies, and verbally, and psychologically abused males as they walked along the path. I would rather not call those who follow Dense fools, I would rather say they are misguided and uninformed souls. They may challenge me on my description of them, which is not a label. Let them ask Denise to explain to them her role in the demise of small Robert of San Francisco and her clashes with Robert Shubow.

The Universal Parent or Parent of the Multiverse is forgiving; how well can we forgive ourselves for the deepest hurts we have inflicted on other souls psychologically and spiritually.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post05 Mar 2019

It's been almost 40 years, I wish what happened to little Robert does not ever happen to another soul nor for parents to suffer the loss of their child as a result of the child's interaction with a cult.

The parents and/or relatives of little Robert, bless his soul, should have his case legally reopened and Denise truthfully explain her interaction with little Robert 72 hours prior to his horrific demise.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post05 Mar 2019

In some instances, to gain insights into the characters of some top brass BKs, we have to look at their interactions with novice BKs. Mohini is an example.

A Guyanese Brother related to me one of his interactions with Mohini, when she was the center-in-charge of South America and the Caribbean, prior to her arrival in the USA. The Brother has mixed heritage, though it was not over in his features, including Indian, English, Dutch, and Chinese. His relatives were also well placed in the social and administrative strata of the Guyanese society, including the military and technocratic sectors. Mohini was completing her second year of service in the region, after directly traveling from India to replace Jayanti and Lata, who first brought BK raj Yoga to Guyana.

The Brother went to Mount Abu and through the advocacy of Hemlata and Jayanti, as his lawyers in the court of Baap Dada, was granted the green light to pursue an all expense paid scholarship in veterinary medicine in the USA. The Brother at the time was a teacher of mathematics and became Chairman of the school's mathematics department at age 21 years old! He only took up the position of teaching mathematics as he awaited the processing of documents by the Guyana Government for his studies abroad.

Two weeks prior to his departure for the USA, after a had undergone two tours of duty undergoing guerilla warfare training in the Amazon, had been issued a multiple entrance student visa by the US embassy in Georgetown, he was issued a Shrimat from Mohini, which contradicted his advice from Baap Dada. Mohini told him it was best for him to relinquish the scholarship, rent an apartment in Georgetown, and increase his service activity in Guyana, while teaching. The Brother with strong support from friends and relatives, allowed her advice to pass over and around him, and pursued his scholarship. At around the same time, Mohini most likely encouraged Steve Naraine's daughter to pursue scholarship studies in computer science in the USA while discouraging a black Brother from his pursuit of veterinary medicine in the USA.

The Brother returned to Guyana following the completion of his studies and became a very successful veterinary officer in Guyana. He received recognition by the veterinary medical community in Guyana for his work rescuing and successfully treating an orphaned new born manatee, and had a successful veterinary practice in rural Guyana.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post05 Mar 2019

GuptaRati 6666 wrote:It's been almost 40 years, I wish what happened to little Robert does not ever happen to another soul ... Denise truthfully explain her interaction with little Robert 72 hours prior to his horrific demise.

We are headed a little off topic but you are referring to the suicide of Robert (name?) from jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge in California.

What happened in those 72 hours that involved Denise? And I wonder how she accommodates it within her world view? Was Robert just a "weak brick", or was it "his karma" (given she is an expert on karma now)?

Do the BKs ever take either individual or collective responsibility for anything?

We only know what happen in the last 4 seconds.
The four-second fall from the Golden Gate Bridge sends a person plunging 245 feet at 75 miles per hour to hit the waters of the San Francisco Bay "with the force of a speeding truck meeting a concrete building".

Jumping off the bridge holds a 98 percent fatality rate. Some die instantly from internal injuries, while others drown or die of hypothermia.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post06 Mar 2019

I apologize for shifting the discussion off of its focus. I speak of the same Robert. He was a friend of mine. At the time, every soul in the USA who became BK seemed precious.

The non-humanistic approach or double standard of the BKs in terms of respecting life and lives must have originated more than 70 years ago when BKism made its baby steps. It is from the view of the paradox of humanism that I have interjected my discussion of Denise and Mohini; two individuals who like cyborgs have been following a script unchallenged, yet strained with falsehoods extending back to many decades.

I have met the son of Dada Lekraj during my visits to India. I was always interested in the ways the folks in Mount Abu interacted with him and the ways he interacted with Baap-Dada, during personal meetings.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year old wife Jasoda

Post06 Mar 2019

There’s a thread somewhere on this site of those BKs who’ve died, some by suicide, some by ”misfortune” - often as a result of the BKs influence on their lives.

Has little Robert’s story been included? ex-l if you know where it is maybe these last few posts can be put there an Guptarati tell about more about the man and his circumstances?

(I wonder how many relatives or associates of BKs have resorted to self harm or whose wellbeing has been harmed because of BKs?).
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post06 Mar 2019

I cannot remember his second name. What was Denise's part in his death?
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post06 Mar 2019

I have not heard of this Robert BK Brother, however, there seems to have been a time when Denise had a terrible emotional turmoil; some say breakdown, some say requiring a much needed rest.

Many know of her negative interractions with Mohini and leaving Canada but this was not the time of her apparent difficult turmoil.

The Brother at the NCC alluded to her book fantasy as a mechanism for her dealing with a very dark time, many years ago, both personally and with another BK. It should be quite interesting her take/series of talks on karma.

Suicide is a topic I found most BKs don't wish to speak about.
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Re: Dada Lekhraj Kirpalani, aka Brahma Baba, married 9 year

Post06 Mar 2019

Pink,

Thank you. It's not a problem. I support you idea of having my response place in the section you have recommended.

I am not sure totally about Denise role in Robert's demise. The coroner's office of the city of San Francisco would have most likely documented his demise. I am also unaware if there was an inquiry which was processed by the courts of California.

It is a fact that Mohini and Denise have been notorious to excoriating BKs psychologically with words calling their verbal abuse danda or stick. I would rather not discuss any more details of their verbal abuse, which would humiliate a neophyte and cause a new seeker to trivialize her/his life. Both Denise and Mohini were quite famous for belittling anyone in the name of serving God. I will discuss the details in another appropriate topic. Sometimes the verbal attacks were very personal.

Thank you your comments Maui.

When a spiritual community has a 70-80 years of practicing metaphysical principles in unbalanced ways with little or no academic nor intellectual foundation, there is bound to be a situation in which expressions or practices of emotional intelligence is heavily suppressed.

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