Lee James

for ex-BKs to discuss matters related to experiences in BKWSU & after leaving.
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ex-l

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Lee James

Post04 Jan 2007

Hi

I saw this and it is says this BK is a "spiritualist".

Does that mean spiritualist as in psychic speaking to dead grannies and telling the future etc? How does that fit into BK today?

Thanks.
Lee James, a charismatic personality who had the audience spellbound, is a psychologist, spiritualist, actor and international speaker and counselor

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joel

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Re: Lee James

Post05 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:I saw this and it is says this BK is a "spiritualist".

Does that mean spiritualist as in psychic speaking to dead grannies and telling the future etc? How does that fit into BK today?

Thanks for the interesting tidbit (on someone I lived with for quite a time) in the guise of bad-body^W^W bad-boy word police.

Usage defines words. Many words' meaning have flip flopped over the years.

Moot point, for example, once meant 'under discussion' now tends to mean 'peripheral, irrelevant, obvious' in common use (in my experience.)

n.b. as this is not wikipedia, i can say this under my own authority.
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ex-l

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Re: Lee James

Post05 Jan 2007

joel wrote:Usage defines words. Many words' meaning have flip flopped over the years.

Misuage defines them, or the misusers, even more. I don't follow you. Are you say that he, they are re-inventing the meaning of the word "spiritualist"? That he is not a spiritualist after all ... just someone that is an expert in "spirituality"? What ever that is.

Spiritualitist may not have the same [Baba's] ring to it I suppose ...
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mitra

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Post05 Jan 2007

Spiritualist may be some one connected with spirituality.

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tinydot

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Post05 Jan 2007

I came from a Catholic country, but left that country, and I would say majority of Christians have some kind of negative connotation with the word Spiritualist. I would think removing the "ist" would sound a lot better.
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bansy

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Post05 Jan 2007

Lee James is genuine ? I'll let this one out of the bag because I've seem more people hurt and hope it will stop and some of his Seniors take note :

I recall reading an article in Heart and Soul, one of the BK's periodical magazines which you can get in their bookstores. I don't recall the exact words used, but he criticised the society of Japan for it's inability to change with the times. Even though it has only managed to become the second biggest economy in the world. Yet Lee James spent many years in Japan, so probably gave up on himself and worst, on the souls there. It is a surprise that not much appraisal was given to a country where he was to have "served" but to come out with criticisms.

As anyone knows, he is Australian and to think that he could go to a country with a totally different culture than his own and tell them what is best for them, is rather shortsightness. Yet he cannot speak the language, expect other countries to be like his own home country, is it no surprise he left. Maybe he got kicked out. I don't think he can hold a place even in his own home country.

I have met Lee James, he seems to be a nice guy on the surface, but over a few times, one is not sure if he is acting anymore or he's hiding behind himself.


Regarding "culture, the BK culture is supposed to be a single family culture, but there are too many "country families", you're chosen to be in one family or another, it's sometimes seems more like a competition. I think BKs from one country should do service in their own country, and although everyone in the world is a soul, none of us are pure and soul conscious and there are boundless mistakes to be made. There are too many Western BKs giving service in countries outside of their own origin, is it because they are unable to do the service in their own country ? Let at least Dadis do the world service only. Have quality, not quantity. (Could be a start of another thread).

You can even see Lee James going to India itself and telling Indians and Indian corporations what to do, rather than allowing an Indian BK to do so. This also appeared in either the Purity magazine or World Renweal magazine.

Maybe he has done some good service, but with also bad service, all that good has meant very little.
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zhuk

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Post06 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:As anyone knows, he is Australian and to think that he could go to a country with a totally different culture than his own and tell them what is best for them, is rather shortsightness. Yet he cannot speak the language, expect other countries to be like his own home country, is it no surprise he left. Maybe he got kicked out. I don't think he can hold a place even in his own home country.

Hey, quite a few of my countrymen seem to have the same patronising attitude ... case in point the Aust PM :roll:.
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Mr Green

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Post06 Jan 2007

I knew Lee a bit, he could be a good laugh and he could also be a show off of the highest order

I got the feeling he just does his own thing
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ex-l

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Post07 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:There are too many Western BKs giving service in countries outside of their own origin, is it because they are unable to do the service in their own country ? Let at least Dadis do the world service only. Have quality, not quantity. (Could be a start of another thread).

Interesting one ... Western Imperialism and Neo-Colonial influences within the BK World. I'd say yes. The power of being white ... the Indians certainly used and use white BKs as "power talismans" to impress the locals.
I don't recall the exact words used, but he criticised the society of Japan for it's inability to change with the times. Even though it has only managed to become the second biggest economy in the world. Yet Lee James spent many years in Japan, so probably gave up on himself and worst, on the souls there. It is a surprise that not much appraisal was given to a country where he was to have "served" but to come out with criticisms.

You ought to add, "Even though it has only managed to become the second biggest economy in the world ... " 35 years after it had been nuked twice and had all its major cities and industry burnt to the ground, with half as many people and all in a country the size of a single US state.

A lot of people know about the unnecessary War crimes of Hiroshima and Nagasaki but few know that the US set about to systematically reduce to ashes every major city in Japan, firebombing cities made of wood and paper. They were so "successful" at it that they even ran out of targets before the programme was to end. The victims of course, as in most of America's wars, were women and children and it is hard not to square the war against the "yellow man" with the war against the "red man".

Of all nations, few have made such quick U-turns as Japan, and continue to, and none have had such long period of peace and inward-lookingness. From a feudal society to military-industrial might to a peace orientated technocracy, all at unmatched speed. Their very environments, lacking in natural wealth and built as it is on volcanic weakness, gives them a resilience, resourcefulness and greater sense of imperminence than most people. Perhaps the Japanese kami were defending them from the BKs' one !?!

I do not know the guy, but talents don't equate to virtues. Do you think it was a rejection of him or a rejection of what he was selling, or how he was selling it? I don't see what is soul counscious about putting on a song and dance. To me it seems that the BKs have gone from 90% cake and 10% icing to 90% icing and 10% cake and this focus on talents in service, whether artistic or business, is typical of it.

And so the guy is not a spiritualist then either?
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bansy

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Post07 Jan 2007

So far, of the senior Western BKs, only Sister Denise as one of the early BKs coming into the Yagya puts a lot of effort into understanding the Indian mindset, living with them. A few Western Brothers also now live in Mt Abu. How many Western BKs feel that curries, chappatis and rotis are still exotic and adopted foods, whereas Indians find them the norm.

Sorry to say, but I feel an Indian BK teacher, even if junior or new, are able to express "bhavna" feelings that a senior Western BK needs much time to learn before they should even tackle the service elements. Brother Nirwair does a lot to try bridging this gap. OK, I cannot choose where I come from and was born with it, but in order to teach a culture, one needs to learn that culture in depth. Because for the BKs, the only place that will be left standing after the global floods is India.
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proy

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spiritualism

Post08 Jan 2007

The BKs first breakthrough in London came when they were allowed to speak to large audiences in spiritualist (Yes, that is as in talking to your dead granny) churches in England.

Without that kickstart from the spiritualists the BKs would not have got any publicity, as no-one else was interested in them at that time. This is all well documented in literature published by the BKs themselves. The spiritualists were the only ones sympathetic to the BKs in the early days of the London centre, which was then just a little house at a different address from the present centre in London. So the BKs owe the spiritualists big time, maybe they are paying back what they owe?
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ex-l

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Post08 Jan 2007

bansy wrote:So far, of the senior Western BKs, only Sister Denise as one of the early BKs coming into the Yagya puts a lot of effort into understanding the Indian mindset, living with them.

Its strange though because she has also gone through hell with them. I suppose there is nothing else left for her in life.

I agree, a lot of Asian folks I know find white people in varying terms cold, hard, patronising or superior. I have never really thought about this but I wonder of the Western BK attitude that they do not go and learn Hindi and Hinduism. Its like, "Hey ... God should speak English! Why does he not!" [Indeed, why does he not speak Icelandic too?] Has this changed? It seems that even in India the front is becoming more and more Westernized.

It is interesting that you bring up the Japanese because they are one of a few nations that have kicked white ass successfully and have no real need to look up to whitie. They pretty much liberated SE Asia from the colonial powers. Shame they did not make it to India because they supported kicking the Brits out. Of course, "whitie" does fits in well in India where lighter skin means higher caste.
The BKs first breakthrough in London came when they were allowed to speak to large audiences in spiritualist (Yes, that is as in talking to your dead granny) churches in England.

I think spiritualist is actually a much more accurate description of what the BKs are about. Moreso than Yoga. But I can see why they are uncomfortable about it, just as with mediumship or channelling. It is much less marketable. This is what raised my eyebrows about Lee James's advert. In my time the BKs had no connection whatsoever with spiritualists and so they must have turned their back on them.

I would be interested to here what other psychic and spiritualist sources made of the BKs.
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proy

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Post08 Jan 2007

ex-l wrote:Its strange though because she has also gone through hell with them. I suppose there is nothing else left for her in life.

I think a lot of senior Sisters are in that position. In fact I know some who were and have got out with help from friends and some that are still in. No names no pack drill again though, they want to keep private.
ex-l wrote:I think spiritualist is actually a much more accurate description of what the BKs are about. More so than Yoga. But I can see why they are uncomfortable about it, just as with mediumship or channelling. It is much less marketable. This is what raised my eyebrows about Lee James's advert. In my time the BKs had no connection whatsoever with spiritualists and so they must have turned their back on them.

Yep, I agree, but the label does not sit too well now, it is associated with the old Victorian types and would not be a good PR move or selling point.
ex-l wrote:I would be interested to hear what other psychic and spiritualist sources made of the BKs.
Me too.
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bansy

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Post08 Jan 2007

Its strange though because she has also gone through hell with them. I suppose there is nothing else left for her in life.

Actually, I think she has done well. Yes gone through the ups and downs, but now is way way above all the other Western Seniors because she no longer needs to show or admit what she has gone through.

Actually, there maybe a lot left for her but I do notice she prefers to stay away from the westerners in Mt Abu. After all she is now living there whilst the others simply just come to visit. She may have a body conscious white skin and there's nothing that can be done about that, and it probably makes her more inferior in her surroundings, otherwise I think she's nicely at home, and that's great.
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sparkal

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Post08 Jan 2007

I met L J once when he came to perform for a week.

Lee is an expressive artist, which in my opinion is the type of person who needs to be put forward. There has been an awful lot of people sitting talking at people, without the powerful vibes. Rather than that, they may as well put on something more entertaining. Artists will express more ego, and others will judge them to be arrogant, because they naturally express. Polite people have only learnt to hide their ego, but it will still be there.

If there is a lack of lightness and character in general within the BKs, then it is souls like L J who can offer something new. The arts are a powerful tool to promote spirituality, compared to someone sitting talking at people, without lifting them into another state of being because they don't have the Yoga connection to do so.

Just my opinion.
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