Food for thought for all PBKs

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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post19 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:Nobody falls or rises because of some other soul, but it is his own karma which decides the fate of things.

Then why are you always obsessed with the downfall of PBKs due to the soul of Brahma Baba whom you call Maya?
shivsena wrote:Before you blame anybody, just turn inwards and see yourself; the same thing can be said about you by BKs whom you are trying to convert to PBKs.

We are giving information about ShivBaba's practical part to the BKs, but like you we are not asking all the BKs (surrendered or non-surrendered) to leave BKWSU and join AIVV. Can you show any single post on this forum where we have asked all BKs to leave BKWSU and come to our fold?

Baba has said in the Murlis that let those who are doing Bhakti to do so. Do not force anyone to leave Bhakti. But you have only one point agenda of asking every PBK to leave ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit). If you believe in the Murlis spoken through Brahma Baba, you should not force PBKs day and night to leave ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit).

You say that the entire advanced knowledge is false, but we don't say that the entire BK knowledge is false. We are just giving them the advanced clarifications of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis that we have received from ShivBaba (through Veerendra Dev Dixit).
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post19 Sep 2008

arjun wrote: We are giving information about ShivBaba's practical part to the BKs, but like you we are not asking all the BKs (surrendered or non-surrendered) to leave BKWSU and join AIVV. Can you show any single post on this forum where we have asked all BKs to leave BKWSU and come to our fold?

Dear arjun Bhai.

Am I asking the PBKs to leave the AIVV?? Just as you are informing the BKs that basic knowledge is incomplete, I am also giving the same information to PBKs. Those who become aware about this fact, then they are free to take their own decisions. No compulsion either way.

shivsena
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suryavanshi

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post20 Sep 2008

Shivsena wrote:None of the Vanis or Murlis you have quoted mention that you have to surrender to God Shiva bodily to do Godly service.

"The meaning of the word ‘surrender’ is very big. Nothing remains mine. When someone has surrendered, then body, mind, money and everything is surrendered." (Avyakt Vani dated. 18-9-69 pg-108).
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post21 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:My duty is to wake up the surrendered PBKs by making them aware that they are in Ravan ki jail during Brahma ki raat and sooner they realise this fact, it will better for them.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

Don't forget that you too are in Ravan ki jail as all PBKs will leave Father's hand when doubts enter their minds and come back numberwise when their faith is restored. Also the surrendered PBKs are aware that Ravan Rajya is still on . It is either Ravan Rajya or Ram rajya. So it is not necessary for you to give them the wake up call.

Do you know that most of the surrendered PBK Sisters are having the fear of the final examination which will shake their faith that will result in leaving the Father's hand? So, save the energy of waking up the Sisters as you need it for yourself when doubts enter your mind and you too will leave the Father's hand.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post21 Sep 2008

pbkindiana wrote: Don't forget that you too are in Ravan ki jail as all PBKs will leave Father's hand when doubts enter their minds and come back numberwise when their faith is restored. Also the surrendered PBKs are aware that Ravan Rajya is still on. It is either Ravan Rajya or Ram rajya. So it is not necessary for you to give them the wake up call.

Dear indiana.

As you say, if PBKs are aware that it is Ravan Rajya then they should leave immediately and if they feel that it is ram-rajya then they should have no thought of leaving. If all the Sisters are aware that it is ravan-rajya, then what is preventing them from leaving the Ravan ki jail; either they are not 100% sure and so they want to stay there or they have closed all avenues of returning to lokik.

I am no longer in Ravan ki jail, only the surrendered Sisters are in Ravan ki jail as they have no free will to leave, but those who are not surrendered are free to live their life as they please.

Do you know that most of the surrendered PBK Sisters are having the fear of the final examination which will shake their faith that will result in leaving the Father's hand? So, save the energy of waking up the Sisters as you need it for yourself when doubts enter your mind and you too will leave the Father's hand.

The recognition of Father Ramshivbaba Himself and personified maya-ravan is the final examination for all PBKs and not the fear of leaving the Father's hand.

The fear of leaving the Father's hand has been instilled in the minds of PBKs by maya-ravan, as no Murli ever says that children will leave the Father's hand in the end; once children have known the Father Ramshivbaba, then where is the question of leaving the Father's hand. It is maya-ravan who is playing a game with the surrendered PBKs by saying that in the end all will leave Father's hand.

Just today i was reading a Murli 11-7-90 which says, "Baba gives a warning that you have to be very careful. Do not become a jail bird, as jail birds are here only (not in outside world or BKs). Study well to get a high post. Do not remain ignorant."

shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs.

Post23 Sep 2008

Shivsena wrote:As you say, if PBKs are aware that it is Ravan Rajya then they should leave immediately and if they feel that it is Ram-rajya then they should have no thought of leaving. If all the Sisters are aware that it is Ravan-rajya, then what is preventing them from leaving the Ravan ki jail; either they are not 100% sure and so they want to stay there or they have closed all avenues of returning to lokik.

To say that it is Ravan Rajya, it denotes that we are under the power of the five vices and not the residence we are staying. It is not necessary for the Sisters to leave when doubts haven't creep into their minds. Also if they desire to leave, then there is no one stopping them to do so. I have came across Sisters packing their belongings and leaving to their lokik homes without informing Baba. If they desire to leave, they are free to do so.
I am no longer in Ravan ki jail, only the surrendered Sisters are in Ravan ki jail as they have no free will to leave, but those who are not surrendered are free to live their life as they please.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! It is good to know that at least one of us is experiencing a 100% healthy and wealthy lifestyle.
The recognition of Father Ramshivbaba Himself and personified Maya-Ravan is the final examination for all PBKs and not the fear of leaving the Father's hand.The fear of leaving the Father's hand has been instilled in the minds of PBKs by Maya-Ravan, as no Murli ever says that children will leave the Father's hand in the end; once children have known the Father Ramshivbaba, then where is the question of leaving the Father's hand. It is Maya-Ravan who is playing a game with the surrendered PBKs by saying that in the end all will leave Father's hand.

Amrit Vela 9/4/73 -- At the beginning of the Yagya, the entire world was on one side and one single soul was on the other side.
Amrit Vela 18/10/72 -- All that happened at the beginning will repeat itself at the end.
Just today i was reading a Murli 11-7-90 which says, "Baba gives a warning that you have to be very careful. Do not become a jail bird, as jail birds are here only (not in outside world or BKs). Study well to get a high post. Do not remain ignorant."

ShivBaba is reminding us to be very careful not to be influenced by the five vices. Also I have read a Murli quote that says that the more you get closer to ShivBaba, the more maya-ravan will be closer to you too.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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arjun

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post23 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:Am I asking the PBKs to leave the AIVV??
shivsena wrote:if PBKs are aware that it is Ravan Rajya then they should leave immediately and if they feel that it is Ram-rajya then they should have no thought of leaving. If all the Sisters are aware that it is Ravan-rajya, then what is preventing them from leaving the Ravan ki jail
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post24 Sep 2008

Amrit Vela 9/4/73 -- At the beginning of the Yagya, the entire world was on one side and one single soul was on the other side.
Amrit Vela 18/10/72 -- All that happened at the beginning will repeat itself at the end.

Dear indiana.

Which soul are you talking about??? Is it the soul of Krishna or the souls of Ram and Shiva; there was no knowledge of the Ram's soul and Shiva in the beginning and the whole world was against Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani) as the sindhi world of karachi thought HE was mis-leading the kanyas into believing He was God.

The same thing is going to happen in future when the whole PBKs world wakes up to the fact that they have been taken for a ride by jhooti Krishna ki Gita, then they will gherao ''Krishna'' and not Ram or Shiva (Murli point: ''dilli ka gherao karo'') ... (''koi bhi deh-shari bhagwan nahin ho sakta'').

Can God Shiva be challenged at any time whether in the beginning or in the end? All Murli points have to be interpreted in proper perspective by logic and common sense.

Just adding to the above thought.

Kirshna (Brahma) projected himself to be God of Gita in the beginning of the Yagya and only much later (15-20 years later) the BKs realised that it is nirakar bindi Shiva who is God of Gita. Similarly in the end the same Krishna is projecting himself to be God of Gita amongst the PBKs and only later on the PBKs will wake up and realise that it is not Krishna (Brahma) but bindi-swaroop Ramshivbaba in 100% nirakari stage who is God of Gita.

Adi-so-anth.
shivsena.
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pbkindiana

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post28 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:Which soul are you talking about??? Is it the soul of Krishna or the souls of Ram and Shiva; there was no knowledge of the Ram's soul and Shiva in the beginning and the whole world was against Krishna(Lekhraj Kirpalani) as the sindhi world of karachi thought HE was mis-leading the kanyas into believing He was God.

Dear shivsena Bhai,

I am talking of the Ram soul, as none of us know what had happened in the beginning. Something had taken place as the souls of Ram, Brahma Baba, Geetamata and Vedanthi Bhen were present in the beginning of the Yagya. As it was said "that Geetamata was created by ShivBaba and Krishna was born of her", so i am referring to that Ram soul whom Father Shiva had initiated the job of creation in the beginning. I am not interested whether Brahma Baba had mis-lead the kanyas into believing that he was God because he himself dosen't understand knowledge.
The same thing is going to happen in future when the whole PBKs world wakes up to the fact that they have been taken for a ride by jhooti Krishna ki Gita, then they will gherao ''Krishna'' and not Ram or Shiva (Murli point: ''dilli ka gherao karo'') ... (''koi bhi deh-shari bhagwan nahin ho sakta'').

That's what we PBKs want, truth and nothing else. Let truth (ShivBaba) awaken us and bring us to the path of reality. As long as there is awareness that Brahma alias Krishna is inteferring in advanced knowledge, then there is no way to be taken for a ride by Krishna's soul.
Can God Shiva be challenged at any time whether in the beginning or in the end? All Murli points have to be interpreted in proper perspective by logic and common sense.

Then why is He (God Shiva) is not taking any actions to those who had deleted His sermons in the Sakar Murlis. Where is this God Shiva whom you have mentioned that He cannot be challenged at any time to which the world has not yet bow down to Him. Or is He waiting for the corporeal medium to emulate His 100% nirakari stage for actions or punishments to be delivered? I agre with you that all Murli points have to be interpreted logically and not by interpretting that Brahma Baba is Shankaracharya in one posting and Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is shankaracharya in another posting.
Similarly in the end the same Krishna is projecting himself to be God of Gita amongst the PBKs and only later on the PBKs will wake up and realise that it is not Krishna (Brahma) but bindi-swaroop Ramshivbaba in 100% nirakari stage who is God of Gita.

I presumed that a number of PBKs are aware of Krishna's intervention and also thay are aware that the sermonizer of Gita is Trimurti Shiva and never Krishna alias Brahma.

Om Shanti -- indie.
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new knowledge

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post28 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:bindi-swaroop Ramshivbaba in 100% nirakari stage who is God of Gita.

What do you mean by 'bindi'? If, also you believe God with bindi stage, what's difference between you & BKs/PBKs who also believe in 'Bindi' God? Then, why do you criticise for their belief in 'bindi' God?
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post29 Sep 2008

Dear new knowledge Bhai.

The difference between bindi and bindi swaroop is the difference between theoritical and practical swaroop of God. I do not believe in any Bindi Shiva which stays in jad Paramdham above for 4900 years and then comes to earth in 1937 to redeem the world. I believe that there is a soul on this earth which stays as incognito ShivBaba and who reveals Himself as personified God once he attains his 100% nirakari stage. (Murli point: ''iss shristi par sadaa kayaam ek ShivBaba hi hai'').

shivsena.
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new knowledge

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post29 Sep 2008

shivsena wrote:The difference between bindi & bindi swaroop is the difference between theoritical and practical swaroop of God.

Thank you. Really, I am unable to understand depth of your churning. I accept Bindi-swaroop stage of God, but for me, this 'Bimdi-swaroop stage' of God just represents the working & ideal model of manifested attributes of God when He gets revealed to us. He is 'Bindu mein Sindhu (Ocean in a drop)'. But this Bindi-swaroop model is just temporary. Actually God is much more than Bindi-swaroop stage (geometrical point-form stage).

If we try to analyse, logically & statistically, the quantitative attributes of the Absolute Truth and/or God, we will find that all measurements of anything at the level of the Absolute Truth, tend to some extreme values, just as 'infinite', 'infinitesimal', etc.

Thus, logically & geometrically, God appears to be either 'Bindi-swaroop' or 'omnipresent' (extrime levels of geometrical conditions); but He is neither Bindi-swaroop not omnipresent. Both these extreme models (bindi-swaroop & omnipresence) of the forms of God are just working & temporary models. Both have their own drawbacks.
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shivsena

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post29 Sep 2008

new knowledge wrote:Thus, logically & geometrically, God appears to be either 'Bindi-swaroop' or 'omnipresent' (extrime levels of geometrical conditions); but He is neither Bindi-swaroop not omnipresent. Both these extreme models (bindi-swaroop & omnipresence) of the forms of God are just working & temporary models. Both have their own drawbacks.

Dear new knowledge Bhai.

I fully agree with you that both are just an attempt to understand God and are temporary models until God himself comes and reveals to us his real viraat swaroop.(Murli point: "Bap khud aakar apna aur rachna ke adi-madhya-anth ka parichay detee hain").

Murli also says: ''teri gat-mat tu hi jaane aur na jaane koi". So it is just not possible for us humans to know the exact swaroop of GOD in which form HE will reveal himself in future (God's Final Form is beyond all human comprehension.). What we all are doing at present is just intellectual masturbation to know how-when and through which Chariot HE is going to be revealed and my views differ in this respect from BKs and PBKs, who proclaim that God ShivBaba has come in 1937 and in 1976.

shivsena.
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mbbhat

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post30 Sep 2008

new knowledge wrote:Thus, logically & geometrically, God appears to be either 'Bindi-swaroop' or 'omnipresent' (extrime levels of geometrical conditions); but He is neither Bindi-swaroop not omnipresent. Both these extreme models (bindi-swaroop & omnipresence) of the forms of God are just working & temporary models. Both have their own drawbacks.

Strictly speaking, bindi means infinitely small. I think soul or God are not infinitely small (because it may mean NOTHING), but they are very small. Hence name Bindu is given to soul. There is also a Murli point that says, "The space needed for 600 crore souls is just a line in the thumb (or the size of the thumb, I am not sure)".

The difference between bindi and bindi swaroop for me is:- all the souls and God are bindis (points). But state of being in that realization is called bindi swaroop. Since God never becomes body-conscious, there is no wrong to say that God is always bindiswaroop. Even when he is in body, he is bindi swaroop since he is uninfluenced. He is 100% karmaateet. Souls become karmaateet numberwise.

The extreme models (point or omnipresence) only can make us get rid of the vices. But if we consider soul as omnipresence, it becomes false, because there are more than 600 crores of souls in universe. If anything is omnipresent, then there can be only one thing. There cannot be two. So except SPACE nothing can be omnipresent. Hence if we consider soul or God as omnipresent, the effort has no meaning (eg: advaita philosophy = all is one).

When we consider ourself as a soul separate than the body, then only we can rule the body [Like driver is separate than the car. If the driver thinks car and myself same, then he cannot drive. Hence those sanyasis are called as karma sanyaasis]. Hence form of soul should be known clearly.

There is no real use in knowing the exact size of the soul. Since one cannot think that size in mind. Even though atom's size is known, one cannot think(remember) it as exactly as it is. So we should know that I am separate than the body and very small.
Even though I cannot prove that there is no drawback in bindi model, I feel it is not a drawback since we cannot understand more than that. I would like to say that it is limitation to human souls. Souls realize bindiroop only in Confluence Age and the souls are dependent on God to realize that stage (remember him).
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new knowledge

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Re: Food for thought for all PBKs

Post30 Sep 2008

mbbhat wrote:So except SPACE nothing can be omnipresent.

And except SPACE nothing can be Bindi swaroop (geometrical point-form).
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