XBK Chat (unofficial archive)

celticgyan · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 43 Location: New Zealand

When we used to get visitors to our centre in ***** (censored!) a lot of Souls had come from other spiritual teachings and always asked questions concerning so called ascended masters. Was Brahma Baba just another ascended master? Of course I pointed out that there was no such thing and that Brahma Baba was the only Soul that had become complete and that he now dwelt in the subtle regions. Anything else was just deception by vicious souls who had no body and lived in the material world until the end of the cycle - their karma being too bad to take a body. (well that 's one possibility). A sister once told me that she believed that these masters existed but that they wanted something in return and so if you followed their path (they were just channeled of course - same principle as all religions in a manner of speaking) and then stopped that the karmic conscequences were not too good.
I have and never have had any desire to follow these Souls whoever they may be and they do not seem to fit into the nice and tidy BK philosophy - any ideas?Not the sort of thing you bring up at Murli class after all.Personally I don't like the idea at all.

Om Shanti

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

A hearty welcome Celticgyan!

I am familiar with the term "ascended masters" and will share what little I know of the concept and of these Masters. I don't think you need fear much. Consider the traditional terms "angels of Light" and "angels of Darkness". Ultimately, it is the choice of the human being that determines his or her destiny. That is the essence of the story of Eden in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I will have to return to this topic later and give you some references for further reading. Right now I'm rushed. Take care.
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"Those were the days my friend ...."

gyaniwasi · Joined: 22 Feb 2004 Posts: 167

Okay, here's the first part of how I see things now. Remember, I'm only sharing my experience and point of view.

On several occasions, when teaching at the centre where I stayed, persons would ask whether the Raj Yoga Center was a Lodge. I recall two middle-aged women coming to the centre one afternoon and declaring with certitude that the Brahma Kumaris was “an Indian Lodge” because they had consulted with their Lodge Elders on the matter. On another occasion, when we used to conduct a service series for secular and spiritual organizations, one leader of an African sect came with his followers and after being introduced to the knowledge declared that Brahma was “a Light Bearer” as he himself was for his followers. He referred to himself as Elijah and his followers regarded and treated him like a king. Again, there was another brother who was a Rosicrucian and who declared that from his conversations with the senior sisters they acknowledged deeper aspects of knowledge that correlated with the Rosicrucian school of thought. At the time I had dismissed all these things lightly, perhaps because before coming to gyan I had been a member of a well established mystical school of thought but did not have the patience or sufficient interest in methods through which, by long apprenticeship, I was to have attained enlightenment. After coming to gyan I regarded all that as bhakti and settled for the immediate ecstasy of “Sahaj Raj Yoga”.

Now, after some 30 years, I realize that there is a great deal more to becoming “soul consciousness” than considering oneself a point of light and energy. Much of what we practise in Raj Yoga is actually based on mystical principles the awareness of which would give us a much stronger basis for self-realization and true inner growth. Instead, the application of the old “mantras” of “Man Mana Bhav” and “Follow Father” etc. leads us to believe in a short-cut to Paradise. Hence we might meditate for years and yet not experience solid inner growth but, rather, a veil or self-illusion which we maintain largely by blind faith.

On the other hand, if we go through the practice of learning and balancing the range of spiritual sciences and arts, applying them in our mundane daily affairs then we can become true “masters”, “mahavirs” or “mahatmas”. Every human being has that potential and in that sense every human being has within him or her a “master” waiting to be realized. The corollary of this is the awakening of “the golden sanskars” in the BK school of thought. A spiritual master, then, is one who through practical living and the application of spiritual principles becomes at one with the universal and transcendent spiritual laws; and since – as is said in Hindi – God is Vidhi, Vidhan and Vidhata (the Law, the Law Giver and the Law Keeper) one who attains a stage of living in oneness with the transcendent spiritual laws of the universe is also at one with God. That is how I understand the Christ Jesus when He said “If you see me you see the Father” and “I and the Father are One”. The Gospel of John refers to this when it declares “ In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God” and “the Word was made flesh”.

Generally, it seems, both Eastern and Western mystical schools of thought share the view that it requires many lifetimes to become a spiritual Master. As far as I understand the process of becoming a Master is also the process of salvation and again has its corollary in the BK system as attaining the “Karmateet Stage”. In the BK system this is attainable in the last birth of the Confluence Age which they call “Purshotam Sangam Yug” or the age of great effort. Christianity has a similar view when its Pauline doctrine declares that “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” Christians often use this verse (Hebrews 9:27) to refute the doctrine of incarnation and it is the contention of some mystics that had the early Church Fathers not hidden that doctrine (of reincarnation) from their congregation and declared it part of the heretical teachings of Gnostic Christianity then the Christian layman would have been able to experience the full richness of true spiritual accomplishment. Now, in retrospect, I tend to share a similar view with respect to the BK school of thought. Long years of renouncing the world and immersing oneself in meditation has not brought authentic change but has created an illusion or resulted in suppressed inner tiredness. The impression of that tiredness in old members was striking when I saw a videotape of the “meeting” in Madhuban a few years ago – and the message was, in essence, the same as I had heard when I visited in the late ‘70’s to early ‘80’s. Becoming a Master requires enlightened effort. I would not doubt that Dada Lek Raj became a spiritual Master over long years in the stage of retirement spanning his lokik and alokik life. The important questions for us are: 1) what really happened in that room in 1936 when his family reported seeing him in an high spiritual state of Samadhi and 2) what happened after he ‘left the body’ in 1969.

To explore this requires a mind open to other paradigms of thinking, paradigms that offer views of spiritual realms of existence other than those two taught in Raj Yoga, as well as grades of spiritual existence and beings other than the Avyakt realm with Brahma and Saraswatti. The Ascended Masters – as far as I am aware - are souls who have lived full and varied lives on earth and who now serve humanity from a spiritual realm. From these other points of view it is easy to understand how Brahma can be perceived as an ascended Master. This point of view is also similar to the way PBKs on this website see Brahma Baba. But perhaps this is enough for now.

Best regards,
Gyaniwasi
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"Those were the days my friend ...."