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Dear Helen...

 
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Atma



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Dear Helen...

I've started this topic in this, rather than the main forum, because it is geared towards non BK/XBK relationships. "Helen" can be anyone who gives an answer to the relationship issues / questions raised here.

Here is my question. Warning (!): it is a somewhat convoluted and involved one, but I ask it sincerely and for good reason. And now, my question:

Let us put this as a hypothetical (even though its based on a real situation). A man and a woman meet. They start dating. Things get more and more romantic and passionate. They dine, dance, go places, have fun together, travel and communicate deeply and intimately. The love making is wonderful. There is talk of marriage....or the possibility of it. However, the man is unable to commit (the reason why he can't isn't important).

They come to crossroads. She, in effect, gave him an ultimatum. As much he cares for her, he is unable to take the plunge. He cannot commit. She is disappointed but does not appear bitter....but the romance ends.

They decide and mutually agree to remain "friends". However, they say that "actions speak louder than words" and her actions - or rather inaction - after the 'transition' (from lovers to friends) leaves him disappointed. She does not keep in touch. He is the one who sends a few emails and voice messages. Their communication dwindles to almost nothing. HE was sincere when he suggested that they remain friends, as he enjoys her company. However, her inaction causes him to doubt that she meant it when she enthusiastically said "Yes, friends forever it is!".

Think you know what the question / issue is? Think again. I told you - this is a bit convoluted, so forget about all the stock answers (Move on etc).

Here is the real question: where two people had a romantic relationship which ended amicably, and where they decided and agreed to be friends, but the woman did not follow through as a friend: - does that mean that, had they gotten married, she probably would have disappointed him too? In other words, does the fact that she was only hot and heavy when the going was romantic (and there was talk of marriage) but withdrew after they agreed to be friends; is that a negative reflection on her - in the sense of being an indication that she probably would / could have been an unreliable marriage partner? As she broke her word on friendship, would she have been an unreliable wife?

I look forward to your considered opinion, but no one liners please. Think...and then write.

Over to you "Helen"
Tete



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:18 am    Post subject: Friend to be or not to be..............

Dear Friend,


Quote:
They start dating. Things get more and more romantic and passionate. They dine, dance, go places, have fun together, travel and communicate deeply and intimately. The love making is wonderful. There is talk of marriage....or the possibility of it. However, the man is unable to commit (the reason why he can't isn't important).
OOOOOK

Quote:
They come to crossroads. She, in effect, gave him an ultimatum.
This happened to me so I can impathize. I panicked and picked my sisterís birthday as a date. We had been dating for two years. Did I love him? Yes. Was it good as it was? Yes!
Quote:
As much he cares for her, he is unable to take the plunge. He cannot commit. She is disappointed but does not appear bitter....but the romance ends.


Quote:
They decide and mutually agree to remain "friends". However, they say that "actions speak louder than words" and her actions - or rather inaction - after the 'transition' (from lovers to friends) leaves him disappointed.
I would want to know if this was a 1 year relationship or more than two years.
Quote:
She does not keep in touch. He is the one who sends a few emails and voice messages. Their communication dwindles to almost nothing. HE was sincere when he suggested that they remain friends, as he enjoys her company. However, her inaction causes him to doubt that she meant it when she enthusiastically said "Yes, friends forever it is!".
Most I want to be your Friend folks mean it if they are clearly over the love thing. Until that happens I suspect it will be hard to be your friend. Unless you state clearly why you want to be a friend. If some one says to you they value you, donít tread lightly on that. Even if you canít give them what they might want at that particular time. Life is never that certain.

Quote:
Think you know what the question / issue is? Think again. I told you - this is a bit convoluted, so forget about all the stock answers (Move on etc).


Quote:
Here is the real question: where two people had a romantic relationship which ended amicably, and where they decided and agreed to be friends, but the woman did not follow through as a friend: - does that mean that, had they gotten married, she probably would have disappointed him too?
I would say it is too early to tell as she is probably wounded and heart broken to be close to you in the friend state. You need that talk about why you need that person as a friend talk.
Quote:
In other words, does the fact that she was only hot and heavy when the going was romantic (and there was talk of marriage) but withdrew after they agreed to be friends; is that a negative reflection on her - in the sense of being an indication that she probably would / could have been an unreliable marriage partner? As she broke her word on friendship, would she have been an unreliable wife?
By unreliable wife you mean, not loving you unconditionally? I only ask this as I know that often when having come from one BIG LOVE, one always seeks reassurance from the new love. In long term marriages the main thing that sustains it is the ďFriendshipĒ . Friends donít sweat the small stuff. Friends stick with you through thick and thin. Friends will laugh with you and cry with you. A friend will love you for you, not judge you and laugh with you at the dumb things you do. A friend will be OK with you not looking sexy! A friend will confide their weakest link without a worry, knowing it will be OK. In essence a friend becomes a little like a reflection of you, in that they know what you take with your coffee, they may even bring you the coffee in bed, day after day and the paper too. A friend will have seen you emotionally naked and you wonít care. They know you, all of you and they still love you. When you can tell everything to a friend you know you are home.

I donít know but I think you wanted to see the friend side of the wonderful companion, lover and traveler before setting on the final journey together. I would also say that perhaps we miss our friend, as it is always hard to know if they are a true friend if they donít stick around. Was it real? The please tell me it was real feeling!

I would also say promises never made are never broken, discovery often leads to wonders. That is why they call it Taking the Plunge. Leaping without assurances. In letting go we often find what we need.

If you dare, do tell your friend that you miss her company and see what comes next: Friendship that grows or a memory that fades.

My grandmother told me this:
Quote:
Love never told, does not exist because it was never known, never felt or embraced. Don't be ashamed to tell anyone you love them! It may change their lives and yours.


Regards,

Tete

By Hellen you don't mean the dear deceased lady? Shocked
ex-london



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Dear Helen...

Atma wrote:
However, the man is unable to commit (the reason why he can't isn't important).


I think it ******* well does matter! The entirely intergity of the man rests on the reason why and that the matter cannot be considered without it.

It is impossible to divine the paths of the two individuals without knowing their intentions, e.g. did he just want his cockles warmed* with a little bit of fun, was she consciously or unconsciously looked to be impregnated? Was their meeting at a crossroads of mutual intent and their paths not running parallel? There are powerful archetypal and deeply primal biological influences at play here.

Two things I will say ;

a) there are only three ways of treating a woman, and no one knows what they are.

b) it is against the nature of the beast for women to stick to their word in such matters. You say, " let's be friends " they hear, " you're chucked ".

Men are programmed to try and scatter their seed as wide as possible. Women are programmed to try and find and trap the best seed providers.

And where the twain shall meet 10,000 miseries, or divorce lawyers. are born.

ex-l

* and before I get my a$$ edited off again, see the definition of warm cockles here ; http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-coc2.htm
Tete



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:26 am    Post subject: Do tell...

Mr. Ex-London,

Quote:
a) there are only three ways of treating a woman, and no one knows what they are.


Well, you're a big tease...do tell what these three things are. Rolling Eyes Us women here are just waiting to hear the revelation. Idea

And do tell what made you take the BIG PLUNGE! Or did you just "FALL IN" without looking? Wink

So, there may very well be many little Ex-L we don't know about! Shocked Based on your seeding theory? Embarassed

Remember the song: Why can't we be friends?

Tete
howiemac



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 142
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Dear Helen...

Atma wrote:
where two people had a romantic relationship which ended amicably, and where they decided and agreed to be friends, but the woman did not follow through as a friend - does that mean that, had they gotten married, she probably would have disappointed him too

Tete wrote:
Most I want to be your Friend folks mean it if they are clearly over the love thing. Until that happens I suspect it will be hard to be your friend

I agree with Tete in that it is not at all easy to be "just friends" with someone you are in love with - all interaction constantly reminds you of your unfulfilled desire - in the situation described it is only natural for the woman to withdraw. I don't think you can draw any conclusion from that as to whether a romantic relationship would have worked or not. Much easier to be friends after the romance has cooled off naturally (eg once you have got married Wink)...

Ex-London wrote:

there are only three ways of treating a woman, and no one knows what they are
Laughing i certainly havn't a clue..

Ex-London wrote:

it is against the nature of the beast for women to stick to their word in such matters. You say, " let's be friends " they hear, " you're chucked ".

i agree - also it is against nature for the woman to chase up the man subsequently - the female is naturally passive and the male active - so the man should expect to have to do the running... (unless we have a butch woman and a "sensitive" guy.... Smile)
Atma



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject:

Tete and XL, Good to see you two working along Very Happy Howie, thanks for your input too.

Tete, I spoke to the individual concerned and he said that the relationship was romantic for one year. Yes, I guess its difficult for a woman to be a friend after having given her heart (and body) to another. Hurt feelings, disappointment, pride and even some anger may be involved. Hell hath no fury...

Anyway, hope springs eternal. It would be good to hear more perspectives. Any other 'Helens' out there? If so, tickle the keyboard and let us know your thoughts on this. By the way, this "Dear Helen" thread is open to all who may have personal relationship issues which they would like advice / opinions on.
Sanvean



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject:

I have few friends that were boyfriends in the past. It was hard to transform the feeling and to have a friendship. Some years, efforts, talks and a kind of healing.

Itīs very hard to be friends after broke up. Not just because the desappointment, but if you love the person yet and you keep a friendship with the person, itīs difficult to be open for other person. So, the friendship with an ex ties. But I think it is possible to be friends again after some time...

Dears, sorry for bad bad english Laughing
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bluewing



Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:51 pm    Post subject: relationships!!

Hi, everybody !!

I love this tread, as a Libra (like Tete and Sanvean), relationships are soooo important to us !! and guess what, my middle name is Helen !! Razz I agree w/ those who said: it is hard to be friends after an intimate relationship, we (women), give our bodies and souls and to heal that unconditional or conditional love (of giving) it takes a lot of time !! Now this thing about commitment, I ask the guys now: what is the fear of a commitment? and there is only a way to treat a woman: with respect. love and honesty... Wink

Bluewing
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